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Sony has some explaining to do on Blu ray - Page 3  

post #61 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew P
Film is much better than HD video in my opinion.
I second that.
post #62 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by cawgijoe
I'm assuming that many of you have never seen a picture on a Sony 34" XBR monitor such as the 34XBR960 that received temendous accolades in the AV press and is still considered the benchmark for HD quality.

If not, then I can understand why you would say that a bigger screen is needed to view HD.

You can be fifteen feet away and see the difference.
Most people's vision isn't as good as yours, as you can see full 1080i on s 34inch screen 15 feet away. :rolleyes:

My 65" 1080i CRT rear projection screen with seating at 8-9 feet away looks beautiful when viewing HD-DVD without eye-strain.

A friend of mine that hasn't seen my HD-DVD setup, came by last night to see both Van Helsing & Chronicles of Riddick, he was totally impressed by the picture detail and how clear it looked especially in the dark scenes. Now he's getting a HD-DVD player with the need to upgrade his 800x600 front projector. :D

...Angelo
post #63 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by cawgijoe
More crap and BS.

I don't even know why I'm wasting my time here. My set displays HD in glorious 1080i that is very easily seen just by flipping channels from regular def to hi def.
No one is picking on your TV set. I have heard that it produces a wonderful picture.

As a display gets smaller, artifacts and noise are increasingly hard to see....this is a simple law of physics!
post #64 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by HorrorScope
Disagree. I use a bedroom 32" 4:3 CRT HD TV all the time. Substantial over SD, substantial. Not sure where this is continuing to come from HD looks better then SD on damn near any size and HD isn't all about resolution, they have much deeper saturating colors, which is noticeable as well.
This is way off topic anyhow......

No one is saying that HD won't look better on a smaller set as well. Why bother getting HD for a 32" television is what I am inferring. You will not get the full 'Wow' factor until you move to a larger set.
post #65 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Doogie
No one is picking on your TV set. I have heard that it produces a wonderful picture.

As a display gets smaller, artifacts and noise are increasingly hard to see....this is a simple law of physics!
I 2nd that thats why you can make a 9inch tv look like a full HD vs a 60inch tv......LOL.
post #66 of 221
According to Projector Central BluRay is a dud!

http://www.projectorcentral.com/blu-...tialreport.htm
post #67 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Doogie
No one is picking on your TV set. I have heard that it produces a wonderful picture.

As a display gets smaller, artifacts and noise are increasingly hard to see....this is a simple law of physics!

This is why I can't understand how the 42" displays at BB and local stores displaying HD-DVD look so much worse then my broadcast HD on a 51" screen. Shouldn't the 42" screen at least look better then standard DVD's on much bigger screens (which it doesn't). They even had similar sets in the direct vicinity being fed an HD loop that looked much better then the HD-DVD display. Maybe I need to force someone at the store to change settings until it actually looks good. I'd love to see a player beat my broadcast HD because it would be a beautiful picture. AArrghh. :)
post #68 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Doogie
Using HD, I would not waste my time with a monitor which is less than 42". Yes, you can plainly see some differences, but they are not substantial.
I bought a 34" Sony - step below the 960 (410?) and put it right at the footboard of my bed. Looks great and I can easily distinguish HD from faux or poor HD. Viewing distance is typically about 6 or 7 feet though.
post #69 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Doogie
This is way off topic anyhow......

No one is saying that HD won't look better on a smaller set as well. Why bother getting HD for a 32" television is what I am inferring. You will not get the full 'Wow' factor until you move to a larger set.
Why? Because it DOES LOOK BETTER! A lot better, just like how a XBox 360 will look a lot better on a smaller HD, your just breaking through into a new realm going HD over SD.

I see it every Mon-Fri on Late Night TV, that's about the only TV I watch regularly. That is why I won't tell someone not to go HD anything because of screen size, it is still dramatic imo. I would say 19" and up you will see the difference. Do y
ou not see a difference on your computer screen running different resolutions?

Full Wow factor? Well only the person with THEE BEST OF THE BEST ever gets FULL WOW FACTOR. Even on my 100" I suppose someone with a better projector and bigger screen has me well beat.

Not a big deal really, but if I was in a conversation with a friend and they asked me if their HDTV (no matter the size) would be greatly enhanced if they fed it a HD source I'd tell them to run don't walk and thank me later.
post #70 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwakaruk
This is why I can't understand how the 42" displays at BB and local stores displaying HD-DVD look so much worse then my broadcast HD on a 51" screen. Shouldn't the 42" screen at least look better then standard DVD's on much bigger screens (which it doesn't). They even had similar sets in the direct vicinity being fed an HD loop that looked much better then the HD-DVD display. Maybe I need to force someone at the store to change settings until it actually looks good. I'd love to see a player beat my broadcast HD because it would be a beautiful picture. AArrghh. :)

Good luck! BB's had their palms greased by the BluRay mfrs to make the HD-DVDs look lousy. :rolleyes:
post #71 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwakaruk
This is why I can't understand how the 42" displays at BB and local stores displaying HD-DVD look so much worse then my broadcast HD on a 51" screen. Shouldn't the 42" screen at least look better then standard DVD's on much bigger screens (which it doesn't). They even had similar sets in the direct vicinity being fed an HD loop that looked much better then the HD-DVD display. Maybe I need to force someone at the store to change settings until it actually looks good. I'd love to see a player beat my broadcast HD because it would be a beautiful picture. AArrghh. :)

What makes you think that anyone bothered to calibrate these displays. From my experience, LCD and plasma displays benefit the most from a decent calibration. Some of the 'garbage' people have been seeing may be generated by the poorly calibrated sets too. Whenever I ask this question of the 'Chain' staff, they look at me kinda funny and say that the units are set to the 'factory'calibration recommendations......whatever that means.
post #72 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by HorrorScope
Why? Because it DOES LOOK BETTER! A lot better, just like how a XBox 360 will look a lot better on a smaller HD, your just breaking through into a new realm going HD over SD.

I see it every Mon-Fri on Late Night TV, that's about the only TV I watch regularly. That is why I won't tell someone not to go HD anything because of screen size, it is still dramatic imo. I would say 19" and up you will see the difference. Do y
ou not see a difference on your computer screen running different resolutions?

Full Wow factor? Well only the person with THEE BEST OF THE BEST ever gets FULL WOW FACTOR. Even on my 100" I suppose someone with a better projector and bigger screen has me well beat.

Not a big deal really, but if I was in a conversation with a friend and they asked me if their HDTV (no matter the size) would be greatly enhanced if they fed it a HD source I'd tell them to run don't walk and thank me later.

I don't disagree with you about the HD source, but I was under the impression that you guys are hooking up your HD players to these sized televisions. IMO this is a waste of the HD player capability, but to each their own. Your HD player in this case cost about as much as your TV.
post #73 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwakaruk
This is why I can't understand how the 42" displays at BB and local stores displaying HD-DVD look so much worse then my broadcast HD on a 51" screen. Shouldn't the 42" screen at least look better then standard DVD's on much bigger screens (which it doesn't). They even had similar sets in the direct vicinity being fed an HD loop that looked much better then the HD-DVD display. Maybe I need to force someone at the store to change settings until it actually looks good. I'd love to see a player beat my broadcast HD because it would be a beautiful picture. AArrghh. :)
Agree something isn't right but imo it's a leap of faith, you know your best SD signal you have at home is your DVD right? It will be the same for HD Opticals if the filming method is apples to apples. The best demo loop I saw recently at fry's was a demo loop showing nature and spreading icing on a cake. Reason? It's how it was filmed or more clarified that was Video, J6P is going to be really confused when he sees HD Video vs. Film Transfers, chances are Video is going to look better. Those little demos ARE THE BEST HD I'VE EVER SEEN. Too bad I wouldn't really want to actually watch it for any amounts of time. If you had a HD CAMCORDER that would imo the best technical picture one has ever seen, most films are filmed differently and they don’t transfer as perfectly as Video.

So 99.9% of the films ever made were never made to look absolutely the best on a consumer brand display as where those demo video discs were. So when comparing that J6P won't be all that impressed. With that said again it's a leap of faith based on realities we have seen. When you get that player home and play movies that will be the best picture you have ever seen for that movie. It may not be the best you ever seen HD period as Live Sports isn't film and imo it will still stand up rather well if not surpass HD Movies. Is that making sense?
post #74 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Doogie
I don't disagree with you about the HD source, but I was under the impression that you guys are hooking up your HD players to these sized televisions. IMO this is a waste of the HD player capability, but to each their own. Your HD player in this case cost about as much as your TV.
IMO if one can see a noticeable difference then it's then their decision what they want to do. But I think it's fair to tell them that indeed even on their 32" HD there is a great difference between a SD feed and a HD feed. It's still many times the resolution and using higher bit color. A better picture no matter the size is a better picture.

It's like anything, once you get out of looking at the picture and start watching the movie for what it is, your mind gets sucked into that movie (if it's a good one) and size becomes a much smaller factor. Like adjusting an EQ, your ears have an auto-balancer that re-adjusts itself after a minute or so as you fiddle with the EQ for a better sound, your ears will negate a good part of that shortly.

Or like when I'm done watching a movie on the 32" TV (I have a 100" whooper mind you) that I enjoyed. I still really enjoyed it and got all the plots, sights etc, I never felt like I was ever alone in feeling this way. It’s when you take numbers out of the equation and factor in those “intangibles†in life that imo are very real, those intaginbles negate those numbers we hold dearly to (much like real life sports). It doesn't take 100" to really enjoy a movie; it's just a little extra treat to watch a movie that way. HD isn’t need either, it’s just that extra treat. Mind games FTW!
post #75 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by cawgijoe
Ken.....I accept that completely, but it sure doesn't bode well for selling HD-DVD at this particular store especially to any regular Joe (not nuts like us) who take one look and wonder why the picture is noisy when it's suppossed to be the next big thing.
Retailers are so inconsistent, that what you find the case as at one location will be the exact opposite at another. In spite of that, they still move boxes.
post #76 of 221
Cawgijoe, you think it is crap that the smaller the screen the less the difference? You don't get out much do you? :D
post #77 of 221
Only if the viewing distance is constant. I guarantee, no matter how big your screen is, it doesn't look that impressive from where I'm sitting.
post #78 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Doogie
This is way off topic anyhow......

No one is saying that HD won't look better on a smaller set as well. Why bother getting HD for a 32" television is what I am inferring. You will not get the full 'Wow' factor until you move to a larger set.
You are sooooooo wrong. A 32" Sony HD crt tube set will definitely show the PQ difference better than any of the dlp,lcd or plasma out there.
post #79 of 221
I think you would be impressed if you were sitting 14 foot or 20 foot away. I have NEVER had anyone over who wasn't...
post #80 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Doogie
What makes you think that anyone bothered to calibrate these displays. From my experience, LCD and plasma displays benefit the most from a decent calibration. Some of the 'garbage' people have been seeing may be generated by the poorly calibrated sets too. Whenever I ask this question of the 'Chain' staff, they look at me kinda funny and say that the units are set to the 'factory'calibration recommendations......whatever that means.
I don't think for a second that anyone bothered to calibrate these displays. I think you're right on with the LCD/Plasma observation though. I've yet to see an LCD display or plasma that even comes close to the picture quality of my RP CRT. But then again, I highly doubt I've ever seen one of these t.v.'s properly set up.
post #81 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by HorrorScope
Agree something isn't right but imo it's a leap of faith, you know your best SD signal you have at home is your DVD right? It will be the same for HD Opticals if the filming method is apples to apples. The best demo loop I saw recently at fry's was a demo loop showing nature and spreading icing on a cake. Reason? It's how it was filmed or more clarified that was Video, J6P is going to be really confused when he sees HD Video vs. Film Transfers, chances are Video is going to look better. Those little demos ARE THE BEST HD I'VE EVER SEEN. Too bad I wouldn't really want to actually watch it for any amounts of time. If you had a HD CAMCORDER that would imo the best technical picture one has ever seen, most films are filmed differently and they don’t transfer as perfectly as Video.

So 99.9% of the films ever made were never made to look absolutely the best on a consumer brand display as where those demo video discs were. So when comparing that J6P won't be all that impressed. With that said again it's a leap of faith based on realities we have seen. When you get that player home and play movies that will be the best picture you have ever seen for that movie. It may not be the best you ever seen HD period as Live Sports isn't film and imo it will still stand up rather well if not surpass HD Movies. Is that making sense?

Makes sense to me. And I agree that it would be a leap of faith to purchase either of these player sight unseen, or worse in this case, seen - but really poorly seen. I want to purchase the Toshiba but will wait. If the Toshiba didn't retail for $700 +taxes (in Canada) and had 5 channel HD sound I would have purchased it already. Hopefully Sony doesn't price gouge non US locals as well but early indication is they are no better. Since I can't seem to find a bargain on any HD player; I'll patiently wait it out for a bit. :)
post #82 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by cawgijoe
You know it's funny.....I read all this stuff about how poor the Samsung and Blu-Ray is yet when I go see it for myself, the picture is pretty good. So is HD-DVD.

But, you know what?

It's not as good as my HD OTA or my HD from D*, especially HDnet and the MPEG4 locals.

These two boxes don't excite me to want to run and buy them. :(
There is no question on this great earth that of the current "boxes" Blu-ray is 100% crap, I went and with my own eyes saw the BB display and it was laughable who in their right mind would EVER like this?! It was seriously worse than my worst SD DVD. On the other hand, HD DVD is absolutely more pristine than your HDnet and your HD OTA, not a single question, every reviewer has remarked on its clarity... You must be drinking the blu-cool-aid. NOW, whether or not you are willing to put your money where your mouth is and take it home to your personally calibrated set and try it out is really your business, BUT until it is in your house COMPARED TO your HD OTA and HD from D* then you cannot compare the two... Why not check it out if you HATE it then take it back and get a refund, you have like 30 days!
post #83 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwakaruk
Makes sense to me. And I agree that it would be a leap of faith to purchase either of these player sight unseen, or worse in this case, seen - but really poorly seen. I want to purchase the Toshiba but will wait. If the Toshiba didn't retail for $700 +taxes (in Canada) and had 5 channel HD sound I would have purchased it already. Hopefully Sony doesn't price gouge non US locals as well but early indication is they are no better. Since I can't seem to find a bargain on any HD player; I'll patiently wait it out for a bit. :)
Greetings

HAve to look a bit harder. BB has 15% off sales every 10 days or so on the DVD players. Early bird specials ... on the web.

Regards
post #84 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by cawgijoe
You know it's funny.....I read all this stuff about how poor the Samsung and Blu-Ray is yet when I go see it for myself, the picture is pretty good. So is HD-DVD.

But, you know what?

It's not as good as my HD OTA or my HD from D*, especially HDnet and the MPEG4 locals.

These two boxes don't excite me to want to run and buy them. :(

Cawgijoe, I'm am totally confused with your view with regards to PQ of both formats. You now state that both Blu ray and HD have good quality. But now fall short of OTA as well as D*. In an earlier post you claim Blue Ray was Supreme and that HD DVD was underwhelming. You seem to have no clue as to what you are talking about. Your opinions are over the map now. I am beginning to wonder if you have even seen either format. I'm sure if others search and find your post they will see what I am talking about. Please leave opinions to those that really care about either format and have trully experienced watching either, so that others may make an educated decision as to purchase or not.
post #85 of 221
His views are laughable. Especially knowing he is concerned about how they will look on a 34" screen... :D
post #86 of 221
I went to my local Best Buy (Nassau Park - West Windsor, NJ) today to do a comparison between HD-DVD and Blu-ray. Last week the HD-DVD player was hooked up to the Westinghouse 42" 1080p LCD and I was hoping to compare that setup to the Blu-ray display (the Magnolia guys said they were going to be set up on 2 adjacent endcaps.

The Samsung Blu-ray player was hooked up to a Samsung 40" 1080p LCD, and I thought the picture looked great. However, it's clear that source material is critical, as the demo loop and movie previews were wildly inconsistent on the BD player. There was a Swiss watch segment that was startling in its clarity.

I then looked at the next endcap for the HD-DVD player/Westinghouse setup only to see the HD-DVD player hooked up to an open box LG 720p LCD. What the $#$#???

Someone's not playing fair.

But despite the negative reviews in this forum and elsewhere, I thought that Blu-ray looked fantastic, although the $500 difference has thrown me for a loop. They did have T2, which almost swayed me, but now I think I'm going to wait to see what happens next.
post #87 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod
Cawgijoe, you think it is crap that the smaller the screen the less the difference? You don't get out much do you? :D
Not what I said.

People here are saying that with my teeny weenie 34" screen (which isn't that small by the way), I can't tell the difference between HD and SD.....because the screen is too small........now that is pure crap. :)
post #88 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by eizenga13
There is no question on this great earth that of the current "boxes" Blu-ray is 100% crap, I went and with my own eyes saw the BB display and it was laughable who in their right mind would EVER like this?! It was seriously worse than my worst SD DVD. On the other hand, HD DVD is absolutely more pristine than your HDnet and your HD OTA, not a single question, every reviewer has remarked on its clarity... You must be drinking the blu-cool-aid. NOW, whether or not you are willing to put your money where your mouth is and take it home to your personally calibrated set and try it out is really your business, BUT until it is in your house COMPARED TO your HD OTA and HD from D* then you cannot compare the two... Why not check it out if you HATE it then take it back and get a refund, you have like 30 days!
Troll
post #89 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtvhdtv
Cawgijoe, I'm am totally confused with your view with regards to PQ of both formats. You now state that both Blu ray and HD have good quality. But now fall short of OTA as well as D*. In an earlier post you claim Blue Ray was Supreme and that HD DVD was underwhelming. You seem to have no clue as to what you are talking about. Your opinions are over the map now. I am beginning to wonder if you have even seen either format. I'm sure if others search and find your post they will see what I am talking about. Please leave opinions to those that really care about either format and have trully experienced watching either, so that others may make an educated decision as to purchase or not.
Ok another excited personal attack.....must be getting you excited.

I guess I need to explain to you since you obviously can't comprehend.

The first time I saw Blu-Ray without comparing it to HD-DVD, Blu-Ray looked very good to me playing 50 First Dates. I was told that I was a moron because I thought the picture looked good. Nice people on this forum. I had the BB guys hook up the HD-DVD player to the Samsung display that the Blu-Ray player was hooked up to and noticed the mosquito noise that I've taled about. Everything else about the picture was fine....that noice drove me nuts.

I went back the next day after they had hooked up the HD-DVD player to it's own separate monitor, a Westinghouse and spend about an hour re-looking at both pictures.......I still saw the mosquito noise on the HD-DVD display. Futher looking at the Blu-Ray setup, there was no noise and the picture was good, but I did begin to noitice that the picture was a bit soft.

Am I suppossed to lie and tell everyone that I thought everyhting was hunky-dorry? I think not. That was not the way I was brought up.

I hope this explains my current position to you.

Buy what you want...I could care less, but I would appreciate it if you would not accuse me of lying. It makes you look less than credible.
post #90 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by eizenga13
There is no question on this great earth that of the current "boxes" Blu-ray is 100% crap, I went and with my own eyes saw the BB display and it was laughable who in their right mind would EVER like this?! It was seriously worse than my worst SD DVD. On the other hand, HD DVD is absolutely more pristine than your HDnet and your HD OTA, not a single question, every reviewer has remarked on its clarity... You must be drinking the blu-cool-aid. NOW, whether or not you are willing to put your money where your mouth is and take it home to your personally calibrated set and try it out is really your business, BUT until it is in your house COMPARED TO your HD OTA and HD from D* then you cannot compare the two... Why not check it out if you HATE it then take it back and get a refund, you have like 30 days!
I was in BB today, BR looked like Sh**. I had seen the HD DVD display in the same store last week, but it was replaced with the Samsung unit. They had sold the display HD DVD unit. The Samsung had a lot of what looked like little bugs crawling all over the screen. Asked one of the clerks about it and he said it wasn't set up properly yet. He didn't have an answer to why not. I asked about HD DVD and he said they would have it in stock until 7/18. I went next door to walmart (Katy, TX Fry Road) and they had three HD-D1. Bought one.
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