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2006 1080P LCoS Comparison (Sony a2000 SXRD and JVC HD-XXFN97) - 2005 Owners Welcome!

post #1 of 229
Thread Starter 
So here is what should be the same between the Sony SXRD a2000 series, and the JVC HD-XXFN97 series:

1) 1080p HDMI inputs.
2) Auto Iris.
3) LCoS technology.
4) No rainbow effect.
5) Less problems than the equivalent 2005 models (hopefully).
6) Should start appearing on store shelves by August.
7) Same image processing as last years models.
8) Bottom speakers.
9) Matching stands.

Here are some differences:

Sony SXRD a2000
A) Offered in 50" ($3,000), 55" ($3,499), and 60" ($3,999)
B) Proven Good Shadow Detail from 2005 models.
C) 2005 fan quieter than JVC 2005 fans.
D) 2005 SSE not as bad as JVCs, but still present.
E) More tweakability on 2005 models.
F) 120 Watt lamp

JVC HD-XXFN97
a) Offered in 56" ($3,499), 61" ($3,799), 70" ($5,499)
b) New auto-iris should help out the shadow detail (how much is yet to be determined).
c) Much thinner (depth) cabinet on 56" and 61" versions.
d) New Bass and sound management system (why does a TV need this?)
e) Better remote (I think).
f) 110 Watt lamp (2005 model)


How likely do you think it to be that JVC will quite down their fan, and reduce SSE? Their thin cabinets are compelling, but not if the other problems persist. If JVC can minimize these two problems while increasing their contrast and shadow detail to roughly match Sony's, JVC might surpass Sony is many people's minds. However, this all has yet to be proven as Sony is probably above JVC in perfomance right now.

JVC pics:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=639834

JVC Press Release:
http://www.jvc.com/press/index.jsp?item=492&pageID=1

SXRD Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=664214

What are your thoughts?
post #2 of 229
Thread Starter 
Also, how does the viewing horizontal viewing angle compare between the SXRD and the JVC (for the 2005 models)? Sony lists the SXRD's viewing angle as 130 degrees, while JVC doesn't list anything (I could find). I notice JVC seems to hide the details of their sets:

- What is the horizontal viewing angle of the JVC?
- What is the pixel rise and fall time on a JVC?
- How does a JVC deal with Video Game lag (480i and 1080i especially)? Does the "Game" video status eliminate lag (or just change some lighting options)?

One other question:
Why does the JVC show gray borders for "regular" 4:3 broadcasts (according to page 75 or the manual)?
post #3 of 229
How about the JVC HD-XXFH97? I'd suggest that be added as part of the discussion as it's basically the same as the JVC HD-XXFN97 with a few tweaks(although I don't know enough about the JVC sets to really comment in detail)
post #4 of 229
One thing that I have noticed about the LCOS sets is that the white lettering can look anything but white after time. In 2005 the JVC's had a service menu adjustment for convergence whereas the Sony's did not. If that stays the same for the new models then the JVC would be my choice given that all other factors(dynamic iris) looked to be fairly equal on paper. Plus, I have seen a lot of color uniformity issues on displays around town on the Sony's that I don't see on the JVC's. ie... green areas in the upper right hand corner.
post #5 of 229
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmpharmacist View Post

How about the JVC HD-XXFH97? I'd suggest that be added as part of the discussion as it's basically the same as the JVC HD-XXFN97 with a few tweaks(although I don't know enough about the JVC sets to really comment in detail)

That's fine with me. I wasn't really sure that the 2006 "FH" series was real since the JVC press release didn't mention it, and the only place I see anything about it is on the tapeworkstexas site.

Do you have any idea what tweaks the FH series should have over the FN series?
post #6 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVBill View Post

That's fine with me. I wasn't really sure that the 2006 "FH" series was real since the JVC press release didn't mention it, and the only place I see anything about it is on the tapeworkstexas site.

Do you have any idea what tweaks the FH series should have over the FN series?

Just whatever I read on Tapeworks. That's also where i saw it.
post #7 of 229
Hi Guys,

I'm thinking of going with the new JVC 70" and just started checking all the threads . It's been a while since I bought my 65" Mitsu (CRT) so it's a re-learning experience with these newer non-CRT technologies . Please bear with me if my questions are noobesque :

What is SSE ?
What is the difference between the JVC models "FN97" and "FH97" .
post #8 of 229
Thread Starter 
SSE = "Silk Screen Effect" = the little sparklies you see in bright parts of the screen caused in part by the cheaper high-gain screen being used. All rear projection projection TVs (without a glass screen) have this problem to varying degrees. I've read (though not experienced) that JVC's SSE is one of the worse.
post #9 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVBill View Post

SSE = "Silk Screen Effect" = the little sparklies you see in bright parts of the screen caused in part by the cheaper high-gain screen being used. All rear projection projection TVs (without a glass screen) have this problem to varying degrees. I've read (though not experienced) that JVC's SSE is one of the worse.

Pick your poison. Glass screen equals reflections. SXRD provides SSE (although I've never noticed it on mine and I have around 4,000 hours on the lamp). In my case (and especially my wife's) I'll take the risk of SSE over reflections any day because of the layout of our home and the fact that my wife refuses to watch TV in a dark room. Reflections from our prior Mits was a major pain in the a**.
post #10 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlb View Post

...because of the layout of our home and the fact that my wife refuses to watch TV in a dark room. Reflections from our prior Mits was a major pain in the a**.

That's one of the main reasons I think it's time to retire mine . Are these newer LCOS sets REALLY bright enough to watch in a fairly well lit room ?
post #11 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJF View Post

That's one of the main reasons I think it's time to retire mine . Are these newer LCOS sets REALLY bright enough to watch in a fairly well lit room ?

I would classify the JVC Lcos sets as some of the brightest sets out there. The ones that I've seen are VERY bright. I'm sure the new ones will be the same.
post #12 of 229
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlb View Post

Reflections from our prior Mits was a major pain in the a**.


Screens on the Mits are removable, if you had gotten off of your posterior and removed the screen you could eliminated the reflections.
post #13 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

I would classify the JVC Lcos sets as some of the brightest sets out there. The ones that I've seen are VERY bright. I'm sure the new ones will be the same.

The main issue with buying a JVC set is it can be hard to find one locally unless you live in a big market and it's kind of scary to buy sight unseen.
post #14 of 229
pbm,

I don't know whether you have HHGregg in your area, but in small town Gerogia they are a great place to see everything side-by-side... including the SXRD and the JVCFH96. I hope that you have that opportunity, for me it was a real eye opener as far as the JVC was concerned.
post #15 of 229
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomboyter View Post

for me it was a real eye opener as far as the JVC was concerned.

How so? Was the JVC worse or better than you expected? In what ways was it worse or better than the SXRD in your opinion?
post #16 of 229
I'm pretty sure my next set will be one of these two.

It would be nice to check out a 1080p JVC in person first though.
post #17 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Screens on the Mits are removable, if you had gotten off of your posterior and removed the screen you could eliminated the reflections.

I guess that if you have a "simple mind" there are "simple solutions".

I was fully aware of that option; but during that period we frequently had grandchildren below 4 years old "flying around" our home. If the Mits screen is removed, the underlying screen is very easily scratched. So, just like I've made the decision that I prefer the SXRD screen to a glass one; I previously made the decision that I didn't want to take the risk of removing the protective Mits screen.

Life is filled with variables and tradeoffs. We each have to evaluate our own situation and attempt to make rational decisions. I don't say that those who prefer glass screens are wrong; I just say that for my situation, I prefer the current SXRD screen.

When you tell me that I could have resolved the problem by "getting off my posterior", you are actually telling me one of three things about yourself. You are either simple minded, very arrogant, or both.
post #18 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomboyter View Post

pbm,

I don't know whether you have HHGregg in your area, but in small town Gerogia they are a great place to see everything side-by-side... including the SXRD and the JVCFH96. I hope that you have that opportunity, for me it was a real eye opener as far as the JVC was concerned.

I did see the JVC and the SXRD next to each other. The JVC won b/c the SXRD had a huge green blob
post #19 of 229
Well I did remove the screen recently and it got rid of the reflections, but then the screen gets washed out from ambient light . Both ways it sucks, which is why I'm looking at getting the JVC .

And in rlb's defense, I had the screen on for the same reason when my kids were younger .
post #20 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmpharmacist View Post

The main issue with buying a JVC set is it can be hard to find one locally unless you live in a big market and it's kind of scary to buy sight unseen.

No Best Buy? Sears did carry them but not sure if they do now.
post #21 of 229
Has JVC corrected the very short lamp life on their sets??
post #22 of 229
Good thread. Based on expected street prices and the new JVC iris, it's going to be hard to pass on the JVC70.
post #23 of 229
From what I can tell the difference between the FN97 and FH97 is that the FH97 has gold plated connectors.
post #24 of 229
I have the JVC 70FH96 for the past 6 months and I would disagree with points B and C. I think the JVC has good details in the blacks. I have watched many black/white (old movies) and dark movies and never has the picture taken away my enjoyment of the movie where I think I missing detail in the movie. I looked at the SXRD when I was looking at sets and it had a tad bit better blacks but nothing to make that much of a difference in my opinion. For point C, I never hear the fan on my JVC except when I have turned everything off and am leaving the room. That is the only time I hear the fan and even then it is lower than what I hear on my computer or the fan in the HD cable box.

I do agree that the JCV has more SSE than the Sony but overall I think the JVC and Sony are equivalent pictures, both have strengths and weaknesses.

Knock on wood but I have not had any problems with my JVC since it arrived but not many people are going to post that they are not having any problems. Only people having problems post them so I think that it makes problems look worse than they really are. If JVC or Sony had the return rate that it looks like from posting I think they would be out of business. When people return 4 different sets because of problems that makes me think that they are picky beyond any reasonably priced TV to meet their requirements. Just my two cents. I know some people are going to disagree with me but my favorite color is blue and for others it is red but neither color is better than the other, just differences in what we like.
post #25 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

No Best Buy? Sears did carry them but not sure if they do now.

The Best Buys that I have been in only have the 720p sets. I did find the 1080 JVC sets at Ultimate Electronics though
post #26 of 229
Are there any differences between how the JVC and Sony handle the upconversion of different source material, ie 480i,480p,720p,1080i --> 1080p ? I recall reading an article that some of the displays did a downcoversion before upconverting and just wondered how the new models handled different input resolutions.
post #27 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepco View Post

Has JVC corrected the very short lamp life on their sets??

I guess only the passage of time will tell. I see comments on this forum about people being assured by sales or service people that lamps made after late '05 are better.

But I'm not sure what you mean by "very short". I got 2500 hours on my first lamp, others on this forum have reported longer or shorter times. A few report failures in under a thousand hours, but although I do not doubt the honesty of such statements, you have to be careful or you will get the wrong impression, since people who are annoyed (as I would be if mine had blown so early) tend to talk about it a lot.
post #28 of 229
I would think that having to replace lamp every year or two would be considered very short lamp life.
post #29 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepco View Post

I would think that having to replace lamp every year or two would be considered very short lamp life.

I sympathise with this, since my previous TV was a Trinitron that ran like a fridge for over 25000 hours from the day I plugged it in, without needing any maintenance or adjustment at all. Maybe the new LED sets will get us to that level of reliability again.

Changing lamps is annoying, since a lamp costs maybe 10% the cost of the TV, but it is certainly easy to do, at least it was on my D-ILA last winter. I understand Sonys are just as simple. As long as the rest of the set is reliable (which it has been so far) I'm not too worried. I just keep a spare lamp on hand, which I think is a sensible precaution for anyone with a mercury-vapour lamp set today.

But bear in mind that like other TV manufacturers JVC doesn't make their own lamps. I have read at various times that they get their lamps from Toshiba, Phillips and Osram. So it's not really just a JVC quality problem, although of course lamp life can be affected by other components in the set, as well as conditions in the individual home such as electric current stability.
post #30 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVBill View Post

So here is what should be the same between the Sony SXRD a2000 series, and the JVC HD-XXFN97 series:

1) 1080p HDMI inputs.
2) Auto Iris.
3) LCoS technology.
4) No rainbow effect.
5) Less problems than the equivalent 2005 models (hopefully).
6) Should start appearing on store shelves by August.
7) Same image processing as last years models.
8) Bottom speakers.
9) Matching stands.

Here are some differences:

Sony SXRD a2000
A) Offered in 50" ($3,000), 55" ($3,499), and 60" ($3,999)
B) Proven Good Shadow Detail from 2005 models.
C) 2005 fan quieter than JVC 2005 fans.
D) 2005 SSE not as bad as JVCs, but still present.
E) More tweakability on 2005 models.
F) 120 Watt lamp

JVC HD-XXFN97
a) Offered in 56" ($3,499), 61" ($3,799), 70" ($5,499)
b) New auto-iris should help out the shadow detail (how much is yet to be determined).
c) Much thinner (depth) cabinet on 56" and 61" versions.
d) New Bass and sound management system (why does a TV need this?)
e) Better remote (I think).
f) 110 Watt lamp (2005 model)


How likely do you think it to be that JVC will quite down their fan, and reduce SSE? Their thin cabinets are compelling, but not if the other problems persist. If JVC can minimize these two problems while increasing their contrast and shadow detail to roughly match Sony's, JVC might surpass Sony is many people's minds. However, this all has yet to be proven as Sony is probably above JVC in perfomance right now.

JVC pics:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=639834

JVC Press Release:
http://www.jvc.com/press/index.jsp?item=492&pageID=1

SXRD Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=664214

What are your thoughts?

AVBill: Since the thread is comparing LCoS technology TVs, is there a reason why the Brillian 6580iFB 1080p LCoS 65 inch TV is not included in the discussion? I am an owner so have personal experience with this TV. Please advise. G.L.D., ABQ, NM
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