2007 Mitsubishi WD-XX73X and XX831 Owner's Thread - Page 62

Tweeter guys told me about the 831 delivery date. I saw the 73732 at Ken Crane in Westminster on Beach Blvd.

Thanks for the heads up! I will have to make it over there during lunch this week (I work in OC).

Where do you get the idea that any of these tv's have 'a very good reliablity'?Actually JVC was the worst, and Toshiba the best in the survey (but it was done before the SXRD was available I think)...but ALL brands were worse than good old conventional tube tv's. There are horror stories galore on AVS forum about Samsung, and all other brands as well. Consumer Reports normally advises to avoid extended warranties, BUT said they may make sense on micro-display type projection tv's. The thing we have to remember is the old reliable tube type tv's are a very mature technology that has been evolving more than 50 years. DLP and SXRD etc are in their infancy, and hence not nearly as reliable. These tv's are more prone to fail, VERY expensive to repair, and too pricey to throw away at a young age. Therefore I stongly advise people to buy a warranty.

Why are you confusing reliability with the advent of new technology.

New technology may have issues related to the need for microcode upgrade, etc. but that is not a reliability problem.

Most reliability problems come from poor manufacturing quality techniques which normally is the result of outsourced manufacturing at the lowest hourly pay to workers, inferior material, no burn-in prior to shipment to eliminate infant mortality, inadequate shipping methods, etc.

The ambient environment in which we operate this equipment has a lot to do with reliability, i.e., a room that is not properly cooled with adequate air flow, the need for many of us to have built in equipment, stacking equipment on top of other equipment. I wonder how many of us clean the vents on the equipment that we purchase and operate as a means of preventive maintenance to avoid what we call in the computer business as subsequent remedial maintenance, i.e., fixing the equipment after we abused it.

Heat and electronic equipment mix as well as automobiles and alcohol.

This new equipment is as delicate as a computer. It needs to be handled with kid gloves. We want reliability but do little to help insure that reliability.

I also see that there has been a lot of comment on the life cycle of the A/V equipment we purchase. In the computer industry the normal life cycle before new and faster equipment being introduced is approximately 18 months. We want more black detail, better game graphics, less RBE and therefore we are forcing the manufacturers (they love it!) to build newer equipment all the time.

Just look at the MITs situation. xx731, xx732, xx832 and so on. Who ever heard of releasing new iterations of the same equipment in the time frames being discussed on this forum. This is not even good business sense. We use to call this 'eating your own babies'. How do you eliminate the inventory and protect the reseller channel.

Let's get real folks!

Very well said, I totaly agree

Samsung & JVC have been nipped in the butt here often though Samsung has one of the largest profit margins of any manufacturers - they are an innovator but need to tweak QC to ensure repeat business from consumers-Samsung forces competitive innovation as they roll out new gen sets at about a 3:1 rate to Sony.


Agreed - One false thing I see repeatedly is panel life - as it assumes a clean environment and use and fails to consider environmental factors that degrade and age electronics - the panel may have a life of "X" years but what about the supporting electronics/circuits that have become home to dust bunnies and moisture over the years - I don't care what they post I would never expect 20 years out of a TV having worked in IT industry long term and my previous CRT's lasted 8 years each because of these factors.


Prematurely ages such equipment and owner needs to have an understanding of the environment that it can shorten the life cycle.


I've managed a sizeable network and buy the equipment also with 300+ PC's and a dozen servers for over ten years and I think you mean upgrade cycle as not many organizations could afford an 18 month rotation. Mine is on a 4-5 year obsolescence and I rotate are phased out equipment as donations to our disadvantaged customers with free inkjet printer and so I average over 5 years on PC's and 4 years on servers and the death rate within that period runs around 5% and we use those as cannibals. I agree that the upgrade cycle is now mirroring PC's in many respects with Moore's Law (which seems to be stalled now).


People now can place affordable Home Theaters in their homes - can anyone recall seeing their first plasma at a store selling for $25K or not too many years ago a 50" at $12K at BB? We've moved from viewing TV to the point we now EXPERIENCE TV in 1080i(p) - my Sony 36" Tube was great but it could not deliver what a large size wide screen panel can - not even close and thus people want to experience what they view with a you are there WoW factor that a CRT cannot deliver.


I would guess they are mirroring Samsung - they bring out new gen panels in every type at a lightning pace and they do it making a huge profit in most cases and one of the reasons Sony joined in the 5,000+ patent partnership with Samsung and Sony is back to making profits but not close to Samsung (both are benefitting-Samsungs have dramatically improved since this partnership esecially in PDP/LCD). On the one hand you have to give Kudo's to Samsung and forcing competition and on the other wake them up to the fact they need to tweak the QC area down in Mexico that seems to nip them in the ass, ala smudges. Is the fact that Mits has all these panels going to hinder success? I doubt it as the feedback is placing them towards the front of the pack and may take away consumers from the likes of Samsung and don't think Samsung isn't aware of what we are - they know very well who the competition is and how well they are doing - Just look at last weeks announcement of a 70" LCD FP going into production early next year and forcing perhaps Sharp to lower the prices on their panels to reality instead of Lotto region. Just some thoughts while we wait to get genuine owner feedback.


Hopefully the challenge doesn't turn into a flame fest as often occurs when news gets stalled. Extended warranty may be in order for any suspect new technology no matter how kick ass beautiful it may be as insurance. Just proceed cautiously as some vendors low ball you on price and markup delivery and extended warranty by 300%. Enjoy the Journey for the Holy Grail of HD! While we get Real!

Just be careful what EW you buy.
Whether it offers a new lamp, or even 2 new lamps, should be of no consequence. Comparatively speaking, the lamps are cheap, i.e., $2~300.
In other words, do not base your EW selection on whether or not it offers a lamp. That's BAIT to get you to sign. That's stupid and oftentimes stupid is painful (and should be). Figure on paying for the lamp yourself.

Instead, concern yourself more with the company. Have you even heard of them? How many service centers nationwide do they offer? If you move to B.F. Egypt can you still get service? Is your EW transferrable to someone should you sell the TV? Look at the contract, does it place a cap on the aggregate total dollar amount of combined repairs? (most do). Does it have a binding arbitration clause? If so, you usually cannot sue them. Does it have a "no-lemon" clause? Does it guarantee repair or replacement? Does it provide for in-home service and cover all pickup & delivery charges? Does it cover surge & lightning damage? Does it have a deductible? Does it offer annual cleaning & preventive maintenance? Will they send you an advance copy of the warranty contract for you (or your attorney) to look over...and if not, why not? Is the EW company a member of the BBB?

Finally, beware of "store brand" extended warranties, i.e., BB, CC, and Tweeter just to name 3 (there are many). There's been some reports that BB is notorious for the "weasel clauses" in some of their contracts. Also with a store brand contract they are the ones who'll be doing the service. Do you really want that as your only option?

You'll get sales pressure, but you do not have to buy "their" warranty. You can purchase your EW from anyone. Some EW companies will require that you buy the EW within the first 90 days of ownership. Others, such as WarrantyByNet only require that you have at least 90 days remaining on your original factory warranty.

That said, I personally feel that the technology in the new Mitsubishi DLP sets is sufficiently complex and new enough that any prediction of life expectancy is foolish and premature. When it comes to the EW I also know full well the odds of winning just as I know the cost of losing. Odds of winning notwithstanding, I can afford the EW. I cannot afford to have to replace the set if it craps out after the manufacturer's 12 month warranty and would feel pretty stupid for having passed up the EW if it did. Bad odds, yes; Comfort factor, high.

With that being said, what EW would you suggest, I just learned something new today regrding EW's. I didnt know you can purchase another EW from a different vendor. Tweeter offers a EW and it is kinda pricey and it covers 1 bulb replacement. Should I be wary and shop around, I feel I got a GREAT deal from them for the 831 and I am sold on the TV. But thier EW is kinda high I think, but then again it is a 5 year EW.

m12205,

While all your points are valid and understood, the fact of the matter is that most consumers have not had to worry about any of those things in the world of CRTs. The tech was so mature that CRTs had "learned" to weather the conditions in the average consumer's home.

To say that now consumers have to have a greater awarness of the fragility of their sets, and a greater awarness of adverse enviromental concerns pretty much makes the point IMO that the technology is still immature.

Use of technology has to be transparant to the average end user/consumer for it to be really successful. Niche, or super high end product can have different requirements because such equipment is being sold eith to enthusiasts, or to people who don't care about the cost and don't care about buying a new TV in 4 or 5 years.

I am going to stick my WD-65831 in my entertainment center, with sufficient clearance in the eyes of most consumers, in a house that is reasonably air conditioned given that I live in Houston, and it needs to work without any further concern on my part about heat, humidity, solar flares, or planetary alignments.

I can assure you I will buy an extended warranty since this is not the 50 year old tech that encompasses my current RCA CRT TV.

Ruin

Ruin just saved me the trouble of typing the same response. Well said!

One of my local high end TV stores inlcudes an extended warranty with the TV..but, of course, they don't negotiate nearly as much on the TV so I ended up buying a 65831 from someone else. The warranty they offer is through Mack Warranty....the same company that this AVS forum has a Power Buy deal with. But if you do a simple google search on Mack Extended TV Warranty you can find others selling them, too. You shouldn't have a problem picking up a Mack Extended Warranty (4 years....which really means 3 years on top of the Mits warranty with up to 2 bulb replacements that you can use within the first 3 years) for $300 or less. It doesn't seem to matter who sells you the Mack Warranty since the warranty itself seems to have all the in-home provisions you'd want or no cost shipping if it can't be fixed at home. I was sent a copy of the warranty and haven't seen any "weasel" clauses yet. I believe with Mack you usually have to buy the warranty within 30 days of purchase. I haven't purchased it yet but that's the direction I'm leaning. Does anyone have any concerns about Mack to protect our Mits DLP investments?

Is there anyone in Orange County ready to make a purchase on a new Mitsubishi? I am looking to see if anyone is interested in joining me to go down to BB, Frys or whoever to make a purchase. I looking to pick up either a 57731, 57732 or 65731. Hopefully we can get a better deal than picking it up alone. Please PM me. If you have any negotiating tip please PM me too.

I already checked into the Tweeter EW. It's 600 bux which with tax makes it $650 but as you say, includes ONE lamp. My concern is that it sounded to me like you're locked-in to having them service it. What if someday Tweeter goes out of business or you move out of their service area? It is a 4-year plan that starts after your factory warranty runs out which would seem to cover you for 5 years, but here's the catch; The factory warranty on the lamp is only 30 days, so by offering you the lamp replacement it sounded to me like exercising a claim on the lamp would penalize you 11 months of coverage at the end when you're apt to need it most. That's a steep penalty just so you can avoid having to pay for your own lamp.

The same coverage minus the dang lamp (what is this lamp fetish y'all seem to have?) from WarrantyByNet is $396 with no tax and WBN is a BBB member in good standing with a good record of settling claims. It kicks-in after the factory warranty runs out, so you're fully covered (but no lamp) for 5 years. I'm waiting to see a copy of their contract, but on the surface it looks like a potential candidate.

They cut you a deal on the 831 and now are all primed to gouge you on the EW. Tweeter's EW is outrageously priced, IMO

Think about only quoting just enough to make your comment meaningful. It will help AVS deal with it's bandwidth needs.

I doubt very much a 2kb message, even lots of them is any problem for anyones bandwidth needs. Its not the computer capacity thats the problem, its the synaptic capacity.

BTW its not bandwidth. Its data capacity. Bandwidth refers to the spectral width of an analog receiver, the wider the bandwidth, the more data capacity the analog channel can handle. Some people still insist on using the radio Bandwidth term. It does not have a practical meaning for wired computers. However there is a bandwidth limit that is driven by the circuit speed. Devices with a 5ns rise time have a bandwidth of 1.75Ghz. The data capacity is = .350/rise time. Thats about 9million 10Kb messages per second.

If you are really concerned about saving data capacity, then quit sending graphics and fancy smiley icons and frivolous emails asking to put fewer letters in it.

TEDUNLIMITED look under extended warrantys

I don't know how old you are but I went through every one of the cycles with CRTs. I had Panasonic CRTs begin to burn, I had Zenith CRT sets go fuzzy after two years of operation, on and on and on.

If you remember how mature things were with CRTs you are certainly not in my generation - as a matter of fact we may have been separated by another generation as well.

Absolutely wrong about consumers not knowing how fragile the equipment may be shows the immaturity of the product cycle.

I have been in the computer business since the mid 1950's, still in that business today. Ran the World's largest computer center at an East Coast installation - nothing has changed. solid state, silicon based technology is no different then what I experienced with tube computers. The only difference is that the tolerances for silicon based technology and the impact of more information being stored in denser more compact areas is the overall problem. What may not seem to be a lot of heat is actually death to compact densities. Take my word on this.

Using your example of maturity, then the generation of tube based computers were not as good as the 'good old' tabulation machines because they were in existence going back to the 1890 census.

With regard to your comment on warranties - if you go back to mid-July on this forum, I recommended that we all consider subscribing to extended warranty. I stated that it was like car insurance. You buy it but you hope you do not have an accident.

To: westa6969

With all due respect, I do not believe that PC or servers have a life much greater then 18 months, because I believe for the most part, the computer consumer, in the business arena, thinks he or she needs the fastest most complex systems whether they actually need it or not. I commend you if you keep everything for 5 years. Your are an unusual customer.

I will still stick to my 18 month statement. I am in the business of the marketing and sales of computers.

From Barrybud to this thread 08/24/2006.

An AVS moderator's request.

I have to decide by Tomorrow between the 65732 or 65831. I essentially will be buying one of these sets unseen. I have only looked at the 65731, and from this forum can only conclude that the 732 and 831 will be better in PQ than the 731.

I can put my money down and get the 65732 delivered this Thursday or I can wait until Sept 9th for the 65831. I negotiated a price of only $250 more for the 831, but I am wondering if it is worth it. Also wondering if that rebate rumor is real for Sept 1st and if I should wait to buy until then. The place I am buying from knew nothing of any rebates, but I take that with a grain of salt.

Questions still remaining for me on this 831 high contrast screen are:

1. Will the new 831 high contrast screen really be better than the 732?

2. What ways is it better?? I heard eliminates SSE (sparkling), better viewing angles, better light reflection (does this mean it is better when light from a window comes in and reflects onto the TV, usually making it harder to see the image?).

3. What are the odds I would actually not like it compared to the 732?

4. Does saying it looks like Plasma a good thing? I really haven't even looked at Plasmas that much because of price and the issues it has.

5. What is the max price difference people are willing to pay for the 831 compared to the 732 if this new screen is truly something to talk about?

It seems like this is the main feature between the 732 and 831 that people are talking about and wanted to get some final input if the 831 is truly the way to go.
It seems weird that the Mits web site would not detail what this new high contrast screen is going to do.

Could we list again all the feature differences between the 732 and 831, I hope I have them all?

-Black High Gloss finish (732 has Black Gloss)
-180 watt bulb (732 has 150 watt)
-High contrast screen
-Front IEEE 1394 with DV decoder
-Fully-Illuminated Remote (732 has partially illuminated)
-Additional Simple Remote
-VGA-SXGA, 1920 x 1080 Analog (732 does not do this)
-IR Emitter Cable 1(4-headed) (have no idea what this is, 732 has 2-headed)


I called Mitsubishi this afternoon and they said .pdf manuals should be online within 2 weeks for all the 2007 models. We shall see, I will probably have my new TV before the manuals are online, never know though.

There was someone a couple of weeks back that mentioned there may be a $300 rebate for the 65732 and didn't know anything else about it (other models, possible starting Sept 1st). Has anybody heard anything more about potential rebates? The Mitsubishi number I called did not know of any rebates but gave me another number to call. They are not open until tomorrow, so I will try tomorrow to see if I can probe a little deeper on this rebate rumor.

It sure would be nice if one of our forum ISF calibrators could chime in and let us know more about the service menu and how the calibrating a new Mits will be.

I agree, but there hasn't been enough time for that to happen.

I take back what I said. We should try to limit the message text length to preserve network capacity. This one didnt crash my pc but did make my head hurt.

One way to preserve capacity is to review the thread for questions asked a dozen times with 2 dozen answers.

It's not your computer that AVS moderators are concerned about.

"Invalid signal type. If analog PC, change setting in Input Name Menu."

I purchased a 57731 last month. I have seen the same problem with the PC connection. I assumed that it was due to the fact that I connected using a 15 pin to DVI connection. Are you using a true DVI connection? Since the input menu they tell you to change is greyed out and not sellectable I have reset the tv and tried changing the connection type, but nothing has stopped the error message.

I am looking to build a new media center that I hope will overcome this issue.

I purchased the 57731 last month site unseen. I had just finished setting up 2 wd62628 for friends in the prior month. When I saw the new 57" was selling for the same as last years 52's I had to have one. The picture is better than anything I have seen to date. I have a bright room and the picture looks great even with the natural light settings. I do not see any need for a 180 watt display. The black levels on the 731 are very good as well. I even turned down the contrast from the factory max setting to about 75, and the brightness I turned down to 40. The factory settings seemed to hot and saturated. The setup was much easier that last years models.

My only complaints after a month is the remote, and the annoying error message about an analog connection on my PC input. The remote program function seems to be bad. I am not able to program the remote to control any other devices. I also had the remote lockup. It would not activate several of the control buttons. This required removing the batteries and shorting the battery terminals to reset the remote.

I am looking to build a media center to use as DVR. What is the best HDTV PC tuner? Media Center or XP? Any thoughts.

This is my 3rd Mits TV
They all still work great, even the first 35" CRT.
HDTV ROCKS! HD or nothing...
DLP sets are the only repairable HDTVs.
Plasma and LCD's loose quality as time goes on, and DLP does not

I'm using a card that only has DVI-D output, with a DVI-D cable, to a DVI-I (which is both analog and digital) on the back of the TV.

I see no reason why this error should be there. Changing refresh rates does nothing.

m12205 I am not going to continue this debate as it is no longer really pertaining to the subject of this thread, however I will through out that your use of the computer analogy is flawed IMO. I agree with you about the cycle on computers, and now, after a quarter century of PC use, the world has an understanding of computer cycles similar to yours. Even with that though, the "average" consumer is going to expect that computer to last more than 18 months.

'nuff said on my end about this. I am going to buy one of these anyway, get an extended warranty, probably renew that in 5 years assuming my TV still deserves it, and then when that one runs out I will look around and see what is out there.

I hope we all enjoy these new 73x and 831 TVs as much as we all think we will.

Ruin

I don't think the lamp fetish is anything but consumers thinking about what's the most likely thing they're going to replace/repair first on these. But more importantly, why not get the warranty with w bulb replacements when it can be purchased for the same price or cheaper than you can get the repairs-only versions carried by WarrantyByNet and the big chain stores? From what I can see, the Mack Warranty's are more inclusive (2 bulbs) and cheaper (less than $300 vs the $400 for WBN) and you're dealing with a company that's been around since 1936 vs WBN that just popped up in '99. In post 1848 I asked if anyone knows of anything negative about Mack....but they still seem like the best bet to me lacking any evidence to the contrary.

I'm shocked. Websearch a plan# like RMLMP3 or RMT55000 or RMT57500. Nextag results surprised me.

4. Does saying it looks like Plasma a good thing? I really haven't even looked at Plasmas that much because of price and the issues it has.

Yes. A good plasma like Panny, Pioneer, and NEC that is properly calibrated, in other words, not in torch mode, renders a more 3D like picture that most projected TV's cannot achieve because of the SSE.
Also, as far as the PC input, all these new Mits TV's have an all digital DVI interface that can output 1920x1280. There is no difference between the 732 and 831 in this regard. Mitsubishi recognized that many HDTV consumers are looking to integrate their PC's into a home theater system.