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post #18421 of 19354
1/18/13 at 3:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanonathena View Post

Yes, -10db has the lowest noise level, still audible 1m away though. Another thing, it is normal for these BM12A to have some noise from both tweeter and woofer audible within 30cm with audio cable unplugged? Not loud though, but I can still hear them 50cm away If I try to.
that is the input picking up mains hum and other electromagnetic cr@p, it will happen with any amp in existence.
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post #18422 of 19354
1/18/13 at 3:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by callas01 View Post

Dean, the nait 5i did not have a AV Gain, but the 5i (italic) and 5i-2 have an AV gain
Yeah, that's what I was thinking of. I can't keep the HTBP features straight. My NAc202 has it too, but I keep my two-channel music and multi-channel AV systems in different rooms.
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post #18423 of 19354
1/18/13 at 9:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gn77b View Post

that is the input picking up mains hum and other electromagnetic cr@p, it will happen with any amp in existence.

I agree, usually lifting the ground will help with the issue. The MC-15 and Focus 110A use the same amp as the BM12A and we have had a few issues with mains hum and lifting the grould solved most of them.
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post #18424 of 19354
1/18/13 at 9:34am
Just a few of the comments from the press at CES::

Stereophile:

Dynaudio Evidence Platinum loudspeakers and Octave MRE 220 mono amplifiers



Octave's new MRE 220 tube monoblock amplifiers ($23,700/pair), which use KT 120 tubes, and Jubilee tube preamplifier ($36,000), both imported by Dynaudio USA, were used to power the new Dynaudio Evidence Platinum floorstanding loudspeakers ($85,000/pair). Source equipment included a dCS Scarlatti digital front-end, Clearaudio Innovation Wood turntable with Universal 9" tonearm ($15,000) and Clearaudio Da Vinci MC cartridge ($5,500). Dynaudio's Mike Manousselis played me Sibelius's Finlandia, which showed off the Evidence Platinum's ability to create a large deep soundstage and amazing ability to reproduce a smooth string sound


Octave MRE 220 monoblock




The great-looking, tube-based Octave Audio MRE220 mono amplifiers, both designed and made in Germany, were driving the new Dynaudio Evidence Platinum speakers to great effect. The MRE220s are rated at 220W into 4 ohms, which Octave designer Andreas Hoffman feels is more than adequate for most loudspeakers. The MRE220's price is $23,700/pr.



Octave V 110 Integrated Amplifier





The new Octave V110 push-pull pentode integrated amplifier ($8300) from Germany, distributed by Dynaudio, is a KT120-based product whose protection circuit is described as “bullet proof.” To demonstrate what that means, speaker wire terminations on one of the channels were intentionally crossed; not only did nothing blow, but the left channel, which was properly connected to a loudspeaker, continued to play. The Octave V110 is thus the perfect amp for folks who use battery cables to jump-start their cars, and then celebrate by clapping both clamps together.

This is Octave’s second KT120-based design; the first, the RE 290, was recently reviewed in Stereophile by Erich Lichte. The V110 has five single-ended inputs and one balanced input, and an option for an internal phono board. Bias is fixed and easily monitored and fixed via the front panel. An Ecomode reduces heat and power consumption when the unit is on but not in use for over 9 minutes. Restart time is 35 seconds.

Michael Manousselis of Dynaudio says the amp excels in control of bass frequencies. Options include the Octave Black Box ($1200) and Super Black Box ($3500) capacitance modules, which increase power supply capacitance to stabilize current delivery, reduce impedance interaction, and optimize the relationship between amplifier and speaker.


T+A DAC 8 DAC/Pre



Priced at $3,250 and available now, the compact and sturdy DAC 8 features 4 coax SPDIF inputs, BNC, AES/EBU and USB all capable of handling 24/192 data. Both balanced and unbalanced outputs are available along with a small remote that can control input selection and volume.

T+A employs aggressive jitter management, multiple filter options, and runs eight 32 bit Burr Brown converters. All analog stages are fully discrete and I'm going to guess it sounds pretty good too.
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post #18425 of 19354
1/18/13 at 9:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynero View Post

Funny thing Dynefan is I've always wondered if in fact the soft dome tweeter had more distortion/breakup or grain than the Beryllium tweeters and it was this distortion that made it sound more organic to my ears biggrin.gif Much like tubes vs solid state, analog vs digital,etc.

Actually it is the lack of distortion the is one of the hallmarks of Dynaudio drivers that is appealing to your ears. Our soft dome tweeters are like to other, the proprietary coating(shiny stuff) on the surface of the tweeter keeps the soft dome from breaking up at higher volumes, combine that with the control of the magnet over the entire excursion and you have no distortion and no compression. End result is that our speakers sound the same at high volumes as they do at lower volumes.
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post #18426 of 19354
1/18/13 at 9:46am
CEs has kept me out of the loop the last couple of weeks but honestly there some conversations that just made me ill. Looks like things might be back on track and I would like to make myself available for any and all Dynaudio discussions, just in case we need to set anything straight.wink.gif
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post #18427 of 19354
1/18/13 at 2:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynlunatic View Post

Actually it is the lack of distortion the is one of the hallmarks of Dynaudio drivers that is appealing to your ears. Our soft dome tweeters are like to other, the proprietary coating(shiny stuff) on the surface of the tweeter keeps the soft dome from breaking up at higher volumes, combine that with the control of the magnet over the entire excursion and you have no distortion and no compression. End result is that our speakers sound the same at high volumes as they do at lower volumes.

The drivers are 90% of the reason why I bought Dynaudio speakers.
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post #18428 of 19354
1/18/13 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamhead View Post

The drivers are 90% of the reason why I bought Dynaudio speakers.
What was the other 10%?
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post #18429 of 19354
1/18/13 at 4:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post

What was the other 10%?
The beautiful cabinets, of course. smile.gif
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post #18430 of 19354
1/18/13 at 6:56pm
If you're interested I had another listening session with the Focus 160's. I currently have the usher be-718s. I have really enjoyed the ushers but couldn't forget the focus 160's. it was the natural tweeter that I kept thinking about. So I had to have another listen.

I listened to them with a simaudio 60watt amp first then a 275 Mcintosh tube amp followed by a Unico Primo hybrid (75watt). I spent 2 hrs at the shop listening.

Right away I heard the sweetness in the tweeter that I remembered from my first listen prior to my Ushers. I got excited about that special quality of 160's. I could sense myself wanting to come to the conclusion that I preferred the dynaudio's. But as you know without comparing everything side by side it can be difficult. So I decided to invest more listening time.

There is definitely a magical element to the 160's. I believe I lies in the midrange. A natural quality to the voices and instruments.

When I got home I immediately started listening to my Ushers. Now I must confess they are being powered by a harmon kardon avr120. I know, I know. But that's what I'm dealing with. My source is lossless>appletv>rega dac.

Ive been listening for a couple of hours. I was pleasantly surprised. I found the sweetness or natural quality that I attributed the 160's with wasn't quite there on the ushers, but it was pretty close. Much closer then I thought at least.

But it's the ushers ability to separate the instruments that first got my attention. The detail without harshness is another quality. I'm very sensitive to harshness, I'm definitely not someone who's a fan of "bright" speakers. In fact I get a bit of fatigue from my ushers but not any less with the dynaudio's.

The bass of the ushers are much better. They are a bigger speaker so it makes sense. I find I hear frequencies that I did not on the 160's. The "airiness" was better on the ushers. More dynamic in my opinion as well. The soundstage is also better on the ushers. This is all with my harmon kardon. So that's got to say something too.

The ushers have their own "magical" quality as well. The 160's win in the natural midrange but not as much as I thought. Then from there it's all usher. O and I haven't even mentioned the look of the speakers. I really love the design of the Usher be-718's. gorgeous.

I'm going to pair the ushers with a tube amp to get even more warmth and airiness which complements my taste.

Of course this is all my personal opinion and at the end of the day you got to go with what you hear and try your best to listen to equipment for an extended period. One thing I think is unanimous is that both speakers have an unexplainable magical quality about them.

For now I'll enjoy my ushers and maybe in the future I'll consider a dynaudio that's a step up from the 160. These ushers are truly hitting out of its price range.

Hope to still be "accepted" in this dynaudio forum as I've been enjoying the community lol.
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post #18431 of 19354
1/19/13 at 2:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gn77b View Post

that is the input picking up mains hum and other electromagnetic cr@p, it will happen with any amp in existence.

My 4" studio monitor hivi x4 (something like Genelec 8020) has a much lower noise level, I assume the bigger the size, the louder the humming noise, this applies to a quite high-end build like BM12A?

If it's not because BM12A's noise is so notieable even without audio cables plugged in, I would never have tried to listen to my X4's noise level and the noise on X4 is only audible within 10cm, after 30cm it is totally nonexistent. Guess a bigger amp means bigger noise.
Edited by kanonathena - 1/19/13 at 3:08am
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post #18432 of 19354
1/19/13 at 7:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by deetothevee View Post

If you're interested I had another listening session with the Focus 160's. I currently have the usher be-718s. I have really enjoyed the ushers but couldn't forget the focus 160's. it was the natural tweeter that I kept thinking about. So I had to have another listen.

I listened to them with a simaudio 60watt amp first then a 275 Mcintosh tube amp followed by a Unico Primo hybrid (75watt). I spent 2 hrs at the shop listening.

Right away I heard the sweetness in the tweeter that I remembered from my first listen prior to my Ushers. I got excited about that special quality of 160's. I could sense myself wanting to come to the conclusion that I preferred the dynaudio's. But as you know without comparing everything side by side it can be difficult. So I decided to invest more listening time.

There is definitely a magical element to the 160's. I believe I lies in the midrange. A natural quality to the voices and instruments.

When I got home I immediately started listening to my Ushers. Now I must confess they are being powered by a harmon kardon avr120. I know, I know. But that's what I'm dealing with. My source is lossless>appletv>rega dac.

Ive been listening for a couple of hours. I was pleasantly surprised. I found the sweetness or natural quality that I attributed the 160's with wasn't quite there on the ushers, but it was pretty close. Much closer then I thought at least.

But it's the ushers ability to separate the instruments that first got my attention. The detail without harshness is another quality. I'm very sensitive to harshness, I'm definitely not someone who's a fan of "bright" speakers. In fact I get a bit of fatigue from my ushers but not any less with the dynaudio's.

The bass of the ushers are much better. They are a bigger speaker so it makes sense. I find I hear frequencies that I did not on the 160's. The "airiness" was better on the ushers. More dynamic in my opinion as well. The soundstage is also better on the ushers. This is all with my harmon kardon. So that's got to say something too.

The ushers have their own "magical" quality as well. The 160's win in the natural midrange but not as much as I thought. Then from there it's all usher. O and I haven't even mentioned the look of the speakers. I really love the design of the Usher be-718's. gorgeous.

I'm going to pair the ushers with a tube amp to get even more warmth and airiness which complements my taste.

Of course this is all my personal opinion and at the end of the day you got to go with what you hear and try your best to listen to equipment for an extended period. One thing I think is unanimous is that both speakers have an unexplainable magical quality about them.

For now I'll enjoy my ushers and maybe in the future I'll consider a dynaudio that's a step up from the 160. These ushers are truly hitting out of its price range.

Hope to still be "accepted" in this dynaudio forum as I've been enjoying the community lol.
What would be interesting is to bring the Usher with you to compare side by side. Granted its' a different room and electronics but you should be able to really hear the differences without having to 'remember' the differences. smile.gif
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post #18433 of 19354
1/19/13 at 7:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanonathena View Post

My 4" studio monitor hivi x4 (something like Genelec 8020) has a much lower noise level, I assume the bigger the size, the louder the humming noise, this applies to a quite high-end build like BM12A?

If it's not because BM12A's noise is so notieable even without audio cables plugged in, I would never have tried to listen to my X4's noise level and the noise on X4 is only audible within 10cm, after 30cm it is totally nonexistent. Guess a bigger amp means bigger noise.
the noise level with the input cable unplugged is the last thing I'd worry about. the level depends on speaker sensitivity, amp input impedance and other things beyond your control.
what you initially described seems to be distortion after all, not noise. are you hearing noise with cables plugged in and no music? this is not clear to me from your initial description.
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post #18434 of 19354
1/19/13 at 7:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by deetothevee View Post

...
oh, the blasphemy!
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post #18435 of 19354
1/19/13 at 8:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by deetothevee View Post

If you're interested I had another listening session with the Focus 160's. I currently have the usher be-718s. I have really enjoyed the ushers but couldn't forget the focus 160's. it was the natural tweeter that I kept thinking about. So I had to have another listen.

I listened to them with a simaudio 60watt amp first then a 275 Mcintosh tube amp followed by a Unico Primo hybrid (75watt). I spent 2 hrs at the shop listening.

Right away I heard the sweetness in the tweeter that I remembered from my first listen prior to my Ushers. I got excited about that special quality of 160's. I could sense myself wanting to come to the conclusion that I preferred the dynaudio's. But as you know without comparing everything side by side it can be difficult. So I decided to invest more listening time.

There is definitely a magical element to the 160's. I believe I lies in the midrange. A natural quality to the voices and instruments.

When I got home I immediately started listening to my Ushers. Now I must confess they are being powered by a harmon kardon avr120. I know, I know. But that's what I'm dealing with. My source is lossless>appletv>rega dac.

Ive been listening for a couple of hours. I was pleasantly surprised. I found the sweetness or natural quality that I attributed the 160's with wasn't quite there on the ushers, but it was pretty close. Much closer then I thought at least.

But it's the ushers ability to separate the instruments that first got my attention. The detail without harshness is another quality. I'm very sensitive to harshness, I'm definitely not someone who's a fan of "bright" speakers. In fact I get a bit of fatigue from my ushers but not any less with the dynaudio's.

The bass of the ushers are much better. They are a bigger speaker so it makes sense. I find I hear frequencies that I did not on the 160's. The "airiness" was better on the ushers. More dynamic in my opinion as well. The soundstage is also better on the ushers. This is all with my harmon kardon. So that's got to say something too.

The ushers have their own "magical" quality as well. The 160's win in the natural midrange but not as much as I thought. Then from there it's all usher. O and I haven't even mentioned the look of the speakers. I really love the design of the Usher be-718's. gorgeous.

I'm going to pair the ushers with a tube amp to get even more warmth and airiness which complements my taste.

Of course this is all my personal opinion and at the end of the day you got to go with what you hear and try your best to listen to equipment for an extended period. One thing I think is unanimous is that both speakers have an unexplainable magical quality about them.

For now I'll enjoy my ushers and maybe in the future I'll consider a dynaudio that's a step up from the 160. These ushers are truly hitting out of its price range.

Hope to still be "accepted" in this dynaudio forum as I've been enjoying the community lol.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think there are qualities of each speaker that we can like. There was quite a bit I did like about the usher when I listened to it myself and am glad you are happy with them. I would also encourage you to compare a contour S1.4 and see if the gap narrows? I liked a lot about my 140's but found the gap to the 1.4 too much to say the 140 was enough speaker. I will say that I tend to buy speakers on the used market and spend time with them in my home side by side with the other competing model. This is just a short term tie up of funds as if you buy right you can resell and loose very little $ and in most cases break even. At one point I had Contour 1.3MKII's, Focus 140's, as well as Contour S1.4's with 3 sets of stand 2's in my room. I should have sold all of them and bought the C1's but the 1.4's have been keeping me happy for some years now and I am still discovering how to get more out of them! Keep us posted on your journey for sure!
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post #18436 of 19354
1/19/13 at 9:49am
Jax
What's up with this? First the S25's now these, eek.gif
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-dynaudio-focus-340-new-model-mint-like-new-l-k-2013-01-19-speakers-76131-fort-worth-tx
Sticking with Dyn or going off in another direction?
George
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post #18437 of 19354
1/19/13 at 9:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post

Jax
What's up with this? First the S25's now these, eek.gif
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-dynaudio-focus-340-new-model-mint-like-new-l-k-2013-01-19-speakers-76131-fort-worth-tx
Sticking with Dyn or going off in another direction?
George

Dang, Jax is tempting me, since I am in driving range to pick those babies up!

I wonder how much more better they would be than my Audience 82s? And in what areas?
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post #18438 of 19354
1/19/13 at 10:28am
I
Quote:
Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post

What would be interesting is to bring the Usher with you to compare side by side. Granted its' a different room and electronics but you should be able to really hear the differences without having to 'remember' the differences. smile.gif

I definitely agree! One thing I learned with hifi is nothing will be perfect. As with all of life actually.
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post #18439 of 19354
1/19/13 at 10:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynfan View Post

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think there are qualities of each speaker that we can like. There was quite a bit I did like about the usher when I listened to it myself and am glad you are happy with them. I would also encourage you to compare a contour S1.4 and see if the gap narrows? I liked a lot about my 140's but found the gap to the 1.4 too much to say the 140 was enough speaker. I will say that I tend to buy speakers on the used market and spend time with them in my home side by side with the other competing model. This is just a short term tie up of funds as if you buy right you can resell and loose very little $ and in most cases break even. At one point I had Contour 1.3MKII's, Focus 140's, as well as Contour S1.4's with 3 sets of stand 2's in my room. I should have sold all of them and bought the C1's but the 1.4's have been keeping me happy for some years now and I am still discovering how to get more out of them! Keep us posted on your journey for sure!

Thanks. I agree. I have had the ushers for a couple of months and definitely would love to have had the focus 160s alongside. I was looking for a used pair with no luck. I have my limits to how deep I get into it. It's definitely been fun.
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post #18440 of 19354
1/19/13 at 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

Dang, Jax is tempting me, since I am in driving range to pick those babies up!

I wonder how much more better they would be than my Audience 82s? And in what areas?
Offhand, I think they would slaughter your Audience 82s, in just about every way.

I would consider them as a potential upgrade to my Contour S3.4s.
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post #18441 of 19354
1/19/13 at 11:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceTripper View Post

Offhand, I think they would slaughter your Audience 82s, in just about every way.

I would consider them as a potential upgrade to my Contour S3.4s.

Probably so, with the possible exception of bass extension. The 82s have a bit bigger box, weigh 60 pounds, and are rated down to 26Hz, while the 340s weigh 51 pounds, and are rated down to 32Hz. But I will say, since I only paid $1200 for the mint 82s, I think I got a good value!
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post #18442 of 19354
1/19/13 at 11:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

Probably so, with the possible exception of bass extension. The 82s have a bit bigger box, weigh 60 pounds, and are rated down to 26Hz, while the 340s weigh 51 pounds, and are rated down to 32Hz. But I will say, since I only paid $1200 for the mint 82s, I think I got a good value!
I'd say that's a good point.

I would like a speaker with a dedicated midrange, but I would miss the Esotar2 I put in my Contours.
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post #18443 of 19354
1/19/13 at 12:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

Dang, Jax is tempting me, since I am in driving range to pick those babies up!

I wonder how much more better they would be than my Audience 82s? And in what areas?

$4600 for Dyn Thread people. Off Audiogon of course.
Edited by jaxwired - 1/19/13 at 12:26pm
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post #18444 of 19354
1/19/13 at 12:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post

Jax
What's up with this? First the S25's now these, eek.gif
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-dynaudio-focus-340-new-model-mint-like-new-l-k-2013-01-19-speakers-76131-fort-worth-tx
Sticking with Dyn or going off in another direction?
George

Hi George. Well, I've got a chance to buy some PMC IB2s at a bargain price. Can't resist.

I love the Dynaudio 340. I've very picky and I've sold lots of speakers after a couple weeks due to weaknesses. These 340s have none. I've had them for 6 months. Only the PMCs (or next gen contours) could move me off them...

Here's my video of them playing for anyone interested: Clicky
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post #18445 of 19354
1/19/13 at 2:38pm
Hi again,

After your advice on amps I drove all the way to Germany to audition the Naim Nait & Excite X36 combo. The outcome is a big hole in my bank account... biggrin.gif

The store I visited didn't have the Nait 5i available, so I auditioned the Nait XS. I also compared it with Rotel RA12, Marantz PM 15S2 and Denon 1510AE. Rotel and Marantz were a bit warmer, but they were really struggling to give out any meaningful power to the speakers. Denon was quite powerful and much better than Rotel and Marantz, but was still lacking some clarity compared to the Nait. So Naim XS it is in the end! I've ordered speakers & amp and hopefully they will arrive soon!

The trouble is however that I need a DAC as well, as my source will be a small HTPC which will join the family soon (I am leaning towards Lenovo Q190). The budget is long overspent, so something decent and cheap should suffice for now. Two options are the Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100 and Arcam rdac. Does anyone have any experience between the two, or can suggest something similar? (No NAIM DACs for now please!! biggrin.gif )

Thanks in advance to all.

PS: One annoying thing during the audition is some hissing noise from the tweeter, especially in loud volumes and quiet songs / pauses. In the end that's not what I would listen to, but it would definitely be annoying if I were a classic piano type. Any ideas for possible countermeasures?
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post #18446 of 19354
1/19/13 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sihctr View Post

...

PS: One annoying thing during the audition is some hissing noise from the tweeter, especially in loud volumes and quiet songs / pauses. In the end that's not what I would listen to, but it would definitely be annoying if I were a classic piano type. Any ideas for possible countermeasures?
Offhand, they might have had a ground or RFI problem. My Naim/Dyn system is quiet. I can only hear a slight hissing if I put my ear within less than a foot of the tweeter. At listening position it is dead quiet. The ambient noise of the house is louder.
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post #18447 of 19354
1/19/13 at 3:08pm
I don't have any issues with my naim/Dyn combo as far as noise is concerned. I had the rdac and it was good, I switched to a tube dac which I feel added more to the soundstage and overall feel. I have heard the XS/rdac combo with dyns before used on a Mac mini and it sounded excellent. I have no experience with the dac magic.
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post #18448 of 19354
1/19/13 at 4:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gn77b View Post

the noise level with the input cable unplugged is the last thing I'd worry about. the level depends on speaker sensitivity, amp input impedance and other things beyond your control.
what you initially described seems to be distortion after all, not noise. are you hearing noise with cables plugged in and no music? this is not clear to me from your initial description.

There is a humming noise without cables plugged in, I am asking about this right now, because the BM12A I bought is an used one, so I worry about if this humming noise noticeable within 30cm is a quality problem (from both speakers).

Another kind of noise is when you plug in the audio cable and connect to DAC playing music, this noise is so loud it is very annoying even 1 m away, from what I gather from the manufacturer, it is because the DAC I use has a 4.5 volt RMS output signal which BM12A doesn't seem to support.
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post #18449 of 19354
1/19/13 at 5:29pm
Thought I'd pop in and say I'm selling off my confidence center II if anyone is interested.
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post #18450 of 19354
1/21/13 at 6:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxwired View Post

Hi George. Well, I've got a chance to buy some PMC IB2s at a bargain price. Can't resist.

I know what you mean, I've had the c4's for a year now and like them more than any other Dyne speaker I've had but at the same time I'd like to listen to a new pair to get a new perspective on music. I'd love to try Revel or a british brand.
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