Dynaudio Owner's Thread - Page 629

I just don't think you can go wrong with an XS. And if you want you can upgrade it later with a FlatCap XS and/or an external amp, like a NAP200.

My biggest concern is how is 60 watts better then 50? I really like the Nait 5i and its been great, but I don't know enough about naim to fully understand the way 10 watts makes that big of a difference? Ive only used one product. I want to trust my gut and go with the XS, but Im nervous, what if it doesnt make a difference.
Edited by callas01 - 3/23/13 at 6:30am

Sorry Dean let me re-phase it. Sim is only and all detail IMO. Not very musical and no PRat. Kind of like comparing a S25 to a C1. Both are excellent but very different just like Sim and Naim/Octave.

Your benefit isn't going to be in continuous power so much as it is in transient overhead and overall sound quality. The preamp section alone should make a big difference. When I went from my NAC202 to a 282 it was one of the biggest sound improvements I achieved with an upgrade.

OK. I get where you are coming from now. That was more or less my experience with the Sim. It was very good quality, but at the end of the day it just didn't stack up to the Naim in musicality.

my concern isnt the continuous power, its the big dynamic bursts that occur in classical that are causing the clipping issue. thats where Im wondering will the slight impovement in wattage = enough power to keep from clipping during those peaks.

How big is your room?

16*15, with the gear on the long wall, and Im 8 feet from the speakers. behind me is a built in bookshelf/cabinet about cabinets 3 feet beind me/bookshelf is 4 feet behind me, but its only half the length of the front wall, the other half is open to the 8x10 dining room.
Edited by callas01 - 3/23/13 at 9:21am

I can't give you the definitive answer, but I think the Nait XS and the Focus 160s will be really be pretty good for classical in your room. I got by with less, but also wanted more power. My original plan was to go with something along the lines of the Nait XS or 152/155 XS power-wise (NAP155 is also 60 WPC). I ended up with a 250-2 because a great deal came up on A'Gon one night when I was browsing.

My room is 11x17 and when I play large scale works like Mahler, Strauss, etc. the 250 barely gets luke warm. It has a 400 VA transformer where I believe the XS has a 300 VA. I think the Nait XS is close to 100 WPC @ 4 ohm. My 250 is closer to 140.
Edited by RaceTripper - 3/23/13 at 9:38am

from what naim says the nait 5i is 300 va and 50 @ 8, and approximately 75 @ 4(i read somewhere).

and naim says the XS is 380 va and 60 @ 8 and 90 @ 4

my 5i stays cool all the time, but its really only when i play gladiator that the amp is clipping. I only over heated the 5i once and that was when i had the oppo blu-ray player sitting directly on top of the 5i, since i have moved the tt to storage (wasnt using it because of a bad stylus and my son likes to touch(2-1/2)) so I put the oppo where the TT used to be. before and since, i have never had any issues with overheating or running overly warm.
Edited by callas01 - 3/23/13 at 9:46am

Callas, Naim has very good re-sale value. I would say...if you have the opportunity to try an XS(-2) at a good price, there'd be little risk in giving it a try-out.

audio is about how the brain processes the sound, EE is a different thing.

I am coming up on my one-year anniversary with my delightful X16s. Could I be catching some upgrade fever as spring approaches?

I keep reading so much about how well Dyn speakers pair with Naim Audio products, so I continue to lust after the NaimUniti 2. I estimate this to cost around $3-4K.

What other integrated amps are recommended in the same price class? Do better values exist for under $2K?

This would be coming from a HK 3490. This is a great value stereo receiver with digital inputs but I think my X16s could be better served. Digital (SPDIF inputs are required.)


Edit: I follow audigon quite closely enough to realize that few people part with their Naim products and that they do hold their value. They aren't a terrible investment...

I am also surprised to see how seldom the Excite speakers come up for sale there.

The Naim Uniti2 is more like $4500. It might still be a bit new to start seeing used units down in the $3K range, although it is possible. The UnitiLite is in the $3K MSRP range, but still a great value.

Don't quote me out of context. Here is the part of what I said, that relates to your snippet...

"I say tubes have that fat, "powerful" sound (well, "good" ones anyway)...without the gaudy numbers. I would think it has to be with the way they produce current.

I guess only a qualified EE (not the amateurs that sometimes skulk around here...lol) can speak to that..."

My premise, is that tubes can sound powerful...without the power numbers to back it up; and that comes from the difference, in how they produce their output...versus solid-state. How tubes produce power, versus solid-state...is not up for audiophile debate. It is a matter of circuits, and that is a subject for the "EEs".

Don't preach.

Again here is a link explaining the differences.
http://www.atma-sphere.com/Resources/Paradigms_in_Amplifier_Design.php
Short story is tubes keep a constant power out vs SS which varies with the impedance of the load (speaker).
Add to that the harmonics. which are more audible with solid state over tubes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tube_sound
Ok there is there is the technical differences.

That being said different strokes for different folks. As far as Dyn's they appreciate current. Some SS is better than others when it comes to current.

Until I can afford Burmester I'm sticking with toobz

I have no idea if it is better compared to other amps in the price range and I can't recommend what I haven't listened to. the amp I just bought sells for less than $400 used. it drives $6k Dyns and I'm more than happy with the sound. obviously there are better amps out there. I'd have a hard time believing you'd be less than happy with it though. OTOH, if you're upgrading the amp with the plan of doing the same with the speakers in the future you might want to buy a more expensive one. all the reviews I've read describe exactly what I am hearing in my living room and I don't think I've ever encountered many products that have so many unanimously positive reviews. I'm talking about the Audio Refinement Complete.
I'd be interested if someone heard it in comparison with similarly priced products from Naim of Simaudio.
Edited by gn77b - 3/24/13 at 2:30pm

GTA...why look at a Uniti2; do you need a CD player? A Tuner?? If you just want an IA, with digital inputs...there is plenty of competition.

At the cost of the Uniti2; I'm sorry, but I think the NAD M2 would smoke it. Also...while I'm not a fan of the styling; I've seen the Perreaux Audient 80i, and that's the kind of unit you seem to be looking for. 80/130...and it doesn't have some no-name DAC on board; it has an ESS Sabre chip (though not the top-of-the-line 9018). I think it's slightly over $3k, but I see deals to be had in the $2k range (new).

If you want to go on the super-cheap; the NuForce DDA-100 is an interesting unit. I have one in my office...and careful system matching is required; but it has a delightful sound. I wouldn't think to pair it with Focus up; but it might match nicely with the Excites. At $550...retail(!)...you almost can't lose money by trying it.

No I don't NEED a CD player/tuner. But I do need some digital inputs.

I wouldn't mind some cleaner power and more of it.

If possible I would prefer a brand/model that is known for producing more a warmer (less analytical) sound, perhaps emphasizing mid- and low-range.

Perhaps to refine my budget I wouldn't want to spend more than what a new pair of Focus160 would cost ($2900).

Well, you are where Im at. Here are the units im considering. Musical Fidelity M6i, Simaudio 340i, Naim Nait XS. Those are the one's Im looking at cause I have to have a HT bypass. You could also consider Exposure 3010S2, NAD M3, Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum, Marantz Reference PM-15S2, T+A E-series Power Plant MKII (if I didnt need a HTBP, this is exactly what I would own)

^^^ I believe GTA also wants a digital input, included with his IA.

Nait XS with an Arcam rDAC.

Can you guys please recommend an online retailer of Dynaudio who can organise shipping to South Africa? My local dealer is RIPPING me off big time. I honestly don't understand how the price can be more than three times what the overseas price is. Three times! If anyone can throw me a bone I would appreciate it.

I don't mind doing multiple components as such. I am just look for the best quality the aforementioned sum can buy that will provide the aforementioned desired result

I guess what I am saying is that if I am going to spend $2900 on additional amplification, I want the item(s) to be worth that. Naim seems to have a great rep but if I can get "Naim" sound through a DAC with an even better rep, then I'm all for it. I contrast this with what I've read about NAD products. They seem to have gone down a bit in quality over the years. So I've heard/read.

Besides Naim, what are some of the other "great" brands? What other ones are known to pair well with Dynaudio and provide a little warmer sound with a little more emphasis on the mids/bass?

GTA...why so rigid? Does it have to be $2900? Does it have to adhere, to what someone else thinks...is a warm, emphasis in the mid/bass?

There's an XS-2 on Audiogon right now, for $1875; why don't you try it? But...don't stop there. I mean, it'll be good...right? Do you think anyone every hooked up that kit, and said "OMG...awful!"...lol.

How good it is, can only be ascertained...by throwing all comers at it. Stop trying to find the "perfect" amp...before you've even heard it. Audiophile is a verb.

HA - You should have seen Nad in the late 80's - early 90's. The internal circuit bds were made from heavy cardboard. Talk about being unreliable!! But when they worked they did sound great with headroom like no other anywhere near it's price point.

Bryston B100sst used would be in your price range. 20 year warranty so even if you found one that was 5 years old you would still have FIFTEEN yrs of warranty left. If I remember right you have to have an original receipt from an authorized dealer to get warranty. I think they required that around 2005 or 2006. Before you didn't need the receipt. BTW I had one for 4 years. I was going to replace it with a Naim XS w/ps or Supernait. Now I had the XS w/ps in my home for 3 days at it bettered the Bryston sound in my opinion. Then I heard the Octave. It's in another league altogether. In both price and sound quality. Tubes are my thing. Especially when rolling tubes to change the sound if I get too used to a particular sound. That's another cost with tubes should you start to play. IMO it's less expensive than swapping amps - pre's or integrated's. Plus I can always go back. Hey I'm not trying to sell you on tubes but it is something to consider later on.

Like I said, if I didnt need a HTBP or if the unit had a HTBP then I would be all over the T+A Power Plant Integrated Amp. Dynaudio is the US distributor for these products so you know that the warranty and CS will be top notch. They power Dyns wonderfully, and sound amazing. For a dac, the rega dac would be good, so would the peachtree dac-it.

Naim is awesome as well, I really like Naim. The XS is the way to go IMO if youre going to get a Naim unit. the rdac with the XS is a good combination. the rdacs sliglty more forward presentation is offset by the XSs slightly warmer sound.

Why not just get an EQ?

I can't seem to find information on the XS2. Everything seems to lead me back to the XS. Are they two different models?