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Don't dump your CRT RPTV! - Page 337

post #10081 of 11731
12/22/11 at 7:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by obxdiver View Post

You should have entered in the CNET settings in the THX Movie mode for an even more outstanding PQ.

Have you had the TV calibrated yet or just been using settings like what you found on CNET? Just curious, cause I'm kinda assuming you're still in the break in period, thus no calibration. If you have though, what kind of things did they do with it?

Reason I'm asking is, when my father got his flat panel a few years back, he had Best Buy's Geek Squad do the calibration, and I didn't think that a bad thing as they were newly ISF certified. When the guy spent less than 2 hours setting it up and used no source material other than his laptop to set values and a colorometer, I was kinda shocked. He merely flipped around to various channels and tweaked settings that way rather than having a go-to scene. Anyway, just curious.
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post #10082 of 11731
12/22/11 at 7:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post

Have you had the TV calibrated yet or just been using settings like what you found on CNET? Just curious, cause I'm kinda assuming you're still in the break in period, thus no calibration. If you have though, what kind of things did they do with it?

Reason I'm asking is, when my father got his flat panel a few years back, he had Best Buy's Geek Squad do the calibration, and I didn't think that a bad thing as they were newly ISF certified. When the guy spent less than 2 hours setting it up and used no source material other than his laptop to set values and a colorometer, I was kinda shocked. He merely flipped around to various channels and tweaked settings that way rather than having a go-to scene. Anyway, just curious.

I have heard that the BB geek squad calibrators are only given 2 hours to do a job that takes much longer.
I would never hire them.
I have not had my set calibrated, and frankly, don't think it needs it.
With the C-Net settings, which are from a full blown ISF calibration of the set are very very nice. Flesh tones are spot on.
I have put the Spears & Munsil calibration disk in, and everything is perfect with the test patterns.
I probably will not have it calibrated. With the numerous settings in the "Advanced" user menu with drives and gains of all 6 colors, anyone can do it.
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post #10083 of 11731
12/22/11 at 4:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post


How can you possibly deduce I putting down New Jersey?

I was saying the 65813 gets a chance to see the world. It's a good thing.


Well, I am happy to help keep good CRT RPTVs in operation, even if it means that the set has to live in NJ (Kidding! I quite like it here and I am a transplant from the CA coast!)

At the end of a 15 hr day (12 hrs on the road & 3 hrs evaluating and loading the TV on my truck with obxdiver) the 65813 was safely at its new home.

Everything is now all set up in my HT and my Oppo 93, Ruku, and OTA all look great going through the Lumagen HDQ to the Mits. The increased screen size, video processor and better TV calibration combined to make a anoticeable improvement over my Pro-610HD. I did take the opportunity to clean the lenses of the Mits, but not the deep optics. Overall, this was definitely a win-win situation. Thanks again to all for the responses/advice and thanks to obxdiver (a great guy and a much bigger HT enthusiast than I!).

Now, if anyone knows someone who wants a Pioneer Pro-610HD (in great condition with re-soldered PS board, just needs the optics cleaned and a good calibration), please let me know. It's free to a good home.
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post #10084 of 11731
12/22/11 at 9:17pm
Got a freebie rca P52955, will not turn on, sounds like relay ticking in back
near the fuse, but no lite blinking on the front panel. The fuse is good.
Checked ground to fuse only has 74vac. Anyone have any ideals what to check?
Thanks
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post #10085 of 11731
12/23/11 at 1:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnj314159 View Post

Well, I am happy to help keep good CRT RPTVs in operation, even if it means that the set has to live in NJ (Kidding! I quite like it here and I am a transplant from the CA coast!)

At the end of a 15 hr day (12 hrs on the road & 3 hrs evaluating and loading the TV on my truck with obxdiver) the 65813 was safely at its new home.

Everything is now all set up in my HT and my Oppo 93, Ruku, and OTA all look great going through the Lumagen HDQ to the Mits. The increased screen size, video processor and better TV calibration combined to make a anoticeable improvement over my Pro-610HD. I did take the opportunity to clean the lenses of the Mits, but not the deep optics. Overall, this was definitely a win-win situation. Thanks again to all for the responses/advice and thanks to obxdiver (a great guy and a much bigger HT enthusiast than I!).

Now, if anyone knows someone who wants a Pioneer Pro-610HD (in great condition with re-soldered PS board, just needs the optics cleaned and a good calibration), please let me know. It's free to a good home.

I am so glad my Mits 65813 went to such a purist videophile. It should bring you years of pleasurable viewing
Thanks for driving so far and getting her out of my way.
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post #10086 of 11731
12/23/11 at 8:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnj314159 View Post

...

Everything is now all set up in my HT and my Oppo 93, Ruku, and OTA all look great going through the Lumagen HDQ to the Mits. The increased screen size, video processor and better TV calibration combined to make a a noticeable improvement over my Pro-610HD. I did take the opportunity to clean the lenses of the Mits, but not the deep optics...

Congratulations!

Have you tried doing the 64 point convergence yet?

Very generous offer regarding the Pioneer...full of the spirit of the season.
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post #10087 of 11731
12/23/11 at 9:17am
I went to Paul's Big Screen (I am the King!) yesterday just to get my eyeballs on the Sharpe 80" and see if they had the Elite. No dice on the latter, but they did have the 80". Unfortunately they were playing a feed that was going to every other TV in the store, so vid quality sucked, which then showed all the things that can go wrong with LCD in a hurry. Still, the size of the thing put a smile on my face. Then I walked around to the other side of the store and they had a 93" DLP going. 93"!! That thing was massive. My brain was in battle with itself, loving the preposterous size but not loving the image quality. I wasn't gonna hassle the sales guy to do anything about showing me a source direct feed as I'm not purchasing anything anytime soon, but they really weren't doing themselves any favors with what was being shown. For those playing at home, it was 'Despicable Me' and it looked like crap compared to what I know it could look like. I did walk away knowing that I should probably find something with a matte screen, cause the glossy somehow seemed even more reflective than my Pio 510 with it's glare screen on. Also, I put my eyes up to their demo 3D glasses, and as soon as it made contact with my eye glasses, I could totally obviously annoyingly see the active shutter. Pull 'em off a centimeter so that no contact was being made, no problem. Weird.

Later that day, I drove by this place called The Digital Ear. The only TV they even had (this was an audiophiles paradise) was a 63" Runco plasma (and a Kuro tucked away in a corner). I really wanted to see it turned on, cause the thing was $10,000. The sales guy was super nice and talked with me for quite a while, but since again he knew there was gonna be no sale, he wasn't gonna bother. I was so intimidated by the prices that I was kinda embarrassed to be in there (with my 6 year old in tow no less). Good thing to come out of that though was, they do video AND audio calibration specific to your room requirements, not just plugging in numbers like a Best Buy would do.

Anyways, I feel a touch more informed now. Not by much, but a little. Maybe I'll go clean my optics again and wish for Santa to gamma correct my black levels.
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post #10088 of 11731
12/23/11 at 9:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post

I went to Paul's Big Screen (I am the King!) yesterday just to get my eyeballs on the Sharpe 80" and see if they had the Elite. No dice on the latter, but they did have the 80". Unfortunately they were playing a feed that was going to every other TV in the store, so vid quality sucked, which then showed all the things that can go wrong with LCD in a hurry. Still, the size of the thing put a smile on my face. Then I walked around to the other side of the store and they had a 93" DLP going. 93"!! That thing was massive. My brain was in battle with itself, loving the preposterous size but not loving the image quality...

I saw the 80 inch at Paul's with Avatar playing, and even if it may not be up to the Elite in image quality, the sheer impact of the image was astonishing. The Paul's I went to only has the Elite for order, not for demoing.

I went elsewhere for ABing the Elite and 80 inch, and there it was feed for the 80 inch, and Star Trek for the Elite.

If Sharp comes out with an 80 inch Elite with all the bugs worked out, or a 90 inch Aquos, those panels will be amazing for 3D, and Mitsubishi will be compelled to do something dramatic to stay competitive.

The 92 inch Mits DLP was a disappointment for me. The image I saw was sharp, but the light output was Scrooge-like. It will look like an X Files episode compared to a 90 inch Aquos. You would think that Mits could have found a way to put a 200+ watt bulb in there.

All displays have tradeoffs. Even with some SDE, an 80 inch Elite or 90 inch Aquos will have tremendous punch for a home theater experience, particularly for 3D, which is very dependent on light output.

And yeah, prices are crazy.

Great bit of reporting, by the way. I felt I was right there with you and your six year old.

Happy Holidays.
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post #10089 of 11731
12/23/11 at 9:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

The 92 inch Mits DLP was a disappointment for me. The image I saw was sharp, but the light output was Scrooge-like. It will look like an X Files episode compared to a 90 inch Aquos.

Yep, right on the money. It was flanked by a plasma and and lcd, so it looked dim. It strangely had a 'soft' feel to it. I was darting my eyes back and forth to see if it was true or not, couldn't tell for sure, but that was the feeling I got.

And yeah, if you are gonna have 3D at home, going big would be a HUGE plus. Too bad that DLP set didn't have it though. Oops.
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post #10090 of 11731
12/23/11 at 9:48am
I knew this would happen. A good example why you don't want to be an early adopter... This is actually cool. I've always thought 3D was a passing fad--at least once a decade. But, as I've aged and need to wear glasses to truly enjoy HD content at a distance now, the 3D thing held no interest for me.

But this does...especially if we can artificially control it... and, if it can be done with our RPTV sets, which it appears may be a possibility!

Check it:
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...136091248.html

P.S. I have my CR-calibrated 710 in it's new spot with the shim mod. It's fantastic! I will post some pics...but I am waiting on a demo disc, since nobody is interested in FE anymore. LOL... Long live RPCRT!
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post #10091 of 11731
12/23/11 at 9:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgruessing68 View Post

I knew this would happen. A good example why you don't want to be an early adopter... This is actually cool. I've always thought 3D was a passing fad--at least once a decade. But, as I've aged and need to wear glasses to truly enjoy HD content at a distance now, the 3D thing held no interest for me.

But this does...especially if we can artificially control it... and, if it can be done with our RPTV sets, which it appears may be a possibility!

Check it:
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...136091248.html

P.S. I have my CR-calibrated 710 in it's new spot with the shim mod. It's fantastic! I will post some pics...but I am waiting on a demo disc, since nobody is interested in FE anymore. LOL... Long live RPCRT!

Interesting post. I have the feeling , though, that new equipment will probably be involved all the way down the chain.

Last year Toshiba showed a glasses-less 55 inch display that is supposed to reemerge at CES.
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post #10092 of 11731
12/23/11 at 10:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

Just a heads up for a source to D/L various brands of service manuals for free.
For just a few examples of what can be found there, here is some Mitsubishi CRT RPTV manuals.

http://elektrotanya.com/?q=showresul...oria=&kat2=all

If you don't have one of the above sets, then just enter in your model number for the set you own and do a search.

Like for you Pioneer owners, here is the 510/610/710 manuals.

http://elektrotanya.com/?q=showresul...oria=&kat2=all

The Pioneer 520/620/720 series sets.

http://elektrotanya.com/?q=showresul...oria=&kat2=all

And the Pioneer 530/630/730 sets.

http://elektrotanya.com/?q=showresul...oria=&kat2=all

Awesome! Thanks!
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post #10093 of 11731
12/23/11 at 11:03am
Here's a few more links to Ultra D:
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Ultra...1-242692.shtml

http://www.engadget.com/2011/12/23/s...-at-ces-again/

It will be interesting to see how their products will compare to Toshiba's 55, which by the way is a near 4K device where the extra resolution is used to enhance the 3D.

Autostereoscopic displays appeared a few years ago from Taiwan's Chimei, and another maker if I recall correctly.

From the above links it looks like dedicated displays are involved.

The only 3D on our CRT RPTVs would be something like Bob's 720p Panasonic with VIP 3D.
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post #10094 of 11731
12/23/11 at 11:50am
So am I getting this right? It's an external converter box that could be attached to any TV? That's interesting...
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post #10095 of 11731
12/23/11 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post

So am I getting this right? It's an external converter box that could be attached to any TV? That's interesting...

It's not clear... we may need to wait for the reactions from their debut at CES 2012.
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post #10096 of 11731
12/23/11 at 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgruessing68 View Post

It's not clear... we may need to wait for the reactions from their debut at CES 2012.

I believe these will be dedicated displays, not convertor boxes for our TVs. The Engadget article talks about an earlier debut by the same company last year.

Autostereoscopy depends on advanced vertically oriented lenticular screens which present a series of left-right views to multiple viewers.

There was some talk somewhere about lenticular filters that could be applied over small laptop screens, but I'm pretty sure none of that applies to us.

VIP uses active shutter glasses and a signal feed that will work with CRTs capable of 720p.
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post #10097 of 11731
12/23/11 at 2:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddvd View Post

With all the "hell" you went through to get that tv working,a sagging tv top is "easy money" for you to fix it.

Yeah, I mean it's not really that huge of a deal and it's not that bad (maybe a quarter of an inch, no more). In the end, we didn't spend that much money on it, but for a quick recap for the whole thread, here's our rundown:

$18 or $19 in fuel just to get the set
$5 for Lunch at BK on the return trip
~$25 for a pair of convergence ICs shipped from "that expensive store" (MCM)
That's Not to mention my "priceless" labor that I put into it, but seriously, when you add up those numbers, you reach almost $50 in expenses on something we had an almost $0 budget for. Still, $50 and a 48" HDTV in the television room at the house isn't a terrible deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddvd View Post

Tech pundits say that Bluray is the last physical media that will be introduced. I kinda agree with that though there is still alot of life left in physical media.Will they make 4k discs?Perhaps for the upscale niche videophile market, but I see the streaming/download market killing discs in the end, it's just too easy to download,even if the quality is poor.

I was thinking about this myself just the other day. I heard they had released Sony's new handheld, the "Vita" in Japan recently and if I'm not mistaken, they gave up on the "Universal" media disc (UMD) that PSP games came on. I thought to myself that maybe we are headed toward gaming with no physical medium, but then I remembered that the only reason they can do this as well as they can on a portable is because the games just aren't as big. With 50GB BlueRay discs, I don't see how they'll ever be able to pull the "full sized" consoles off of physical media, because if you have games and movies nearing 50GB, that's not something that will be "faster" or "more convenient" than driving to a store and buying the movie or game just because of the sheer size of it and how long that would take to download. I don't know if they have any cheap ultra fast internet breakthroughs in the works, but until they do, I don't personally think that they'll ever be able to take us off of physical discs for stuff like that.

But that's just my personal opinion .

- 2B
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post #10098 of 11731
12/24/11 at 2:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Bunny View Post

I was thinking about this myself just the other day. I heard they had released Sony's new handheld, the "Vita" in Japan recently and if I'm not mistaken, they gave up on the "Universal" media disc (UMD) that PSP games came on. I thought to myself that maybe we are headed toward gaming with no physical medium, but then I remembered that the only reason they can do this as well as they can on a portable is because the games just aren't as big. With 50GB BlueRay discs, I don't see how they'll ever be able to pull the "full sized" consoles off of physical media, because if you have games and movies nearing 50GB, that's not something that will be "faster" or "more convenient" than driving to a store and buying the movie or game just because of the sheer size of it and how long that would take to download. I don't know if they have any cheap ultra fast internet breakthroughs in the works, but until they do, I don't personally think that they'll ever be able to take us off of physical discs for stuff like that.

But that's just my personal opinion .

- 2B

Just a reminder: It wasn't that many years ago when I say in front of a computer, amazed that I had just downloaded an ENTIRE SONG in about 30 minutes. We're talking about about almost 3 MEGABYTES of 128 kbps MP3 glory. Crazy!

Last night I torrented a television episode I had missed. 578mb in about 15 minutes.

Internet pipes are not getting smaller. (bandwidth caps might be a concern, to be sure, but download speeds are only going to go up, regardless)
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post #10099 of 11731
12/24/11 at 3:30am
One word onlive.
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post #10100 of 11731
12/24/11 at 6:26am
Onlive is a joke to any serious gamer.
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post #10101 of 11731
12/24/11 at 10:13am
Thread Starter 
This was posted recently on Yelp! by my bizness partner Janet Mackenzie, revealing a huge vice of www.yelp.com. I mention it here because a recent customer just decided to Yelp! me, and now I finally have 2 TWO of the 6 SIX Yelp! reviews written there about me actually showing! All are 5 star reviews, yet only 2 are showing.



This is one of the reviews that exist there but isn't posted! It's been filtered!

The only way to see the other 4 is to bring up the ones that do show and look for the "filtered" link below them. It looks like this: "(4 Filtered) "




If you reading this would like to help spread the word about this thread and if any of you whom I have personally helped would like to share about it on a venue very far away from here at the AVS, I would really appreciate a Yelp! review, as the more you use Yelp!, the less you get filtered. Go figure...

Anyway, Janet did a wonderful job of revealing this incredible injustice being perpetrated upon unsuspecting small businesses like mine. Thanks so much Janet!



Read on -



Quote:


Oakland, CA

11/7/2011
Yelp explains on its website that it "has an automated filter that suppresses a small portion of reviews - it targets those suspicious ones you see on other sites." Small portion??? If their automated filter were an employee I'd fire it. Then I'd hire PEOPLE to assess the authenticity of customer reviews.

Yelp's automated filter hid 75% of the 5-star reviews about Image Perfection.

As someone who helps Image Perfection out with the administrative facets of its business (oops, I guess my rant will go into the filter), I can say that every one of those reviews were written by real, PAYING customers. I personally spoke with them when they first called about the problems their Home Theater Systems were having. Now happy campers, they are thrilled with how the owner, Bob Jones, saved them THOUSANDS of dollars by not only reviving their dead systems but tweaking them to a point where they deliver as stunning a picture as when they were new.

Bob is known across the country as one of, if not the, most knowledgeable professionals in his area of expertise. If anyone were to search "Mr Bob avs forum", they would find Bob started a thread at http://www.afsforum.com six years ago. This thread is dedicated solely to the repair and optimization of Home Theater Systems. It contains 9,000 posts, including hundreds of testimonials, and it's still going strong. Bob's out-of-town customers (that is, outside of the San Francisco Bay Area) are willing to shell out the extra bucks it takes to fly him to their locale, because they know how satisfied they will once Bob touches their sets.

Yelp's filter does an incredible injustice to Bob and other business owners whose clientele have nothing but good things to say about them. It does a disservice to those who read its reviews as well, because it doesn't give a picture that is accurate enough to help them make a sound decision as to who to call and ultimately buy from.

Image Perfection has prospered for years and will continue to prosper without the "help" of Yelp. Other businesses might not be as bullet proof though, so like a bull in a china shop, Yelp's Automated Filter has the potential to break them.

If you are interested in learning about Yelp's filter check this out: http://www.youtube.com.... Notice they have the Comments feature disabled. I wonder why.
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post #10102 of 11731
12/24/11 at 1:17pm
A few days ago I picked up a pristine Mits WS-73411 with 9" guns that maybe has a few hundred total hours of viewing time on it. It was the guy's third TV in his million-dollar house and was in the den, and he said he hardly ever used it since it was purchased new, so I think it was a pretty awesome deal. He couldn't locate the remote, so I had to order one online, but not a huge deal IMO.

So, I was reading about how some Mits CRTs have coolant leaks, but couldn't locate anything on this model. If I need to be concerned about this, I read that a drip shield can be installed. Anyone have more info on this? Thanks!
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post #10103 of 11731
12/24/11 at 3:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejohnsto View Post

A few days ago I picked up a pristine Mits WS-73411 with 9" guns that maybe has a few hundred total hours of viewing time on it. It was the guy's third TV in his million-dollar house and was in the den, and he said he hardly ever used it since it was purchased new, so I think it was a pretty awesome deal. He couldn't locate the remote, so I had to order one online, but not a huge deal IMO.

So, I was reading about how some Mits CRTs have coolant leaks, but couldn't locate anything on this model. If I need to be concerned about this, I read that a drip shield can be installed. Anyone have more info on this? Thanks!

Congratulations on such a find!
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post #10104 of 11731
12/24/11 at 5:22pm
Any other corners of the house he might have forgotten about?

Enjoy.
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post #10105 of 11731
12/25/11 at 2:20am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejohnsto View Post

A few days ago I picked up a pristine Mits WS-73411 with 9" guns that maybe has a few hundred total hours of viewing time on it. It was the guy's third TV in his million-dollar house and was in the den, and he said he hardly ever used it since it was purchased new, so I think it was a pretty awesome deal. He couldn't locate the remote, so I had to order one online, but not a huge deal IMO.

So, I was reading about how some Mits CRTs have coolant leaks, but couldn't locate anything on this model. If I need to be concerned about this, I read that a drip shield can be installed. Anyone have more info on this? Thanks!

Yes, congrats from me too! A late model 73" Mit with low hours can truly be a wonder to behold once cleaned and fully supertweaked. Shots of mine can be found on page 260 of this very thread.

Get those optics cleaned - be careful, any mistakes and the damage is permanent, contact me directly if you want to be sure and get it done right - and get it calibrated and the overscan taken in. Then you'll have a picture to die for.

There is no easy list of models that have the Mit-designed drip shed - which is actually a drip cup - but yours is around the model years that had it. It's made of plastic and is kind of a trough beneath all 3 of the guns, a single piece that goes the whole distance. If it's not there, rig up some flexible plastic, like from loose leaf binder separators. Use plastic zip ties to hold them in place and place them so they will not allow any dripped coolant to plop onto the board beneath.

b
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post #10106 of 11731
12/26/11 at 12:05pm
From Engadget:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/12/25/l...official-comi/

By the way, Bob, does a 64 point convergence on a Mit need to be done in one session, or can I do it in stages?

Happy Holidays
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post #10107 of 11731
12/26/11 at 11:38pm
Thread Starter 
Stages would be fine. We would just come up with realistic end points to our session each time, and mark our elapsed hours or parts of hours. If either of us can only give it 30 or 40 minutes at a time, we just go with that until the next session.

b
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post #10108 of 11731
12/27/11 at 8:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Stages would be fine. We would just come up with realistic end points to our session each time, and mark our elapsed hours or parts of hours. If either of us can only give it 30 or 40 minutes at a time, we just go with that until the next session.

b

Thanks, Bob. Hope you had a good Holiday.

That "restore the TV to factory default" (including convergence) glares at me like a garish neon sign, but there is a reason we avoid that. I just forgot what that is. Obviously one loses any settings one may have dialed in, but there was some other reason...

A neighbor of mine who is a professional photographer was very impressed with my 65813, but noticed the smallest color fringing indicating the need for convergence (something I knew was needed). He works with high grade monitors all the time, and is display savvy.
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post #10109 of 11731
12/27/11 at 10:39am
Thread Starter 
Or refocusing, if the fringe is all around rather than just on one edge or another.

Just one edge means convergence. All around means focusing.


We don't willingly go back to factory default any more than you would choose to take an untuned Maserati or Lamborhini from off the assembly line without being precisely tuned before delivery to you. By professionals.

Factory default is only for the gravest of emergencies. It is NOT for videophiles! I would never do it to any of my sets unless circs made it absolutely necessary.

An accidental event once happened once on my 65" Panny. I was surfing around the service menu casually when the phone rang, and like an idiot, I did not put the remote down and step away from the set before answering. (Actually you gotta protect your remote, you don't want your cat galloping across it while your back is turned...)

While I was talking I hit a number that made Clear come up, I hit the button, and all of a sudden all improvements I had made to my 1080i were vaporized and I was back at ground zero, far worse than before I had taken delivery.



Also vaporzing all the extensive hours I had spent dialing it in to within a gnat's eyebrow, and setting up the need for a whole new set of hours to begin. AARRGGHH!

I'll never do that again!



b
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post #10110 of 11731
12/27/11 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Or refocusing, if the fringe is all around rather than just on one edge or another.

Just one edge means convergence. All around means focusing...

...Also vaporzing all the extensive hours I had spent dialing it in to within a gnat's eyebrow, and setting up the need for a whole new set of hours to begin. AARRGGHH!

I'll never do that again!



b

!!!!!

Suitably warned!

The fringing is very subtle...I didn't see it until my friend pointed it out. So I'll check it out later.
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