Dynaudio Owner's Thread - Page 607

Originally Posted by prolle 

budget of $2000 max, thanks

Originally Posted by JeffNebraska 

Could this not have resulted from simply asking the 200c to play a 25hz signal too loudly?

Originally Posted by motobonsai 

I am intrigued by this empirical synchro-mesh reclocker. Does this help a lot for Apple TV and squeezebox? I have and love both.

Originally Posted by zamboniman 

Have you checked the speaker wire polarity? Sounds silly but start simple. Easy way to check unhook one speaker. Does it sound better,? Now do the other one. If only bad when both playing flip polarity on one of them.

Originally Posted by callas01 

For Naim the nait 5i like I have is $1650 USD list, I really like the unit it has power and bass drive plus very good musical flow.

Originally Posted by prolle 

budget of $2000 max, thanks

Originally Posted by prolle 

Ok so it's between the 5i, XS, and Unilite.
I understand that the 5i and XS are both just integrated amps, is the XS worth the extra $$?
Then, the XS and Unilite are similarly priced - is it not a "no brainer" to go with the Unilite as it offers built in DAC / CD player etc?
Does the XS sound that much bettter?
Thanks

Originally Posted by CDLehner 

Guys, I'm going to have to limit my comments on this situation...because to be honest, I'm too close and distraught over it. No one wants to hear, that a buyer...who purchased their $8500, world-class speakers...thinks they sound like "a stock, cheap car stereo".
The speakers were certainly well broken-in. This pair was broken-in...new, out-of-the-box...by Dynaudio for CES; and used by Clearaudio at their booth (where I'm going to assume, no one thought it sounded like stock, cheap car-audio; see...too close to it, lol). Then...they were played by me, regularly, for around the 8 months or so I owned them. I don't track listening hours (and never understood how any of you do), but I should think these are easily past any break-in thresholds.
Now...they did sit "cold" for quite some time (a month or better?), before shipping (and of course, went through a coast-to-coast journey). Perhaps they're going through a mini re-break-in; where they went from sounding good to bad? (though I'm not sure how much I buy into that theory...but there's the info, fwiw).
The tricky part here...and Khin, I ask rhetorically and really more for the benefit of the group; because as I said...while I'm willing to "help" with info, I'm going to have to distance myself from this a bit. I don't understand why they didn't sound like "a stock, cheap car stereo" out of the box? I mean, surely...if I were waiting on world-class, $8500 speakers; if anything, my expectations would be most high on first play. I might be expecting pure honey to come pouring from the drivers, and if it didn't; well...I could see a let-down at first. But it seems as if you're saying they sounded great to you at first...but have "stepped-back" somehow? I'm at a loss.
My first thought would be a cross-over or driver must be damaged (does one speaker sound "better" than the other?); but again...wouldn't you have heard that on the first, few sessions? I'd love to think that this is simply mini re-break-in; that it's a temporary set-back, and all will sound glorious to you again with a few more hours time. I'd also tend to agree with jaxwired, that it's more likely a synergy problem; though I just can't see Pass having an issue (then again, 30 watts is pretty paltry with a speaker like this; were your 1008BEs simply much more sensitive?).
I'd also love to be able to say "ah; just change a cable or two"; but again...I'm not sure a cable here or there, magically takes you from "a stock, cheap car stereo", to not. Maybe new friends? J/K (I really am too close to comment on this, lol). I'll be watching, of course; but please don't take my lack of comments moving forward, to be lack of concern.

Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude 

What you are describing sounds like they are NOT broken in yet.. I would doubt the cables too. The Pass XA30.5 should be adequate power. Again with my original C1's between 100 ans 150 hrs they sounded horrible. At 250 hrs they started to sound very good but it wasn't until I hit 350 - 400 hrs did they start to sound great again. When they sounded bad the bass dropped out - the mids got very 'honky' sounding and the highs seemed to have disappeared. With the Sig's I swapped electronics 3 times during the break in (450 hrs) before putting the Octave and Meridian back in. Had my Yamaha CDX1030 with a Bryston 3BSST and some adcom pre (pretty lame combo). So I can't say if the break in time was different. Also being impatient I ran the C1's and Sig's 7/24 for 450 hrs. Also my system is on twice a day for usually 2 hrs then when I get home 3 - 5 hrs. Weekends 8 - 10 hrs a day. So Khin give them at least 50 or better 100 hrs more. Per Tyler and Mick the C1's have the hardest time breaking in. Not sure but maybe the time in the turtle express shipment they reverted back to new sounding
CD you mentioned they were broken in and was wondering exactly how many hrs you had on them?

Originally Posted by weird 23 

Why don't you post your ARC frequency response charts? I'd start looking at your in room response before spending anymore money, especially on cables.

Originally Posted by motobonsai 

I am intrigued by this empirical synchro-mesh reclocker. Does this help a lot for Apple TV and squeezebox? I have and love both.

Originally Posted by gn77b 

Empirical Audio is the name of the brand who makes the reclocker and I can't see how it can improve anything but the D/A conversion.
will all due respect, I am convinced that anyone not noticing wrong polarity in a matter of seconds should really consider moving on to other hobbies.
my experience with my Confidence 3's is that an anemic amp can make them sound bright, forward with no real bass and zero soundstage/imaging. I will go out on a limb and say that if a renowned world-class speaker seems to sound like crap and the cables are considered the likely offenders, the snake oil industry has won, period.

Originally Posted by kzhtoo 

Thanks for the help. I guess the entire semiconductor industry came up with the terms such as "jitter", "slew rate", "RC time constant", "PSRR" just to screw with us. We're doomed. At least I am.

Originally Posted by kzhtoo 

CD, understood. Relax. It has nothing to do with the speakers coming from you...if you notice, I didn't say "C1s sound like cheap speakers", but the system as a whole sounds bright/grainy.

Originally Posted by callas01 

KZhtoo
I think ur right it's a matter of synergy between components and speakers

Originally Posted by RaceTripper 

Then I would strongly consider CD's NAIT XS. They run around $2700 retail, and you can save roughly $1K on the used market. You can also upgrade one with an external PSU and /or amp. If you want new, then the NAIT 5i at around $1800 MSRP is an excellent choice as well.

Originally Posted by gn77b 

will all due respect, I am convinced that anyone not noticing wrong polarity in a matter of seconds should really consider moving on to other hobbies.

Originally Posted by CDLehner 

Prolle, obviously I have a dog in this fight...so you can take this with a grain of salt if you like. That being said, I'm not such a scumbag that I would lie...just to move a piece of gear, that's going to sell anyway. These guys will tell you...in private if you like; I've bought and sold plenty of stuff, and have the abundant and perfect feedback to prove it.
So...with that disclaimer out of the way, let me give you my honest take. Callas might disagree...though he's said the XS does have "better" circuitry...but when I was trying to decide between the 5i (i or i-2), the Naim guys that I sought-out, ALL agreed the XS(-2) was worth the extra $$$ (if you have them of course). Now, you can take that with a grain of salt too; because most fan(atics) of a brand, will always lead you to higher ground; present company NOT excluded.
Second, as I think I stated recently...as a long-time, all-digital, one-source guy; the DAC is of paramount importance in my chain (as I always like to say...it is my source). Therefore, I'm not a fan of the "built-in". The DAC in the Naim units is probably quite good; but there's really no way to tell, is there; no way to sort of measure or audition it on its own? The only way to hear it...is to have it forever and always, tied to the Naim pre-amp. What if in 2 years, they completely f*cking revolutionize DACs, lol. It's emerging technology, so not nearly as far-fetched as it might seem. Certainly, strides are happening fast and furiously; and I just wouldn't want to be "locked-in", to even what is a very good-sounding DAC right now. Of course, YMMV.
Lastly, I will say this...again, with all candor and honesty: the XS-2 is a unit, that new would be well out of your budget. Sure, ~$700 over doesn't sound like much...especially when you're talking 4-figures; but it does represent a 35% overage. That's no small amount. This XS-2 is "as new"; purchased new in 9/2012, and barely used...given the circumstances (first owner immediately upgraded to Naim separates, and I simply auditioned it against a much more expensive contender). Hell...it might even need some break-in, lol.
I think this would give you a unit you couldn't otherwise afford, and is the absolute perfect match for Focus 160s (without sounding like an a**, higher up the Dyn chain, you're probably outclassing it...any lower, you might be outclassing the speakers, lol ). That's my 3-cents, FWIW; but listen to these guys...again, privately if you want. The XS-2 was a little too warm, for my Harbeth Compact 7s; I'd LOVE to hear it, with the reportedly... slightly tipped-up...new Focus 160s!
You know how to contact me if interested.

Originally Posted by motobonsai 

I totally get your reasoning behind using an outboard dac. It makes sense.
So what dac do you recommend for the naim xs and the marantz 8004?

Originally Posted by gn77b 

you mean left reversed with right?
concerning phase... one time I somehow managed to accidentally reverse the polarity on one speaker without being aware of it. chance had it that first song I listened to that way was completely unknown to me. first few seconds I thought "nice sound effects" but soon after I began thinking "I feel nauseous and damn me if i it's not the music". first thing I checked afterwards was polarity...
without any trace of exaggeration, out of phase speakers make me dizzy. I think it's the brain trying to localize sources in a sound that is completely unnatural. with a familiar song one should be able to notice it in a matter of seconds, I do believe that.

Originally Posted by CDLehner 

Prolle, obviously I have a dog in this fight...so you can take this with a grain of salt if you like. That being said, I'm not such a scumbag that I would lie...just to move a piece of gear, that's going to sell anyway. These guys will tell you...in private if you like; I've bought and sold plenty of stuff, and have the abundant and perfect feedback to prove it.
So...with that disclaimer out of the way, let me give you my honest take. Callas might disagree...though he's said the XS does have "better" circuitry...but when I was trying to decide between the 5i (i or i-2), the Naim guys that I sought-out, ALL agreed the XS(-2) was worth the extra $$$ (if you have them of course). Now, you can take that with a grain of salt too; because most fan(atics) of a brand, will always lead you to higher ground; present company NOT excluded.
Second, as I think I stated recently...as a long-time, all-digital, one-source guy; the DAC is of paramount importance in my chain (as I always like to say...it is my source). Therefore, I'm not a fan of the "built-in". The DAC in the Naim units is probably quite good; but there's really no way to tell, is there; no way to sort of measure or audition it on its own? The only way to hear it...is to have it forever and always, tied to the Naim pre-amp. What if in 2 years, they completely f*cking revolutionize DACs, lol. It's emerging technology, so not nearly as far-fetched as it might seem. Certainly, strides are happening fast and furiously; and I just wouldn't want to be "locked-in", to even what is a very good-sounding DAC right now. Of course, YMMV.
Lastly, I will say this...again, with all candor and honesty: the XS-2 is a unit, that new would be well out of your budget. Sure, ~$700 over doesn't sound like much...especially when you're talking 4-figures; but it does represent a 35% overage. That's no small amount. This XS-2 is "as new"; purchased new in 9/2012, and barely used...given the circumstances (first owner immediately upgraded to Naim separates, and I simply auditioned it against a much more expensive contender). Hell...it might even need some break-in, lol.
I think this would give you a unit you couldn't otherwise afford, and is the absolute perfect match for Focus 160s (without sounding like an a**, higher up the Dyn chain, you're probably outclassing it...any lower, you might be outclassing the speakers, lol ). That's my 3-cents, FWIW; but listen to these guys...again, privately if you want. The XS-2 was a little too warm, for my Harbeth Compact 7s; I'd LOVE to hear it, with the reportedly... slightly tipped-up...new Focus 160s!
You know how to contact me if interested.

Originally Posted by prolle 

i would love to buy it but would not like to foot the bill of shipping to Ireland!

Originally Posted by lulimet 

Can that Oppo stream music from your PC?

Originally Posted by prolle 

Anybody have any thoughts on using an Oppo bdp 105 to function as a cd player and dac for music from my pc? Maybe i could partner this with a dedicated integrated amp? Reviews indicate that it gag great sound quality

Originally Posted by motobonsai 

I like class d amplification from what I've auditioned so far.
Does anyone have any insight about bel canto?
Is the c5i integrated good enough for the focus 160's?
Or how about a dac/pre 1.5 with ref 1000mk amps?
The second setup is on audiogon now. I would prefer the all in one unless its not good enough.
Are both of these way below the quality of say the naim xs?

Originally Posted by motobonsai 

I like class d amplification from what I've auditioned so far.
Does anyone have any insight about bel canto?
Is the c5i integrated good enough for the focus 160's?
Or how about a dac/pre 1.5 with ref 1000mk amps?
The second setup is on audiogon now. I would prefer the all in one unless its not good enough.
Are both of these way below the quality of say the naim xs?

Originally Posted by CDLehner 

Moto, what have you auditioned so far? I gave class-D a little sniff. My first taste was the uber-cheap PS Audio Trio A-100. I was looking at a Bel Canto S125, and a dealer who carried both, suggested the PSA was "better" (I remember his reasoning: he said in his mind, the amp sections sounded the same...both based on the same B&O module of course; and he thought the guys at PSA tweaked-up the input section a bit). That was way back when, with my Focus 140s...and I can't say I came away impressed.
I always wanted to give them another shot though, as I'm really enamored with the technology, if not the sound. I always said if I tried again, it would be to audition Wyred4Sound monos; probably SX-500s, right in the sweet spot. A friend suggested that a good deal, on a used ST-250 that popped-up, might give me an "idea" of the W4S sound. I'm not sure you can say the 125/220 unit, would let-on what 250/550 monos might sound like; but I was pretty damn impressed with what ~$500 IIRC could buy you.
FWIW, I don't remember the W4S (or even the PSA for that matter), ever sounding harsh...like you might expect class-D to; cold or harsh. Rather, it just didn't seem to have any life, or energy, or character to the sound; what I tend to call "dry". But I'd love to hear about good experiences with class-D. I still think someone will probably nail it in the future (Hypex NCore-based designs, like from Mola Mola?)