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Some insight on the dual layer 50GB discs.  

post #1 of 173
Thread Starter 
http://www.hddvd.org/messageboard/to...2d6949989974e6

Here are the two posts from the link I fine most interesting.

To quote, what Bill Hunt said was:
******* Start of Quote ******
"By the way, on the subject Blu-ray Disc, we've confirmed with our industry contacts that pre-release 50GB dual-layer Blu-ray titles have been pressed and are working just fine with prototype hardware in testing. What's apparently happening now is that the replicators are working to be able to reliably manufacture them in high quantities."
****** End of Quote *******

This is really nothing new. We can make a few DL BD discs by going through hundreds of throw-aways. At least enough to get a few samples out for testing. But we've got no way of reliably making them in bulk. Until then, BD50 is a pipe dream at the mass consumer level. We have to manually (with much time consumed) test each disc because when yields are this low, statistical sampling fails to be useful.

Brother, that won't work when you want to make 10 million discs!

And a follow up post here.


"Yes, I am directly involved in this stuff.

But there are some things that I can't talk about without giving away who I am. Which I don't want to do because the company I work for is a neutral party to all of this. You know how it is with information leaks. Sooner or later with enough careful attention they can triangulate onto the source. That would be bad for the company and for me personally.

I'm neutral to the extent that the company I work for profits no matter which format succeeds - so long as one of them does succeed. However, having said that, I can't say that I am completely neutral because I'm pissed at Sony and the BDA right now for putting us all into a bind by hyping technology that they haven't got the bugs worked out of right now.

HD-DVD is a beautiful thing by comparison from our vantage point."
post #2 of 173
I bet he works for ToysRus :)
post #3 of 173
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rover2002
I bet he works for ToysRus :)
We better hope so otherwise we could be in for a long wait.
post #4 of 173
My guess: Disney.
post #5 of 173
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbyard
My guess: Disney.
Disney? Because of the screen name? Could be but I think there are several replication services in that general area as well.
post #6 of 173
If he is right, this goes right in hand with Amir's comment about a DL BD disc costing "hundreds" to make. While he might not mean "hundreds" literally, it's probaly way too impractical to even consider a mass release on DL BD media.

At this point, the BD camp needs to compete and price and adopt VC1 (or mpeg4 as I'm curious to see how well mpeg4 can compete with VC1).
post #7 of 173
I am just upset that Sony could have pulled something like this, and not many people are calling them out on it. It seems they would rather another non-war SACD/DVD-Audio situation than lose the war. I guess that should be expected to some degree, but couldn't their studios just start their double/triple dipping all over again with a new format anyway even if it isn't BD?
post #8 of 173
Exactly! SUPERBIT!!!!
post #9 of 173
Upset, this is typical Sony. Smoke, marketing, and mirrors. People usually hold off and buy what Sony tries to ram down our throats.
post #10 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack
Exactly! SUPERBIT!!!!
If it takes 100 tries to get one Superbit Dual Layer version to actually work. And then someone has to sit there test the movie by fully watching it for hiccups and the dual layer transition. At 10 bucks an hour for the tester alone and about 20 cents per waisted Blu-Ray disc that they turn into a coaster. It would cost about 40 bucks more for a two hour movie on top of the original price.
post #11 of 173
Ouch. If this is true (and I bet it is but no doubt some bluray diehards will say it isn't) then damn...hope for their sake they can get this stuff working more efficiently.
post #12 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbyard
My guess: Disney.
We need a thread where everyone can guess where he works. That "triangulate" thing sounds interesting. Seriously, it sounds like we're a long way from getting the dual layer disks. That is really bad news, because it means that all of the titles in the near future are going to be BD 25.
post #13 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermans
At 10 bucks an hour for the tester alone and about 20 cents per waisted Blu-Ray disc that they turn into a coaster.
Any of these companies would pass on a lot more cost than the guys wages. Even at $10/hr wages it would be a lot more than that for somebody paying a replication house to get 2 hours worth of their time (even if they could verify a 2 hour movie in 2 hours). And I'm sure 20 cents per wasted BluRay disk is way too low. They have to pay for the replication machines and this is a new technology. I would be surprised if the wasted dual layer disks added less than $1 a piece on average at this point. Oh, and if half the disks that got to the test viewer were good and half were bad then there would be his time watching a disk before finding a fault with it.

--Darin
post #14 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by fire407
We need a thread where everyone can guess where he works. That "triangulate" thing sounds interesting. Seriously, it sounds like we're a long way from getting the dual layer disks. That is really bad news, because it means that all of the titles in the near future are going to be BD 25.
It didn't sound like that to me. Actually, it didn't sound like anything regarding BD-50, whether it's a long way off or near-future.
post #15 of 173
How are they "verifying" these things? Do they throw it in a reader and do a bit compare or is it more old school?
post #16 of 173
I know where he works. They are impartial, having to support both camps, HD DVD and BD. They have a very nice setup, with test lines for both. There also happens to be a test house next door ("testing" is done using machines, by the way).
post #17 of 173
So what standards are they using?

I recall there are PI and PO errors for DVDs and above a certain amount these things are considered "bad"

Are multiple manufacturers' readers used to sample the errors? I recall different drive designs can handle marginal discs better than others and it is best to test with the worst reader. Is there only 1 BD reader out right now or multiple?
post #18 of 173
I also agree dl will be used for superbit type movies for a while (and will cost more because of it so people already pay for for superbit) ...if dl was really at a point that they could reliably manufacture it they would have gone dl from the start.
post #19 of 173
Maybe they'll market it so that the SL media is "HD Movies" where as movies on DL media costing a lot more is "Super/Beyond HD." Then the angle you'd see is that "we give you a higher level of HD, that's never been seen before and you can do it all on one box." Marketing is so much fun!
post #20 of 173
That "BurbankWallFly" was the originator of the "BD mastered under 21 GB to improve yields" false rumour.

His credibility is zero.
post #21 of 173
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grubert
That "BurbankWallFly" was the originator of the "BD mastered under 21 GB to improve yields" false rumour.

His credibility is zero.
I guess we will find out around November if there are no 50GB discs in sight.
post #22 of 173
If BD50 doesn't show up in quantity in October (the month Sony says they'll show up), how much trouble will BD be in?
post #23 of 173
Couple of things.

Sony has to just put out one or two movies on BD50. Then in all their PR they can say BD can do "upto" 50GB.

Second by being a little more careful in authroing, they can get better PQ without BD50 - may be not as good as HD DVD - but better than HOFD. That and PS3 is all they need to fight the war.

Peronsally, now I beleive the first format to get a player out below $150 (or $200) has the best chance to win the war. Irrespective of PQ and other things. DVD is still the favorite to win - with downloads being the darkhorse.
post #24 of 173
^ And imo that is how they play and can see that EXACTLY happening. The 360 has HD DVD coming and I believe it's going to be reasonably priced and between just the game machines I most likely would go 360 over the PS3, with their already proven track record with that unit being out, using proven technology. Really doesn't that all sound familiar? :) It really is an amazing situation; it seems Sony as we know it has their biggest holiday season ever coming up. It must be nuts in-house there right about now.
post #25 of 173
Well - I just don't believe BD claims all is good.

I'll assume not and go on with life.

When they prove it, I'll adjust my decisions accordingly...
post #26 of 173
So as of right now the only thing BR has going for it is more studio support and the fact Toshiba couldn't market water to Desert dwellers and make enough players.
If Sony was smart, they could end this thing right now by going to VC-1. With the studios backing and the CE BR supporters, even with a smaller disk size, they could still win this thing. Oh yeah, thrown in the fact there retailers are pushing and promoting the BR format and not HD-DVD and it is as easy as spending money. Tioshiba only has one advantage and that is price.

HD-DVD, RIP!
post #27 of 173
pressing 50gig disc is not easy, but very doable when blu ray releases 50gig disc you will get more interactivity of the movie be more involved into the movie.
post #28 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUR_RAY_NO_1
pressing 50gig disc is not easy, but very doable when blu ray releases 50gig disc you will get more interactivity of the movie be more involved into the movie.
More interactivity?? I guess not better PQ huh?? Wow you sure sounds like some Sony PR talking there!!
post #29 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUR_RAY_NO_1
pressing 50gig disc is not easy, but very doable when blu ray releases 50gig disc you will get more interactivity of the movie be more involved into the movie.

Hmmm... Do you have a blu-ray player yet? What titles have you seen? What types of content "will get more interactivity of the movie be more involved into the movie"? Man, I just want to let you know that i love you.
post #30 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeta_msz_006
More interactivity?? I guess not better PQ huh?? Wow you sure sounds like some Sony PR talking there!!
the picture quality alone already is best anyone has seen so how can it get better than 1080p? the current crop of HD dvd only provides 1080i display you cant get better than blu ray alone due to its high resolution capability. :)
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AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Players › Some insight on the dual layer 50GB discs.