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post #61 of 76
I'm not sure I understand why you could not build your own HDMI matrix. Can't you just have an hdcp compliant spiltter for each source and an hdcp compliant switch for each zone?

So, for a 4x8 you would have 4 1x8 hdmi splitters and 8, 4 input switches.

What am I missing here?
post #62 of 76
What you are missing in that plan is the HDCP compliant splitter. They don't exist yet.
Gefen will have a 4x4 HDMI matrix (not yet shipping), with a price tag of $2K. I think it does HDCP.

As a secondary issue, in a mutli-room application, the cable runs are typically very long, 50-200 feet is common. HDMI cables are expensive at that length and performance is dicey. There are extenders and fiber optic solutions that may get you the distance. However if you add up the cabling cost to run 4 rooms in a 2500 sq. ft. home, plus the matrix, it will make component video look more and more attractive.

Component video works, it's well understood, and there are many different kinds of solutions for many different applications. For people in the business of installation, it makes good business sense too. When digital video, in whatever form, becomes as easy and reliable as analog component, I bet we can convince Big Papa to start installing it for multi-room HD. ;)
post #63 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonfigleo
I'm not sure I understand why you could not build your own HDMI matrix. Can't you just have an hdcp compliant spiltter for each source and an hdcp compliant switch for each zone?

So, for a 4x8 you would have 4 1x8 hdmi splitters and 8, 4 input switches.

What am I missing here?
Theoretically, you could do this. Yet, if you're talking matrix (one source playing to two or more zones at the same time) then your system likely won't work. You have to make sure all recieving devices are full HDMI compliant, your switches will have to be able to split the signal multiple directions, and you have to find switches and DA's that can control signal path between inputs and outputs.

So, yeah, you could do it. But, can you?
post #64 of 76
Quote:
When digital video, in whatever form, becomes as easy and reliable as analog component, I bet we can convince Big Papa to start installing it for multi-room HD.
You won't have to convince me, I'll already be doing it. Sho 'nuff bruddah.

Cable length issues are another aspect that we haven't discussed here in the thread, and in a 2500SF home, you can have several runs at 150 feet, and in some instances more.
post #65 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by v1rtu0s1ty
What about the speaker wirings? Does it start from the headend to each room or just within the room terminated to a wall plate? What if I want a 5.1 setup in master bedroom, what is the configuration now?
Hello.

Sorry for the delay in responding, but I didn't want to continue to post using my personal name on this forum without identifying who I work for - Audio Authority. It wasn't my intent to deceive, which is why we are officially maintaining this name now.

In response to your question, in the wallplate configurations, you would run your 5.1 source (say a DVD player) from the 1166/76 system to the wallpate, then plug a surround receiver into the digital audio output from the wallplate. That way, you just have a receiver, with all the sound controls and that in your room, with your source elsewhere.

Video, of course, can be served to the same wallplate. Purchasing an IR receiver and plugging it into the wallplate will allow remote selection of different sources.
post #66 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleJohnny
Bigpapa,

As far as component video over cat5, any products / baluns that you would recommend? (Would prefer digital audio as well)
I know the question was not directed my way, but please allow me to respond :) .

My company, Audio Authority, has quite a few Cat-5 distribution products. The consumer models can be viewed on our website, under Residential Products. Look at the next post for the link, please.

Two pieces that jump out to me for your potential application would be the 1166/76 matrix switching system, which allows up to 6 HD inputs, and 6 outputs over a pair of Cat-5 cables. These terminate at the Model 9878 wallplate, and provide component video, analog audio, and digital audio.

Also, if you just have one source to distribute, you can use the 9870 system, which is a 9871 Cat-5 driver that converts video and audio signals into the Cat-5 format, and runs them to two 9878 wallplates.

If you have questions about the product, it's really easier to explain over the phone, so feel free to give us a call at 1-800-322-8346. My extension is 122.
post #67 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynn29
It looks like the wiring is all figured out. Using Cat5 is probably the best solution if your budget can support it. I am building a new home now. My current plan is to run 2 cat5's (thinking about doing cat6 actually), and 1 coax to 10 different TV locations. Then I want to use the new box (1166) from Audio Authority to route all of the video.

Now, how the heck am I going to control this thing intelligently. I could have up to 6 sources, so how can the system be setup so that if TV1 is watching source 1, and TV2 is watching source 2, if someone turns on TV3, it would automatically go to source 3 (obviously, some custom logic would need to be applied to separate satellite from DVD sources, etc., but let's forget about that for a moment to simplify things). Then the remote or whatever at the location of TV3 needs to switch to send signals to source 3 so they don't inadvertently change channels on another source.

Does anything exist that would control all of that? I am looking at Control4 products, can they handle this?
Hello.

I'm glad to see you're interested in our Audio Authority products. As far as using the 1166 for your system, since you're wanting to run signal to different rooms, you should add the 1176 Cat-5 Matrix Adaptor to the 1166...basically, using those two pieces together allows you to have those six different inputs sent to six different TVs, and each TV could potentially watch a different input.

Control of that system would be through the Cat-5 wallplates that terminate the Cat-5 run...the model 9878. They have IR inputs on each wallplate, so adding a simple IR receiver can allow discrete input selection remotely, without affecting what everybody else is watching.

All this is more clear when actually looking at the products: www.AudioAuthority.com

We are also working on an IR blaster system to make changing channels on the appropriate cable/satellite box more simple. That's coming down the pipe soon.

If you have more questions, please don't hesitate to contact us at 1-800-322-8346. My extension is 122.
post #68 of 76
Trent,

How does the 1166 handle HDCP? I have seen some units that require the first display to always be ON in order for the system to work.

Also, how does it handle forwarding different resolution signals to different capability displays?

Steve
post #69 of 76
From reading the specs on this and this I was under the impression that what you say I need already exists.

I'm glad I stumbled on this thread or would have just bought them thinking my plan was flawless.

Can you please explain why these won't work? They both claim to be "fully hdcp" compliant.

Thanks
post #70 of 76
Looks like it might work. I would recommend calling them and explaining your system goals, and let us know what they say.
post #71 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonfigleo
From reading the specs on this and this I was under the impression that what you say I need already exists.

I'm glad I stumbled on this thread or would have just bought them thinking my plan was flawless.

Can you please explain why these won't work? They both claim to be "fully hdcp" compliant.

Thanks
It's possible to make these work as a matrix distribution system. There are a couple of hurdles;

The 1x8 DA needs to have one device on to provide handshaking (see the note about output 1 being the main display). If this doesn't happen, no signal will exit the DA. One of the switches need to provide the handshake so the signal is always passed. You need to make sure that handshaking is provided so signal is always passed. So beyond just HDCP compliance, you need to make sure that signal will always be passed; handshaking is one of the most difficult issues with HDMI, and one of the challenges of matrix distribution.

To control the various 4x1's, you'll need either a 232 circuit or a segregated IR emitter/system for each 4x1. This can be difficult and time consuming to program, and really difficult for a DIYer with IR.

Parts for these components are $900 for each source and $400 for each display. Depending on design, this could be as much if not more than a component distribution system. It better work flawlessly. For this kind of money, you're almost into a brand new Extron switch, which does work flawlessly and will be much easier to control than multiple switches.

Native resolution issues; all displays need to have the same resolution, otherwise you'll have some displays not present an image. With component video, just about every display can auto adjust to a presented resolution. With HDMI, all displays must have the same native resolution to work; if you mix and match displays, you're likely to have problems.

From the link;

With due respect to the common analog transmission technologies (VGA, XGA, SVGA, UXGA), DVI is generally considered to be the better transmitter primarily because analog is sensitive to the phase changes of cable.

Whats a 'phase change of a cable?' Remember, even thought it's a digital signal, it's an analog carrier. Both HDMI and component will have issues with length. Currently, component is much easier and cheaper to run long distances.


The same goes for component video, another analog format that is limited to a bandwidth that transmits resolutions up to 480P.


That's absolutely untrue. Component video can transmit any resolution that HDMI can. Who wrote this stuff? I'd check up anything that is promised with a phone call and verification.

But with solid soldering techniques, using low capacitance, thicker DVI cables and fiber optic interface technologies, the distance of DVI transmission is not limited and can extend as far
as 500-meters from the source to the display.


The language here is interesting. The only way to run far is with fiber optic ($$$). But, note the language; 'distance is not limited AND can run up to 500 meters.' Anybody ever hear of a 100 meter HDMI cable? Running these distances means powered devices and connections, and higher cost; you can run component 250ft without amplification, especially at lower res.


- supports bi-directional communication between devices, allowing the DTV to communicate its preferred audio/video formats to the set-top box, and the set-top box to communicate what video format it is providing to the display. This enables the DTV to make intelligent decisions on how to render any given image in the format designated by the original film providers.


Again, interesting language. Please note that this is what we all want the stuff to do, but this never really happens. This is like 'Plug n Play' software that still takes a bunch of set up time.

Hate to nitpick, but it's going to take some work to get all this stuff put together. This is the difference between 'cutting edge' and the 'bleeding edge'... this is the bleeding edge.
post #72 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Authority
Hello.

Sorry for the delay in responding, but I didn't want to continue to post using my personal name on this forum without identifying who I work for - Audio Authority. It wasn't my intent to deceive, which is why we are officially maintaining this name now.

In response to your question, in the wallplate configurations, you would run your 5.1 source (say a DVD player) from the 1166/76 system to the wallpate, then plug a surround receiver into the digital audio output from the wallplate. That way, you just have a receiver, with all the sound controls and that in your room, with your source elsewhere.

Video, of course, can be served to the same wallplate. Purchasing an IR receiver and plugging it into the wallplate will allow remote selection of different sources.
Or you can look at some good Extron UTP RX and TX gear. We've used Extrons gear quite a bit and have had great success. IMO, their customer support is hard to beat. Whether you are an end user of dealer they help out.
post #73 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve
Trent,

How does the 1166 handle HDCP? I have seen some units that require the first display to always be ON in order for the system to work.

Also, how does it handle forwarding different resolution signals to different capability displays?

Steve
Steve,

The 1166 is HDCP compliant, and we haven't run into any problems with strange handshake issues like what you mentioned. Keep in mind, however, that due to the HDCP compliant nature of the unit, it will not be able to pass HDMI or DVI inputs back out over Component outputs - this includes the built in output of the 1166, and the 9878 wallplates.

When you talk about outputting different resolution signals to different resolution displays, I assume you mean when using the 1166 along with the 1176 to create a Matrix Distribution router. If I'm wrong, please correct me, and I will re-answer.

The 1166 has sufficient bandwidth to pass through any range of resolutions, up to 1080p. Say you have a cable box outputting 720p, an HD DVD player outputting 1080i, and a Blu-Ray player outputting 1080p - all these can be passed in that format to whichever wallplate is using that source. Scaling will need to take place within the display or the source unit, because the 1166 is not a scaler.

I hope this answered your questions.

Best Regards,

Trent Davis
post #74 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Authority
Hello.

I'm glad to see you're interested in our Audio Authority products. As far as using the 1166 for your system, since you're wanting to run signal to different rooms, you should add the 1176 Cat-5 Matrix Adaptor to the 1166...basically, using those two pieces together allows you to have those six different inputs sent to six different TVs, and each TV could potentially watch a different input.

Control of that system would be through the Cat-5 wallplates that terminate the Cat-5 run...the model 9878. They have IR inputs on each wallplate, so adding a simple IR receiver can allow discrete input selection remotely, without affecting what everybody else is watching.

All this is more clear when actually looking at the products: www.AudioAuthority.com

We are also working on an IR blaster system to make changing channels on the appropriate cable/satellite box more simple. That's coming down the pipe soon.

If you have more questions, please don't hesitate to contact us at 1-800-322-8346. My extension is 122.
Yes, I am planning on using a 1166/1176 combo.

Maybe I misunderstand how an IR Blaster system works, you guys should be able to clear this up for me. My understanding is that it just received a code and then sent it on to the source components. If I understand what you are saying here, do I send a unique code to the blaster, and then the blaster converts the code to the appropriate source component and then sends it over to that source?

That would be pretty cool, and should solve my control questions if that is true. Is there a timeframe in mind to release your IR blaster system?

So, the only other functionality I would want would be to automatically select the next available source when another TV is turned on. Does anyone know if there is any ability to get that?
post #75 of 76
SDI/HD SDI will work over RG6, its 3GHz uncompressed video. SDI is a broadcast gear standard, fairly expensive.

I would like to distribute over RG6, already in my walls. I don;t want to pull more wires.
post #76 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynn29
Yes, I am planning on using a 1166/1176 combo.

Maybe I misunderstand how an IR Blaster system works, you guys should be able to clear this up for me. My understanding is that it just received a code and then sent it on to the source components. If I understand what you are saying here, do I send a unique code to the blaster, and then the blaster converts the code to the appropriate source component and then sends it over to that source?

That would be pretty cool, and should solve my control questions if that is true. Is there a timeframe in mind to release your IR blaster system?

So, the only other functionality I would want would be to automatically select the next available source when another TV is turned on. Does anyone know if there is any ability to get that?
With our system, an IR receiver at the wallplate end will receive the signal (say you're trying to change the channel on your HD Box.) and pass it down the Cat-5 cable where it will be output from the 1166 into either an IR blaster or terminal block, where that "change channel" command will be sent to the HD box.

Our IR blaster is way down the road still, it seems - in the meantime, you can use almost anybody's system. We use Xantech here in the factory. Keep in mind though, that the 12 volts is already on the remote line - don't use a powered terminal block, or you'll fry it and the 1166!

I'm not sure what you mean by the "next available source". The 1166 has an autoselect function that will select the appropriate source automatically based on what's turned on. Is that what you meant, or something else?
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