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HD72 and Panny 900 side-by-side - Page 2  

post #31 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTyson
Actually it's the worst way. You're eyes will adjust to the brightest images whites. Not only that, but if one has a significant black level, contrast or shadow detail advantage those advantage will diminish due to the light washout caused by the other projector. The test would be fine with them in the same room and on at the same time as long as you put the lens cap on one of the units while you test the other one.

The same goes for screen comparisons. It took me awhile, but I learned it doesn't work right to test them at the same time. If you test on both a white and light grey screen the white screen's whites will make the grey screen's whites look poor, yet if you viewed the light grey screen by itself the whites will most likely look great This because your eyes are adjusted only for its whites, therefor your perception of everything is not changed with the introduction of a brighter white.

This can be proven even futher by stacking my silver torus against a 1.3 gain white screen. What happens when viewed at the same time? Well, the white piece looks about 10x darker and the whites look dark grey in comparison. By itself though the 1.3 gain white doesn't look like that though.
I would rather look at them side by side so I can determine which image I like better. It also gives you an idea of how much more or less you are getting for your money.

If you just want to review projectors, I think your theory makes sense. But for determining which projector you want to buy, I'd rather have them side by side.
post #32 of 97
Also, remember this.....once you buy one, you will get used to it and enjoy it.

We aren't in the day when LCD's threw out light-grey blacks and DLP's looked like dithered messes anymore. Ultimately no matter what you go home with, so long as its not throwing a BAD image, chances are you'll learn to love whatever it is you wind up choosing.

I have an H31 here and I love it.....no real need to upgrade to a HD unit just yet.....but when I do, I'll want something that matches the nice color pop and nice rich CR that I feel I get with my H31.
post #33 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch
Also, remember this.....once you buy one, you will get used to it and enjoy it.

We aren't in the day when LCD's threw out light-grey blacks and DLP's looked like dithered messes anymore. Ultimately no matter what you go home with, so long as its not throwing a BAD image, chances are you'll learn to love whatever it is you wind up choosing.

I have an H31 here and I love it.....no real need to upgrade to a HD unit just yet.....but when I do, I'll want something that matches the nice color pop and nice rich CR that I feel I get with my H31.
Here, here!

...or is it "Hear, Hear...?"
post #34 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanJNielson
I would rather look at them side by side so I can determine which image I like better. It also gives you an idea of how much more or less you are getting for your money.

If you just want to review projectors, I think your theory makes sense. But for determining which projector you want to buy, I'd rather have them side by side.


I don't think you completely understood what I meant. If you put them side by side in the same room you may end up preferring the inferior projector, because it could negate the advantages of the other projector when viewed side by side. That's my point.

Hell, if I viewed my CRT projector and 4805 at the same time it's possible that I might prefer the image of the 4805, but when viewed seperately the CRT blows it out of the water.
post #35 of 97
"I would rather look at them side by side so I can determine which image I like better. ..But for determining which projector you want to buy, I'd rather have them side by side. "

I agree with MTyson, you're just making yourself prey to our perception's sensitivity to differences.

And those differences will render less significant those attributes that aren't different but may in fact be more important to long term viewing enjoyment.
post #36 of 97
God I hope they can eliminate VB with the next lcd's. The VB on my AE900 drives me nuts!
post #37 of 97
I thought they eliminated VB on the 700 series and up......????

The AE900 is still like the deal of the century if you want HD.....but if you don't care as much about that, and want to focus rather on DVD's, I'd still consider a DLP 480p machine....assuming you're doing this on the cheap.

I had a friend ask my AV advice recently, and I did some research....and steered him towards the AE900 and a DaLite HCCV screen, and he couldn't be happier. He was going to look at $3000+ Plasmas and LCD's and I said "Well...for like...half that money, you could have a movie screen you know".

I'm still amazed at what my H31 can do....I mean, really amazed. I look at my 65" Calibrated Mits bigscreen (that is now solely used for cable and Xbox360) and shake my head at how far image quality has come in just 3-4 years.

Today, the quality you can get for $1000 is just phenominal.....
post #38 of 97
My AE900 has no VB Toe.Must be hit or miss,THANJS BUDDA
post #39 of 97
Mine doesn't either.

Toe, I'd take it back if you can, or try the adjustment for it.
post #40 of 97
The hd72 just got a $300 rebate putting it VERY close $=wise to the Panny!
post #41 of 97
Thread Starter 
HD72 now has a rebate?? Wow- very interesting! The Panny rebate has been extended- once again- to Sep 30th.

It may be wise to wait a few months. I think prices will drop even lower.
post #42 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack
The hd72 just got a $300 rebate putting it VERY close $=wise to the Panny!
Can I qualify for the rebate if I purchased a month ago?

Bob
post #43 of 97
I am not sure what I am going to do. The 300 rebate on the HD72 makes it very tempting, but with my ceilings it is probably not the best projector for my room.

Somebody pointed me towards the Mitsubishi HC3000U, but I think that has almost identical features as the the HD72. If that is the case, I am not sure how that would work and the HD72 wouldn't.

I really wish I could demo the Panasonic because I think I might have to go with that unit. I enjoy the picture I get with my H31, but I want something that I can hook my Toshiba HD-DVD player up to.
post #44 of 97
Bob, did U get the free lamp? If so, then I don't think you can quailfy for the rebate.

:(
post #45 of 97
I think that the Mits is regarded to be a bit better.
It's under $2K at an authorized dealer now!
post #46 of 97
Dave,

The price from the authorized dealer is definitely the lowest around. I just have to make sure it will work in my basement.
post #47 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe
God I hope they can eliminate VB with the next lcd's. The VB on my AE900 drives me nuts!
pardon my ignorance: I came to this thread researching projectors for a friend of mine.

What is VB?

He's interested in both of these, so I'm trying to help him make a decision.

Thanks,
A
post #48 of 97
VB is Vertical Banding, a common complaint among those who own LCD projectors.

LCD Projectors have long had two common problems:
Vertical Banding and a low contrast ratio, or an ability to produce the color BLACK without it being dark (or lighter) Grey.

DLP Projectors have long had two common problems:
The Rainbow Effect, and color dithering of colors.

By and large, most of those problems for both technologies have been squashed with current generation products....at least to the point that the untrained eye (ie: joe consumer) would never notice them unless it was pointed out to him what to look for.

Vertical Banding in LCD projectors is most noticible when a solid (or nearly solid) color is being displayed, such as the blue of the ocean in the Pixar movie FINDING NEMO...where instead of seeing one solid wall of blue you see vertical stripes in the background...its hard to describe without seeing it in person, try doing a search of the forums for vertical banding and screenshots to see whats what.

I would say that most people would suggest that the Sanyo Z4 and the Panasonic AE900 have eliminated Vertical Banding, or at least drastically reduced it. T here are also menu tweaks one can do to minimize its presence if indeed you do see it.
post #49 of 97
VB becomes very bad when watching HD football. Panning across the green grass/turf really brings it out for me. It was my single biggest pet peeve with my AE300.

I concur with others that warn against side by side comparisons. I had a H78 in a room with white ceilings and beige walls. I have now painted the ceiling black and the walls dark burgundy. It's amazing how much difference this made in instantaneous contrast. Ambient light of any kind can drastically affect contrast negating the benefit the HD72 would have.
post #50 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobrigavitch
I concur with others that warn against side by side comparisons. I had a H78 in a room with white ceilings and beige walls. I have now painted the ceiling black and the walls dark burgundy. It's amazing how much difference this made in instantaneous contrast. Ambient light of any kind can drastically affect contrast negating the benefit the HD72 would have.
So, to be fair, you'd have to compare whole room setups vs. whole room setups? I always wondered if an LCD like the Panny 900 could better compete in the contrast department if they were mated to high contrast screens and better light control. If that were done, would the color saturation advantage be reduced as well?
post #51 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomieMCT
So, to be fair, you'd have to compare whole room setups vs. whole room setups? I always wondered if an LCD like the Panny 900 could better compete in the contrast department if they were mated to high contrast screens and better light control. If that were done, would the color saturation advantage be reduced as well?
Screens do not change the contrast in the dark. It will either make both the blacks and whites darker or both brighter. So, if you want better blacks you get bit of a dimmer picture. It can enhance percieved contrast though. However, you could do the same with the HD72 and it has brightness to spare.
post #52 of 97
Thread Starter 
Well- I bought the AE900.

Brought it home and fired it up.

It exceeded my expectations. MUCH better at home than it was at the dealer. I am very happy with the upgrade from the H30 and highly recommend this as an entry level projector!
post #53 of 97
I just pulled the trigger on an upgrade from SP4805 to the AE900. I choose the upgrade over the 72 for 1 reason, setup flexibility. To me setup flexibility and fan noise, or lack there of, are 2 other reasons the 900 is such a good deal.

I am a huge dlp fan so I hope I will not be dissapointed! I am buying the 900 site unseen.
post #54 of 97
Congrats Ryan.... I've been following this thread since you started it a few weeks ago since we were in on some of the same H30 discussions in the past. I too have considered upgrading and have read in depth about the AE900 and the HD72 and have now added the HD7100 into the mix. My family room has installation challenges that have eliminated the HD72 and made even the ultra flexible AE900 a stretch. I don't know if I just really lucked out with the H30 and it's offset or what. It appears to me that the HD7100 is pretty suitable for my environment and I'll wait for that to decrease in price some more. I'm really in no rush though as the H30 continues to perform very well.

I look forward to your continued thoughts on this projector as I always felt you gave a good "laymans" perspective that I could identify with. Best of luck with your new unit. Enjoy that thing!!

Cheers!
post #55 of 97
Thread Starter 
Thanks, gotta!

The H30 is a sweet projector. I cannot complain about it one bit. When I sell it next week, the buyer will be VERY happy!

I am looking forward to building our dedicated HT next month and pairing the ae900 with a real screen. Currently projecting on ProjectorCentral's DIY option. It looks very good, but a real screen would be better. Leaning toward Carada's regular white screen at 104".

The ae900 I bought was the demo I saw a few weeks ago. Got a SWEET deal with full warranty. 500 hrs on the bulb- and it is still really bright. I love the added resolution of the ae900. The higher contrast is apparent as well as the increased color saturation. I do not have professional calibration equipment, but out of the box I could see the grayscale is DARN close to 6500k. I tweaked it a little by eye to eliminate some of the blue in the low IRE's and it looks fantastic to me. The wife can see the improvement, but not to the same extent. But wait until she sees Hi-Def in full resolution...!

Oh- and X-men Legends II at 720p on Xbox is awesome!
post #56 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchayer
I just pulled the trigger on an upgrade from SP4805 to the AE900. I choose the upgrade over the 72 for 1 reason, setup flexibility. To me setup flexibility and fan noise, or lack there of, are 2 other reasons the 900 is such a good deal.

I am a huge dlp fan so I hope I will not be dissapointed! I am buying the 900 site unseen.
post a comparison between the two when you get a chance. I've got a 4805 and D1, but am interested in something 720, as the 4805 dosn't look really good unless I'm 2.5 times screen width.
post #57 of 97
I have the panny 900 for when my room is completed, only problem i'm having now is the screen size. I like large screens wanted to go with a 120" but i've heard the panny 900 is dim at that size screen. The HD72 is 200 lumens brighter and that might make my 120" screen a reality. I've read lots of reviews about the panny 900 and all were good, the one thing that they all lacked was screen size for people that want 120" screens or bigger. Oh well, I might keep the panny and buy the HD72 also. I have 9' ceilings in my room Im building so mounting should not be a problem. Wish the panny was brighter!!
post #58 of 97
What is is about the Elite screens that you didn't like? I'm considering the Elite screens because you can get a tensioned 100 inch screen for around $700. This is about half what a Da-lite costs and about 1/3 or less of what a Stewart costs. Plus, it seems a bit strange to me to spend about the cost of the projector or even twice the cost of the projector to buy the screen.
post #59 of 97
I got a free Elite Roll-Up screen when I got my H31 a year ago. I replaced it after about a week. Assuming these are the same materials and the same company, the screen I got was..essentially...a 16:9 version of the same material used on the screens your School used to show slideshows.

A silvery relfective thing. Moving to a Graywolf 106' pull down for less than $200 bucks solved my problems. The material is thick enough that waves weren't a problem.
post #60 of 97
Thanks for that comparison. I believe that they've changed the material since then, but it's interesting to see any type of comparison with this screen. There's too much info both good and bad about screens. For instance, the Graywolf is blamed by some for sparklies and the like, especially when the projector is mounted above the screen (as mine will be). It's too darn confusing, especially with zero percent chance of seeing any of these in action without buying them.
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