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Dynaudio Owner's Thread - Page 677

post #20281 of 21660
A pair of walnut C2s available for 5390€... good thing I've been paying off my loan and spending on other things (for the two combined, around twice that price, nuts in retrospect) rather than saving up, otherwise I might get crazy ideas tongue.gif
Edited by tvih - 9/29/13 at 4:36pm
post #20282 of 21660
Where? Is it this one?


http://www.dynaudio.com/int/home_loudspeaker_systems/confidence/confidence_c2.php
post #20283 of 21660
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxwired View Post

Sean, gorgeous!!!!! Did someone finally bite on the white sapphires.

Yes. I got what I was looking for. The interest/demand in speakers priced that high I don't think is very great right now. Especially used and the fact the Sapphires are getting a bit old age wise as far as speakers go imo. Honestly I wasn't actively looking to sell them, but I got what I wanted out of them so I figured I'd try something new. Which I'm glad I did because I'm enjoying the C2's more so.
post #20284 of 21660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynero View Post

Agree on the Sapphire being a love hate thing, when they sounded right, they were not just right but glorious, fantastic, mind-blowing but when they were wrong they were pretty bad.
I switched to the c4's and like you I found the c4 more listenable for hours on end and surprisingly they have higher resolution than the Sapphire despite the gentler treble ( although there are some recordings wherein I truly miss the Sapphire ). If I remember correctly the c2's were very slightly warmer than the c4's but the midrange was quite similar, the c2's also image extremely well for me much like the c4.

The Sapphires really seem dependent on the "source" to them. They can be very revealing but in almost too much of a good thing sort of way on some material. I have a 14x14 room, and the C4s I was told would be too much for it. Which after having the C2s for weeks now I don't feel I need more from my speaker other than pairing it up with better equipment.

Has anyone heard the Octave v40 (or v40se) with C2's?
post #20285 of 21660
Sitting on my couch in audio bliss listening to a mix of M83's "Hurry Up. We're Dreaming" album and various entries by The Naked and Famous.

I have been on a big M83 kick lately.
post #20286 of 21660
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTaudiophile View Post

Sitting on my couch in audio bliss listening to a mix of M83's "Hurry Up. We're Dreaming" album and various entries by The Naked and Famous.

I have been on a big M83 kick lately.

Ive had that M83 album for a while now. ive also had the naked and famous album for about as long. they have a new song/album thats just come out. i havent bought the new album but i have passive me aggressive you. Did you know that m83 did the music for the movie Oblivion with tom cruise?

Metric, the neighborhood(love this album), vampire weekend, XX(check out the self titled album XX, some good bass on a few tracks), the 1975, NONONO, Ms Mr, matt & kim, Kitten, hands, grouplove, the colourists, foals, daft punk, dan croll, capital cities(although theyre getting overplayed now), chvrches, blondefire, bad books, american authors, artic monkeys(love this album too), and alt-j are all on my list of frequently played bands. those are some you might want to check into.

i bought tickets to go see two door cinema club next month Ive been into them for some time, so the wife and i are gonna go see them. we listen to a lot of indie/alt-rock music.

Ive been playing a lot of the new daft punk cd lately.
post #20287 of 21660
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmf View Post

The Sapphires really seem dependent on the "source" to them. They can be very revealing but in almost too much of a good thing sort of way on some material. I have a 14x14 room, and the C4s I was told would be too much for it. Which after having the C2s for weeks now I don't feel I need more from my speaker other than pairing it up with better equipment.

Has anyone heard the Octave v40 (or v40se) with C2's?
I'm sure the V40se will work. I think the V70se will be a bit better especially with a black box or super black box. Also for SS the new Naim SuperNait2 might be a contender too. wink.gif
post #20288 of 21660
Regarding the discussion around the Octave V40SE, remember that it's the current that an amplifier can put out that's important, not power. IIRC, both Mick and Mike Manousselis of Dyn NA were driving their C1s with an Octave V40SE, and quite effectively. For the tube amplifier, the current is dependent on the design of the output transformer. In particular, the amount of current an amp can swing is very important. My C-J Premier 11A, for example, while only being a 70 watt amplifier, could swing very large amounts of current very quickly.

Just to put this into context, both Quad electrostatics and Manepans are notoriously difficult to drive loudspeakers, yet I've heard them both driven very effectively (and more importantly, quite beautifully) with a Quad Classic II putting out a massive 15 watts (actually, more like 11 than 15...)
post #20289 of 21660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post

Regarding the discussion around the Octave V40SE, remember that it's the current that an amplifier can put out that's important, not power. IIRC, both Mick and Mike Manousselis of Dyn NA were driving their C1s with an Octave V40SE, and quite effectively. For the tube amplifier, the current is dependent on the design of the output transformer. In particular, the amount of current an amp can swing is very important. My C-J Premier 11A, for example, while only being a 70 watt amplifier, could swing very large amounts of current very quickly.

Just to put this into context, both Quad electrostatics and Manepans are notoriously difficult to drive loudspeakers, yet I've heard them both driven very effectively (and more importantly, quite beautifully) with a Quad Classic II putting out a massive 15 watts (actually, more like 11 than 15...)

Listen...true that; I mean I'm not a complete idiot tongue.gif

And you always have to look at tube watts differently anyway. I mean, I don't even know all the whys behind it; just that, the 50wpc VSi-55...for example...sounded plenty powerful (and even my supposedly 10+10 Cayin M-6, doesn't run out of steam the way I've heard some higher-rated SS amps do) for my needs. That being said...re: the Octave; you can't explain away everything. It's not like I said...well, the Octave only has 40wpc into 4ohm, while Joe's Tube amp has 50 into 8. I know you guys are in defense of Octave...but Audio Research Corp; they make "pretty decent" kit as well, no? wink.gif

So all I was saying...is on paper; the VSi-60 looks like it has an edge to me, and I think the price is less too. Plus...I've had the distinct advantage, of hearing its predecessor...the VSi-55...and loving it! And then I also said, it wasn't fair to cast aspersions on the V40SE...without hearing it; so give me a break...lol

Speaking of current...I'm indulging, my l o n g intrigue, with the current king; class-A. I have a modest-priced (on the used market) Cayin 265Ai...that's built like a tank, and has the propulsion of a rocket! wink.gif (all the while, sounding as engaging and musical as...out of metaphors redface.gif)
post #20290 of 21660
Not to talk pixie dust but I have yet to get my naim XS to run outta steam either whether I'm blasting out music, rock or classical, or playing a movie like the new Star Trek Into Darkness, which has an incredibly big sounding special effects soundtrack.
post #20291 of 21660
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

Listen...true that; I mean I'm not a complete idiot tongue.gif

t's not like I said...well, the Octave only has 40wpc into 4ohm, while Joe's Tube amp has 50 into 8. I know you guys are in defense of Octave...but Audio Research Corp; they make "pretty decent" kit as well, no? wink.gif

So all I was saying...is on paper; the VSi-60 looks like it has an edge to me, and I think the price is less too. Plus...I've had the distinct advantage, of hearing its predecessor...the VSi-55...and loving it! And then I also said, it wasn't fair to cast aspersions on the V40SE...without hearing it; so give me a break...lol
Quote:
Yeah you know 1 Octave guy will chime in. First the Octave is pricey but built like a tank for years of listening. I've only heard 1 ARC amp and was extremely impressed. Not sure of the model but it 8 6550's in it and heated the room (25 X 30) in an hour (I mean I had to take of my jacket and started sweating). Fantastic winter amp LOL. That's when I decided I want an IA with only 4 output tubes. But it doesn't have all that tech stuff that Octave has. I personally decided I wanted the protection and eco features the Octave offered and I did pay the price. I would do it again if I could go back. Now in Sean's case he has C2's which is actually a pair of C1's in a single cabinet meaning double the drivers. Yes the V40se is plenty for the C1's. Since I've had the V40se - V70se and now the V110 I can tell you that with each step up you a bit more control in the music. Not earth shattering but for Sean and the C2's I think the V70se would be the best fit in the Octave lineup for the money.

That being said the MKII/Sig versions of the Confidence series sounds much better than the originals at low listening levels. So will the V40se work. It sure will until you want to listen past 85 - 90 db. Then you would be wishing you had at least the V70se. Black box or super black box would add even more to either. biggrin.gif

Last Arc is a great bang for the buck until you have an output tube 'arc over' or short out. Now you have the cost of shipping and the repair to deal with along withe the down time. To me that is well worth the higher cost of the Octave. BTW I have had 2 tubes 'arc over' and at least 1 with a dead short - Octave is still playing great music!!
post #20292 of 21660
Quote:
Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post

I'm sure the V40se will work. I think the V70se will be a bit better especially with a black box or super black box. Also for SS the new Naim SuperNait2 might be a contender too. wink.gif

I would like to respectfully disagree here, the Octave and Supernait may be adequate but I truly believe the Confidence series needs major power to sound their best unlike say the 3.4 or the Sapphire, mind you i haven't heard the Octave and Supernait but based on their power ratings you still need more oomph to get the Confidence series going.
post #20293 of 21660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynero View Post

I would like to respectfully disagree here, the Octave and Supernait may be adequate but I truly believe the Confidence series needs major power to sound their best unlike say the 3.4 or the Sapphire, mind you i haven't heard the Octave and Supernait but based on their power ratings you still need more oomph to get the Confidence series going.

Well, this is where the pixie dust comes in. NAIM watts aren't real watts. The 80 WPC SN2 is about 1000 WPC in normal terms smile.gif
post #20294 of 21660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynero View Post

I would like to respectfully disagree here, the Octave and Supernait may be adequate but I truly believe the Confidence series needs major power to sound their best unlike say the 3.4 or the Sapphire, mind you i haven't heard the Octave and Supernait but based on their power ratings you still need more oomph to get the Confidence series going.
I won't disagree (depending on the amp) but until you hear the Octave and/or Naim I think you will be surprised. The other thing unless you really crank them up you probably won't hear all that much of a difference. Are your C4's originals or the newer MKII/Sig? That will make a huge difference at listening levels from 70 - 85db. At 85 - 105 db you are correct regarding watts. Again I went from 200W of SS (per the Bryston factory spec sheet) to 70W with the V70SE and the Octave had much more control over the music. Now maybe if I could afford a Burmester - Dartzeel - Soulution - Goldmund etc I might be singing a different tune regarding watts. biggrin.gif
post #20295 of 21660
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTaudiophile View Post

Well, this is where the pixie dust comes in. NAIM watts aren't real watts. The 80 WPC SN2 is about 1000 WPC in normal terms smile.gif
Ha - realistically 200 - 300W is more honest. wink.gif But it does depend on the amp.
post #20296 of 21660
i listen to music in the 85-95 db range quite often and never seem to have any issues with needing more power. And when i watch a movie, its pretty damn loud, no issues there either.
post #20297 of 21660
Quote:
Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post

I won't disagree (depending on the amp) but until you hear the Octave and/or Naim I think you will be surprised.

Fair enough, and yes my comments were directed to the 1st gen Confidence models:D
post #20298 of 21660
Quote:
Originally Posted by callas01 View Post

95 db
eek.gif Are you trying to go deaf?
post #20299 of 21660
Quote:
Originally Posted by lulimet View Post

eek.gif Are you trying to go deaf?

I don't do it all the time. But sometimes it's good to rock out.
post #20300 of 21660
There was a review of the older c2 model that I came across a few days ago. It said something like 40 watts are needed for 3 meters away. Which is about the distance I sit back from. Plus knowing Octave performs better than its watts indicate (I use to own the Octave V70/black box with Sapphires) I have no doubt that an Octave v40se with a black box or super black box would suit me fine. I am however not quite in the market to get my 2 channel setup going. I have a greater need for an avr and projector. I am also selling my contour sc center on agon if anyone is interested. I'm not quite certain I'll be using the c2s for home theater down the road. I might go a different route and leave the c2's just for music.
post #20301 of 21660
Quote:
Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post

Last Arc is a great bang for the buck until you have an output tube 'arc over' or short out. Now you have the cost of shipping and the repair to deal with along withe the down time. To me that is well worth the higher cost of the Octave. BTW I have had 2 tubes 'arc over' and at least 1 with a dead short - Octave is still playing great music!!

Well...and listen; this is no longer an ARC vs. Octave thought. I haven't heard Octave, so I can only comment from afar. But I wonder...does all that "tech", come at a cost? For example...I have just been reading about how AutoBias; while a sweet, sweet feature...AFAIC. Reduces current available.

I just wonder how Octave can do this tube "protection thing"; and ARC...nor hardly any other manufacturer, seems to figure it out? Maybe it's a conscious design choice? Maybe that's why the power ratings...albeit on paper...are so low?

Now, you say...I get the protection, and enough power too; great...sounds like the right unit for you. There just has to be a reason, no one else employs it (if they don't...do you guys know of another maker that does so?). Either it costs performance...or it costs too much of the green stuff.
post #20302 of 21660
My cousin is selling his silver Octave v80 with Super Black Box quite cheap. I'm happy to pass along any interested buyers.
post #20303 of 21660
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

Well...and listen; this is no longer an ARC vs. Octave thought. I haven't heard Octave, so I can only comment from afar. But I wonder...does all that "tech", come at a cost? For example...I have just been reading about how AutoBias; while a sweet, sweet feature...AFAIC. Reduces current available.

I just wonder how Octave can do this tube "protection thing"; and ARC...nor hardly any other manufacturer, seems to figure it out? Maybe it's a conscious design choice? Maybe that's why the power ratings...albeit on paper...are so low?

Now, you say...I get the protection, and enough power too; great...sounds like the right unit for you. There just has to be a reason, no one else employs it (if they don't...do you guys know of another maker that does so?). Either it costs performance...or it costs too much of the green stuff.
You better believe the protection mode comes with a price. Just like the Benz that will apply the brakes before you might be able to react to avoid an accident. Yes the Octave is also one the more expensive push pull units on the market. As far as autobias I thought very hard about that until a couple of tube dealers mentioned you really need well matched pairs/quads etc. Also all Octave amps/IA's have the option of added power supply capacitance for even greater headroom and a lower noise floor. I have not seen any other current production units offer that either. I was just pointing out that the Octave has some unique features and you will pay for them should anyone decide those are important. To me they are very important. biggrin.gif Octave has been building/designing amps for well over 20 yrs (just not available in the USA until recently 3-4 yrs).
http://octave.de/en/htdocs/philo/philo.php
Again CD I am just pointing these features and again these are very important to me.
post #20304 of 21660
Hi all,

Sorry for the plug. I am going back and forth on this but figured I would see if any interest here before I go to Audiogon. I am seriously considering on selling my original Confidence Center speaker that I love more than most things I own.

My pops is ill and has been forced into an expensive nursing home. I have drained as much of my personal savings as I safely can and just can't afford more loans. It's tough when the folks get old and they are not prepared for it or don't have much savings. Doing the best I can to help but after 8 months of monthly payments it's taking its toll on me.

I hate to do this and have even considered parting with my C1s but just not on board with that yet. I think I can get by with a phantom center for now with the C1s but I love this center so much.

Piano black in perfect condition.

Send a message if some interest. I have already placed an extra sub I had, a REL B2 from storage and Rega Saturn up on Audiogon. For CDP I can use my Cambridge Audio universal for now. I am just nervous about my center and or C1s and thought I would start here. C1s maybe and that's a big maybe. The center I can discuss.

Thanks
Rick
post #20305 of 21660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.SoftDome View Post

Hi all,

Sorry for the plug. I am going back and forth on this but figured I would see if any interest here before I go to Audiogon. I am seriously considering on selling my original Confidence Center speaker that I love more than most things I own.

My pops is ill and has been forced into an expensive nursing home. I have drained as much of my personal savings as I safely can and just can't afford more loans. It's tough when the folks get old and they are not prepared for it or don't have much savings. Doing the best I can to help but after 8 months of monthly payments it's taking its toll on me.

I hate to do this and have even considered parting with my C1s but just not on board with that yet. I think I can get by with a phantom center for now with the C1s but I love this center so much.

Piano black in perfect condition.

Send a message if some interest. I have already placed an extra sub I had, a REL B2 from storage and Rega Saturn up on Audiogon. For CDP I can use my Cambridge Audio universal for now. I am just nervous about my center and or C1s and thought I would start here. C1s maybe and that's a big maybe. The center I can discuss.

Thanks
Rick

So sorry to read this on so many levels. First, I wish your dad and family well. Second, good luck with the sale.

I have the feeling that stories like yours are but the tip of the tip of the tip of the iceberg as more Boomers retire.

Let it be a lesson to all of us in our low-30s...and younger...invest smartly, avoid unhealthy debt, and save as much as you can...
post #20306 of 21660
Thanks GT,

Didn't mean to be a downer but thanks. Yeah, being an only child sure puts some pressure on. And yes, my dad didn't make the right moves after two divorces but that doesn't matter now.

I think I will move forward with throwing the Confidence Center on Audiogon tomorrow. I hope someone might be looking for a great center. I may need to order a new box from Mick.

Thanks
Rick
post #20307 of 21660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.SoftDome View Post

Thanks GT,

Didn't mean to be a downer but thanks. Yeah, being an only child sure puts some pressure on. And yes, my dad didn't make the right moves after two divorces but that doesn't matter now.

I think I will move forward with throwing the Confidence Center on Audiogon tomorrow. I hope someone might be looking for a great center. I may need to order a new box from Mick.

Thanks
Rick

My sympathies as well Rick, don't worry, things will get better in time, just keep afloat till then.
post #20308 of 21660
According to Dynaudio FB posts, the New Excite series is appearing in dealers as of today.
post #20309 of 21660
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

Listen...true that; I mean I'm not a complete idiot tongue.gif

And you always have to look at tube watts differently anyway. I mean, I don't even know all the whys behind it; just that, the 50wpc VSi-55...for example...sounded plenty powerful (and even my supposedly 10+10 Cayin M-6, doesn't run out of steam the way I've heard some higher-rated SS amps do) for my needs. That being said...re: the Octave; you can't explain away everything. It's not like I said...well, the Octave only has 40wpc into 4ohm, while Joe's Tube amp has 50 into 8. I know you guys are in defense of Octave...but Audio Research Corp; they make "pretty decent" kit as well, no? wink.gif

No one was saying or implying you were, CD.

And, it's not tube watts that are different; watts are watts; looking at them differently isn't relevant. It's the ability to swing current that's relevant. The reason that tube amps of lower power can drive difficult speaker loads effectively is the current output from their transfomers, not because tube watts are *different*.
post #20310 of 21660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post

No one was saying or implying you were, CD.

And, it's not tube watts that are different; watts are watts; looking at them differently isn't relevant. It's the ability to swing current that's relevant. The reason that tube amps of lower power can drive difficult speaker loads effectively is the current output from their transfomers, not because tube watts are *different*.
Great answer PC and thanks for the help but I will add that tubes sound different from SS based on the even and odd harmonics. I prefer tubes for the $$ spent regardless of brand. wink.gif until you get into super high priced SS like Buremester and beyond.
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