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Just got Samsung Blu-Ray Player and 4 Movies. - Page 3  

post #61 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears
T2 is at a higher bitrate than the other two. I believe T2 is 22-25 Mbps avg with a 35 Mbps peak while the other two are closer to 16-18 Mbps avg. I will confirm the T2 bitrate tomorrow. I won't be able to confirm the Sony titles though.
A lower bitrate than OTA HD? Are you sure?
post #62 of 267
How's the fan noise?
post #63 of 267
Yikes....this does not sound good.
post #64 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer
Does the player output 1080P60? 1080P24? OR BOTH?

jeff
as many times i have already post i have confirm from the sony vice president and samsung that the player
output 24p when film material is the source.
the question is will it also output 24psf that your and my qualia needs and how
the communication is between the bd and the pr.(handshack problems or not)
and what they do with 60 i material.
output 60p?
I think it's important to point out for people thinking of picking this player up that the 1080p output has been confirmed to be not straight from the disc, but a product of post-processing after the 1080i signal has already been produced. The Pio and Sony offerings will do it right though.

See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4&page=7&pp=30
at or around p0st #200.
post #65 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hetz
Yikes....this does not sound good.
Anything in particular?

Quote:
A lower bitrate than OTA HD? Are you sure?
Isn't OTA constant bit-rate? What's the average OTA bitrate then?
post #66 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross
A lower bitrate than OTA HD? Are you sure?
Max bitrate for OTA HD is 19Mbps. Unless there are absolutely no sub-channels, the bitrates usually average below 15Mbps.
post #67 of 267
What inputs does the unit have on the back? USB, ethernet? How is the menu setup? Does it allow basic setttings on the player (Color, contrast, brightness, hue)? Any DHCP or DNS settings?

I tried to hookup a USB wireless dongle to my HD-A1 and noticed that both USB ports on the front dont provide power or are not active. If the blue ray has USB can you tell us how those are functioning?
post #68 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBlacklow
Max bitrate for OTA HD is 19Mbps. Unless there are absolutely no sub-channels, the bitrates usually average below 15Mbps.
I'm still very surprised it's that low on the titles Stacey mentions. Hopefully that will not be a pattern. I would think that low bitrate would bring it too close to the potenital for introduction of artifacts with fast motion, explosions etc. Hopefully that's not the case.
post #69 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by stepmback
What inputs does the unit have on the back? USB, ethernet? How is the menu setup? Does it allow basic setttings on the player (Color, contrast, brightness, hue)? Any DHCP or DNS settings?
The manual is online:

http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/co...AA_BK_0602.pdf

No Ethernet...it's a Profile 1 v1.0 design.
post #70 of 267
Greetings

Ultimately ... believe in what you see with your eyes ... don't follow a bit rate meter.

Regards
post #71 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBlacklow
Max bitrate for OTA HD is 19Mbps. Unless there are absolutely no sub-channels, the bitrates usually average below 15Mbps.
isn't that actually the transport stream bitrate...not sure how much overhead is eaten up by the transport stream, but OTA bitrate must be at least a little lower than 19Mbps...the other thing to keep in mind, OTA is CBR, MPEG2 encoding on BD titles, while I would prefer VC-1 or AVC, use VBR encoding.
post #72 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenDover
isn't that actually the transport stream bitrate...not sure how much overhead is eaten up by the transport stream, but OTA bitrate must be at least a little lower than 19Mbps...the other thing to keep in mind, OTA is CBR, MPEG2 encoding on BD titles, while I would prefer VC-1 or AVC, use VBR encoding.
well yes the OTA transport stream may be 19mbps (or less) CBR, but the actual encodes of the video are often VBR with null packets inserted for OTA...
post #73 of 267
Was going to say what Micheal TLV said, but I'm glad someone with a repuation here did it first. Bit-rates, codecs etc. do not matter one tiny bit. Just look at your screen and decide if you like what you see or not.
It doesn't output Dolby True HD? I bet 99% of us couldn't tell the difference between that and 640K DD in a blind test.
post #74 of 267
Quote:
A lower bitrate than OTA HD? Are you sure?
In the Sony press conference where they said VC-1 and AVC were not good enough, they said their MPEG2 encoder is a breakthrough and they are targeting 16-18 Mbps. They told the other studios that this is all they need. The other studios tested the MPEG encoder and determined that Sony was blowing smoke with their 18 Mbps transparent comment. Based on the content, 20-25 Mbps is where the other studios are targeting the features. They will use the highest bitrate the format allows based on their bit budget.

My cable company is using 8-10 Mbps for their HD channels. It is usually resized to 1280 x 1080i.
post #75 of 267
Quote:
A lower bitrate than OTA HD? Are you sure?
Ken,

it's VBR on BD. Isn't OTA fixed?



Quote:
I opened another copy of The Fifth Element and this disc booted up just fine. The movie itself looks pretty good, but imo The Terminator disc takes the cake out of the three movies I have had a small chance to view so far. Keep in mind this set is not calibrated, and the lights in here do not help the issue so it is tough for me to provide a totally accurate assessment.
FACT: The 5th Element was the LEAST IMPRESSIVE HD DEMO CLIP on the Sony BD demo disc we saw at the Sony Styles Store. Honestly, I wondered (as did longshot) if something was wrong... it looked like upconverted SD material... no better to my eyes the my OPPO showing me the upscaled SB disc on my BenQ.

As shocking as it may sound... the 5th element might not be the "reference" HD demo disc we all thought it should be... having nothing to do with MPEG2... it might be that the film just isn't any sharper.
post #76 of 267
Quote:
I think it's important to point out for people thinking of picking this player up that the 1080p output has been confirmed to be not straight from the disc, but a product of post-processing after the 1080i signal has already been produced. The Pio and Sony offerings will do it right though.
IT'S NOT A PROBLEM If the Sammy is doing 3-2 pulldown reversal right and producing true 1080p frame reconstruction then IT IS FULL QUALITY 1080P... there is no loss of quality whatsover.

Now, if the Sammy is just bobbing 1080i to 1080p (like those 3 Warner Brothers HD DVD titles :D ) *that* would be a problem. If we need to give a lesson in deinterlacing film based 60Hz video and how the process is 100% lossless let me know.

But if they're doing inverse telecine to restore true frame data, then it's JUST FINE.

That's what we need to confirm.
post #77 of 267
I don't see the problem with outputting 1080i at all, if you have a very good scaler you want the scaler to do the de-interlacing anyway so what's the problem?

Yes of course if you have a true 1080p panel at home and want it straight thru, but most people today doesn't even have a 1080p panel at home yet.
post #78 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
If we need to give a lesson in deinterlacing film based 60Hz video and how the process is 100% lossless let me know.
in all seriousness, this might be helpful to some new members if you would please
post #79 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew P
Amazing for Terminator as a 20 year old movie? or amazing by HD standards? Generally older movies just do not look as good...
Think so? Just wait until you see Singin' In The Rain (1944) and The Wizard Of Oz (1939).

Judging from the cable broadcasts, they'll rival ANYTHING done today!
post #80 of 267
Quote:
the 5th element might not be the "reference" HD demo disc we all thought it should be... having nothing to do with MPEG2... it might be that the film just isn't any sharper.
I have a hard time with that. The fact is that 35 mm film has more detail than ANY of the HD formats. I think a better way to put it might be that Sony's TRANSFER of the film might not be as sharp as it could be/should be. We know for a fact, for example, that Sony's HD transfer of Lawrence of Arabia was no great shakes and NO one would argue that a 70 MM FILM isn't sharp enough to impress!
post #81 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat
I think it's important to point out for people thinking of picking this player up that the 1080p output has been confirmed to be not straight from the disc, but a product of post-processing after the 1080i signal has already been produced. The Pio and Sony offerings will do it right though.
And that's why I'm skipping the Samsung and waiting for the Pio and Sony players instead. In the meantime, I have my US HD-A1 and Japanese HD-AX1 to play with =)
post #82 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR
I have a hard time with that. The fact is that 35 mm film has more detail than ANY of the HD formats.
...when it is the original stock footage that came from the camera. It's lost some resolution by time it gets to completed master and distribution copy. That's where HD formats can pull ahead as more of the chain is implemented in the digital domain.
post #83 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
IT'S NOT A PROBLEM...
Plenty of IF's in your post. I don't trust Samsung to get it right, seeing how buggy their DVD players have been, and still are.
post #84 of 267
I wouldn't worry about the PQ of The Fifth Element. You all know how Sony likes us to double and triple dip. There will probably be two more versions of this on BD. If I'm wrong, I'll be really upset that they botched the transfer on this.
post #85 of 267
Quote:
It's lost some resolution by time it gets to completed master and distribution copy
Films aren't transferred from copies used for theatrical distribution. Interpositives (much closer to the original) are used.

I saw a comparison of identical HD/film footage at the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences. Film was always better.

Quote:
There will probably be two more versions of this on BD
The bottom line is that it sounds like this release isn't worth getting.
post #86 of 267
One of the features of the Cortez (FLI8638) is 1080i IVT, so it should be good to go. However, at this point it is just speculation. Some tests will need to be run to confirm it is going through the Cortez for native BD.
post #87 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grubert
The Fifth Element was shot on Super35. Terminator was shot on Flat Academy ratio. Everything else being equal, Terminator would be sharper/less grainy.
Are we talking T1 or T2 here?

T2 was shot Super35 just like Fifth Element. With T1, not all else is equal. The movie was made for a very low budget on inexpensive film stock, with a lot of optical compositing. It's a rather grainy film.
post #88 of 267
Quote:
I have a hard time with that. The fact is that 35 mm film has more detail than ANY of the HD formats. I think a better way to put it might be that Sony's TRANSFER of the film might not be as sharp as it could be/should be. We know for a fact, for example, that Sony's HD transfer of Lawrence of Arabia was no great shakes and NO one would argue that a 70 MM FILM isn't sharp enough to impress!
RobertR,

yes, it may very well be Sony's transfer (not the film elements) that is lacking.

It was just so shocking to see it look so "lame" next to all the other BD demo clips... including other films that are Sony transfers (Lawrence of Arabia). And didn't they just recently do a new film-digital transfer for that "ultimate" edition?

In any case... all I mean to say is that if the demo clips I saw at the Sony Style store have anything to incidate... it's not the fault of MPEG2 that's leading to the softness in the 5th E.

If it *can* look better than I am really bummed! I always dreamed of this title being the drop-dead gorgeous demo disc.

BTW, the LOA HD clips on the demo disc were THE MOST IMPRESSIVE HD I'VE EVER SEEN. It was astonishingly "window like". Wow. I wonder if they did a new film-digital transfer?



Quote:
I don't see the problem with outputting 1080i at all, if you have a very good scaler you want the scaler to do the de-interlacing anyway so what's the problem?
How many outboard scalers do you know that do proper inverse telecine when deinterlacing 1080i60 film source material to 1080p? VERY FEW.

Bobbing 1080i to get 1080p is NOT real 1080p!!!!
post #89 of 267
Quote:
Plenty of IF's in your post. I don't trust Samsung to get it right, seeing how buggy their DVD players have been, and still are.

I'm just saying we shouldn't say something is a "problem" until we know that it is. It's just as much of an "if" either way.

But rather than saying it "is" a problem which is not proven at all, I'm saying we should be honest that it's just an "if" and treat it as a *concern* until we know the facts.

Facts are the things that used to matter to people posting on AVS way back when before all this HD DVD/BD hullaballo started.... remember?

:D
post #90 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Bobbing 1080i to get 1080p is NOT real 1080p!!!!
Relax!

I am not bobbing, otherwise i would have mentioned it. :rolleyes:
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