Dynaudio Owner's Thread - Page 610

Like the post above Arny's?

Tried to warn us about what? That this guy would come into a forum, he has no business in (I assume, based on his comments...he is not a Dynaudio owner), and start sh*t with people? Is that something to be proud, and/or cower about?

I thought you were trying to say the guy was some respected EE, or audio guru. Guy with an opinion; what makes that so special?

I had a long, cordial PM session with callas01 about this. He's free to share my thoughts with you if he chooses to do so.

To say that he is coming into this forum and starting sh*t is hardly an accurate characterization of what has happened. amateurholic argued with him in another thread, then mentioned the argument here, and you guys were pretty quick to mock Arny's posts. So he's hardly coming here to start sh*t. More like you guys started sh*t with somebody who never backs down.

Nope; if we wanted to start sh*t with him, we would have posted over there. Do you think we don't know our way around AVS; how to do a member search?

What we post in here, is meant for private consumption; at least in as far as for the Dyn owner's group. Now...that being said; he's entitled to his opinion (or I guess what he would call fact), and I'm entitled to mine: that it sounds silly.

End of story. You OTOH, sound like a bit of a sycophant.

Me a sycophant?

Be sure to kiss up to Mick one more time before you say that.

Pot calling the kettle black?

As I told callas, it's far from that. But I at least know who the guy is. Apparently you don't.

And thinking this thread is for private consumption, but that you can roast a guy behind his back and not expect him to jump in and comment? A guy who is known throughout the industry for arguments that go on for decades?

You Dyn owners really are a funny cult.

Ha ha. I don't even know (or care) who the hell this guy is.

But the conversation is entertaining.

Last post for me on the subject; don't want this to turn into a back and forth kinda thing.

Yes, we give Mick a little dap in here. You know why; he's earned it...and he takes care of us. That's something for something. Has this guy ever replaced 4-figure tweeters for you, for free? Has this guy ever set aside a special pair of speakers for you to buy? That's fine that you admire him (though you've still yet to tell us WTH he is?). Maybe sycophant was the wrong word; perhaps instigator?

"Do you know who you're arguing with"? "I tried to warn you"? Seems to me as if you're the one stirring that pot. I don't imagine anyone in here would agree with what he claims, but in here (and, myself included, I'll not speak for outside of here)...we try to keep the peace.

Fair enough?

The sad thing is, some people will take advice from this guy. Kidding aside, this post suggests a personality disorder.

Like I've always said those are someones specs. I think if you listen to the speakers you may not want much more considering their size and price point. And who knows - they may have been in a bookshelf when he made those measurements. Or he was in a 50' X 50' room measuring too far back. All I know is my C1's kick butt and that's without even the sub. With the sub crossed over at 32hz it sounds just right. When I used frequency sweeps to set up the sub the sweep sounded right but the music sucked (way toooo boooooomy). Your own ears are the best judge

You're defending Arny? Seriously, work on your self esteem.

Ok I would like to see the specs that he thinks is ideal using a speaker in the same size. But let's not stop there. I want to see all the frequencies up to 20K. Then come back with the MSRP/Brand and model on his ideal speakers. If they are Klipsh or something like that we all would understand this guy is all specs and no sense of hearing
Hey Dean pass the popcorn and if you don't mind fetch me another beer

I doubt we're in for much of a show (well, maybe by Dyn-thread standards...lol). I don't have any propensity to argue with this guy; I don't even know what those specs are supposed to mean (and I don't hang my head one bit about it).

Here's what I do know; anyone who says a 50wpc amp over-drives Focus 160s, is letting his specs cross-up his ears. Furthermore, a statement like "unless these are only for night time use, or use in a tiny apartment or dormitory with thin walls, they would need a subwoofer to be able to cover even just the narrowest possible view of the musical frequency spectrum" sounds almost personal.

This guy believes 20-to-20, at 100db to be "musical"; he's got his criteria. I listen for whether they sound good. That's all; show's over, lol.

Bologna is good if you never tasted steak. If you heard a speaker capable of 20/20 at 100 db you may realize what good is.

Yes, yes; I've heard it all before. None of us know what we're missing; reviewers, designers, the audio industry as a whole... enthusiasts. We're all in on the conspiracy. Must be great to be you. You really should publish, and get out of basement and Internet. Sounds like you have real money and change to make!

I'm sorry; I know I'm supposed to resist...these guys just crack me up. I read a lot of their posts; I really do. You know what I've decided; they're more sheep following a pack, than we are. They just don't have the glossy magazines.

It is amusing when reviewers are criticized

---

until the give a good review of a fanboys product. Suddenly he is a genius. I have kept my money and like you buy what sounds good to me. I could care less if it is a famous big name brand.

I dismiss the glossy reviews. However, I do know that a -7db is noticeable.

Really just wanted to rattle you a little.

No, no; don't go back-tracking. You know better than all of us; all hail, audio god! It's right there, in black and white. You said it...why not own it?

I'm genuflecting as I type.

I am not back tracking on anything. BTW, you are the one who started as the audio god. Of course you are continually spouting gibberish.

trouble is I don't even know what this is about. anyone care to fill me in so I can join?

I did an experiment today. took all the blankets I could find and using strings I tried to cover the walls as much as I could in my listening room. result? the speakers are almost unrecognizable. there's a lot of low level detail missing without the blankets, like strings vibrating against frets, tape noise, voice detail etc. and that is only one of the things that got better. of course, it's temporary and I'll remove the blankets before anyone sees them and calls the men in white coats but it kinda depresses me as it's a living room and there aren't many ways to add acoustic treatment in an aesthetically acceptable way.
it also makes me think of the hardfloor rooms without carpets but filled with ultra expensive gear connected with esoteric cabling I see on sites like 6moons. at least Stereophile doesn't post room pics so we can image they're decent.

I just wanted to point out that I was in no way disrespectful in my comments in the other thread, just pointing out that Dyns handle themselves well at almost all frequencies given their limitations due to size and construction. His words were meant to incite, just as if someone came in here proclaiming BOSE speakers to be the best of all. There are some trolls who are informed, and pick their battles carefully so they can win through data. I feel that his words do not take away from my enjoyment of music through my 140s, so for me, there's no harm, no foul. We can let him think his way, and buy whatever he likes, and listen how he chooses. We should all be able to enjoy our music how we want without justifying our means to others.

I've learned a lot through this thread, let's keep it productive guys, thanks for all the good tips and keep the ideas flowing

At some point a loudspeaker will reach its max spl from there the speaker compresses and loses spl, that is called compression. Compression drivers can put out much higher spls before compressing.

My guess is that is what arny's post was about. I can't be 100% sure tho. There are parts of his post I disagree with, however disagreeing is a matter of my preferences. Dyn bookshelfs don't have to have a sub unless you feel it enhances your musical experience but for movies it would be great to have a sub handle the lower frequencies. But Dyns do produce great bass, but at some point physics takes over. So at some point even the great bass that dyns produce will happen but at a lower spl until the frequency is no longer audible. I also don't agree (and I know) that 50 wpc won't overdrive the 160. I've heard the 160s played at a fairly high volume by much more then 50 watts.
Edited by callas01 - 1/8/13 at 8:26pm

Racetripper ftw, lol

Finally someone in this thread is making sense.

 

 

It is possible that compression is setting in at the spl delivered by 50w, is that going to overdrive the 160's? Hardly, I've pushed even my little 110's far beyond that before they bottom out and are overdriven. Overdriven is my books doesn't match up to the definition however this guy is posted. Compression isn't overdriving a speaker, just the point at which you want to consider crossing the speakers over to sub sub to maintain a flat response down low or avoid excess distortion if that's the behaviour the driver is starting to display.

 

The way the poster stated the info was rather poor, that doesn't mean that it's completely wrong, it's probably somewhere in the neighborhood. It's difficult to make blanket statements like he did, every room is going to be different. The way the 160's performed is his room isn't going to be the same as the way they perform in mine or Callas's etc. The frequency response range that Dynaudio claims is done in an anechoic chamber, something which none of us are listening to our speakers in. Some rooms have more room gain down low than others, my 110's don't start to heavily compress until 50hz at 100db. My room has lots of gain down low which other rooms may not have.

so, are we going to ask the mods to rename this to something like "focus compression battle war"?

Are the ridiculous "re-break in" conversations preferred?

 

God forbid someone have a conversation which is actually about the real performance of Dyn's.

Are you asking about mods/ or upgrades performed by Dynaudio or in general?

Aside from changing drivers and re-working the crossovers to work with new drivers you would be limited to things like upgrading items within the crossover. Race Tripper is correct in that changing drivers etc... will be cost prohibitive when you can sell and re-buy, however if you are simply wanting to tweak there is plenty of fun to be had with the crossovers...

If not the speakers what about tweaking the room? Any acoustic treatments being used currently?

Hello dynfan,
Thanks for your reply. I won't mess with the 220's at the moment, I should just stop reading product reviews etc.
But having mentioned room accoustics has now got me motivated into experimenting.
The room has wooden walls and a couple of doorways so I will trial some temporary DIY measures and compare.
cheers

You knows guys...and I address the entire forum here: I've really mellowed a lot over the last few years; and despite what they always try to say...we don't listen, we don't try to see their point, etc. I have listened.

But this is clearly a matter of extremes, and I think the statement above exemplifies it. What...just because we don't want to talk about speakers, in terms of this...

10 69
20 81
30 88
40 93
50 97
60 100
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100 109
130 114

...that means we want to talk about "re break-in"? If you were paying attention, you'd see a lot of us are on the record as that seeming suspect too. But let's talk about the "real" performance of Dyn speakers; because unless I'm missing your point...you seem to be indicating the "real" performance is what you can measure, not what you can hear. I've sold my Dyns, I've gone smaller and simpler; I could completely change my approach to the hobby...go 180-degrees, and still never understand a statement like this. What if Dyns had 100db up to 30k; would that make them better, in terms of "real" performance? Why...you couldn't hear it. Now I know low frequencies are different, but I just don't see how someone...with a straight face...can say what's "real" is what you can measure, versus what you can hear. Isn't how it sounds the end-game? And that's highly subjective. Do you know...and I know if you get around, you must...how many people I've heard say XYZ speakers sounds bright to them; while others have said it sounds dull?

Real is how you perceive the sound. Rating a speaker by how it measures, is like trying to judge a movie...by reading the script on the Internet; there are intangibles, and it just doesn't tell the whole story. Now...before you go all objectivist jihad on me; please pay attention to what I didn't say. I didn't say they meant nothing; I didn't say they aren't relevant. I never said "those numbers look like bullsh*t to me" (and for the record...as someone here suggested; do we really think, Arny measured those numbers himself? I just assumed...like most...he was re-posting someone else's work. OTOH, no one will still tell me who he is...and why I should suspect, he measures every loudspeaker, ever produced, in his very own listening-room). What I took exception to are two, specific assertions: one, that Focus 160s are over-driven by any amp over 50wpc. "Over-driven" in a "scientific" sense, whatever the hell that means...uh, whatever. Over-driven, in terms of real-world: producing audible distortion, sounding bad...breaking-up; see...I know that not to be true. And then this whole thing about Focus 160s only being good enough for low-level, late-night listening...or for your tiny apartment or dorm-room; that's just drivel.

But again, he and the rest of "you"; you're entitled to your opinion or your version of the facts. They always say "it's not opinion, it's fact". No...the opinion, is that selecting speakers by what measures best...is best. That's an opinion; an approach. Which is fine for you; keep listening with a microphone. I'll listen with my ears, and stay deluded.

And BTW...even though I've tried to reform, and obviously...lose my way occasionally, lol; I'll kick it old-school here, and conclude like I always used to, with the "objectivists". If speakers are judged to be, what sounds best by what measures best...then this ought to be easy as apple pie. Please share with us...what are the best speakers, I guess at any price; and then what speakers each of you has. I'm just curious about these great speakers I'm missing out on.
Edited by CDLehner - 1/9/13 at 6:28am

That would appear to be a false argument based on including an unnecessary or false dichotomy. The false dichotomy is the idea that one has to choose to believe measurements or what you hear but there is no such thing as taking advantage of both.

Reality is that measurements are quicker and more sensitive than proper listening tests, but they are abstract and in the end the numbers they produce have to be related to what we hear. It is true that people who work with measurements a lot get to the point where they can look at a graph or some numbers and they can picture in their mind what sort of sound quality is indicated by the numbers.


That's another false argument because the numbers I presented are all about the low end, not the high end. To make things worse it falsely engages the controversy over high resolution audio.

If you ever studied good rhetoric, you appear to be intentionally ignoring what you should have learned. If you want to argue with someone, at least give them the honor of arguing about something they actually said! :-(

IOW, maybe you should step back, take a deep breath, and find out a few things about audio that you don't seem to know about.

That's another false argument because I never said that real isn't how you perceive the sound. Now we made up arguments and arguing with them while apparently pretending to argue with someone else.

That would be a false argument by means of irrelevant and questionable metaphor. All movies are judged by their scripts before the script is made into a movie. Reading a script and imagining a movie well qualifies you for a high paying job in Hollywood, and here you are belittling it!

You want me to join your apparent insanity and argue with what you didn't say?

Nope, enough of this weirdness.

It will be helpful when you get a clue about proper and polite rhetoric. That would be arguing with what people actually said, not making up flawed little arguments so that you can overcome them still be a winner in your own eyes. :-(
Edited by arnyk - 1/9/13 at 6:44am

^^^ Very good. Just so it doesn't seem to be slinking away, or going unchallenged: I've read your post...it's hysterical and telling; and now we'll all move on (and we won't even comment on your TOS violations )