Vandersteen, wow! - Page 4

Scot, I would think for metal/ rock you would want something more foward and more efficient to play louder- If you want to hear the complete line of vandys , and bring your fav discs to listen to, the place to go in our area is audio lab in fairless hills They are great no pressure guys up there. I am not aware of a dealer closer to you.

They don't go insanely loud like it would be at a metal concert, but they play back Dream Theater, Children of Bodom and In Flames very well.

As far as loud, no they don't crank like some speakers. But as far as the dynamics of the separation of instruments and how loud and or soft they are on the represented soundstage in time, they are phenomenal.

Nuance stated exactly what I heard when auditioning the Vandersteens. I don't think it is a matter of dynamics, I think it is a matter of perceived sound. When the phase and timing of the sound are correct, we don't perceive the sound as loud, but, clean. There was a distinct difference between soft and loud passages as I heard them. If you will attend a live concert with few amplified instruments, you will notice the same effect.
However, if your style of music falls in the amplified, distorted, fusion of jazz and funk (called junk!), you will probably be directed toward the more- in your face- speakers. Dennis

One of the things that's impressed me with the Vandersteens is their dynamic nature. I've been struck by that even when in another room. They can't get as loud as others with steeper crossovers, perhaps, but within their capabilites they're great.

I have to chime in also, I wandered into a local store many years ago and this gorgeous music - jazz with a female vocalist was coming from the back. I asked what kind of speakers they were and the salesman said "Vandy 5As". They were being driven by McIntosh gear. I've listened to many systems since then but I've never heard better sound. As many of the previous posters have mentioned, the dynamics, phase and timing were so realistic I felt as if I was "there". Hopefully I'll get a pair one of these days, sigh...

Maybe this is why I didn't like the 5As when I auditioned them, I had the volume probably around 85-90db and they started to get really muddy.

At around 70-75db they probably would've been fine. Weird thing is that the Model 1 I heard didn't have this problem with high volumes.

Wonder if, as a general rule, "warm" speakers tend to sound better at moderate rather than loud volumes? I had the same experience with some Polk LSi9s, when pushed past a certain point their midrange just started to cave in.

It has nothing to do with "warm speakers" (and they aren't warm speakers, they measure pretty flat, so they are considered neutral, not warm). I have heard warm speakers and they don't sound better at moderate nor higher volumes. Warm is warm, but the 5A's surely are not warm (to my ears anyway). I think the Vandersteen's are rated at 88dB efficiency. I don't remember to be honest, though. Why would you want to listen louder than 85dB anyway?

Regardless of loudspeaker, there's no excuse for listening to music at such high crankin'/rockin' levels. Hearing loss from this kind of self-abuse is cumulative. Be smart, folks...

- Steve O.

well I didn't have an SPL meter on hand, those decibel numbers are just guesses.

At home I usually listen around 75-80db tops.

I had the opportunity to audition the LSi9 in two different occasions. The mids on the polks sounded beautiful even on the moderate to high volumes. Never felt that the midrange caved in at any particular time during my listening session. I have not had the chance to listen to a Vandersteen speaker yet. I'm really curious about the 2Ce sigs.
I need to look for a dealer around my area.

What? I CAN'T HEAR YOU! HAHA, just kidding.

I don't listen much above 85 dB anymore. All those concerts took a toll on me already so I don't need to add to it. But you are right, the Vandersteen's aren't a speaker that you will crank. The are too sophisticated for something like that. haha

Here is a review of the
Quatro. It seems like a good one.
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloud...06vandersteen/

whoa cool. Well, that pretty much describes how I feel about it. It's a sweet sweet speaker! Anyone located in northern IL or WI, head over to Ultra HiFidelis in Milwaukee and check it out; you won't be sorry!

Nuance? Where do you live?

I live in Wauwatosa, WI.

You close to that area?

Quote from MF:
"I got involved in an online tiff with a Vandersteen Audio enthusiast/reviewer who basically dismissed the MAXX2, and Wilson designs in general, with what seemed a doctrinaire diatribe that I found alternately amusing and disturbing. You can bet the folks at Wilson Audio were not amused.

Now that I've had a chance to spend some serious time with the Quatro, I can agree with the Vandersteen protagonist that, overall, the Quatro at $6995/pair does image and soundstage better than the MAXX2 at $44,900/pair, and better than just about any other speaker I've heard at any price."

I have done the musical speakers thing.....for many years.....
I've had 10,000.00 "used" electrostats in my listening room,
the likes of KEF, Von Schweikert, Dunlavy and Spica.......

I bought a used pair of traded in 2CE's about 6 years ago
and then traded up to a pair of 2CE Signatures about 3 years
ago.....mostly because my wife wanted beige cloth to go
with our walls.....

My journey ended there.....I plan to keep these for 20 plus years
and maybe longer.....

The thing people might want to consider in re: to Vandersteen
not being very well known.....

The Vandersteen 2 and it's successors represent the best selling
high end loudspeaker in history. The 2, 2C, 2Ci, 2Ce, and the 2Ce Signature
have sold well over 120,000 pair to date, and is still basically the
same design! That may not sound
so amazing by some folk's standards, but with less than a dealer
per state, and more than they've ever had, that's quite a number
of speakers sold to music lovers......who don't have mush between
their ears.......

I could have saved myself 25K over the years at least if I had known that
I would "end up" with a pair of 1500.00 loudspeakers.....

With the tube amp warmed up and the lights off, you can melt in these......

HOWEVER:

They are not in my opinion the "best" ever made!

That vote goes to the QUAD ESL57. That electrostatic still has the best
midrange EVER from a loudspeaker in it's very small sweet spot....
and that loudspeaker was introduced during the Eisenhour administration.....
it's not a full range loudspeaker, but in that mid band, it is still the reference
for a LOT of audiophiles.......

If I ever get a chance to find a restored pair, I will have "two" favorite loudspeakers in my house......and then my journey to nirvana will be
truly complete...

Yes I do. funny thing, I am in Tosa right now on 124th and Capitol for a job today (fixing a network at a store). Have you heard the Vandersteens at Ultra HiFidelis? If so, what did you think?

I think his setup is good, but not great.

I like his Vandy 4a's

I think he has the bass to loud on the 5a's

Great for movies, not for music.

- I have a few other audiophile friends that love them. But they and I still prefer my setup.

I have a very good Vandersteen setup.

But I have taken the extra time to make sure everything is measured, angled, positioned perfectly within my room.

4a's? They don't have a model 4A that I am aware of. Do you mean the quatros?

The setup over there is definitely not ideal, though I don't think I have ever been to a B&M that has an ideal setup. Which Vandersteen's do you own?

I agree, setup and dialing everything is key. But once its finished there is nothing like it!

A good friend of mine (who I'm beginning to hate due to his constant habit of falling into insane deals because of his his right place/right time tendencies) found a mint pair of Vandy Model 1's at the local Goodwill store for $140/pair.
Was up at his place & we hooked them up. Had never heard Vandersteen's before,
but I got glued between them for like 3 hours, playing disc after disc & really enjoying what I was hearing! Very musical, lovely "pace", you felt the music, & amazing soundstaging in his room.
I told him he better damn not stick these on Ebay someday. They will belong to me!!

wow! That is one crazy deal he got there! You are right, I am beginning to hate him already too!

Opps, sorry, I've been following Vandersteens to long.

There use to be Vandersteen Model 4's

I knew they were the Quatros, but my mind just jumped to say the 4a's

LOL

-SOWK

I have the Vandersteen 2ce Sigs

What do you have?

I might want to schedual a meet someday.

Nuance or anyone that cares to comment.

Back in post 73 after a number of USA posts noting limited dealer numbers, I commented that I had not heard Vandy's and being in Oz, it might be difficult. Well amazingly enough, I have just discovered that I have been driving past a dealer on my way to and from work each day, for years. He has models 1, 2 and 3 (plus other brands such as Quad and Naim) set up so anticipating a good listen ASAP. Have no clue yet as to what he is like as a dealer and we may or may not hit it off like I have with my current one.

Anyway, based on the fact that budget may interfere with a dream solution, what would existing owners say about the relative sound characteristics and perhaps value for money of the 3 models mentioned. It would be for moderately loud but non cranking stereo only duty in a medium sized room. What differences should I listen for between models or should I just concentrate on listening to one only such as the 2ce signature and use that to judge the overall Vandersteen sound? Having said that, I doubt if I could stretch to the 3s as I have sources, amp, cable etc to get as well as a separate existing HT system to support but would like to know the differences anyway. Thoughts?

lpm,

If you get 2CE Signatures or 3A Signatures, you'll never have to worry about upgrading them. They'll also have the benefit of highest resale value in case you switch from Vandersteen. If you choose not to commit to your local dealer, then online A/V for sale forums will definitely have those speakers for sale, nearly all the time.

Build your system to fall within your budget. If you don't, you'll constantly be upgrading and your setup will be in a state of flux. Spend your time and money instead of proper loudspeaker placement and related tweaks, and music/listening.

- Steve O.

My first post here and noticed this thread..Let you know when I lived in the Central Valley (Visalia) I was fortunate enough to be at a store called California Audio. Richard Vandersteen came into the store one day with a mockup of his speakers. It was of course looked very rough without any finish and a lot a glue and nails showing. The store owner was very skeptical of course because of the fact that he only had highend products in the store and was a Linn dealer..so he had a reputation to uphold to his customers. But since he knew Richard he let him bring in the product. Needless to say it sounded amazing..especially as he continuely tweaked the speakers to it's final prototype. I was fortunate enough to own a pair of Vandy 1b's and later 2c's when they first came out and to this day..I haven't hear a better set of speakers for it dynamics and overall warmth. Granted at the time CD's were just starting out and LP's were still popular. But music from my Linn Sondek LP-12 really brought out the music the way it should be recorded and it was night and day vs a CD which sounded cold and compressed. After Cal Audio moved on the only other place that had Vandy's was Musical Images in Fresno. And even though Vandersteen was really small compared to the giants I would always recommend Vandys to be used as a reference speaker when purchasing your home theater system. Not bad from a guy from Hanford.

I currently have the 2CE sigs as well. I got a sweet deal on them. I love them to death but my wife thinks they are ugly as sin. She wants me to sell the Vandersteen center and rears and just use the 2CE sigs for 2-channel. She suggests using the cash from the sale(s) to purchase "prettier" looking home theater speakers. Women...

Sure, we can get together sometime.


Like already mentioned, stay within your budget if you must. The 3A's are quite a bit more than the 2CE sigs. With the 3A's you will get better bass response and a nicer tweeter (I believe it has the model five tweeter). You also get a slightly fatter FR.

I was reading Richard Hardesty's journals and he thinks that the 3A sig sounds like the model 5 when paired with dual Vandersteen subs. I haven't gone back and listened to the 12A's or 3A's since then so I can't back this up, but they do sound sweet. I don't know if it matters to you, but I plan to trade my 2CE sigs in for the 3A's before December (hopefully) and eventually trade those in for the Quattos (if I can afford it). I think you certainly do gain quality when you upgrade, but you will have to determine whether the performance increase warrants the price increase.

Carylee, cool story man. That's sweet that you had such a good experience. Richard Vandersteen is a cool dude (from what it seems anyway).

I agree perceived loudness and actual loudness are 2 different things but Vandys are low 80s efficiency speakers and have slightly below average power handling. That just isn't loud enough for some types of music. The Vandersteen 2c was one of the very first audiophile speakers I listened to when I was searching for speakers My impression was it did everything well but nothing great. More importantly it never did anything badly, you never heard anything that was far enough "off" that made you realize you were listening to speakers and not a band. (I believe I have read some reviews since then that came to almost the same conclusion) In the end I went with VMPS which are even harder to find than Vandys and so far I've been happy with my decision.

The Vandersteens are rated in the mid to high 80's. The use first order cross overs so that's all you will get with 'em. Who listens above 85 dB anyway (unless you want to blow your ears out sooner than later)?

You are right, the Vandersteen's don't do anything badly. That is why they are accurate. You are also right when you say they make you think you are listening to the band rather than speakers. But when you say they don't do anything great, what do you mean? If a speaker does nothing bad but nothing great...? It just doesn't make sense. However, an accurate speaker ISN'T suppose to do anything great, else it would be inaccurate. If it has fantastic treble but a muffled midrange, it is inaccurate and vice versa. Speakers aren't suppose to jump out at you and do one or two things great; they are suppose to disappear in the room just like you hinted that they do. An accurate speaker is usually described by someone who isn't used to accuracy as "They didn't jump out at me," or "They are dull because they don't do anything bad or well."

It's too bad that most people have gotten used to inaccurate and now prefer that instead of accuracy (not that I am implying you are one of those people Grond). No one has a reference to compare to anymore (like live performances by artists that don't use distortion in their music; a Symphony for example).

Hi,

Accuracy == phase/time correct. The first order crossovers, stiff/acoustically damped cabinet design, and nearly baffle-less mounting of tweeter & midrange drivers help make that happen.

I think with Vandersteens, sound and music can be surprising and "jump out at you". Well recorded sound effects and music can give you that "you are there" ambience.

- Steve O.