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post #18391 of 21628
Quote:
Originally Posted by sihctr View Post

Hi to all,

First time poster, I am new in the hi-fi world and on my way to building my first home stereo system along with my OH. After a couple of auditions, we are pretty much set on the Excite X36. They combine both sound and looks for our case!
The next step is to choose a nice amplifier. So far I've heard them with the Rotel RA-12 and the NAD 356BEE. The key difference that I could notice was that the bass was quite "loose" with the NAD, but it was much firmer with Rotel. (NAD is also disqualified by my wife due to its looks smile.gif ) Basically I was quite satisfied with the Rotel during the audition, but I am worried if it is powerful enough to drive the X36.

Do you have any advice to offer? For budget and space reasons I am looking at integrated stereo amps.
Audio source will be a small HTPC I am planning to buy, so optical audio inputs would be nice to have (otherwise I need to get a separate DAC)
Music styles: pop, rock, jazz (and Greek bouzoukia... smile.gif )
Living room size: 3.60m x 4.50m (~11.8ft x 14.5ft) (that will get bigger after a year or so, the speakers will live on much longer!)
Budget wise I can probably go up to €1000.

I am arranging a couple more auditions over the coming weeks, but any advice from the experts is more than welcome!
Naim Nait 5i, Arcam A28, Simaudio 250i, Exposure 2010S, Creek 5350, Musical Fidelity M3i are all units that should be around your price range and should give you great performance for those speakers.
post #18392 of 21628
Quote:
Originally Posted by deetothevee View Post

Thanks for all the thoughts on the Ushers. I have really enjoyed them, but am thinking about the Dyn's that I listened to a couple months ago. I find myself trying to pair other equipment with the Ushers to get that "buttery goodness" that has been mentioned and is how I fell in love with the focus 160's.

I'm new to hi-fi this year so some feedback would be appreciated. Is what I'm describing a sign that I may have chosen the wrong speaker? That if I'm trying to "get" that particular characteristic of sound (buttery goodness from the tweeter), I should start with that speaker and then build the system from that point. Then try to bring out other characteristics with an amp, dac etc.?

Thanks again!
I think it is a lot easier to start with the speaker. IMO the speaker makes the biggest difference. That being said all parts of the system make a difference (including wires). Also take your time. Try to hear as many different things as possible in your price range. Then when you get down to a couple of pieces in home auditions are the best when possible. In fact I brought my old speakers with me to dealers when I was looking for speakers. There were a couple of brands I thought was better but when I compared them side by side I preferred my old ones. The day I heard the C1's my search was over biggrin.gif Now when I looked at amps I didn't bring my Bryston with me because what I heard at the dealer didn't seem to be that big of a difference in my price range. Well I'll admit I was wrong. It wasn't until Tyler brought over the Octave V70se to my house that I heard how much better sounding it really was. cool.gif

That's my story and to date I have not regretted any purchase smile.gif
post #18393 of 21628
Quote:
Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post

I think it is a lot easier to start with the speaker. IMO the speaker makes the biggest difference. That being said all parts of the system make a difference (including wires). Also take your time. Try to hear as many different things as possible in your price range. Then when you get down to a couple of pieces in home auditions are the best when possible. In fact I brought my old speakers with me to dealers when I was looking for speakers. There were a couple of brands I thought was better but when I compared them side by side I preferred my old ones. The day I heard the C1's my search was over biggrin.gif Now when I looked at amps I didn't bring my Bryston with me because what I heard at the dealer didn't seem to be that big of a difference in my price range. Well I'll admit I was wrong. It wasn't until Tyler brought over the Octave V70se to my house that I heard how much better sounding it really was. cool.gif

That's my story and to date I have not regretted any purchase smile.gif

Was the Bryston also an integrated tube anp?
post #18394 of 21628
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

Was the Bryston also an integrated tube anp?
Yes it was the B100SST which I had before I found the C1's. Not a bad integrated it just didn't have the 'control' I was looking for (like Sim or Burmester). Octave has the control and I didn't have to take out a second mortgage biggrin.gif Plus now I can roll tubes when I want to change up the sound a bit.
post #18395 of 21628
Quote:
Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post

Yes it was the B100SST which I had before I found the C1's. Not a bad integrated it just didn't have the 'control' I was looking for (like Sim or Burmester). Octave has the control and I didn't have to take out a second mortgage biggrin.gif Plus now I can roll tubes when I want to change up the sound a bit.

I can understand why the Bryston and Octave sound different. One is tube and the other is SS. Also the processing would likely sound different with each.

I think I would like tube rolling since I am constantly wanting to tinker with my systems. Maybe someday.
post #18396 of 21628
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

I can understand why the Bryston and Octave sound different. One is tube and the other is SS. Also the processing would likely sound different with each.

I think I would like tube rolling since I am constantly wanting to tinker with my systems. Maybe someday.
As far as SS the Sim and Burmester sound quite different. I prefer the Burmester but it comes with a steep price.

Tube rolling is a ball. The different tubes can can also be quite different too. Not that I have any tubes that sound bad but vintage tubes are very different than the current production. Not to mention how expensive some of the vintage tubes can cost. eek.gif
post #18397 of 21628
Quote:
Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post

As far as SS the Sim and Burmester sound quite different. I prefer the Burmester but it comes with a steep price.

Tube rolling is a ball. The different tubes can can also be quite different too. Not that I have any tubes that sound bad but vintage tubes are very different than the current production. Not to mention how expensive some of the vintage tubes can cost. eek.gif

I have limited knowledge about various tube sounds. I have had dealings with a guy who sells tubes. He has a spare room (maybe 12 x 12) full of tubes. Not sure what kind of pricing he has.
post #18398 of 21628
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

I have limited knowledge about various tube sounds. I have had dealings with a guy who sells tubes. He has a spare room (maybe 12 x 12) full of tubes. Not sure what kind of pricing he has.
Well I'm always looking. Especially for quads or pairs of Tung Sol 6550 solid black or grey plates. Original Tesla KT88 (prefer white lettering) NOT JJ and Gec KT88's.
post #18399 of 21628
Quote:
Originally Posted by wantmorehd View Post

Great looking room, I read the entire thread about your build, nice job. After reading your glowing review for the Earthquake amp I thought I would see if anywhere were available on popular hi-fi buy/sell board here and I found a 3 channel version and then noticed the weight and size of it. HOLY COW! I think it would break my shelf if I could even get it on it. OH well, too bad as the price was right and would have considered buying it.

Thank you for reading and the compliments. I am still working on it regularly and working to improve the acoustics by treating the first reflection points with Absorption and the other problem areas with diffusion. That said it's a shame the weight of the earthquake is going to hold you back, although I do understand. I would not put mine on a shelf in my rack; I framed and built the bottom of my DIY rack to hold the weight of the 5 channel. Prior to that it was floor "mounted" lol...

I am also working on my amp right now as well. I am taking one channel out at a time and replacing the capacitors for new and higher quality units. I am curious as to what improvements I notice. I think many people fail to realize that electrolytic capacitors fail and break down over time and that just because they are working all is well. In my case I took my amp apart for cleaning and noticed the dome's of the caps were ballooning and one was slightly leaking. Not uncommon for an amp that is almost 10 years old. So for everyone that has an amp that was bought used or has sat for long periods of time not powered up or just in general, it pays to check your gear internally... The best part is that the replacement is pretty simple! I found the parts and am having a local tech. clean and solder on the new ones. The cost will be less than the shipping both ways to the manufacturer and I am getting a better quality part.

OK totally sidetracked and not Dynaudio specific but I suppose at least it is audio nerd talk, you can all get behind that right? biggrin.gif
post #18400 of 21628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynero View Post

I'd personally go for a little more power than the Rotel unless you plan on keeping the volume at low to moderate levels. Those extra drivers could use the juice, maybe something at >100 watts at 8 ohms/150 at 4 ohms would to me, be the sweet spot for a moderately sized floorstander like the x36.

Quote:
Originally Posted by callas01 View Post

Naim Nait 5i, Arcam A28, Simaudio 250i, Exposure 2010S, Creek 5350, Musical Fidelity M3i are all units that should be around your price range and should give you great performance for those speakers.

Thank you both for your quick replies, even if they seem to go in the opposite direction!

I will not be playing music at ear-splitting levels, so I don't think maximum power will be a huge issue. I've auditioned the X36 at a room quite larger than mine, and the Rotel seemed to be coping quite well (as far as volume and bass control is concerned). However I suppose (based mostly on internet study) that a more powerful amp would probably control the speakers a bit better. I guess I would feel a bit more comfortable with something at the order of 70-80W (given the budget).

That said, I don't deny that I am drooling over the idea of getting a Naim amp. biggrin.gif I am not sure if I will manage to find a shop that has both Naim and Dynaudio at the same time, but I am willing to search around Belgium (and a bit further) if necessary! Then again, isn't 50W a bit on the low side? (I am also pretty sure that comparing these numbers between different brands is useless). Arcam A28 is also something I have in mind and, @75W, sounds a bit closer to target.

Rest assured, I am not buying anything unless I listen to it first, but any extra direction at this early stage is very welcome! (and maybe I can discover a used Naim XS at some point)
post #18401 of 21628
Quote:
Originally Posted by sihctr View Post


Thank you both for your quick replies, even if they seem to go in the opposite direction!

I will not be playing music at ear-splitting levels, so I don't think maximum power will be a huge issue. I've auditioned the X36 at a room quite larger than mine, and the Rotel seemed to be coping quite well (as far as volume and bass control is concerned). However I suppose (based mostly on internet study) that a more powerful amp would probably control the speakers a bit better. I guess I would feel a bit more comfortable with something at the order of 70-80W (given the budget).

That said, I don't deny that I am drooling over the idea of getting a Naim amp. biggrin.gif I am not sure if I will manage to find a shop that has both Naim and Dynaudio at the same time, but I am willing to search around Belgium (and a bit further) if necessary! Then again, isn't 50W a bit on the low side? (I am also pretty sure that comparing these numbers between different brands is useless). Arcam A28 is also something I have in mind and, @75W, sounds a bit closer to target.

Rest assured, I am not buying anything unless I listen to it first, but any extra direction at this early stage is very welcome! (and maybe I can discover a used Naim XS at some point)
I too worried about the 50 wpc but the naim is very powerful and really good bass
post #18402 of 21628
Quote:
Originally Posted by sihctr View Post


...Then again, isn't 50W a bit on the low side? (I am also pretty sure that comparing these numbers between different brands is useless). Arcam A28 is also something I have in mind and, @75W, sounds a bit closer to target.

Rest assured, I am not buying anything unless I listen to it first, but any extra direction at this early stage is very welcome! (and maybe I can discover a used Naim XS at some point)
Naim power ratings are extremely deceiving. They really deliver a lot more punch than their WPC ratings lead you to think. My first experience with Naim was back in the 80s when the original Naim NAIT at 18 WPC walked all over my McIntosh separates system at some 120 WPC. I sold my entire Mac system within the week, bought a Naim 42.5/HC/140 system and never looked back.
post #18403 of 21628
Quote:
Originally Posted by callas01 View Post

I too worried about the 50 wpc but the naim is very powerful and really good bass

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceTripper View Post

Naim power ratings are extremely deceiving. They really deliver a lot more punch than their WPC ratings lead you to think. My first experience with Naim was back in the 80s when the original Naim NAIT at 18 WPC walked all over my McIntosh separates system at some 120 WPC. I sold my entire Mac system within the week, bought a Naim 42.5/HC/140 system and never looked back.

You 've both got me curious now! I definitely need to audition this combination, but first I need to locate it! Oh boy, I wonder where my budget will end up in the end! biggrin.gif
post #18404 of 21628
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceTripper View Post

Naim power ratings are extremely deceiving. They really deliver a lot more punch than their WPC ratings lead you to think. My first experience with Naim was back in the 80s when the original Naim NAIT at 18 WPC walked all over my McIntosh separates system at some 120 WPC. I sold my entire Mac system within the week, bought a Naim 42.5/HC/140 system and never looked back.
I will also agree - the Naim is very deceiving regarding power. Just like Octave and Pass. My vote would be for the XS if it's affordable. Later you can add a p/s which will lower the noise floor and give you a hair more headroom. biggrin.gif At least there is an upgrade path without breaking the bank account.
post #18405 of 21628
Project downsize has been mostly completed. Sold the McCormack amp today and am still trying to sell the preamp. Been watching the buy/sell everyday and there were only 2 Naim 5i's available, one being 4 hours from me. This morning I noticed a NAP 150x show up so I purchased it and now have it in my system. I had a recent model Marantz receiver sitting around so I'm using that as my pre now. I know I said I was looking for an IA but for some reason I prefer to have separates even if it isn't any better sonically, just like the look of separate boxes. At least I'm honest.

I also know the Marantz isn't the best pre I could be using connected to the Naim but I can live with it for now and I knew I would be making some compromises with the downsizing. Besides, I could be doing a lot worse than I am now.

Been listening to the revised setup for the last couple of hours and can say that I'm still very happy (I'm more about the music) and think I should be able to keep this for a while.

In between the sale and purchase I had to use just the Marantz to power the Dyn's for a short period and I can honestly say, I don't think I would have been able to do that for a long time. Not that it was terrible, it just wasn't great.

On a non-related note....I help setup a HTIB at a friends house on the weekend. They paid $300 on sale for a Pioneer receiver and 6 speakers (5 + sub). As we all know, this doesn't compare to any Dyn system out there but for only $300 I was kind of impressed.

Not that I could do a lot to make it sound amazing but by just helping get things setup properly, doing some basic calibrations (mostly balancing speaker levels) they are now able to listen to movies/music and enjoy it.

For this person, they are very happy, have sound that is 100x better than their TV speakers and has hopefully stepped into the world of HI-FI, even if its with just a baby toe.
post #18406 of 21628
I bought a pair of Dynaudio BM12A, it produced a noticeable white noise (mainly from tweeter) ONLY when playing sound. With audio cable unplug there is no such noise. Even plugged in DAC, when not playing music, there is also no such noise.

If the pause the media player, the noise will continue for a few seconds, any idea if this is the problem with the speaker, or something else?

The noise is constant regardless of volume when playing music.


Thanks a bunch.


Edit: I plug the speaker into my mp3 player, the noise is gone. Looks like it is the problem with DAC. Strange my DAC doesn't have this noise issue with my other set of speakers.
Edited by kanonathena - 1/15/13 at 12:21am
post #18407 of 21628
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanonathena View Post

I bought a pair of Dynaudio BM12A, it produced a noticeable white noise (mainly from tweeter) ONLY when playing sound. With audio cable unplug there is no such noise. Even plugged in DAC, when not playing music, there is also no such noise.

If the pause the media player, the noise will continue for a few seconds, any idea if this is the problem with the speaker, or something else?

The noise is constant regardless of volume when playing music.


Thanks a bunch.


Edit: I plug the speaker into my mp3 player, the noise is gone. Looks like it is the problem with DAC. Strange my DAC doesn't have this noise issue with my other set of speakers.
the BM12A is an active design, isn't it?
similar problems have been reported before with other DAC/amp combinations. it's an infortunate DAC+amp pairing. not many fixes there. try another DAC if you have the possibility.
post #18408 of 21628
Anyone have experience with the Dynaudio confidence signature center?

I currently use the Contour S 5.4 as fronts and they really sound great! In fact they are so good to my ears that I now dream about the C4 signatures.

The bottleneck in my system right now is the current center although not a bad speaker in itself.

So: complete my system with the matching Contour S CX center or save up about twice as much and go for the signature center? I might save in the long run.

Might seem like an easy answer I guess but the C4's, well I could have the money for Them maybe 18-24 months after getting center.

Anyways curious to hear comments on either center :-)
post #18409 of 21628
Quote:
Originally Posted by clausdk View Post

Anyone have experience with the Dynaudio confidence signature center?

I currently use the Contour S 5.4 as fronts and they really sound great! In fact they are so good to my ears that I now dream about the C4 signatures.

The bottleneck in my system right now is the current center although not a bad speaker in itself.

So: complete my system with the matching Contour S CX center or save up about twice as much and go for the signature center? I might save in the long run.

Might seem like an easy answer I guess but the C4's, well I could have the money for Them maybe 18-24 months after getting center.

Anyways curious to hear comments on either center :-)

What center are you using right now?

I would say it really depends on what your viewing and listening habits are and how likely are you to upgrade to the C4's?

The SCX is no slouch and I have heard it used with the C1's and C2's with good results; it comes down to personal preference and actual usage though.
post #18410 of 21628
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynfan View Post

What center are you using right now?

I would say it really depends on what your viewing and listening habits are and how likely are you to upgrade to the C4's?

The SCX is no slouch and I have heard it used with the C1's and C2's with good results; it comes down to personal preference and actual usage though.

The SCX has the Esotar2 tweeter, so it should be a reasonable tonal match and performer with the S5.4s or the Confidence.
post #18411 of 21628
dynfan,

Current one is Sonus Faber Domus center. I upgraded from Dynaudio focus 220's. Was set on the Cremona from Sonus Faber, but after some demo's it didn't impress me enough. Had several C4 demo's. not the new version though, and it always impressed me.

Mostly movies, but upgrading to the Contour S5.4 infused my stereo passion quite a bit since it simply is a lot better than it was with the focus 220's. I just finished upgrading my room with 2 acoustical fabric walls so bass response is REALLY good now, no problem controlling the two 8" in the Contours. I can play quite loud, to the point that it is hard to hear what the other person is saying, but you don't realize it before you try to. At around master volume -5 for instance, it appears to me, that the center is struggling and to my ears it sounds a bit like compression/distortion. I guess I could test with REW for THD, but I haven't done that yet. Although the center I have now sounds really great, when pushed hard it becomes harsh.

One other thing I should perhaps mention is, that I wan't to mount my screen even lower than it already is now. I read that the Confidence center, has a switch for placement "above" or "below". Also, it incorporates the DDC tech. How much this is worth compared to the Contour center, I don't know:)

Likelihood of getting the C4's? Big I suppose, I don't foresee any large expenses over the next couple of years that might spoil my dream speaker project!!

Personal preference and usage? maybe you can expand on that if you have the time:)
post #18412 of 21628
Thanks, BM12A is a active design. I contacted the DAC manufacturer, he said the output signal level of the DAC is 4.5 volt RMS, and it seems BM12A doesn't support that output. Any idea what output signal level BM12A or Dynaudio studio monitors in general actually support?
post #18413 of 21628
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanonathena View Post

Thanks, BM12A is a active design. I contacted the DAC manufacturer, he said the output signal level of the DAC is 4.5 volt RMS, and it seems BM12A doesn't support that output. Any idea what output signal level BM12A or Dynaudio studio monitors in general actually support?
Not sure of the levels but here is a link to the owners manual and it states the level trim switch is either -10db or +4db. Have you tried -10db?
http://dynaudioprofessional.com/media/3936/bm12a_manual_web.pdf
post #18414 of 21628
Quote:
Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post

Not sure of the levels but here is a link to the owners manual and it states the level trim switch is either -10db or +4db. Have you tried -10db?
http://dynaudioprofessional.com/media/3936/bm12a_manual_web.pdf

Yes, -10db has the lowest noise level, still audible 1m away though. Another thing, it is normal for these BM12A to have some noise from both tweeter and woofer audible within 30cm with audio cable unplugged? Not loud though, but I can still hear them 50cm away If I try to.
post #18415 of 21628
Quote:
Originally Posted by clausdk View Post

dynfan,

Current one is Sonus Faber Domus center. I upgraded from Dynaudio focus 220's. Was set on the Cremona from Sonus Faber, but after some demo's it didn't impress me enough. Had several C4 demo's. not the new version though, and it always impressed me.

Mostly movies, but upgrading to the Contour S5.4 infused my stereo passion quite a bit since it simply is a lot better than it was with the focus 220's. I just finished upgrading my room with 2 acoustical fabric walls so bass response is REALLY good now, no problem controlling the two 8" in the Contours. I can play quite loud, to the point that it is hard to hear what the other person is saying, but you don't realize it before you try to. At around master volume -5 for instance, it appears to me, that the center is struggling and to my ears it sounds a bit like compression/distortion. I guess I could test with REW for THD, but I haven't done that yet. Although the center I have now sounds really great, when pushed hard it becomes harsh.

One other thing I should perhaps mention is, that I wan't to mount my screen even lower than it already is now. I read that the Confidence center, has a switch for placement "above" or "below". Also, it incorporates the DDC tech. How much this is worth compared to the Contour center, I don't know:)

Likelihood of getting the C4's? Big I suppose, I don't foresee any large expenses over the next couple of years that might spoil my dream speaker project!!

Personal preference and usage? maybe you can expand on that if you have the time:)

clausdk, What are you using for electronics? Also, how large is your room.? I have C2s and the Contour SCX center. As mentioned above, the Confidence series and the SCX both have Esotar2 tweeter. If you know for a fact that you will eventually get the C4 MkII and your primary activity is movies, then I would consider holding out for the Confidence center. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy my SCX center with my C2s. However, in retrospect, I wish I had waited and bought the Confidence center. Your S5.4s are very nice as well! I've heard them and liked them very much. They do a wonderful job with music.

post #18416 of 21628
FYI, to anyone who may be interested. I will be posting an ad to sell my Naim Nait XS "1" integrated amp soon. I am the second owner of this unit and it has been a real joy to own for the last 2 years. It would make a fine pairing with many Dyn model speakers, from the excite range on up to the contour line. About a year ago I had the pleasure of pairing it with C1 mk 1's and it did not disappoint. But I've noticed that this amp has been discussed here a ton so I'm sure everyone is well aware of its reputation hence I will leave more comments to the official ad. Anyways, feel free to pm me if interested.

In addition to the XS, "for the vinyl enthusiast amongst the group," I will also list a Naim Stageline N, which pairs beautifully with the XS!!! This deal will be a steal of a lifetime....I can promise you that!!!
post #18417 of 21628
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick05 View Post

FYI, to anyone who may be interested. I will be posting an ad to sell my Naim Nait XS "1" integrated amp soon. I am the second owner of this unit and it has been a real joy to own for the last 2 years. It would make a fine pairing with many Dyn model speakers, from the excite range on up to the contour line. About a year ago I had the pleasure of pairing it with C1 mk 1's and it did not disappoint. But I've noticed that this amp has benn discussed here pretty a ton so I'm sure everyone is well aware of its reputation so I will leave more comments to the official ad. Anyways, feel free to pm me if interested.

In addition to the XS, "for the vinyl enthusiast amongst the group," I will also list a Naim Stageline N, which pairs beautifully with the XS!!! This deal will be a steal of a lifetime....I can promise you that!!!


Does your XS have HT Bypass? If this is a XS "1" I think it might be worth noting if it doesn't. I think that the XS2 added that. Otherwise, I believe it is the same as the current model.

But it is a great amp!
Edited by RaceTripper - 1/17/13 at 6:47am
post #18418 of 21628
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceTripper View Post

Does your XS have HT Bypass? If this is a XS "1" I think it might be worth noting if it doesn't. I think that the XS2 added that. Otherwise, I believe it is the same as the current model.

But it is a great amp!


RT, the XS that I own does indeed have the HTBP feature, as that is how I am running it now. I have always been a bit perplexed by this subject, as I have noticed that question a bunch. I may be mistaken but the only thing that I have noticed as a difference between the 1st and 2nd versions (besides internals) is the front fascia being a bit different with the XS "2" having the newer look borrowed from the classic line.
post #18419 of 21628
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick05 View Post

RT, the XS that I own does indeed have the HTBP feature, as that is how I am running it now. I have always been a bit perplexed by this subject, as I have noticed that question a bunch. I may be mistaken but the only thing that I have noticed as a difference between the 1st and 2nd versions (besides internals) is the front fascia being a bit different with the XS "2" having the newer look borrowed from the classic line.

Thanks for the clarification. Perhaps it was the revision to the NAIT 5i that added HTBP, and that is where I was confused.
post #18420 of 21628
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceTripper View Post

Thanks for the clarification. Perhaps it was the revision to the NAIT 5i that added HTBP, and that is where I was confused.


Dean, the nait 5i did not have a AV Gain, but the 5i (italic) and 5i-2 have an AV gain
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