Anyone uses pro cinema speakers, subwoofers here ? the BIG stuff ? - Page 2

If I recall you plan to use wall mount surround units...if so Digital04 is more familiar with those and could probably give you better advise on placing them.

Commercial cinemas use "arrays" of surrounds. Since your room has a good bit of length, you may need to do the same, only in a smaller scale. In a nice long room such as yours you might do four units (2 on each side) for side surrounds and another pair on the back wall for rear center duty for 7.1 material.

Placing the surrounds will depend on if your going to have two rows of seats and which row will be the main(best optimized) row. I've found in ht environments that it's a bit of a challenge to get even surround coverage to multiple rows without compromising the sound field some. Especially using direct radiator speakers. Again Digital04 is more versed in using these so I defer to him

I'm a big multi-channel music nut and to keep the tone even throughout the room I'm running 4670 floor-standers as my side surrounds. If you looked at my pics they were in the back corners...well I've since moved them to directly even with my rear row of seats and firing perpendicular (straight out) from the wall. The horns have a wide enough dispersion that it gives a really nice enveloping sound to both rows. Though the sound is a bit strong for the ones sitting on the ends.

I'm still deciding what to do for rear centers but i want to use the same components that are in the other speakers. I'm probably going to have to build them myself.

Can't much help on seating distance. I just know with my 13hd(16x9 native lcd) that 14-feet is about as close as you want to sit to a 118" diagonal screen. That said...the Mit's is dlp and should have a smoother image with far less screen door.

Surrounds...again hard to say. But in your case trying to do all 3632's would be quite the undertaking to say the least.

I use my room for probably at least 50% music and 30% movies and 20% hd satellite(hi-def sports mainly). Since music is my main use at the moment...i feel the overwhelming need to have all 6 or 7 speakers match. Especially after hearing how easy the non-matching RS-7's were to locate.

Now that hd dvd/bd is out...my room-use ratio may change a bit. It's hard to go back to 480p dvd's after watching an hd movie via satellite...the new hi-rez dvd's look even better than sat. from what few demo's I've seen personally.

I just hope they start putting out movies I would actually want to own...

I am currently using an all EAW Cinema Systems line up. I'm using the CB-153X LCR's and CR82FM surrounds. These are not powered models. The CB-153X's are pro cinema speakers designed for smaller cinemas, they have a 90 x 90 conical dispersion pattern that works well in the short throw home theater environment. I've gone through quite a few pro audio speakers in the past year looking for the right set for me (QSC, EV, JBL) and the EAW's are the one's I've chosen to live with. I like the three way design, IMO the 8" midrange reproduces voices with less sibilance and harshness than the two way systems with 12" and 15" LF/MF drivers that I've auditioned. The 15" LF driver in the CB-153x maintains authority in the mid and upper bass regions, crossed over to LAB12 v3 subs at 80Hz for subwoofing duty.


I've posted some more info and pics here.

mysphyt,

Looks like a great system.

How are you liking your ref50? I'm without decent processing right now due to a lightning strike. I've seen a few of these going fairly cheap on ebay and agon and was wondering how these sound. I remember back 6yrs or so ago that the ref30 was regarded by many as the pre/pro to have. I'm looking at the sher. p965, outlaw 990 and other similar priced new and used units.

Though I hate to spend a bunch of cash on a processor now cause within a year all the new hd audio formats will be common. I'll probably just buy a low-mid level receiver with pre-outs to tide me over for now.

Thanks,
Ken

Thank you,

Prior to the Ref50 I used a low-mid level Denon reciever with an Ebtech unbal/balanced converter to drive the system. The Ref50 with balanced outputs, a full feature set and cleaner sound was a huge step up for me. With that said, I'd think twice about buying the same model today (Series 1) as it has been superceded by the Ref50 S2 and won't support emerging formats.

Do any of you guys have experience with Danley products? The SH-100 looks like it might make for a good HT speaker. The DTS-20 sub has gotten some attention over in the subwoofer forum.

http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/

mysphyt,
How are you managing your LF - MF/HF cross overs for the L / C / R speakers?

I'm going to be using EV Q66 pro series amps but these can't be fitted with crossover cards like the EV CPS series which are specifically designed for cinema use.

As Ken pointed out earlier, some of the newer Crown amps like their CT series can be retro-fitted with ScreenArray PIP modules. One of these modules is made specifically for the JBL 3632's but I'm not into buying another set of amps......

EV do make the Dx38 Sound System Processor which could be used......$$$$ perhaps!

Also, I'm interested to know more about the Behringer Feedback destroyer and Parametric EQ that you are using....your schematic shows it's hooked up to your centre channel amp and your subwoofer amp.....can you tell me more about its function?

Thanks.

Just using the bass management of the B&K Ref 50 processor.


The Behringer is currently doing equalization duty for the subs and center (lvery light on the center). It is connected in series between the processor and power amps. The equalization is primarily room mode correction for the sub and some HF compensation for the center because it is mounted behind fabric and the LR are not. It is an OK unit as long as you are careful to keep all your signals within operating limits.

What I'd love to have is a Lake Processor. I'd use it on the L/C/R/SUB. It is up to 4 channels in so to do the full 7.1 would require 2. I'd also consider a Rane Dragnet DSP system or dBX 4800 DSP.

What do you guys think about three of these

http://www.djmart.com/jbl-3678-loudspeaker-system.html as LCR and 4 of these

http://lydrommet.ravn.no/artikkel/pr....html?id=15432

In a room 4 by 8 meters with some leaking. Is it possible to combine such a setup with commercial subwoofers like SVS pb12plus/2 or is it not recommendable?

thanks guys

all the best

PTT

Hi guys...just an update on my quest for proper rear centers. I'm about 80% done with building my "frankenstein's monster" rear centers.

Basically I've built a pair of wedge boxes 2.3cu.ft. in volume with medium fill. I stuffed a 2225h 15" woofer and a couple 4"x8.5" ports in each and tuning is around 50hz. The volume and port config was suggested over at a JBL forum.

On top will go a 2445 comp drivers sand 2385a lens on each. Xover point will be 500hz to match the rest of my speakers. Now in boxes this small I know it won't have the greatest bass extension but it should suffice.

I also replaced my damaged pre/pro with a Sherwood P965 which has an adjustable crossover. I'm pretty happy so far with the 60hz setting for the 4675's and 4670's.

Thank you very much mr digital. By the way do those speakers you mentioned need alot of space behind them, like most big hifi speakers does.

I have some experience with some rather big hornloaded 15" speakers and placing them to near the rear wall made them sound muddy /slow in the bass region.

But the JBL is probably made for placement near backwall?

Also I am confused by the crossover issues. Do I need an external active crossover ? Could I eventually use my Denon 3806 for such?

Thanks again this is very interessting thread. I would like to learn some more about this pro stuff. Seems like regular home theater is missing out on alot:-)

all the best
PTT

Digital, this is what I intend to do in my cinema. That is, build a full front baffle wall and flush mount the three 3632's into it..........with the MF / HF compression drivers angled downwards.

My only problem might be mounting the two 4645C's into the same wall. I'll probably have little space to fit them......particularly if they ideally should be underneath the 3632's. Do you think the 4645's will (could) work okay alongside the 3632 ScreenArrays?

I see that other people - including Ken, have mentioned that his subs sound better mounted against the side wall.....I'm going to have to experiment once the room is built.


Originally Posted by KenWH.

Ken, I wish I was as proficient and knowledgable. Anyway, where there's no appropriate level of skill, parting with money will have to suffice

I've been studying up on the 8340A's for surround duty and while I'm sure they'll be okay, I'm leaning more towards the AC2215/00's. This is because they have the same drivers in them as the 3632's and that's got to be a good thing..


Originally posted by mysphyt

Mysphyt, those look like great processors but don't you need to have amps with HD15 connectors to use them? I don't think the Q66's would work with any of these unfortunately.

I'm actually not sure securing any equalizers or crossovers right now because as Ken pointed out earlier, a good pre/pro may be able to handle all this. I haven't got my front end yet and wont be for a little while. I'll get this once the cinema is built - along with the projector.

The annoying problem down here though is that to get an equaliser or crossover when you need it means you'll be paying retail. A couple of good crossovers and equalisers (Rane & EV) have just become available to me at good prices and it's rare for them to come up......it's a kind of catch 22.

Kwikas, you may want to change your text color. Those of us using the alternate AVS color scheme (light grey background) are getting headaches from the yellow lettering!

Hi Greg.

Thanks for advising me. My screen seems to show that my yellow color posts are the same color as all the others who have contributed here (including your message).....

What about this?

Go into your profile and fix the settings...

I've used both Altec and JBL theater drivers and speakers in my hi-fis and HTs for many years and I prefer the Altec stuff. Modern JBL stuff sacrifices nuance and tonality for broad bandwidth, insane power handling and constant coverage, older JBL stuff often sounds better, mainly the woofers and horns not the compression drivers.

Best I had was a set of Altec A5 VOTs, next in preference were A7-500s. With their model 515 woofers and 1.4" 288 drivers the A5s have a little more heft and ease in the midrange than the A7s with their 416 woofers and 1" 802-902 drivers.

Of course Altec multicell and radial horns sound much nicer than JBL's (or anybody's) constant-directivity horns (IMO). The old Altec "Hollywood" tar-filled multicells are the finest horns I've heard, better than Edgar saladbowls even.

In my new house I'm using Altec 605 Duplex studio monitors as my mains, some A7-500s are in the garage awaiting new paint, then I'll move them into the HT and use the 605s as rears.

No doubt 515s will some day find their way into the 825 VOT cabinets and the 802-511s will someday be replaced with 288s on 1005 multicells, thus do A7s morph into A5s.

Can any of you guys tell me what you think about using JBL AC2215/00's as surrounds rather than the 8340's? The drivers in the 2215/00's are the same as in my 3632 ScreenArrays.........

Also your thoughts on using one JBL 4642A sub vs 2 4645C's?

Crown and JBL have recently released the CDi series of amps specifically designed for JBL theatre speakers. In their recommended data for a system which is exactly what I want, they suggest using one CDi1000 amp for each of the 3632's (biamped), one CDi2000 amp for the 4642A sub (bridged mono) and one CDi2000 amp for six 8340 surrounds.

Now that I've finished my surrounds and hear how seamless the sound is...I totally suggest using surrounds that match the fronts as much as possible.

I can give you some insite on the subs your looking at also. I have a 4642a which I ran "stock" for about a year. Paired with a qsc plx1602 it is an excellent sounding sub. About two months ago I dropped in some 2242 drivers which are used in the 4645c's into the 4642 cabinent. I would suggest just going with two 4645c's as the drivers are a setup from the ones in the 4642.

Overall I have more output...deeper extension without losing any sound quality after doing the driver swap.

Ken,

I can't get better advice than that. Actually, I suspected that the 2215/00 speakers would be better sounding than the 8340 surrounds in my system. I was pleased when I found that JBL actually make a cabinet that uses a couple of the same drivers found in the 3632's.......they should be a good match up. I'll run 3 pairs of 2215/00 surrounds using the EV Q44's. The EV Q66's can do duty on the 3632's.......

Great advice on the 4642A vs 4645C too - thanks. I'll go with two 4645C's......


Tom,

Perhaps slightly off topic but what amps are you using to drive the Altec's may I ask? Did you - or do you, run pro amps with these? Given the history you've had with pro cinema speakers, I'm interested to know whether you (or anyone else here) can comment on something I've heard as regards the use of pro amps.

I have been told on more than one occassion that pro amps perform best when they're running hard - by that I mean at higher power output. Apparently, they can have a tendancy to falter or 'power oscillate' at lower volumes..........I'd be interested to hear what you may have found. I never heard this comment made by others on the forum when I was 'shopping' for my pro amps.....but perhaps they all run theirs at full blast........


mysphyt,

Would you buy the ref50 S2 to replace your S1 and if you did, how much of the crossover and EQ could be handled by the ref50 S2? Would it negate the need for a Dolby Lake, DBX Drive rack or Rane etc?