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Some insight on the dual layer 50GB discs. - Page 3  

post #61 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacon
1080p displays are hideously expensive compared to 1080i displays. Far more 1080i displays will be bought than 1080p displays, so for most people 1080i is the best they really need. Thus HD-DVD is more practical than Blu-ray for 1080i displays. If Blu-ray's only claim is 1080p, then it is doomed, as 1080p will never be more than a niche market. 1080i is good enough and cheap enough that TV manufactures have no incentive to make 1080p displays affordable.
Let's all say it together now: HD-DVD can also do 1080p! It's just that the current player out there cannot yet output at 1080p.
post #62 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by nataraj
You know that everything thats great in the lab doesn't get commercialized because they figure out that it would be too costly and thus the market won't support it. Or it keeps getting postponed and keeps slipping - like SED or fuel cell cars or even the halographic discs. How do we know BD DL is not that kind of a technology ?

Very true. But even Sony has stated, it's a future-proof technology. They've demonstrated that BD50 is possible, they just have to work out the kinks (just like DVD9 when it first came out).

Don't get me wrong, HD-DVD is smoking Blu-Ray right now, it's not even close. But let's see what happens come the holiday season (when the public is in a spending mood).
post #63 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhdWho
That was promised with DVD, never happened.

I don't think anyone really cares that much about interactivity in a movie, and those few studios that do bother with it will have to have cost justification to do so.

Interactivity, few and far between.
I dont know I like the interactivity of HD dvd itself thats always nice I can watch movie and still interact with dvd itself.
post #64 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUR_RAY_NO_1
I dont know I like the interactivity of HD dvd itself thats always nice I can watch movie and still interact with dvd itself.
I stick my figners in the hole of my Basic Instinct dvd all the time to. Some times i use it as my pepperidge farm goldfish holder. My friends and I play Ultimate Frisbee with it. And my girlfriend even keeps it in her pocketbook as a mirror for when she goes out. Is this the kind of interactivity your looking for?
post #65 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwilson
Frustrating, but everybody seems to be forgetting that Blu-ray is much newer technology than HD-DVD and more teething problems are to be expected.
Are you a professional apologist, or do you just play one in the forum?

"Newer technology"? What's so new about it? The major difference between HD DVD and Blu-ray is that Blu-ray made the wrong-headed decision to put the data layer too close to the disc surface, which has only succeeded in dramatically reducing production yields.

HD DVD is a natural evolution of the past 9 years of development of the DVD format and has jumped out of the gate ready to go. HD DVD has learned from DVD. Blu-ray, on the other hand, has decided to start over from scratch for no sound reason, forgetting everything that DVD taught us for the past 9 years, and is now stumbling around like an infant with no idea what it's doing or where to go.

Newer technology... Give me a break. If there had never been such a thing as digital video for the better part of the past decade, and there was no competition so clearly better developed and implemented, perhaps we might forgive Blu-ray for these embarrassing growing pains. But in light of those factors, what Blu-ray has given us so far is shameful, an absolute disgrace.
post #66 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpalmieri1203
I stick my figners in the hole of my Basic Instinct dvd all the time to. Some times i use it as my pepperidge farm goldfish holder. My friends and I play Ultimate Frisbee with it. And my girlfriend even keeps it in her pocketbook as a mirror for when she goes out. Is this the kind of interactivity your looking for?
just wanted to say thats pretty rude..... :eek: if thats not considered trolling and Im considered trolling then I should start to say the same things to be considered on the, "in crowd here" :rolleyes:
post #67 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpalmieri1203
I stick my figners in the hole of my Basic Instinct dvd all the time to. Some times i use it as my pepperidge farm goldfish holder. My friends and I play Ultimate Frisbee with it. And my girlfriend even keeps it in her pocketbook as a mirror for when she goes out. Is this the kind of interactivity your looking for?
hahaahahahaahah god damn, that's funny!
post #68 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpalmieri1203
I stick my figners in the hole of my Basic Instinct dvd all the time to. Some times i use it as my pepperidge farm goldfish holder. My friends and I play Ultimate Frisbee with it. And my girlfriend even keeps it in her pocketbook as a mirror for when she goes out. Is this the kind of interactivity your looking for?

Pervert!!!!
post #69 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUR_RAY_NO_1
just wanted to say thats pretty rude..... :eek: if thats not considered trolling and Im considered trolling then I should start to say the same things to be considered on the, "in crowd here" :rolleyes:
Well I've asked you to respond to what kinds of interactivity blu-ray will have and you respond with stuff like:

Number one be blue ray on my display because 1080p is the highest resolution if you cant afford it dont buy blu ray check your eyes cause its different for everyone.


Or one of your other greatest hits man. Feel free to respond to me in whatever form you please. I know your just joking around here as I am too.
post #70 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by nataraj
Couple of things.

Sony has to just put out one or two movies on BD50. Then in all their PR they can say BD can do "upto" 50GB.

Second by being a little more careful in authroing, they can get better PQ without BD50 - may be not as good as HD DVD - but better than HOFD. That and PS3 is all they need to fight the war.

Peronsally, now I beleive the first format to get a player out below $150 (or $200) has the best chance to win the war. Irrespective of PQ and other things. DVD is still the favorite to win - with downloads being the darkhorse.
It would be difficult to see how with $30-40 or so in royalties per player, and expensive blue lasers, and 1GB of memory per player (etc.), that $150-$200 can be reached sooner than 2-3 years minimum.

Did you mean "DVD" is still the favorite to win?

Gary
post #71 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpalmieri1203
Well I've asked you to respond to what kinds of interactivity blu-ray will have and you respond with stuff like:

Number one be blue ray on my display because 1080p is the highest resolution if you cant afford it dont buy blu ray check your eyes cause its different for everyone.


Or one of your other greatest hits man. Feel free to respond to me in whatever form you please. I know your just joking around here as I am too.
naw I already reported you, but moderators told me you have a money stake in the forums and they wont do nothing to you....so I guess no big deal anymore....well I was talking about interacvivity as in she sticks her fingers up my ass and wiggles it around...now thats true blu ray interactivity that HD dvd can not give me.....man wha thave the forums gone to from blu ray to sticking fingers up each others asses... :) :) any joiners here? how about a circle jerk? :D
post #72 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR1
hahaahahahaahah god damn, that's funny!
not as funny as him sticking his fingers up your ******* :D
post #73 of 173
Moderators Note:
BLUR_RAY_NO_1 has been permanently banned from AVS. Offending posts removed.
post #74 of 173
Thank you, Ken. That poster was extremely frustrating.
post #75 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpalmieri1203
I stick my figners in the hole of my Basic Instinct dvd all the time to. Some times i use it as my pepperidge farm goldfish holder. My friends and I play Ultimate Frisbee with it. And my girlfriend even keeps it in her pocketbook as a mirror for when she goes out. Is this the kind of interactivity your looking for?
I drill a small hole in them and hang them on a string on my cherry tree in the front yard to scare the blu jays away. Today, just when I was about to pick them, all of the cherries disappeared. Darn blu jays... :D
post #76 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H
Moderators Note:
BLUR_RAY_NO_1 has been permanently banned from AVS. Offending posts removed.
Oh i was just starting to warm up to him :(
post #77 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H
Moderators Note:
BLUR_RAY_NO_1 has been permanently banned from AVS. Offending posts removed.

I will miss him ;)
post #78 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwilson
Frustrating, but everybody seems to be forgetting that Blu-ray is much newer technology than HD-DVD and more teething problems are to be expected. At some point I assume the yield will be comparable to HD-DVD. There are all sorts of factors that go into when the new players and software are to be released, most of which have nothing to do with whether the technology is ready or not, and most of which are related to marketing issues. The techies would vote for waiting six more months, when the stuff is working perfectly. The marketing types probably voted for releasing the product several months ago, before HD-DVD came out. The current release was the compromise. HD-DVD went through similar discussions, and was released before the player was completely ready, but the image quality was almost perfect.
Sony will release sample quantities of BD 50 for SPHE and other studios shortly and should have capacity and use BD 50 for some big titles in Nov. and Dec..

They are birthing at this stage and everyone needs to be patient for the format to have the best potential.

They are also working on BD 100 and up to 200 and are testing bit rates much higher than 24-25 (Amir’s last number for MPEG2 transparency as of April---- apparently it changed this week to 30 :eek: I do not know how high it will be in August ;) ).
------------------------------------------------

These do not reflect my personal views nor those of my employer (I’m self-employed :p ).
These come from the Presidential level at Sony. :)
post #79 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z
Are you a professional apologist, or do you just play one in the forum?

"Newer technology"? What's so new about it? The major difference between HD DVD and Blu-ray is that Blu-ray made the wrong-headed decision to put the data layer too close to the disc surface, which has only succeeded in dramatically reducing production yields.

HD DVD is a natural evolution of the past 9 years of development of the DVD format and has jumped out of the gate ready to go. HD DVD has learned from DVD. Blu-ray, on the other hand, has decided to start over from scratch for no sound reason, forgetting everything that DVD taught us for the past 9 years, and is now stumbling around like an infant with no idea what it's doing or where to go.

Newer technology... Give me a break. If there had never been such a thing as digital video for the better part of the past decade, and there was no competition so clearly better developed and implemented, perhaps we might forgive Blu-ray for these embarrassing growing pains. But in light of those factors, what Blu-ray has given us so far is shameful, an absolute disgrace.
Are you a professional HD DVD fanboy? :rolleyes:
post #80 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsb
Are you a professional HD DVD fanboy? :rolleyes:
erm he is a Staff Reviewer, DVDTalk :D
post #81 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penton-Man
Sony will release sample quantities of BD 50 for SPHE and other studios shortly They are also working on BD 100 and up to 200 and are testing bit rates much higher than 24-25 (Amir’s last number for MPEG2 transparency as of April---- apparently it changed this week to 30 :eek: I do not know how high it will be in August ;) ).
I changed the number after seeing how awful BD titles like Terminator were at 22-24 Mbit/sec ;).
post #82 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z
The major difference between HD DVD and Blu-ray is that Blu-ray made the wrong-headed decision to put the data layer too close to the disc surface, which has only succeeded in dramatically reducing production yields.
If you want to put 8 layers in a disc, first one has to be quite close to surface.
Sony does not care what the yields are righ now, when they are selling just thousands of discs per month. What they care about is what the yields are when they are selling millions of brd-movies per month. That's when the money is done.

Next year brd can offer 50 GB, hd-dvd 30 GB.
2008 brd will offer 100 GB, hd-dvd 30 GB.
2009 brd will offer 200 GB, hd-dvd 30 GB.
How long you want to stick with already 9 year old technology?
post #83 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by toke
If you want to put 8 layers in a disc, first one has to be quite close to surface.
Sony does not care what the yields are righ now, when they are selling just thousands of discs per month. What they care about is what the yields are when they are selling millions of brd-movies per month. That's when the money is done.

Next year brd can offer 50 GB, hd-dvd 30 GB.
2008 brd will offer 100 GB, hd-dvd 30 GB.
2009 brd will offer 200 GB, hd-dvd 30 GB.
How long you want to stick with already 9 year old technology?
I think you forgot this year.
post #84 of 173
Even when they put only one layer on a disc, the first one is very close to surface. Why do you think they're having very low yields with single layer discs as well?

9 year old tech... Blu-ray came out in late 2003, so that's not "new" either. Besides, what's wrong with old and proven technology? Think about airplanes and cars.
post #85 of 173
and how are the current players supposed to play 8-layer discs?

The BD ROM A/V spec is limited to 2 layers.
post #86 of 173
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen
Even when they put only one layer on a disc, the first one is very close to surface. Why do you think they're having very low yields with single layer discs as well?

9 year old tech... Blu-ray came out in late 2003, so that's not "new" either. Besides, what's wrong with old and proven technology? Think about airplanes and cars.
If the single layer yield is say 80% and you go to dual layer would that make the yield number go to 60%? If so when you got to 8 layers the yield would be zero lol. :)
post #87 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
I changed the number after seeing how awful BD titles like Terminator were at 22-24 Mbit/sec ;).

The D-VHS bitrate sounds more valid.
post #88 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by kschmit2
and how are the current players supposed to play 8-layer discs?

The BD ROM A/V spec is limited to 2 layers.
Listen, you're going to have to learn to ignore a lot of facts if you plan to see things from the Blu Ray camp side.
post #89 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by toke
If you want to put 8 layers in a disc, first one has to be quite close to surface.
Sony does not care what the yields are righ now, when they are selling just thousands of discs per month. What they care about is what the yields are when they are selling millions of brd-movies per month. That's when the money is done.

Next year brd can offer 50 GB, hd-dvd 30 GB.
2008 brd will offer 100 GB, hd-dvd 30 GB.
2009 brd will offer 200 GB, hd-dvd 30 GB.
How long you want to stick with already 9 year old technology?
So anyone buying the Samsung, Sony, or Pioneer now will have to buy new players by 2008? First, I don't think that any of the players released this year will ever support anything over 50GB, so 50GB is the maximum you would see for movies. Second, if you are right and movies are released on 100GB discs, then the people that are ready to buy right now should just wait or else be really pissed when they realize they can't play the movies released in 2008. You have got to be kidding. Here's what I think is going to happen when most of the studios support both formats. The studios will encode movies using VC1 to fit on both 25GB Blu-ray discs and 30GB HD-DVD discs. The HD-DVD discs will have a slight advantage of extra space for extras. When 50GB is used for Blu-ray, then Blu-ray would have the much bigger space available for extras. Sure, every once in a while Blu-ray movies will take advantage of the larger disc for longer movies, but in the long run it is going to make a lot more sense for the studios to only encode the movie once.
post #90 of 173
Like Kai said, BD A/V spec is limited to BD-50. Don't expect to see players supporting larger discs maybe ever. Sony and its partners may well be able to go up to 6 or 8 layers in the future, but those discs will be for computer use. Heck, I'd love a 200GB disc for data backups. Dunno if I can wait for 2-3 years for that, tho. I'm sure something else equally capacious comes along sooner than that from someone else.
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