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post #17341 of 21664
Quote:
Originally Posted by gn77b View Post

a few clarifications.
I wasn't talking about ICE-Power implementations. well, why not... Nu-Force received a few objective bad reviews. "objective" meaning that measurements revealed definite problems. I come from the camp that thinks that an amp which measures bad can't sound good, while a good measuring amp doesn't necessarily sound good. the said review is out there but I couldn't find it.
I also remember a Stereophile review of a Nu-Force CD player which had terrible jitter problems. Nu-Force fixed it, but still.
class D is such a different design exercise because it involves large, high frequency currents. a PCB trace can turn into a transmitter antenna any time if the designer doesn't know what he's doing. these problems simply don't exist with linear amps, hence my distrusts in some manufacturers.
it's important to note that I haven't listened to the said amp myself but there's an aura smelling of BS that surrounds this company. I wouldn't be surprised if it actually sounded good but I don't want to find that what I'm enjoying is actually noise.
more and more manufacturers jump the class-D ship. there are many to choose from and there are many important design differences, I wouldn't generalize. you'd be surprised that there's much disagreement among the different class-D designers.
that's not saying that given a limitless budged I'd go for class D. it IS a compromise. although I own it and use a class D amp and find the whole idea of PWM amplification very cool - they are small, don't require large heatsinks, an implementation using a switching supply can be very small (less money spent on cases, lower shipping costs because of size and weight). but yes, it still is a compromise. I'd take a good class A amp any day.
and there has been some definite progress in the last few years, there's the Hypex NCORE that has barely measurable distortion and I've read about people selling their Pass Labs and Accuphase amps to replace them with NCOREs. Jeff Rowland and Paul McGowan (of PS Audio) were impressed by its performance.
Theta already adopted it for use in one of its amps, there's the Mola-Mola (NCORE-based) etc. lot of stuff worth listening.

Ha; isn't that ironic (and I believe I've actually used it properly, in this case). I am this close to buying a NuForce DDA-100...to try against my Rega Brio-R, in the newly-formed, little Office system.

Not much pub on it yet, as it is brand spanking new; but 6moons is keen on it. However, I just recently discovered, that EE-types think of 6M as an even bigger enemy than Stereophile! eek.gif
post #17342 of 21664
it's not a matter of being an EE or not. designing for subjective good sound is one thing, just making mistakes is another.
I remember that they used the crappiest generic SMPS available.

found the review: http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1828/nuforce-reference-8-amplifier/
post #17343 of 21664
Quote:
Originally Posted by gn77b View Post

it's not a matter of being an EE or not. designing for subjective good sound is one thing, just making mistakes is another.
I remember that they used the crappiest generic SMPS available.
found the review: http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1828/nuforce-reference-8-amplifier/

Hey, that's a nice article gn77b. Obviously parts of it I didn't fully grasp...but I found it to not be so overly technical, that your average smart cookie couldn't at least infer from it.

I do notice it's publication date is 2006. I mention that with interest, because my own hope is this; don't you think it's possible, class-D has come a long way since then? My own prejudices stem from a cheap model, from also around the same time-period (the aforementioned PSA A-100). My continued curiosity, stems from trying something more substantial and current (not the NF DDA-100...that's just for the little Office rig, lol).
post #17344 of 21664
I do think class D progressed a lot meanwhile.

all this being said, it's important to remember that I did not listen to that amp, or to more recent Nu-Force ones.
post #17345 of 21664
Quote:
Originally Posted by gn77b View Post

I do think class D progressed a lot meanwhile.
all this being said, it's important to remember that I did not listen to that amp, or to more recent Nu-Force ones.

Noted. As I said...it's all just info. You put it in the blender, and find your own way.

For all we know, an article or review like that...helps keep manufactures honest. If I ran NuForce, and someone brought a piece like that to my attention (and let me tell ya...they had damn well better); I'd be up my EEs as*. AFAIC, NF might the better for it.
post #17346 of 21664
Speaking of ICE implementations, I heard the Peachtree Grand amp at RMAF. This is a 450 Wpc ICE integrated amp that sells for $4500.00; 450 Wpc into 8 ohms, over 900 into 4 ohms.

They are driving of all things, the huge TAD R-1 reference floor standing speakers, $80,000 per pair and it sounded astonishingly good. Very, very natural and very musical, with incredible transparency, imaging, detail, and spaciousness.

This pairing, BTW, was suggested and arranged for by none other than Andrew Jones, the head speaker designer for TAD.
post #17347 of 21664
it is my personal impression that some people have a personal agenda against class D amps. I can't find any other explanation for the energy they put into telling people over and over that they shouldn't like them.
many times they are compared to linear amps many times their price, anything to put them in a negative light.

for instance, if some try a neutral-sounding amp in an otherwise cold-sounding system and the result is cold, they conclude that said amp is not their cup of tea. if they try a neutral sounding class D amp, they go on an all out campaign against class D. the way they are judged by some people reeks of double standard.

for instance, I recall some discussion I once read on an online forum. the argument of low slew rate of class D amps was brought. trouble is that I also recall Nelson Pass of Pass Labs explicitly writing that lightining-fast SR is of no use if one actually listens to real music, not square waves: very large slew rates (square-wave like) are not to be found in music. and this is confirmed by measurements, look at the Stereophile reviews of the Pass Labs amps and preamps, some are far from excelling WRT slew-rate.

and there's the argument of them being Digital and (everyone knows that, right?), digital is baaad. they are not digital.

and I repeat, I DO think D-amps ARE a compromise and the price of some implementations is illogical. for instance, the Theta (which is still delayed for some reason) and Mola-Mola go up to $10.000/pair. in all honesty, if I were to spend that much on an amp, I'd take, say, an Ayre any day. it's class A, it doesn't rely on heavy negative feedback and it measurements are almost textbook.

just my opinion.
post #17348 of 21664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post

Speaking of ICE implementations, I heard the Peachtree Grand amp at RMAF. This is a 450 Wpc ICE integrated amp that sells for $4500.00; 450 Wpc into 8 ohms, over 900 into 4 ohms.
They are driving of all things, the huge TAD R-1 reference floor standing speakers, $80,000 per pair and it sounded astonishingly good. Very, very natural and very musical, with incredible transparency, imaging, detail, and spaciousness.
This pairing, BTW, was suggested and arranged for by none other than Andrew Jones, the head speaker designer for TAD.

Great comment PC. I'm not going to pat myself on the back or anything...because it's hardly like I was out on a limb; but years back...when I had my Decco2, as DAC and pre-amp...I was really active in the Peachtree Audio thread (go figure, right). David Soloman was a regular participant at the time, and I arrogantly told him...that in my mind, they were definitely on the right track; that their approach to embracing digital, was starting to take hold with "audiophiles". However, if they wanted to get past the point where they were mostly a hit with casual enthusiasts, and the iWhatever set...they needed to beef up the power. My thinking was based on my own experience: I found the Decco2 to be a decent DAC, and I really liked the idea (because they weren't as prevalent back then) of a DAC mated directly to a Pre-Amp. But I felt like I was "over-paying" for the Decco2, because the amp section was wayyy too paltry to ever be a stand-alone, all-in-one for my tastes (50-60wpc, IIRC...and that was into 6ohms). My thinking...if I had my druthers: either lose the paltry amp, and just make an outstanding DAC into Pre unit...or beef the amp power up (knowing their concern with size, and staying all-in-one, I suggested class-D as a natural choice). I believe, they have now done both...with the NovaPre and Grand Pre, and Grand Integrated. wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by gn77b View Post

it is my personal impression that some people have a personal agenda against class D amps. I can't find any other explanation for the energy they put into telling people over and over that they shouldn't like them.
many times they are compared to linear amps many times their price, anything to put them in a negative light.
for instance, if some try a neutral-sounding amp in an otherwise cold-sounding system and the result is cold, they conclude that said amp is not their cup of tea. if they try a neutral sounding class D amp, they go on an all out campaign against class D. the way they are judged by some people reeks of double standard.
for instance, I recall some discussion I once read on an online forum. the argument of low slew rate of class D amps was brought. trouble is that I also recall Nelson Pass of Pass Labs explicitly writing that lightining-fast SR is of no use if one actually listens to real music, not square waves: very large slew rates (square-wave like) are not to be found in music. and this is confirmed by measurements, look at the Stereophile reviews of the Pass Labs amps and preamps, some are far from excelling WRT slew-rate.
and there's the argument of them being Digital and (everyone knows that, right?), digital is baaad. they are not digital.
and I repeat, I DO think D-amps ARE a compromise and the price of some implementations is illogical. for instance, the Theta (which is still delayed for some reason) and Mola-Mola go up to $10.000/pair. in all honesty, if I were to spend that much on an amp, I'd take, say, an Ayre any day. it's class A, it doesn't rely on heavy negative feedback and it measurements are almost textbook.
just my opinion.

^^^ I'm starting to really like this guy, lol. I happen to agree completely gn77b; class-D definitely has a prejudice against it, IMO. We call it a "knock", right; as in the prevalent thinking. As in "the knock against class-D, is it is thin and bright-sounding...and I can't say I disagree". Well, of course...if its reputation precedes it, and you come in thinking that way; you're more likely to hear it.

But you've hit it right on the head: if it's an amp we want to like, we say "clean" or "neutral". Sure, that still might not be your taste (especially if you prefer cozy-as-kittens warm, like Stephen and Dean...lol tongue.gif); but "clean" or "neutral" are hardly vitriolic. If you don't want to like it..."clean" or "neutral", becomes "bright" or "harsh". As for this "psychological" prejudice against class-D; well, it exists in all walks of audiophilia, yes? Of course, my contention is EVERYTHING is "psychological", when you get right down to it; why should this hobby be exempt? For those of you who miss my long-as* ramblings...I just wrote, practically a whole manifesto on the subject; at my CA blog. biggrin.gif

As for the price of class-D; unfortunate reality of the biz, I'm afraid. Things are not priced on manufacturing costs; but rather what said manufacture can get the market to bear. That's where all this snake-oil business, comes into play. How do you justify the huge cost disparity, between relatively uncomplicated class-D designs? Hype, and Hyperbole. Hey, I'm not immune; I know NOTHING about Mola-Mola...except that they're supposed to be the next, hot thing...using the next, hot Hypex NCore module. The whole thing is kinda shrouded in secrecy (which of course, adds to the caché)...and there's been huge anticipation to market. I was curious; but at $10k for the pair, my curiosity ceases. Definitely feels like a law-of-diminishing-returns deal...when Wyred4Sound offers 250/550 mono-blocks for $1800.
post #17349 of 21664
let me tell you something about the psychological prejudice thing.

I have this friend who's a music lover. he'd like to be an audiophile but doesn't really afford it so he's welcome whenever he wants to listen to my system. I frankly believe that my system is far from high-end, maybe half way between entry-level and really audiophile. that's partially because of source, partially because of amp and partially because the lack of room treatment (it's a living room). obviously, the Dyns can't be at fault biggrin.gif

to get back at the subject, the more I describe to my friend the intricacies of the sound, as I perceive it, the more he seems to be influenced by it. for instance, I once told him that maybe getting the speakers further from the back wall would help sound stage a bit. I wasn't very surprised when he told me "you're right, all sound seems to be coming from the back wall". I didn't respond but he was 100% wrong. what I meant was that moving the speakers would maybe help depth layering, not that there isn't any sound stage depth, because there is.

the more time I spend with this hobby, the more I am convinced that much has to do with psychological bias.
post #17350 of 21664
Quote:
Originally Posted by gn77b View Post

let me tell you something about the psychological prejudice thing.
I have this friend who's a music lover. he'd like to be an audiophile but doesn't really afford it so he's welcome whenever he wants to listen to my system. I frankly believe that my system is far from high-end, maybe half way between entry-level and really audiophile. that's partially because of source, partially because of amp and partially because the lack of room treatment (it's a living room). obviously, the Dyns can't be at fault biggrin.gif
to get back at the subject, the more I describe to my friend the intricacies of the sound, as I perceive it, the more he seems to be influenced by it. for instance, I once told him that maybe getting the speakers further from the back wall would help sound stage a bit. I wasn't very surprised when he told me "you're right, all sound seems to be coming from the back wall". I didn't respond but he was 100% wrong. what I meant was that moving the speakers would maybe help depth layering, not that there isn't any sound stage depth, because there is.
the more time I spend with this hobby, the more I am convinced that much has to do with psychological bias.

^^^ Well, of course it is. As I said...when "opponents" say there is prejudice and bias in audio, I find it to be silly. Why single this hobby, or walk of life out? There is prejudice and bias in media, politics; food, wine, automobiles, photography...uh, life. The key...and I'll quote myself here wink.gif (again, from aforementioned, most-recent, long-as* blog entry): the funny...and enlightening thing is; I've found, that once you stop fighting the biases, and start embracing them. That is, acknowledging they exist, understanding them for what they are...and keep them from being unevenly applied to this piece or that; you actually level the playing field again. Good becomes good, no matter what the cost or reputation...

That's just my .03 on the subject.
post #17351 of 21664
That's very true. My friends who are inexperienced listeners (I'm around 25, so you can figure out the age of most of my friends) seem to understand that what they hear from my system is good, but they don't quite seem to get what resolution and imaging is. As long as I know that what I have is good and I am able to truly enjoy listening to it, I'm happy. I just hope to be able to share the love smile.gif It's always satisfying to see a friend sit back with their eyes closed while enjoying music at a higher potential than what they have heard before.

Also a quick question while I'm posting. Have any of you had Dynaudios running off the Creek Evolution 2 integrated amp? I'm looking to upgrade from what I have now, and was wondering if anyone has used this amp with their speakers. Hopefully you'll be ok with me PMing you for your opinions and the such. Thanks for the input.
post #17352 of 21664
Quote:
Originally Posted by amatuerholic View Post

That's very true. My friends who are inexperienced listeners (I'm around 25, so you can figure out the age of most of my friends) seem to understand that what they hear from my system is good, but they don't quite seem to get what resolution and imaging is. As long as I know that what I have is good and I am able to truly enjoy listening to it, I'm happy. I just hope to be able to share the love smile.gif It's always satisfying to see a friend sit back with their eyes closed while enjoying music at a higher potential than what they have heard before.
Also a quick question while I'm posting. Have any of you had Dynaudios running off the Creek Evolution 2 integrated amp? I'm looking to upgrade from what I have now, and was wondering if anyone has used this amp with their speakers. Hopefully you'll be ok with me PMing you for your opinions and the such. Thanks for the input.

Wait and get the new Peachtree Nova125...it will be worth it.

Or, save your pennies and look for a used Conrad-Johnson CA200...
post #17353 of 21664
Dear friends,

do you think that Xindak a600e 160W@8Ohm (300W@4Ohm) will fit Dynaudio confidence c4? It is going to be listened from low to moderate volume level.

Thanks a lot!

Regards,
zeby
post #17354 of 21664
Quote:
Originally Posted by amatuerholic View Post

That's very true. My friends who are inexperienced listeners (I'm around 25, so you can figure out the age of most of my friends) seem to understand that what they hear from my system is good, but they don't quite seem to get what resolution and imaging is.
exactly!
this stands mostly for spatial perception. first-time listeners seem to have trouble understanding how is the sound they are listening different from the typical boom-box vagueness. another friend of mine who has musical education and plays piano once listened to my system and seemed confused by the sound, as if he needed time to actually "get it".
post #17355 of 21664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post

Wait and get the new Peachtree Nova125...it will be worth it.
Or, save your pennies and look for a used Conrad-Johnson CA200...

PC, he's 25! If he jumps right to a CA200...what's he going to fidget with for the next 20 years. wink.gif
post #17356 of 21664
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeby View Post

Dear friends,
do you think that Xindak a600e 160W@8Ohm (300W@4Ohm) will fit Dynaudio confidence c4? It is going to be listened from low to moderate volume level.
Thanks a lot!
Regards,
zeby

Zeby, I suspect you will not get a ringing endorsement of that unit here. Not because it's not a fine or adequate amp; more so just because, I don't think anyone is very familiar with it...in general, Chinese gear can have a mixed rep...and it's just in the audiophile's nature, to recommend that which he knows.

Especially when you're talking about a speaker, as revered as the C4 is in these parts; you'll likely hear some other quality brands suggested to drive them. Good luck.
post #17357 of 21664
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

PC, he's 25! If he jumps right to a CA200...what's he going to fidget with for the next 20 years. wink.gif

Haha right on. I was looking to do the whole Emotiva XPA-2 and USP-1 thing, but if I spend that money on that amplification right now, I won't have anywhere to really go for the next 15 years! Starting smaller for ~$500, and then upgrading 8 years from now seems like more fun to me. Plus, in 8 years, hopefully I'll be along far enough that I can get something really nice, as long as my wife is cool with it smile.gif
post #17358 of 21664
Quote:
Originally Posted by amatuerholic View Post

Haha right on. I was looking to do the whole Emotiva XPA-2 and USP-1 thing, but if I spend that money on that amplification right now, I won't have anywhere to really go for the next 15 years! Starting smaller for ~$500, and then upgrading 8 years from now seems like more fun to me. Plus, in 8 years, hopefully I'll be along far enough that I can get something really nice, as long as my wife is cool with it smile.gif

Ah, young audiophile; sooo much to learn. wink.gif

A) Emotiva separates might seem like the end-all/be-all to you now; but trust us...there are miles (and miles, and miles) to go beyond that. B) Upgrade every 8 years? You'd be closer to say every 8 months, lol. C) You don't ever tell your wife, what gear really costs! eek.gif Even if you find a good one, like mine...that doesn't really care; you don't tempt fate (just like she probably shaves a few bucks off what those shoes, or that clutch cost her).

BTW. young one; did you ever say which Dyns you had?
post #17359 of 21664
I thought I had, but I guess not. Currently I have Focus 140s, which I'm really happy to be using for the next 10 years or so. I recently upgraded from the original PSB Alphas, which were great little speakers in their own right, but of course what I have now is better (in the sense of accuracy, imaging, depth, etc. However, the Alphas did sound more "exciting".)

The amplifier I have is the Onkyo TX-8255 stereo receiver, which is definitely adequate for my current needs, and I am running that out through a HSU VTF-MKII, and then from there to the Dyns. It's certainly a great setup for the price I paid for everything, and I really can't complain. I'm always looking around to see if there are any great deals to be had, but also am in no rush to upgrade. There are more important things for me to be spending money on smile.gif My wife understands that $2,000/pair speakers are reasonable, and she's ok with me doing whatever on the upgrade path as long as we're not sacrificing anything that's necessary. Overall, I'm a very happy guy biggrin.gif

But there is this Music Hall A25.2 that I want to buy... $300 is more than I want to spend for an impulse-buy though, haha.
Edited by amatuerholic - 10/18/12 at 7:43am
post #17360 of 21664
Quote:
Originally Posted by amatuerholic View Post

I thought I had, but I guess not. Currently I have Focus 140s...

That's exactly how I started out, Grasshopper. Then came Contour S1.4s, Special 25s, and now C1 Sigs (all in a lot less than 8 years). Perhaps a similar path awaits you? wink.gif

Quote:
But there is this Music Hall A25.2 that I want to buy... $300 is more than I want to spend for an impulse-buy though, haha.

Probably a bit more ballsy. What's the little woman say? tongue.gif
post #17361 of 21664
Quote:
Originally Posted by amatuerholic View Post

That's very true. My friends who are inexperienced listeners (I'm around 25, so you can figure out the age of most of my friends) seem to understand that what they hear from my system is good, but they don't quite seem to get what resolution and imaging is. As long as I know that what I have is good and I am able to truly enjoy listening to it, I'm happy. I just hope to be able to share the love smile.gif It's always satisfying to see a friend sit back with their eyes closed while enjoying music at a higher potential than what they have heard before.
Also a quick question while I'm posting. Have any of you had Dynaudios running off the Creek Evolution 2 integrated amp? I'm looking to upgrade from what I have now, and was wondering if anyone has used this amp with their speakers. Hopefully you'll be ok with me PMing you for your opinions and the such. Thanks for the input.

What are you hoping to achieve?
post #17362 of 21664
I'm just looking for change. The biggest thing is curiosity. I've heard Carver amplification, Yamaha, Onkyo, H/K, and I'm just looking to expand what I've heard. It's kinda fun to explore a bit and see what's out there. Of course I want good sound, but changing things here and there just to see what's available would be something I would enjoy. There are many mistakes to be made before the best can be achieved.

CDLehner, my grail speakers at this time are Confidence C2 MKIIs, hopefully something better will be out by the time i'm looking to buy, but that's the end goal. It'll be good to make it a journey instead of just the one stop to the end, in my mind at least that is the case. And my wife's totally fine with things as long as it doesn't have any negative effects on our finances smile.gif I'm a lucky guy, I know!
post #17363 of 21664
Quote:
Originally Posted by amatuerholic View Post

CDLehner, my grail speakers at this time are Confidence C2 MKIIs...

You and me both brother; I'm just a little bit closer than you. wink.gif
post #17364 of 21664
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

PC, he's 25! If he jumps right to a CA200...what's he going to fidget with for the next 20 years. wink.gif

As a fellow 25 year old with C2s and an octave integrated, I now find myself at this point. I guess I just have to listen to music now biggrin.gif
post #17365 of 21664
Quote:
Originally Posted by amatuerholic View Post

I'm just looking for change. The biggest thing is curiosity. I've heard Carver amplification, Yamaha, Onkyo, H/K, and I'm just looking to expand what I've heard. It's kinda fun to explore a bit and see what's out there. Of course I want good sound, but changing things here and there just to see what's available would be something I would enjoy. There are many mistakes to be made before the best can be achieved.
CDLehner, my grail speakers at this time are Confidence C2 MKIIs, hopefully something better will be out by the time i'm looking to buy, but that's the end goal. It'll be good to make it a journey instead of just the one stop to the end, in my mind at least that is the case. And my wife's totally fine with things as long as it doesn't have any negative effects on our finances smile.gif I'm a lucky guy, I know!
Consider a tube integrated too. IMO tubes have a unique sound that very few people dislike. But there are cons regarding tubes. Lots of heat - tubes won't usually last as long as transistors. But when tube rolling you can get a lot of different sound characteristics just by swapping tubes. Also vintage (out of production) tubes can be very expensive - but less than the cost of a different amp/pre/integrated (and lighter too biggrin.gif).

As far as the C2's (or any floorstander) make sure you have the right room for them to sound their best. Thanks to Tyler I was able to do an in-home demo of the C2's (to replace my C1's) and for the first couple of days I just loved them. Then I noticed that in my room (26.5' X 12 speakers on the 26 1/2' wall) they gave me a vertical soundstage that I was starting to dislike (a vertical wall of sound). So after 6 days I put the C1's back and much preferred the soundstage. You are young and take your time. The worst thing that can happen is you buy something and wish you kept what you had. wink.gif
post #17366 of 21664
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

PC, he's 25! If he jumps right to a CA200...what's he going to fidget with for the next 20 years. wink.gif
You got that right. With all my tubes - (for the Octave - and at 58 years) I hope I have 20 more years to fidget with them all biggrin.gifwink.gif
Edited by OctaDyn_Dude - 10/18/12 at 5:18pm
post #17367 of 21664
Oh and Puma Cat, thanks for the earlier suggestion. I'll definitely give them a look later on in the upgrade-chain. Thanks the the ideas!
post #17368 of 21664
Sad day in the CD household. You tell me which is worse: the empty Listening Room...or the image of all my gear, taking up short-term residence in the Guest Bedroom (it's almost as if I'm standing the C1s in a corner frown.gif)

DYNPIC1.jpgDYNPIC2.jpg

Finally getting some much-needed, long-overdue work done on this room. Not sure how it'll come back after completion; I'm contemplating more of a Den-first, Listening Room second...rather than it's current configuration, which is kinda the other way around. I'm just starting to feel like the main rig...McCormack DNA-225 driving the C1s...is really just too BIG, for this room (it's really a 4th Bedroom, so it weighs-in at ~13x11). So I might put the newly formed...smaller, Office system in this room when it's done; some cozy furnishings, first and foremost...with the Harbeths tucked-away nicely.

So where's that leave the main system? Well...I've had a 18x12, dedicated HT space; that has been dormant for quite some time. Like many v1s, I didn't do it right...and the missus and I found it increasingly bothersome to use. I've wanted to re-work it for some time now; and v2 will see it be more of a multi-purpose space...housing the main rig. 18x12 should be the perfect size for my C1s, and really give them some room to breathe/shine. biggrin.gif

In the meantime, here's my only source of musical entertainment. J/K; I still have this little number in a make-shift (for now) Office. So don't cry for me Argentina; the Harbeths...in their near-field duty...are glorious. wink.gif

DYNPIC3.jpgDYNPIC4.jpg

Hopefully it's all 2 steps back, to take 3 forward!
Edited by CDLehner - 10/20/12 at 6:43pm
post #17369 of 21664
Or 1 step back and 3 forward. Make sure to let us know how things turn out! In a sense, I look forward to having to move and pack up my speakers so I can bring them out in a better environment. Good luck with the transition!
post #17370 of 21664
well Gents.

Looks like my love affair with the Excite X16s is over. They have been a great speaker for the past 2 yrs but Im looking forward to the higher resolution, larger and deeper soundstage and improved bass of the Focus 160s, the 5i will have to work a little harder now.
Edited by callas01 - 10/21/12 at 2:36pm
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