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AutumnWave / OnAir USB HDTV Tuners

post #1 of 2947
7/5/06 at 9:03am
Thread Starter 
Hello,
This thread is dedicated to the discussion of the OnAir HDTV Tuners by OnAir Solution and AutumnWave. It replaces the old thread here:
Sasem OnAir USB HDTV

Background
AutumnWave is the North American division of OnAir Solution Co., LTD.

Useful Information:
- Technical Support: tech@autumnwave.com
- AutumnWave website (with Driver & Software Updates): www.AutumnWave.com

Feel free to post any questions/concerns regarding AutumnWave / OnAir Solution products.

Thanks,
- Ryan Pertusio

- - - - - - - - - -

Before posting a reply, the best thing to do is Search this Thread (which can be found in the upper right of this post. (Note: Any reply by 'rpertusio' was written by me.)
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #2 of 2947
7/5/06 at 11:55am
mark for later reading...
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post #3 of 2947
7/6/06 at 6:16am
Thread Starter 
Many customers are confused between the different USB HDTV products. I have put together a Comparison Chart, and have placed it on the AutumnWave website here:
Comparison Chart - OnAir USB HDTV Products

Thanks,
- Ryan Pertusio
AutumnWave Technical Support
OnAir Solution North America
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post #4 of 2947
7/6/06 at 6:28am
I was becoming quite interested until I saw no DTV support in MCE

How come? When will support for MCE be added? What about DTV in SageTV ??

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post #5 of 2947
7/6/06 at 7:11am
Thread Starter 
Hello Jim,
Digital TV on MCE can be used with our software, the "OnAir USB HDTV Program". There is preliminary BDA driver support for the GT which allows a number of programs to use our device, including SageTV. You may find that Digital TV works perfectly in SageTV for the GT.

Thanks,
- Ryan Pertusio
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post #6 of 2947
7/6/06 at 8:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpertusio View Post

Many customers are confused between the different USB HDTV products. I have put together a Comparison Chart, and have placed it on the AutumnWave website here:
Comparison Chart - OnAir USB HDTV Products

Thanks,
- Ryan Pertusio
AutumnWave Technical Support
OnAir Solution North America

Now I'm confused

Comparing the original OnAir USB HDTV to OnAir USB HDTV Creator.
Dolby Digital 5.1 Channel decoding and output.
Why does it state supported on Creator but not original?
I do not see any hardware outputs in the photo of Creator.
Original also has no DD 5.1 hardware outputs, but does work great for DD 5.1, and is in supported.

Also, I don't see the two coax inputs listed anywhere?
The original had combo digital/analog input plus a second input for digital only.
Both inputs could be used at the same time.
Have you eliminated the second coax input on newest products?

Thanks,
Rob
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post #7 of 2947
7/6/06 at 8:47am
Thread Starter 
The last thing I'd want is to create confusion! Let me clarify a few things...

The original OnAir USB HDTV device uses an InterVideo decoder (which provides Dolby Surround only). The Creator (and the GT) use the nVidia PureVideo decoder (which supports Dolby Surround & 5.1). [Note: If you install an OEM version of the nVidia PureVideo decoder on your computer with the original HDTV device, then you will be able to get 5.1 audio]

The 5.1 audio is not an output of the OnAir USB HDTV device, but rather is from your sound card. For example, watch a 5.1 HD show and your sound card (assuming it supports 5.1) will playback in 5.1 audio.

The 2 coax inputs were a limitation of the older 'Philips' tuner in the original models. The Creator uses a single coax input, which handles Analog + Digital on its 5th Generation LG tuner/demodulator.

Thanks, I hope that answered your questions!
- Ryan Pertusio
AutumnWave Technical Support
OnAir Solution North America
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post #8 of 2947
7/6/06 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpertusio View Post

Hello Jim,
Digital TV on MCE can be used with our software, the "OnAir USB HDTV Program". There is preliminary BDA driver support for the GT which allows a number of programs to use our device, including SageTV. You may find that Digital TV works perfectly in SageTV for the GT.

Thanks,
- Ryan Pertusio

Why is just GT not Creator? Any plan of BDA driver for Creator?
How about BeyondTV? Will it support BeyondTV?
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post #9 of 2947
7/6/06 at 12:39pm
Thread Starter 
The OnAir USB HDTV and the Creator use a very similar driver. The driver was written a few years ago, and improved on since then. The GT is a new product. The driver had to be developed from 'scratch'... and thus it was BDA from the start. The Creator driver must be completely overhauled to become BDA compliant. The plan is to eventually have a BDA driver for the Creator as well, but I don't have an estimated timeline for that.

The GT works with BeyondTV with it's BDA drivers. As for the Creator, you may want to contact SnapStream directly regarding the support of the device with its current WDM driver... until a BDA driver is developed for it.

Thanks,
- Ryan Pertusio
AutumnWave Technical Support
OnAir Solution North America
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post #10 of 2947
7/6/06 at 1:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpertusio View Post


The original OnAir USB HDTV device uses an InterVideo decoder (which provides Dolby Surround only). The Creator (and the GT) use the nVidia PureVideo decoder (which supports Dolby Surround & 5.1). [Note: If you install an OEM version of the nVidia PureVideo decoder on your computer with the original HDTV device, then you will be able to get 5.1 audio]


The 2 coax inputs were a limitation of the older 'Philips' tuner in the original models. The Creator uses a single coax input, which handles Analog + Digital on its 5th Generation LG tuner/demodulator.


With the original, I definitely get 100% Dolby Digital 5.1 when it is broadcast as such. We have always had DD 5.1, even with the early Sasem drivers and software. No nvidia stuff installed or nvidia graphs used. I do have Intervideo installed from a codec pack (mpeg2 decoders v2.04) for use with MyTheatre, with full SPDIF support, so perhaps that is why DD 5.1 also works with OnAir? Yes, I can choose Dolby surround if I wish, but instead choose the DD 5.1 option from the OnAir software, and as stated, it works 100%. Sure, many broadcasts are only DD 2.1, and for those nothing will give you true DD 5.1, but things like Nascar Racing on Fox are full DD 5.1 and it works like it is supposed to.

For myself, the two separate coax inputs are a great "feature". Too bad it is missing on the newer units.
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post #11 of 2947
7/6/06 at 1:50pm
Am I correct in that none of the models can capture ATSC in MCE2005?
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post #12 of 2947
7/6/06 at 2:00pm
Thread Starter 
Not yet, grittree. There are some minor issues with the BDA driver that prevent the signal from being detected within MCE 2005. (However the device is recognized as a valid Digital device within MCE 2005.)

Currently, ATSC can be captured using our provided software (OnAir USB HDTV Program) when running on MCE 2005 (with the Media Center interface minimized/closed.)

Thanks,
- Ryan Pertusio
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post #13 of 2947
7/6/06 at 3:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpertusio View Post

The GT works with BeyondTV with it's BDA drivers.

For OTA reception, not digital cable (QAM).
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post #14 of 2947
7/6/06 at 5:49pm
So I took the info from the website at face value, and didn't try the EPG interface for digital cable (QAM) until now. It does work for several channels. It's not pretty -- it's not a grid like TitanTV/BeyondTV -- and the interface is not intuitive, but it's there.

(And some information is missing....and it only goes out to the next morning(?). Maybe it's in need of an update.)
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post #15 of 2947
7/7/06 at 7:52am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgriffin View Post

For OTA reception, not digital cable (QAM).

QAM is not supported for any tuner in BeyondTV (as far as I know.)

Here's why:
Currently, manufacturers integrate QAM capabilities with a WDM driver. For BeyondTV to support QAM, manufacturers (like OnAir Solution) must write BDA drivers that support QAM. However, Microsoft does not have QAM capabilities for BDA drivers yet... so both manufacturers and BeyondTV cannot do much. (For BeyondTV to support QAM, SnapStream would have to work with the non-standardized WDM drivers from each manufacturer... a huge undertaking.)

Essentially, we probably won't see QAM support in BeyondTV until Microsoft updates the BDA spec for QAM AND manufacturers develop from this spec. (I believe the spec is called 'PDBA' and won't come out until 2007, after Vista.)

I am looking into ways to improve the interface without slowing the software down.

Regarding EPG... this information is provided by your cable company (and/or OTA broadcaster). The EPG information is transmitted digitally with the signal, much like CC is transmitted. It is up to the broadcaster on how much data and how complete the data is when they send the transport stream. You should contact the broadcaster or cable company if you are seeing incomplete data.

If only data is available for the next morning, it is all the channel is transmitting. There is space for up to 16 days of information, but many only decide to transmit a few days worth. See What you Need to Know (pdf) for more info about the "Event Information Table" or "EIT" which contains this information.

I hope this helps!
- Ryan Pertusio
AutumnWave Technical Support
OnAir Solution North America
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post #16 of 2947
7/7/06 at 2:09pm
Yes, this is good clarification.

I mentioned that the BeyondTV/BDA support was available for OTA only in case someone else didn't know.

For integration using QAM, I'm interested in writing an application in which I can define analog/QAM channel equivalency. The app will use webservices to check the BeyondTV schedule and then put the equivalent QAM recordings into the OnAir schedule. When it's done recording, it will update BeyondTV with the information about the QAM recordings and then (optionally) delete the identical analog recordings. So, I guess the missing part is the information about the OnAir schedule -- what is the file format, will the scheduler recognize changes to the file, how often does the scheduler check it, etc. -- because the BeyondTV interface is documented. This should give me pretty good QAM functionality under BeyondTV.
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post #17 of 2947
7/7/06 at 2:16pm
So anyone have one? Reviews availble?
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post #18 of 2947
7/7/06 at 2:51pm
Yes, check out the old thread (toward the end):

Quote:
Originally Posted by rpertusio View Post

Sasem OnAir USB HDTV

The GT is a cool little unit. I can only speak to using it with analog and digital cable, not OTA, which is what BeyondTV/MCE use (rpertusio's discussion of the BDA drivers). It's a very sensitive tuner, and it's a small unit that attaches by USB 2. Works as advertised and I haven't seen any problems (besides a few dull-looking interface windows) with the software.
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post #19 of 2947
7/8/06 at 5:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpertusio View Post

Feel free to post any questions/concerns regarding AutumnWave / OnAir Solution products.

I just got a Compaq v4440 laptop (WinXP Pro, 512MB RAM, 1.7GHz Pentium M Centrino, Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 800 video). I also have a desktop (WinXP Pro, 1GB RAM, 2.4 GHz Pentium 4, and an nVidia GeForce4 Ti 4200 video).

I'd like to get a USB HDTV tuner card--but am concerned about compatibility issues. What problems will I have using the software with my current hardware? I suppose I could upgrade my desktop video card if I really had to--but that's not feasible on my laptop.

Also, I currently have a Hauppage (non-HD) tuner card installed in my desktop--will there be any conflicts if I leave it and it's software installed?

Thanks,

...Rob
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post #20 of 2947
7/10/06 at 9:31am
Thread Starter 
Rob,
Your Laptop is actually fine. Just be sure you have the latest drivers for the Intel Video graphics. (Earlier driver versions have DxVA problems.) You have sufficient RAM and processing speed.

Your Desktop will most likely have problems, no matter what HDTV product you end up buying. The problem is that the GeForce TI series does not support DirectX Video Acceleration (DxVA). Our software does operate without DxVA support, but it would use your CPU for processing power. If you have the ability to upgrade the card, get something with DxVA support.

- - - - - - - - - -
Here is a list of cards with DxVA support. (Also, newer cards that aren't on this list should also support DxVA):

Desktop PC:
ATI Radeon 7200, 7500, 8500, 9000, 9100, 9200, 9500, 9550, 9600, 9700, 9800
Radeon X300, X600, X700, X800
Radeon 9100 IGP

nVidia GeForce 4 MX 420, 440, 460, 4000
GeForce FX 5200, 5300, 5600, 5700, 5750, 5800, 5900, 6200, 6600, 6800

Laptop/Notebook PC:
ATI Mobility Radeon 7500, 9000, 9600, 9700, 9800
Mobility Radeon X200, X600, X700

nVidia GeForce Go 420, 440, 460
GeForce FX Go 5100, 5200, 5600, 5650, 5700, 6200, 6600, 5800

For Intel Extreme Graphics 2 (Intel 865G, 82852, 82855), use driver v6.14.10.3722 or higher to support DxVA.
- - - - - - - - - -


Your Hauppage card should not cause any problems. (If you were to watch TV simultaneously on both devices... you may see problems, though.)

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask!

- Ryan Pertusio
AutumnWave Technical Support
OnAir Solution North America
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post #21 of 2947
7/10/06 at 4:33pm
Ryan,
Any ETA on BDA driver for Creator? Any ballpark number is fine, like 3-6 months, a year? Because I just purchased the Creator few days ago, and planing to return it and exchange for a GT if the BDA driver for Creator is not any time soon...but I will have to eat the 20% restocking fee plus shipping this way
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post #22 of 2947
7/11/06 at 5:27am
Thread Starter 
skycat,
We are reviewing the timeline for BDA driver development. I hope to have an answer for you in the next week.

- Ryan Pertusio
AutumnWave Technical Support
OnAir Solution North America
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post #23 of 2947
7/11/06 at 8:37pm
Well I ordered one but may refuse shipment as I also ordered the VBOX and Artec from pcalchemy at same price as the one. Thos two arrive a day earlier so I may do some testing and then decide. I'll let you know how it goes.
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post #24 of 2947
7/12/06 at 1:44pm
Yep, the BDA support *is* in there. The GT was great, but now its reallty impressive. BDA, QAM, and analog. Cool!
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post #25 of 2947
7/13/06 at 8:58am
Thread Starter 
Version 2.99P of our software for the OnAir USB HDTV Creator and GT has been released and is available for download! Please use with the latest driver. You can find both in our download section:

OnAir USB HDTV Creator:
- Program v2.99P
- Driver v2.0.0.61

OnAir USB HDTV GT:
- Program v2.99P
- Driver v1.2.5.3a


The Bug Fixes, Additions, & Changes include the following...


Bug Fixes:
  1. Fixed a problem where changing the DTV file extension to ".ts"
    or ".tp" is not reflected in the file name when using the recording
    function.
  2. Fixed a problem where viewing full screen on a second monitor with a different resolution causes improper screen maximization.
  3. Fixed a problem where still image capture in ".jpg[/img]
  4. Fixed
    a problem where the program did not play the second file after clicking
    the next file. This occurred when the program was launched by opening an
    A/V stream file from Windows Explorer.
  5. Fixed a problem where the program could not playback an Audio stream recorded with only an Audio channel.
  6. When recording during file playback, the program did not automatically close the capture file when playback had finished.
Additions & Changes:
  1. Context Menu (displayed when right-clicking the TV window)
    1. The context menu is rearranged with uniform menus for all modes (ATV,VIDEO,SVIDEO,DTV,FILE,DVHS).
    2. The D-VHS mode is separated from the "Video Input" menu.
      The D-VHS mode menu has a sub-menu with DTV, FILE, and TAPE sources for easy control of a D-VHS device.
    3. User definable commands are added, executed by using the F1 to F8 keys or the menu.
      The command is defined on the remote control tab/Options.
  2. Video aspect ratio
    1. PanScan supports wide monitors for 16:9 ratio video sources.
    2. The aspect ratio of the File mode is separately managed from other modes.
  3. Channel manager
    1. The hide/show state of the Channel Manager window is saved.
  4. EPG
    1. After changing the channel, newly received EPG information for the current time will be displayed, if available.
  5. Scan Channel
    1. The program should no longer crash when the PMT count does not match the TVCT or CVCT count.
  6. TV window
    1. The overlay background][color is changed to pure black.
  7. User defined function.
    The hide/show state of the "Time information on/off" command is saved.
  8. Color Adjustment
    1. Context menu (displayed by right-clicking the window) has the sub-menu "Set current value to all channels of current mode"
  9. Options/Other tab
    1. "Display time as AM/PM" option is applied to the time information in the EPG and Scheduler.
  10. Recording
    1. Other applications can access files being recorded using sharing rule (file lock removed).
    2. "Record all CHs of one physical CH for DTV mode" option is added in the Options/Video Cap tab.


- - - - - - - - - -

Just a note... I know many of you (Beefcake, jgenemans, bkloppenborg) have discussed having the software option to record the entire transport stream (including all sub-programs). There is now an option for this (see above feature 10.2)

Thanks,
- Ryan Pertusio
AutumnWave Technical Support
OnAir Solution North America
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post #26 of 2947
7/13/06 at 8:19pm
Hey tried out the other competitors to this...

see thread here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...75#post8002275

This one will be arriving tomorrow at almost 75% more of the costbut if it works I would keep it. The other I believe wil be going back.
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post #27 of 2947
7/13/06 at 8:21pm
Ryan will this work with BeyondTV?

Edit I now see this on page 1, doh!
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post #28 of 2947
7/14/06 at 4:37am
Thread Starter 
clintroberts,
I would encourage you to give our HDTV tuner a try. If you ordered the 'GT', then yes, you should be fairly successful in using it with BeyondTV. (Of course we can never fully guarantee our products will be 100% compatible with 3rd party programs, but I hope you give it a chance!)

Thanks,
- Ryan Pertusio
AutumnWave Technical Support
OnAir Solution North America
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post #29 of 2947
7/14/06 at 4:25pm
Hey Ryan, thanks for convincing me to accept the GT. I downloaded the driver from the internet and the software and hooked it to the same computer I was trying the other two on. Boy what a waste of time that was yesterday trying to get those to work. After installing the driver I installed the software and scanned for channels. It found all the channels! both digital and analog. The software makes sense too. And the remote control works well too. There are literally no audio or video synch issue and it looks just like my OTA receiver I was talking about. I never expected it to be this good! especially after trying to get the VBOX and the Artec to work. Yes this one was $179 and the Artec was only $80 but this is worth the $100 more. Now if I can hook my PC up to the projector and have no issues I will be over joyed. If it does slow down the system I will be happy to watch on the laptop. I have been waiting for 2-3 years and am estatic. I sound as if I would be getting a kick back for this review but I am just really impressed. Nice work guys. Highly recommended!!!
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post #30 of 2947
7/14/06 at 4:32pm
Oh and I will save my money on buying BeyondTV. The software on this seems more than sufficient. I am not a power watcher/recorder but just want to watch and record a few primetime shows. Yes, so one of them is So YOU THINK YOU CAN DANCE! Flame away. My frustration is gone...so I can handle it now
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