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Algolith Dragonfly owners thread - Page 2  

post #31 of 247
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjchan
Also, my unit was packed upside down (relative to the box). The DF arrived with the heatsink fan detached. I had to open up and re-attach it.
Did you take any photos? Also, you do know that this may invalidate the warranty right?
post #32 of 247
The PCB looks fairly much like the TheaterSync but smaller. I reproted the issue to Algolith so I'm not too worried about voiding the warranty. I'm saving them a round-trip shipping and handling.
post #33 of 247
wjchan,

I had the same issue with the demo unit and reported it to Algolith. The main worry was not the actual detachment of the fan, but the fact that it could rattle around during transport and cause some damage.
post #34 of 247
Maybe that's why they ship it upside down. If the fan comes loose, it'll only scratch the inside cover and not the circuit board. Brilliant!
post #35 of 247
Thread Starter 
Here is a list of the latest DF glitches:

- Elevated black level. I can verify the elevated black level issue with HDMI. I can't find a way to fix it either. Even turning brightness all the way down doesn't correct the problem...weird.

- Component to HDMI transcoding. I can verify Mauricef's finding that component to HDMI transcoding works on the DF. This is great news as it was a feature that wasn't expected on the product launch.

- Component input problems Component input (and HDMI out) seems to have it's own set of problems. For example at times the gamma settings will be inexplicably greyed out while at other times they work fine. Setting a gama of 1 seems to be the only setting that is really workable with my HD2K. Unfortunately, when it works the picture is softer and not as detailed with component. I also get a weird glitch sometimes where the luminance is all messed up (bright objects such as white text have a shimmer and halo effect). I also see the bottom left corner ficker problem even with component, but I don't see the combing problem.

- HD combing problem workaround!. I found a workaround to the combing problem in HD (doesn't work for 480i though). With the picture being displayed go into the picture->advanced->cnr settings and set CNR to something high like 15 and then enable CNR. CNR is disabled on HD but doing what I describe resets or reinitalizes the picture settings and the combing problem goes away and the image snaps into perfection. Take note that the combing problem is fairly subtle on HD content and with video it acts to soften the image a little. By using the HDNET resolution test pattern though the problem is obvious. Horizontal lines for example look like they have a shadow and any text "-" becomes a "=". Also note that you can't freeze the source while doing this because the source will do field combining while the image is frozen and the only combing you'll see is from the source itself rather than the DF. The HDNET resolution test pattern is ideal because it stays up for several minutes allowing you to futze with the settings to see the difference.

- 480i combing . The combing with 480i is much worse than with 1080i. Text such as channel guide overlays are almost unreadable. The trick described above doesn't do anything for 480i sources and I haven't found a way to get 480i to be even watcheable yet. My SA8300HD supports multiple output formats and I prefer using 480i for SD content and 1080i for HD. I could force it to output everything as 1080i but then it mitigates some of the advantage of using the HQV in the first place.

- Sync issues. When the resolution changes for a fixed source device it's iffy if the DF will lock onto the new source. Sometimes all I get is a blue screen even after waiting 20 seconds or more.

- HDMI issues . Yup, HDMi is a mess on this unit. Switching between HDMI inputs on the DF wreaks havoc with the source players. On my SA8300HD breaking the connection to switch to another HDMI source will cause the 8300HD to go back to channel 0 or often times it will just reboot. For the HD-A1 if I break the HDMI connection the player will stop (talk about a pain when A/B testing). I haven't seen HDMI issues this bad with other VP's.
post #36 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Petersen
Here is a list of the latest DF glitches:

- Elevated black level. I can verify the elevated black level issue with HDMI. I can't find a way to fix it either. Even turning brightness all the way down doesn't correct the problem...weird.
Have you tried the Black Level setting? I have to set my S-video to 7.5IRE.
post #37 of 247
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjchan
The fan is rather small and snaps nicely onto the heatsink. The heatsink is firmly attached to the Realta chip.
Is the heatsink bolted or glued on? I have a spare Zalman reserator liquid cooling unit for PC's that I'm tempted to use on the DF to make it fanless and perfectly quiet :)
post #38 of 247
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjchan
Have you tried the Black Level setting? I have to set my S-video to 7.5IRE.
Yup, I found that 7.5 IRE works best for all of my sources but the elevated black level is still there.
post #39 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Petersen
Is the heatsink bolted or glued on? I have a spare Zalman reserator liquid cooling unit for PC's that I'm tempted to use on the DF to make it fanless and perfectly quiet :)
Neither. The fan is designed to snap on. Go ahead and open up the unit. Use a sharp knife to slowly peel off the stickers. You won't break them.
post #40 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Petersen
Yup, I found that 7.5 IRE works best for all of my sources but the elevated black level is still there.
Do you know if your projector is video level (16-235) or PC level (0-255)? Try the Adaptive BCE setting also. On the TheaterSync, the BCE plays with the video/PC level.
post #41 of 247
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjchan
Do you know if your projector is video level (16-235) or PC level (0-255)? Try the Adaptive BCE setting also. On the TheaterSync, the BCE plays with the video/PC level.
It's video levels. I'll try the BCE settings, thanks for the tip.
post #42 of 247
There seems to be some weird power on issue. Sometimes I have all of the options enabled sometimes I do not. I also have to set the gamma to 1 to get any decent results. I think some variable is floating because sometimes the picture is razor sharp other times it just goes soft on the same material. Also my HDMI issues seem to be startup related as well. Today HDMI decided to cooperate. I could even change gamma and other settings. Algolith has some serious software issues to address.

Also composite and S-Video don't work. It wobbles and wiggles all over the place like an old VHS tape.

I'm starting to think they released this just to appease the pre-buy customers.
post #43 of 247
Quote:
- 480i combing . The combing with 480i is much worse than with 1080i. Text such as channel guide overlays are almost unreadable. The trick described above doesn't do anything for 480i sources and I haven't found a way to get 480i to be even watcheable yet. My SA8300HD supports multiple output formats and I prefer using 480i for SD content and 1080i for HD. I could force it to output everything as 1080i but then it mitigates some of the advantage of using the HQV in the first place.
I solve that issue by selecting in INPUT/OUTPUT the FIELD CONTROL to ODD instead of EVEN and voila.
With EVEN there is severe combing with the Oppo but now it seems nice. I still have to do benchmarking of the HQV (which is why it's interesting to feed it a 480i)
I repeat my question, what is the version of your DF?

I will try in 1080i to see also.

Emmanuel
post #44 of 247
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauricef
There seems to be some weird power on issue.
Yes exactly. I think there are some HQV settings that aren't getting initialized properly when the unit syncs to a source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mauricef
I think some variable is floating because sometimes the picture is razor sharp other times it just goes soft on the same material.
This is the combing problem that I mentioned. If you look at rounded edges you'll see "jaggies" all over the place and any decent test pattern or fine text will show the problem clearly. If you do the fix described earlier in this thread (enabling CNR) you'll see the picture pause briefly while it gets reinitialized and the image will snap into razor sharpness. It has to be done each time that the unit syncs to a source though because it's an initialization problem and the setting won't "stick". So far though this workaround has been 100% effective for me.

If you have a copy of Serenity on HD-DVD you can see it very clearly when the HD-DVD menus are up. The text on the menu (Pause, scene, extra, etc.) will look jaggie and after the CNR adjustment the menus will look great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mauricef
Also composite and S-Video don't work. It wobbles and wiggles all over the place like an old VHS tape.
I've seen this with the component input at times too. The image jumps vertically up and down a row or so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mauricef
I'm starting to think they released this just to appease the pre-buy customers.
I saw this with the analog Mosquito too. The initial unit that was shipped to me had seriouis problems and eventually I RMA returned it and told them not to worry about sending me a unit until the HDMI Mosquito was ready. They eventually sorted out the problems though and the new HDMI Mosquito is rock solid. I'm cautiously hopeful that the DF will be the same way (buggy at first but then sorted out and solid after a few SW updates). The fact that they are releasing SW soon is a hopeful sign.

Incidentally I've found ways to get the unit fairly functional so that I can demo it with friends. The failure to sync can be worked around by changing the input to another device (I pick S-Video) and then come back to HDMI. The picture resyncs and can be displayed. After that I do the CNR fix to workaround the combing problem and then it's rock solid and looks great so I can watch material for extended periods. The HDMI problems can also be worked around by starting up the HDMI device while the DF is up. I still haven't found a way to workaround the 480i issue which is useless as is. Bottom line for me right now is that the DF can be used to achieve an amazing HD picture but the SD has problems and overall, the unit isn't very robust as far as changing resolutions and sources. But I kind of expected this from a preliminary release.
post #45 of 247
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EL
I solve that issue by selecting in INPUT/OUTPUT the FIELD CONTROL to ODD instead of EVEN and voila.
With EVEN there is severe combing with the Oppo but now it seems nice. I still have to do benchmarking of the HQV (which is why it's interesting to feed it a 480i)
I repeat my question, what is the version of your DF?

I will try in 1080i to see also.

Emmanuel
Hi Emmanuel,

The version is 1.07.

Unfortunately I can't find a field control setting on the DF. 480i via HDMI on my SA8300HD always comes up with severe combing and I haven't found a way yet to get around it. I'll try 480i on the Pioneer DV-59Avi and see if it does the same thing.
post #46 of 247
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjchan
Do you know if your projector is video level (16-235) or PC level (0-255)? Try the Adaptive BCE setting also. On the TheaterSync, the BCE plays with the video/PC level.
wjchan,

I futzed with the BCE settings and they didn't seem to do anything on the DF. It's probably disabled on this release of the firmware. Unfortunately the black level is still elevated and I haven't found a workaround :(
post #47 of 247
Hi guys, if any of you have a DF and a 720p projector please to fiddle around with your Tosh HD-DVD's and report how well the DF scales the HD-DVD's native 1080p (outputed at 1080i of course on the current Toshiba) down to 720p on a front PJ.

I'm hot for the Kodak/Infocus 333 that Alan has a powerbuy on because its light output will make it much easier to do a large screen in my room with white ceiling, light walls, and so-so light control. But frankly, I haven't been paying attention to AV stuff for a few months and just last night found out that HD-DVD's are being released at 1080p and I can get them for no extra charge from my NetFlix account.

For some reason I cannot now explain, I expected 720p to be the primary option for a couple of years and thought a 720p PJ would be just dandy. Now that 1080p content is here and readily available my head is spinning and I'm back to ground zero.

The Ruby sounds like an easy answer but I'm concerned it won't put out enough lumens (my wife likes pop/punch) and she'll never let my buy a $30,000 pj so a three chip 1080p dlp ain't happening for me in the near future.

Please let me know your thoughts once someone scales 1080i to 720p on the DF.

Thanks!
post #48 of 247
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by faterikcartman
For some reason I cannot now explain, I expected 720p to be the primary option for a couple of years and thought a 720p PJ would be just dandy. Now that 1080p content is here and readily available my head is spinning and I'm back to ground zero.
Yup 1080p from the source all the way through to the native display device is here to stay but for now anyway it is an expensive but rewarding setup.

Unfortunately I can't test 720p for you because I don't have a native 720p device. Hopefully someone else can try it out and report on it. You're on the right track in getting the HD-DVD to output 1080i and using something else to downscale to 720p because I've heard that the Toshiba looks marginal at 720p output and 1080i is fantastic. Even on upscaled SD DVD's the Toshiba is amazing and I actually prefer over my heavily tweaked HTPC. I'm hopeful that with a little tweaking the DF with a 480i input will be even better than the Toshiba.
post #49 of 247
Mark,
1.07 is the latest official version.

I have a different one and it solves the issue about 480i with Oppo 970H. It also has other suprise ;)
I have also a 59AVi but this player has trouble to sync to a DVI display through a middle tier.

I will play with a HDMI proj soon, should be able to sync.

I did test the HD-A1 with the DF on a 720p projector. I was very impressed with the result The scaling seemed to be perfect from 1080i to 720p (well the best it could be, I did not see yet a 1080p setup). I saw no artefact on Riddick.
post #50 of 247
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EL
Mark,
1.07 is the latest official version.

I have a different one and it solves the issue about 480i with Oppo 970H. It also has other suprise ;)
Hi Emmanuel,

Are you saying you have a DF with a later version? If so, please give us some of the scoop! 480i is working okay with this version? And what's the surprise? Don't leave us in suspense :)
post #51 of 247
BTW, news channels are good test of the DF. On CNN, sometimes the text in the scrolling news ticker combs depending on the main screen content.
post #52 of 247
Just got back in town and found this email from Algolith

Quote:
Rattling is really not part of the product we provide! It may have
been dropped when outside its box and suffered damage. My concern is
that if it is a metal part that has come free it may cause a short
circuit when powered on.

Your first choice is to open the unit and see what has come loose.
The second is to send it to Digi-Box, our new distributor in the UK
and they can have a look.

Which do you prefer?

Regards,
Robert

Robert Young
Vice President - Sales & Marketing
I've taken all the screws out of the unit but then noticed a seal on the bottom corner that says "warranty voided if seal is broken". I'm certainly not going to fire the unit up....and I'm not going to break that seal anytime soon. But I sure would like to get this resolved without too much hassle. I have another email into Algolith. Will report back what they come up with. BTW, from the sound of things, it could be just the fan rattling around but it sounds more like a circuit board came loose or something during transit. Whatever it is, it's sliding around in there pretty freely.
post #53 of 247
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by javry
I've taken all the screws out of the unit but then noticed a seal on the bottom corner that says "warranty voided if seal is broken". I'm certainly not going to fire the unit up....and I'm not going to break that seal anytime soon. But I sure would like to get this resolved without too much hassle. I have another email into Algolith. Will report back what they come up with. BTW, from the sound of things, it could be just the fan rattling around but it sounds more like a circuit board came loose or something during transit. Whatever it is, it's sliding around in there pretty freely.
It sounds like they are giving you permission to crack the seals and open the box without voiding the warranty. This is very trusting of them. If you take the plunge can you take photos? :)
post #54 of 247
I think the first thing we need fixed the the gamma settings. With the combing workaround I can get a sharp picture but with only the 1.0 gamma working scenes with a low average picture level feel flat. I will shoot Aloglith an email in the morning.
post #55 of 247
based on Mark, Ofer, and wjchan's comments, and against my better judgement.....which doesn't amount to a hill of beans sometimes.........I went ahead and broke the seals and took a look at what's inside the unit and what was moving around. It turns out that as best as I can tell, it was indeed the fan and nothing more. Boy, you guys pinned that nail right on the head. I snapped it back to where I thought it naturally belonged [right above the heat sink?], plugged the unit into some power, and tested it for a very - very short period. It turned on okay......and the fan rotated............ but I haven't tried it in a full HT setting yet. From initial observations, the fan noise level seemed to be a little loud and intrusive....but that was with the unit uncovered and wide opened. Perhaps it's different in a true HT environment. Other than that, it appears that all is well [sigh!]. The circuit board was NOT sliding around inside the cage,....but instead, appeared to be well en-tact [that's good!].......and assuming there was no other internal damage from the fan sliding around during transport, I should be able to test the unit with my Mosquito and 300e in a couple of days. I welcome any thoughts at this point.

Have any of you guys recieved your delivery with the unit upside down in the box?
Javry
post #56 of 247
I recieved 2 more emails from Algolith saying first that it was okay to break the seals....and second, that if I wanted to replace the unit, they would comply. I think I'll hold off until I have a chance to see if the unit is okay. Will report back my findings. Boy, they are really cranking up the customer service thing these days....nice to see:>)
post #57 of 247
I do indeed have a newer version that is not yet released. I'm busy but I should play with it this week. I will double check issues I had but also yours.
Like I said the 480i is not anymore an issue.
As for what's new ... I;m not sure I can tell but I'll take a chance ;) there are some test patterns added.

Emmanuel
post #58 of 247
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EL
I do indeed have a newer version that is not yet released. I'm busy but I should play with it this week. I will double check issues I had but also yours.
Like I said the 480i is not anymore an issue.
As for what's new ... I;m not sure I can tell but I'll take a chance ;) there are some test patterns added.

Emmanuel
This is great news! Once 480i is stable I'm keenly interested in seeing how the Pioneer DV-59Avi works with the DF. I'm hopeful that this will be an even better combo for SD DVD upconversion than using the Toshiba HD-A1 (which is amazingly good).

I also got an e-mail from Algolith clarifying what was mentioned earlier in the thread about noise reduction. They were talking about the video noise option (not the fan noise that I assumed). So even though the price has gone up we AVS powerbuy users who have stuck it out are getting the uber unit that includes what is now an additional $500 charge (thanks Algolith!).
post #59 of 247
Thread Starter 
While hooking up all of my sources to the DF (HD-DVD, Samsung BD, cable, etc.). It occured to me that adding the ability to accept audio via HDMI and output it via SPDIF (for those audio formats that are SPDIF compatible) would really be a useful feature with the Mosquito + Dragonfly combo. As it stands now all of my sources need to go into the DF because of the large HQV audio delay. One of the great features of the Mosquito is that it can be used as a swticher to multiplex sources. Unfortunately the Mosquito only switches audio if it's over HDMI and the DF doesn't have enough audio inputs to be used effectively as a switcher. If this one change was added however I could use the Mosquito and DF combo to easily switch 5 HDMI sources without the hassles of using another outboard audio switcher. Does anyone know how difficult it would be for Algolith to add this HDMI->SPDIF audio transconding feature on the DF?
post #60 of 247
The SD CNR doesn't seem as strong as the implementation on the TheaterSync. The TS CNR covers up a lot of noise and detail even at the low setting.
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