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Just got Samsung Blu-Ray Player and 4 Movies. - Page 9  

post #241 of 267
How much is "marginally" better? Is the difference nearly indistinguishable? Seems there's a decent difference between 480i and 480p, but this bluray-biased reviewer can't tell between 1080i and 1080p. Quote from review:

"1080i vs. 1080p was a wash. Much ado has been made of the fact that Blu-ray players can output 1080p resolution while first-generation HD-DVD players, namely the Toshiba HD-A1 and its ilk, can output "only" 1080i. I've said before that it's nearly impossible to tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p sources on a 1080p HDTV, and after the following test, I feel even more confident that 1080p output capability is overrated.

Using the same two players hooked up in the manner described above, I put a Memento Blu-ray disc in each and set one to 1080i mode and the other to 1080p. I chose one of the few scenes with a lot of motion--Leonard's final drive back from the vacant lot to the tattoo parlor--where interlaced artifacts from 1080i, such as jagged or moving lines, should be more visible. Bouncing back and forth between the 1080i and 1080p versions, I could see no differences whatsoever. From the white lines dividing the street to the buildings and the parked cars alongside the road flashing by, to close-ups of Leonard and his wife (Jorja Fox), the two looked identical. I can imagine material that might show more of a difference, such as sporting events with lots of camera movement, but it wasn't there in the scene I watched."

Link to entire Cnet review:
http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7...?tag=cnetfd.sd

Another review (without a bluray movie to play) by a Microsoft employee:

Originally Posted by Amirm
Samsung first-look: glass half empty

"The title says it all. We have two Samsung players (yes, it is nice to have the purchasing department of the company going after a new product ). Being aligned with HD DVD format, don’t look for generous reporting here .

Unfortunately, no BD disc. So tonight we spent taking the box apart , and testing a few SD discs. More tomorrow.

The box is smaller and more compact than the Toshiba. There is fan in there but it is a lot smaller than the one in Toshiba. The unit produces a lower frequency hum than Toshiba but puts out much hotter air. Overall, it is a bit quieter than Toshiba given the lower frequency of the noise.

The power cord is permanently attached to the unit so you can not swap it out. No Ethernet on the box as reported.

Player menus are attractive but slow. Buttons take 2 seconds or so to respond so going through the menus can be a bit aggravating. It seems like that changing resolutions requires a trip through the set up, unlike Toshiba that has remote control settings. Not a big deal for average user but for us trying to test this thing, is a bit of a pain.

I was surprised that the front panel controls were cheaply made and not very responsive. Hitting pause for example, required multiple pressings, hoping the thing would take it. Yeh, just as bad as the Toshiba down button on the remote.

As reported, this is also a slow player when it comes to disc loading. We measured some 22 seconds from inserting a SD DVD until it showed the first picture. This is faster than the Toshiba but still pretty slow.

OK, picture quality. We don’t have a BD disc so we tried upscaling performance. We hooked up the set to the Sony Qualia 005, 1080 LCD through its HDMI port. The Samsung player would not let us select 1080p which is probably good thing because the TV would not show it anyway. But mystery remains as to how well this works. So we went with 1080i.

The verdict here is not good. The Toshiba is definitely sharper than the Samsung when upscaling SD DVD. We had the same disc in both players and moved the HDMI cable between the two and even with blind tests, my colleague could tell the difference. Then we asked him to open his eyes and he could still that the Samsung was softer .

We tried a 4:3 DVD and to my surprise, the Samsung stretched it to 16:9. None of the player settings would override this. And the quality was really bad here. The Toshiba nicely pillarboxes these discs.

We didn’t test the audio but some things are disappointing. The manual makes no mention of advanced audio codecs. The only thing that it puts out on its SPDIF/TosLink is DTS and DD as predicted. And PCM output on the HDMI but no decoding of advanced codecs. This means that if the BD disc uses advanced audio codecs, there is no way to hear them in their full glory. The Toshiba on the other hand, can decode DD+ and DolbyTrueHD (in 2 channel) over HDMI and analog. With Samsung, you are stuck with current DVD audio quality unless the disc is encoded with high resolution PCM.

Speaker set up was very rudimentary. It only allowed small/large size setting with no distance, cross over or level parameters like Toshiba has. If your processor performs such processing on HDMI PCM audio, you are fine. If not, then you have a suboptimal situation.

We took the box apart and indeed, it has the same guts as shown in the Poland thread. Additional things that we noticed are the fact that it uses a Samsung drive. We took it apart a bit and looked at the OPU (optical pick up). Could not see the manufacturer but it clearly had a two lens system (one to read CDs/DVDs and the other for BD). The complexity of the machine seems much less than the Toshiba but it clearly has a host processor with fair bit of memory for graphics and such.

Anyway, sorry that this review is not more positive. I am sure this device puts out nice HD video but we didn’t have anything to play on it so left with nitpicking on the corners here"
post #242 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by eizenga13
... but when half of your new releases are not "on par" with another form of HD then why would you keep looking to the future?
Uh...

1) Because we've only seen MPEG2 releases so far, and you're comparing MPEG2 to VC-1?

2) Because in a short while we'll also have VC-1 titles? (Only then can we do REAL comparisons.)

3) Because Blu-ray is supported by more studios?

4) Because Blu-ray is supported by more hardware makers?

Plenty of reasons to be looking to the future!
post #243 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by nilsp
Uh...

1) Because we've only seen MPEG2 releases so far, and you're comparing MPEG2 to VC-1?

2) Because in a short while we'll also have VC-1 titles? (Only then can we do REAL comparisons.)

3) Because Blu-ray is supported by more studios?

4) Because Blu-ray is supported by more hardware makers?

Plenty of reasons to be looking to the future!
It is good to have blind faith. What else are people supposed to compare?
post #244 of 267
Blind faith? Are you serious? All I'm saying is that true comparisons between Blu-ray and HD DVD titles can't be done until we have the same title using the same codec on both platforms. Saying Blu-ray is doomed because the initial MPEG2 titles don't look as sharp as the dual layer HD DVD VC-1 titles on one player is, well, a tad premature.

No matter. A month or two from now, the picture should be a lot clearer.... (No pun intended.)
post #245 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macroblocker
How much is "marginally" better? Is the difference nearly indistinguishable? Seems there's a decent difference between 480i and 480p, but this bluray-biased reviewer can't tell between 1080i and 1080p. Quote from review:
The whole 1080i versus 1080p thing is a myth. The original 1080p24 signal can be reconstructed *exactly* by sending a 1080i60 output to the display. As long as the display (or outboard scaler) decodes the 1080i signal correctly, it's not "nearly indistinguishable" but *identical*.

--
Steve
post #246 of 267
Now I want a blu-ray player so bad! I have a Toshiba preordered through the power buy on here but haven't gotten it yet. I went to my local BB but they don't have any. They told me they had two in stock but they are sold out and there's not anymore coming in anytime soon. I went on Ebay and saw there are some listed now.
post #247 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by nilsp
Blind faith? Are you serious? All I'm saying is that true comparisons between Blu-ray and HD DVD titles can't be done until we have the same title using the same codec on both platforms. Saying Blu-ray is doomed because the initial MPEG2 titles don't look as sharp as the dual layer HD DVD VC-1 titles on one player is, well, a tad premature.

No matter. A month or two from now, the picture should be a lot clearer.... (No pun intended.)
Yes, I am serious. The true comparisons start when the product is released. It has been released and now people are comparing. Because you dont like the results of the comparison you say we have to wait until BD gets VC-1?

Come on...
post #248 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by markwco
Now I want a blu-ray player so bad! I have a Toshiba preordered through the power buy on here but haven't gotten it yet. I went to my local BB but they don't have any. They told me they had two in stock but they are sold out and there's not anymore coming in anytime soon. I went on Ebay and saw there are some listed now.
Crutchfield has them in stock with free shipping

--
Steve
post #249 of 267
MPEG2 and VC-1 releases? I assume it is the function of the player to decode MPEG2 and VC-1. So if you buy a BR player now will it play VC-1 discs?
post #250 of 267
The only valid comparison anyone can do right now is between the Tosh and the Samsung. And it certainly does not look like the Samsung, at twice the cost, is winning that comparison. It is also true that both formats will get better as more players and later generation players come out. So yes, the Tosh/Samsung comparison may not hold true for future HD/BD comparisons. But, does anybody really believe at this point that BD will look significantly better than HD to justify the incremental price of their players? IMO, the only advantage for BD is studio support (sorry, but I do not see storage capacity as important to J6P), and that will change quickly depending on sales.
post #251 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP
The only valid comparison anyone can do right now is between the Tosh and the Samsung. And it certainly does not look like the Samsung, at twice the cost, is winning that comparison. It is also true that both formats will get better as more players and later generation players come out. So yes, the Tosh/Samsung comparison may not hold true for future HD/BD comparisons. But, does anybody really believe at this point that BD will look significantly better than HD to justify the incremental price of their players? IMO, the only advantage for BD is studio support (sorry, but I do not see storage capacity as important to J6P), and that will change quickly depending on sales.

For me the question is really simple. If there were a hypothetical unviersal player and titles were available on both current HD DVD and BD formats, which disks would you get? I think I have more confidence in 30 GB VC-1 HD DVD than 25 GB mpeg-2 BD. But that is not to say that next week after I have seen half a dozen more BD films I'll not change my position on this :D
post #252 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears
I tried feeding 1080p24 and 1080p48 into the Samsung HL-S5088W and it won't accept it. It only accepts 1080p60, which is what I am feeding from the BD-P1000.
what did you use to feed the sammy the 1080p24 and 1080p48, the sammy bd player or is it limited to output only 1080p60?
post #253 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew P
It is good to have blind faith. What else are people supposed to compare?
Vapor ware at this point.
post #254 of 267
btw, what happened to the thread started by amir on the samsung bd player?
post #255 of 267
I don't know but did you get your Samsung yet ?
post #256 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penton-Man
I don't know but did you get your Samsung yet ?
i just posted in another thread that i cancelled my pre-order; i went out looking to find one locally but as i drove around and pondered what i was doing, i thought that getting the samsung was probably not the best way to spend the $1,000...i figured i would wait for Sony/Pioneer. but now, after reading some reviews, particularly this one by Cliff Stephenson on the Toshiba vs. Samsung thread, i am thinking that i might wait for 2g players. i would love to just pick one up and play around for 30 days, but i am against that practice.
post #257 of 267
Quote:
btw, what happened to the thread started by amir on the samsung bd player?
It got a "time out"
post #258 of 267
Wow! I just made it through the last 7 pages of this thread and I must say the SNR is quite low.

This thread is supposed to be about the Samsung player, instead it seems to be a format war with rampant speculation based on SD upconversion and maybe a handful of titles.

When both camps have 100+ titles (with some duplicates) and at least 5 players for each format, then you can have your format war that might have some teeth!

Give me a combo player and I don't care who "wins" as long as I have high quality HD transfers to view.
post #259 of 267
Quote:
what did you use to feed the sammy the 1080p24 and 1080p48, the sammy bd player or is it limited to output only 1080p60?
I could only get 1080p60 from the Sammy player. I used the iScan VP30 to try and feed 1080p24 and 1080p48 to the Sammy display.
post #260 of 267
I just saw the Samsung BR player connected to the HLS6187 at our BB. It was playing the BR "House of Flying Daggers". The scene playing was the very green bamboo forest with the blindfolded knife throwing. There was noise (dithering or mosquito noise) through-out the image from a distance of 7' to 10'.

I changed the set to it's movie mode, turned sharpness down to zero and turned DNIe off. That helped, but the noise was still there.

I have a "House of Flying Daggers" SD clip from earlier in the movie that I use for sound and color evaluation. I've never noticed this kind of image noise in the SD version. I've seen it on a 65" 1080p HP DLP played on a Sony player, on a 73" ISF calibrated 1080p Mitsubishi DLP played on an up-scaling Denon player, and on a 50" ISF calibrated 720p HLP5063 upscaled by TheaterTek 2.3.

We have watched the whole movie on our HLP without me seeing any noticeable image noise from about 10'.

So far I haven't had a chance to read anything about the BR transfer of "House of Flying Daggers".

If I get a chance, I'll take my "House of Flying Daggers" clip to BB and see how the Samsung BR handles converting it.
post #261 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits
I just saw the Samsung BR player connected to the HLS6187 at our BB. It was playing the BR "House of Flying Daggers". The scene playing was the very green bamboo forest with the blindfolded knife throwing. There was noise (dithering or mosquito noise) through-out the image from a distance of 7' to 10'.

I changed the set to it's movie mode, turned sharpness down to zero and turned DNIe off. That helped, but the noise was still there.

I have a "House of Flying Daggers" SD clip from earlier in the movie that I use for sound and color evaluation. I've never noticed this kind of image noise in the SD version. I've seen it on a 65" 1080p HP DLP played on a Sony player, on a 73" ISF calibrated 1080p Mitsubishi DLP played on an up-scaling Denon player, and on a 50" ISF calibrated 720p HLP5063 upscaled by TheaterTek 2.3.

We have watched the whole movie on our HLP without me seeing any noticeable image noise from about 10'.


So far I haven't had a chance to read anything about the BR transfer of "House of Flying Daggers".

If I get a chance, I'll take my "House of Flying Daggers" clip to BB and see how the Samsung BR handles converting it.
I also saw this movie today at BB being demoed on the Samsung BD via a Sammy DLP. The PQ was just awful...in fact dreadful. This screen was sitting among 8 other projection screens all showing some other demo loop and if I said they rated a 10 for PQ, I would rate the BD as about 2.

I talked to the salesman who set it up and said something like "looks disappointing, huh?" And he immediately said "It depends on the movie.." Then he said "I'm going to try to set it up to another screen and you will see iit is 10 times better than what you see now. At least it better be 10 times better."

He was clearly defensive about the PQ and also disappointed. I will return in a few days and see what changes if any were made.

I was shocked that this machine could produce such a bad picture on any screen with any setup. Ok, maybe it was the movie....but maybe not.
post #262 of 267
what ever happened with the old saying, "put your best foot forward..."
post #263 of 267
This seems like a Republican vs. Democrat debate, no one is ever going to agree.
post #264 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by fafner
I also saw this movie today at BB being demoed on the Samsung BD via a Sammy DLP. The PQ was just awful...in fact dreadful. This screen was sitting among 8 other projection screens all showing some other demo loop and if I said they rated a 10 for PQ, I would rate the BD as about 2.

I talked to the salesman who set it up and said something like "looks disappointing, huh?" And he immediately said "It depends on the movie.." Then he said "I'm going to try to set it up to another screen and you will see iit is 10 times better than what you see now. At least it better be 10 times better."

He was clearly defensive about the PQ and also disappointed. I will return in a few days and see what changes if any were made.

I was shocked that this machine could produce such a bad picture on any screen with any setup. Ok, maybe it was the movie....but maybe not.
I also saw tons of mosiquito noise, but i didn't want to comment on it as it may have been exacerbated by both displays- and it may have been film grain- although if it was it seemed to play havoc with the compression.
I agree that the picture was generally ugly, with intermittenly 'nice' sequences.
I also saw macroblocking and posterizing going around (check out the sky in the upper right corner around the 42 minute mark). at BEST it looked as good as the usual instore feeds, but generally it looked worse.
again, I don't know how much I would attribute to the disc as opposed to the actual movie, as I've never seen it. It could be quite a grainy movie to begin with- which just proved that the Mpeg2 compression wasn't up to snuff for the disc.

when the salesman at CC came over I made the comment "so this is Blu-ray, huh? Pretty disappointing"
his response was surprisingly candid I thought -"yeah, a lot of people have said that..."
post #265 of 267
I'm surprised more haven't jumped on the salesman saying a firmware fix was coming because that's the first I've heard anything about it. Would not surprise me since the Toshiba HD-DVD needed a fix right off the bat too, though the Samsung may be even more glitchy right now.

I wouldn't get too worked up about what this means for Blu-Ray quality in the long run just yet. The other players have been delayed, meaning this one was rushed and it shows. And, as far as Sony titles, don't even bother trying to judge Blu-Ray quality on what Sony is putting out. Their DVD's have been hit-or-miss for a while, even the suberbits aren't even consistently excellent. Look to other studios. And the Bits says pre-release dual layer Blu-ray software exists, but the replication systems aren't up and running yet. Sounds like they rushed too much to get it out there what with HD-DVD on the shelves. Sit back and relax and see what happens. Dual-layer discs will come, as will firmware upgrades and better, more refined players. And as with Sony DVD's, wait for the 2nd or 3rd release of the same Sony title to buy the one that actually has good picture quality. It is kind of sad though since they were about the best to go to at DVD's launch.

I look forward to reading about how any firmware fix remedies the problems people are experiencing with the Samsung, and I'm I'll be eagerly awaiting the Sony and Pioneer players, particularly the Pioneer. I love Sony ergonomics, but never have been all that thrilled with their players.

2nd or 3rd gen. for me though. I got my Toshiba 2nd gen. flagship for $400 new on eBay, but it had retailed earlier in the same release year for $800. That was summer '98! Prices will come down, quality will go up. Kind of exciting. If the format survives, there will be many years of quality players before the majority go el cheapo and the big names start making them cheaper to compete. Of course, if HD survives as only a niche format, quality may remain high, but hopefully not at dreadfully high prices.

Studio support and technical potential have had me favoring Blu-Ray. HD-DVD has a slight edge right now, but it stumbled out of the blocks too before correcting itself. Blu-Ray has perhaps stumbled more and stalled, but just has to do its best to correct the problems and regain ground. If it gets its act together by Christmas it could still be sitting pretty. It could certainly benefit from the early-early adopters, but I don't think they'll be alienated for too long if they can show a little patience.
post #266 of 267
Should we just wait and not get a Tosh A1? and wait? I respect your opinion
post #267 of 267
If you want state of the art PQ now, you get the Toshiba. It's really not likely that either format will give much better PQ than the Toshiba currently offers. Toshiba has already offered a very effective firmware fix and another one is coming very shortly.
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