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PLASMA vs LCD What wins this battle? - Page 2  

post #31 of 63
LCD Sucks

Go Plasma :)
post #32 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericp
they run hot, but not as hot as plasmas
Apparently not always the case. My 26" HP LCD TV expels a lot more heat than my 42" Panny Plasma.

The PQ on my Plasma is better than my LCD TV on all sources and signals. The only time the LCD looks better is the rare instances when the sun is shining/beaming into my front window, but otherwise the Plasma kicks my little LCD's butt, especially at night.

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/6...sma19pi.th.jpg
post #33 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvbug
LCD Sucks

Go Plasma :)
Very insightful. Thank you very much for your opinion that is backed by nothing less than the highest level of tests and observations. This level of commentary is the exact reason that people browse these forums, and provides them with the accurate information they need for their purchasing decisions.
post #34 of 63
When buying a new TV my main use for it was going to be watching DVD movies. Going from store to store checking everything out, I notice on average the plasma came out on top as far as giving the best movie picture. Plasma had more vivid and brighter colors and way less motion artifacts/blur. All of the LCDs I seen had like a macroblocking effect in high motion where the Plasmas hooked to the same signal didn't. Also, I notice the Plasmas had a much wider viewing angle. For straight up movie watching it was a no brainer that the Plasma was better for me.

As far as heat goes, I normally don't have my Plasma turned on for longer then watching one DVD and it doesn't even get warm. I know from the ones at the store that stay on all day that they can double as a space heater when left on for long durations.

Gaming, well, after coming off a 21" Sony Trinitron Aperture Grille CRT @ 100Hz on my PC, all the bigscreens have way too slow response time for me to game on, lol, especially fast paced ones like Unreal Tournament 2004. I tried it, but it was way too laggy to play this game (felt like having a 200ms ping online but playing offline). Other slower paced games are "ok" I suppose. But hey, I'm used to playing fast paced games on high performance PC hardware so Xbox/Playstation gaming is probably just fine. Funny though that on the other hand, after playing/viewing on the Plasma with it's laggy response time (compared to what I'm used to) I can notice even at 100Hz the flickery display on my monitor when I never used to notice it before, lol. After a few minutes I guess my eyes get used to the monitor the flickerness seems to disapear again.

Well there ya have it, IMO for straight up movie watching, Plasma is the way to go.

(Note: I use my HD Plasma for light PC use as well. Windows desktop is crystal clear when running at the displays native resolution - looks great for viewing photos and multimedia and text is even as clear and easy to read as on my PC monitor.)
post #35 of 63
All you have to do to decide which one you'd rather buy is to play both of them side by side in a pitch black room.

Case closed!
post #36 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood
All you have to do to decide which one you'd rather buy is to play both of them side by side in a pitch black room.
Unless you don't normally watch TV or movies in a pitch black room (my wife & I do not), in which case such a comparison might be utterly worthless to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood
Case closed!
There is almost nothing that shows one is insecure in their position as blatantly as their asserting "case closed!,"'nuff said!," and the like. It's nearly always an attempt to cut the debate short, lest the shortcomings of their position, or their inability to argue it, be exposed.

Here, let us try this, by way of comparison: "All you have to do to decide which one you'd rather buy is to play both of them side by side in a brightly sunlit room. Case closed!" Are you convinced? Are you ready to commit that plasma to a landfill and go buy the obviously superior LCD? No? Why not? Did not my argument, and my assertion it obviously closed the case convince you? :rolleyes:
post #37 of 63
No. LCD blacks are even gray in broad daylight.
post #38 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEMIJim
There is almost nothing that shows one is insecure in their position as blatantly as their asserting "case closed!,"'nuff said!," and the like. It's nearly always an attempt to cut the debate short, lest the shortcomings of their position, or their inability to argue it, be exposed. :rolleyes:

Holy Sh!t! Logical reasoning on AVS forum?
post #39 of 63
I was going to go with an LCD over a plasma because of burn in, but after doing some research, I don't really think it will be a problem. I'm not sure why anyone would go with an lcd..considering they are so much more money, and simply don't have the PQ that plasmas have.

Am I wrong here?
post #40 of 63
Truth is, both LCD and Plasma are capable of great PQ. It depends on environment and personal preference. No right or wrong answer here.:)
post #41 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Truth is, both LCD and Plasma are capable of great PQ. It depends on environment and personal preference. No right or wrong answer here.:)
Yes, I agree. I've been blown away by both at times. The Samsung 57" LCD with its demo disc as well as the 46" Sony Bravia LCD set and its demo were killer. Minimal reflections but not the deep blacks, especially as you moved off axis.

I have a Panasonic 50PX600U and it rocks. Even in daytime. When I watch the program my eyes ignore reflections in dark areas much the same as they did in the old days watching a big screen Sony XBR CRT. At night though, I appreciate the ultimate black levels and detail in dark areas the current LCD's can't touch yet. Things will improve overall once I install blinds on the windows. I have 75W halogen can uplights behind the TV to the left and right and they give zero reflection but light up the room adequately for most activities.

Because of the cost factor vs. size vs. PQ, its big screen Plasma for the living room and smaller screen LCD for the bed room.
post #42 of 63


There is no battle; LCD already won...
post #43 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isochroma


There is no battle; LCD already won...
number of units shipped does not = best display device. You could swap PDP on that graph with Lamborghini and LCD with Honda.

Now can we get over this my preferred display is bigger... I mean better than yours and just discuss this factually. Both displays haver their merits depends on what you want to do with them AND what you personally care about in a display. So list facts about them.
post #44 of 63
the one your eyes tell you is the best picture
i use both for different things but with leaps
in technology not sure what tech will win.
post #45 of 63
I have a Philips 42" plasma...and it has a brilliant picture quality. I Love the quality of the television and the manufacturer. Their Customer Care departmet is excellent too. Glad I went with it. Loads of features and connections!
post #46 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isochroma


There is no battle; LCD already won...

The source is? The sample size is? The percentage breakdown into quantities is?

As far as I can tell, that graph tells me absolutely nothing useful. Two thirds of the graph is hypotheses. Don't call the war won just because a battle is won.

Edit: I'm not a zealot for either technology, by the way. I would just prefer more concrete facts than a graph with percentages of unknown sample sizes dating to the year 2010 if someone is going to make the claim that one technology "wins."
post #47 of 63
Good luck - I doubt there has EVER been a thread on ANY 'net forum on the topic of "this vs that" that was capable of staying factual and not degrading into zealots from both sides yelling:

Coke! Pepsi!
Chevy! Ford!
Bloods! Crips!

:D
post #48 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isochroma


There is no battle; LCD already won...
Yo!!! What about the size of the LCD vs. whatever? Plenty of LCD small screens 5" to 20" are selling like hotcakes. So what????
post #49 of 63
When chats become spats,
flashing sharp claws of cats
and swinging baseball bats...
it's time for a taste of the sublime,
a new edition of poetry time!
--------------------------------------

The writing's on the wall
plasma's gonna take the fall
and LCD will rule them all!

The One Ring will deliver its sting
with the sound of a cash register's ring
announcing the next big thing!

In this battle it's a sin to prattle,
but surely better than preaching to cattle,
so forgive me if I tattle!

Who can tell what's going to sell,
in the forest which tree fell?
iSuppli is flying high
its analysts are eating cherry pie...
(maybe the filling squirted in my eye?)

For sure its price reduced,
war they have deduced,
the only winner is the thinner!

The newest slash to chase a crash,
will surely fund the biggest splash,
but will it deplete your cash stash?

Surely mine is just so fine,
on it a fortunate Toshiba will soon dine,
and not a whimper nor a whine
shall you hear from the viewer of its ghostly shine.

Time to bed the moribund SED,
to which some are excessively wed...
There's little to stave its inevitable grave
at least future buyers will save,
and in plasma's reflection I can shave!
post #50 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isochroma


There is no battle; LCD already won...

I'm guessing these numbers could also be skewed by monitor sales. Does this chart consider an LCD monitor sold by someone like Dell or Gateway an LCD sale? If so then that would really knock these numbers out of whack.
post #51 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isochroma
When chats become spats,
flashing sharp claws of cats
and swinging baseball bats...
it's time for a taste of the sublime,
a new edition of poetry time!
--------------------------------------

The writing's on the wall
plasma's gonna take the fall
and LCD will rule them all!


The One Ring will deliver its sting
with the sound of a cash register's ring
announcing the next big thing!

In this battle it's a sin to prattle,
but surely better than preaching to cattle,
so forgive me if I tattle!

Who can tell what's going to sell,
in the forest which tree fell?
iSuppli is flying high
its analysts are eating cherry pie...
(maybe the filling squirted in my eye?)

For sure its price reduced,
war they have deduced,
the only winner is the thinner!

The newest slash to chase a crash,
will surely fund the biggest splash,
but will it deplete your cash stash?

Surely mine is just so fine,
on it a fortunate Toshiba will soon dine,
and not a whimper nor a whine
shall you hear from the viewer of its ghostly shine.

Time to bed the moribund SED,
to which some are excessively wed...
There's little to stave its inevitable grave
at least future buyers will save,
and in plasma's reflection I can shave!
Naaaah

LCD is gonna go the way Sony Betamax did versus the VHS.

Plasma is King and shall rule the kingdom.
post #52 of 63
Actually, carbon nanotube displays should wipe the floor with both of them--if they ever becomes a commercial reality, that is. If it isn't carbon nanotube, it'll almost certainly be something else new. They'll keep trying until they duplicate or exceed the capabilities of the venerable old CRT, only in a much larger viewing area. So all this bickering over whether LCD or plasma is going to "win" is rather pointless.
post #53 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isochroma


There is no battle; LCD already won...
That is because LCDs, unlike plasmas, are available in the cabinet-friendly sub-40" sizes (while they do exist, plasmas in those sizes are far from common). Also, until this year, simply looking at the 40" to 50" *overlap sizes* where you find projection, LCD DV, and plasmas, it's been projection models at the price floor, than LCD DV, followed by plasmas (even from the same manufacturer). However, this year, things have been kinda stood on their ear with plasmas (I'm talking HD plasmas, not ED) replacing LCD DV in the middle of the pricing chain (it certainly didn't help LCD's case that Sony both cut features and raised prices on the new BRAVIA XBR2/XBR3 LCD models while Hitachi actually added features and lowered prices on the UltraVision plasmas). I had actually been considering LCDs, not plasmas, because I was originally thinking in terms of a cabinet (but going wall-mount later). However, with falling pricing on plasmas actually opening up the wall-mount option considerably earlier (and because I have wall-mounting as an option, I can now consider the 42" HD plasmas in addition to 40" and 46" LCDs), I am finding that there are more plasmas to choose from than I would have suspected (and in most cases, the 42" HD plasmas actually cost *less* than even the 40" LCD DV displays, let alone the 46" LCD displays).
post #54 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by PGHammer
(it certainly didn't help LCD's case that Sony both cut features and raised prices on the new BRAVIA XBR2/XBR3 LCD models while Hitachi actually added features and lowered prices on the UltraVision plasmas).
Agreed. Hitachi's current 55" plasma has to be one of the best plasma bargains out there!
post #55 of 63
You guys can debate that LCD's dont have great blacks but all I can tell you is the sharp 45"
at costco had blacks on level with the BEST plasma there. The panasonic. The Maxent plasma was very gray and washed out in comparison to the sharp. The Sony Bravia did not look as good as the Costco sharp aquos. Now in some PQ test the panasonic plasma MAY have better blacks.. MAYBE--but barely noticeable during normal viewing. Throw in the fact that there is no burn in with lcd and the resolutions can be greater and lcd seems to be a bit better. Oh and as far as gaming--the sharp has a 6ms response time. No lag there. However I could see why people choose plasma as I have seen many great plasmas--but the sharp and the new samsung are the only really great lcd's Ive seen. The sony bravia was pretty good as well. With larger LCD's becoming more affordable Plasma will die a slow death.
post #56 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdog2004
You guys can debate that LCD's dont have great blacks but all I can tell you is the sharp 45"
at costco had blacks on level with the BEST plasma there.
I was at Fry's the other day. They have many Sharp panels. They were displaying some sort of fashion show. The black dresses the models were wearing were excellent when viewed from directly on-axis (perpendicular to panel). But the dresses turned very grey, practically light grey, as I moved more and more off-axis horizontally. I didn't think to compare plasma at the same extreme off-axis angles, but I'd expect plasma to be better.
post #57 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdog2004
You guys can debate that LCD's dont have great blacks but all I can tell you is the sharp 45"
at costco had blacks on level with the BEST plasma there.
Try viewing the Sharp and the Panasonic plasma in a dark room, with light control, as I have. You will see the difference in black level performance, with the plasma achieving darker blacks. Assessing these things in store lighting, on displays you haven't calibrated isn't very conclusive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gdog2004
Now in some PQ test the panasonic plasma MAY have better blacks.. MAYBE--but barely noticeable during normal viewing.
Depends what your "normal viewing" is. I do my "critical viewing" at night time, and I like to watch films with the lights off, as do many people on this forum. Under those conditions black levels become more critical to maintaining a rich, dimensional image.

In my "normal viewing" I would be constantly aware of the LCD's higher black levels.

Also, as I (and others) have pointed out before, the black levels on LCD suffer further
when not viewed directly on axis. The more you move off-side, the higher and more uneven the brightness becomes in the dark areas. Since I often watch movies with other people, this off-axis problem becomes even more problematical.

LCDs are great, and the black levels are certainly improving. But it helps to make sure you are doing some controlled comparisons, rather than reporting how things look at Cosco.
post #58 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness
Assessing these things in store lighting, on displays you haven't calibrated isn't very conclusive.
Ditto. Costco AV Specialists? :eek:
post #59 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by mule65
Ditto. Costco AV Specialists? :eek:
No probably not--but they have the same pimply faced kids working there as CC and BB.
I certainly havent done the tests you have but am I to assume that the maxent plasma that looked so grey in comparison to the sharp will all of the sudden look great and dark black if it displays grays in the daytime ?
I doubt it...there is some documentation to support my claim about this sharp.
Some may poo poo CNET but I would bet that the guys writing those columns have seen a heck of a lot more tv's side by side than just about anyone on this forum.

http://reviews.cnet.com/Sharp_LC_37D...?tag=pdtl-list
post #60 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood
No. LCD blacks are even gray in broad daylight.
That's simply not true with the latest panels that have "true" 1300:1 (not dynamic) contrast ratios.

The latest BRAVIAs (V2000, the European Equiv. of the V2500 coming out in USA in a couple of months) are totally black in anything other than a pitch-black room.

They're still not quite as good for shadow detail though. (and colour rendition / motion handling isn't even close)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyRey
I was going to go with an LCD over a plasma because of burn in, but after doing some research, I don't really think it will be a problem. I'm not sure why anyone would go with an lcd..considering they are so much more money, and simply don't have the PQ that plasmas have.

Am I wrong here?
From what I've seen, it's not an issue with the 9th Gen Panasonic panels. I've heard of a little image retention with the HD panels, but I didn't see any on my ED one after hours of gaming, or having a channel logo in a corner, and that's without having run it in, or turning the settings right down. Apparently once they're run in (1000 hours) you won't even see image retention on the HD ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tvbug
Naaaah

LCD is gonna go the way Sony Betamax did versus the VHS.

Plasma is King and shall rule the kingdom.
But Betamax was better...

I reckon LCD will "win" on the sales, because prices are coming down drastically, and they're getting bigger & better all the time, but I doubt they'll be up there with Plasma for image quality unless they can come up with a good solution to the sample-and-hold effect. (ClearLCD may or may not work - I've not demoed one of those LCDs, but it's only applied to 480i and 576i currently, so it's pointless right now anyway)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gdog2004
You guys can debate that LCD's dont have great blacks but all I can tell you is the sharp 45"
at costco had blacks on level with the BEST plasma there. The panasonic. The Maxent plasma was very gray and washed out in comparison to the sharp. The Sony Bravia did not look as good as the Costco sharp aquos. Now in some PQ test the panasonic plasma MAY have better blacks.. MAYBE--but barely noticeable during normal viewing. Throw in the fact that there is no burn in with lcd and the resolutions can be greater and lcd seems to be a bit better. Oh and as far as gaming--the sharp has a 6ms response time. No lag there. However I could see why people choose plasma as I have seen many great plasmas--but the sharp and the new samsung are the only really great lcd's Ive seen. The sony bravia was pretty good as well. With larger LCD's becoming more affordable Plasma will die a slow death.
Only in a bright room. Plasma blacks get worse the brighter the room is, and LCD gets better. This is due to Plasma being a light emitting technology with a big glass panel, and LCD being a light blocking technology with a very anti-reflective matte coating. (the high ambient light basically "cancels out" the LCD backlight)

In a dark room, there's no contest between LCD and Plasma right now, but it's getting closer all the time. LCD just doesn't have the depth to the image plasma has though, regardless of black levels.
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