AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Rear Projection Units › Don't dump your CRT RPTV!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Don't dump your CRT RPTV! - Page 342

post #10231 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbahr View Post

I've posted this question elsewhere without a response, so I'll try here!

One of the issues we have to deal with when hanging on to these old RPTV is the lack of HDMI. My set, a Pioneer Elite 510, has component and RGB.

Looks like the sun is setting on component (how ridiculous!).

I see the HDfury is available for converting HDMI to component or RGB. These seem costly at $250-$300. Does the performance justify the cost? Or can a much cheaper converter, say the $80 variety available at amazon (by brainytrade) provide the same performance?

Opinions?

-Mike

I too am an owner of a 510, so I feel your pain. I don't have a comment about the Fury since I don't own it, but I'm curious to know (as I've gone down this thought process myself) what you need the HDMI connection for. I've only just come across my first piece of tech that only will hook up with HDMI, a GoPro Hero 2 camera. Otherwise, as this TV is only capable of 1080i anyway, component is perfect for it. I was looking into the HDMI option because of video games, but that has led me to other conclusions not popular on this particular forum!!
post #10232 of 11731
Thread Starter 
Very limited need. I use mine for upconversion of 480i regular DVD material inside my Bluray player only. For all else I use component.

b
post #10233 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post

I too am an owner of a 510, so I feel your pain. I don't have a comment about the Fury since I don't own it, but I'm curious to know (as I've gone down this thought process myself) what you need the HDMI connection for.

It depends on your equipment. I have a HDFury II and it solved a couple of problems.
  • Audio/video sync was an issue. Sending component video to my 610 and HDMI audio to my Marantz AV7005 pre/pro resulted in audio lagging the video, which cannot be corrected. Sending everything over HDMI fixed the sync.
  • On-screen menus from my 7005 didn't work smoothly. With HDMI in and HDMI out, on-screen menus superimpose nicely on live video.
I personally can't wait to get rid of my 610, but in my current TV room I cannot accommodate a shiny reflective screen, nor do I have the space or desire for front projection. I need either a matte-screen digital TV or a new house. I've been looking for a new big plasma or LCD for years. A new house seems easier to find.
post #10234 of 11731
I am in the same boat as mbahr with my Philips 60PP9352. Just had the flyback (I think) replaced and the coolant changed and the picture is much better but still off a little I think. I got a deal on this tv back when on of my neighbors worked for Philips, I remember him having some boards changed out that upgraded the tuner maybe and that is why I wondered (in another post) if there were parts out there available to upgrade mine. I am also wondering if it would be worth it to have this thing calibrated or even to add something like the hdfury so that I can use newer equipment i.e. bluray, hddvr etc.
post #10235 of 11731
Thread Starter 
If your set has never been calibrated nor the optics cleaned - which is different from the coolant being changed, tho they might have been cleaned at the same time - then you're in for a huge surprise on how good it can actually look. Calibration always improves pix on CRT, usually making sets look better than new out of box.

Check out some of the screenshots in this thread. Start with page 260 and just keep checking them out, keep scrolling till you find the next set. Your set has the capacity for greatness too.

b
post #10236 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

If your set has never been calibrated nor the optics cleaned - which is different from the coolant being changed, tho they might have been cleaned at the same time - then you're in for a huge surprise on how good it can actually look. Calibration always improves pix on CRT, usually making sets look better than new out of box.

Check out some of the screenshots in this thread. Start with page 260 and just keep checking them out, keep scrolling till you find the next set. Your set has the capacity for greatness too.

b

Not exactly sure what all was cleaned, I had a STK replaced about a year ago and then it was either another STK or a flyback that went out. The coolant change was part of their service and they said they re-shot the guns (not quite sure what that is or does), I think (assume) the lenses and mirror were cleaned as part of the process. The picture is so much better after getting the set back but I am noticing some things now that may or may not have been here before. There is a ripple, for lack of a better term, running across the top of the screen about 4 or 5 inches down and now it seems like the picture is overly blue no matter how i adjust the brightness, color and picture. Also when in the convergence screens the bottom right side of the screen the crosshairs will not line up and have ghost images. Is this something that could be corrected with a calibration or do I have some other things going on that need repair?
post #10237 of 11731
Thread Starter 
Overly blue no matter what is typically a grayscale issue, which any good ISF calibration would take care of.

If convergence crosshairs or grids are not lining up properly in one area or another, you gotta suspect one of those ICs is bad. True anytime the response to your convergence commands is followed only in a patchwork fashion, with some sections of the picture not responding. That's always been a bad IC.

We used to re-shoot guns when they were aging and weak, which brought them back fresh and strong. You would have seen a major difference in overall picture light level, esp. on your whites. But sometimes, just once in a great while, there would be damage done internally to the guns we shot, so we never shot them unless absolutely necessary. When necessary the improvements were dazzling, but the occasional mishap inside the gun resulting from that shooting was just not worth the risk.

Could be if you're seeing more blue than you should in the whites, that the blue was highly improved and red and green were not. If any of the 3 were not kept in step with the others, a new grayscale op would be necessitated, tho it most likely would have been necessitated anyway, just from the aging of the phosphors. All colors of phosphor do not age at the same rate. Which is why CRT tech - any tech that uses phosphors, including plasma - needs a grayscale op redone every few years.

The grayscale can be handled by any certified ISF agent, the better the reputation the better the quality of the work done. The rest of the work - about 70% of the total work done in my calibrations, the grayscale is only about 1/3 of the work done in mine - has to be handled by someone heavily experienced triple gun CRT tech, whether it's front projection or rear projection.

b
post #10238 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by bweissman View Post

It depends on your equipment. I have a HDFury II and it solved a couple of problems.

I personally can't wait to get rid of my 610, but in my current TV room I cannot accommodate a shiny reflective screen, nor do I have the space or desire for front projection. I need either a matte-screen digital TV or a new house. I've been looking for a new big plasma or LCD for years. A new house seems easier to find.

Since I bought my receiver and DVD player at the same time as the 510, HDMI has never even been an option! Then the Playstation 3 came into the house 3 years ago and I've been questioning the options ever since. My receiver lost one of the rear channels, so I'm now in the market for that, which has really amped up the issues. Since audio goes through HDMI, I've noticed that along with the elimination of S Vid inputs, optical audio is also down to maybe 2 inputs at the most, and I currently use 4!

You're house comment is too funny, and bleeds a little truth too.
post #10239 of 11731
It seems the heavy blue tint comes into play in dark scenes and around/on things that are black in those same dark scenes. Overall since we got the tv back every thing is brighter and somewhat sharper but no where near the pics you pointed me to in those other posts. WOW!! My picture looks pretty good form 10-12 feet away but when 2-3 feet away is not anywhere near as life like as that. I did get into the service menu and that is really where you notice the misalignment being off, I wonder if it would be beneficial to get one of those kits from tvrepairkits.com and replace both ICs just to get them both on the same page so to speak? And forgive me for the lack of knowledge but what is greyscale op?
post #10240 of 11731
Thread Starter 
DK where the ICs come from in a kit like that - would not want you to be putting in factory seconds, which is what a lot of the inexpensive ones are, like from Electronix. When you pay labor for the replacement of parts or even when you do it yourself, the time/expense of that labor part of it dwarfs any minor parts price differences. So go for the gusto and get first class/top flight Sanyo ICs, like from MCM, Union Electronics or East Coast.

A grayscale op is dialing in the correct color of gray in your b/w images. Like the original Casablanca, in black and white. Which means .312/.329 co-ordinates on the Minolta Chromaticity chart.

Only when your grayscale on your strictly b/w images is the correct color of gray can you have absolute black where you should, and only then can you have the correct colors in your color scenes, once the color decoding is dialed in correctly.

b
post #10241 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post

I too am an owner of a 510, so I feel your pain. I don't have a comment about the Fury since I don't own it, but I'm curious to know (as I've gone down this thought process myself) what you need the HDMI connection for. I've only just come across my first piece of tech that only will hook up with HDMI, a GoPro Hero 2 camera. Otherwise, as this TV is only capable of 1080i anyway, component is perfect for it. I was looking into the HDMI option because of video games, but that has led me to other conclusions not popular on this particular forum!!

I'm thinking about a blueray player. The Oppo-93. The component out on it has some limitations. Better processing on the HDMI. Evidently, bid companies are upset about component, and so have restricted component moving forward because of the ability to copy content. So.... moving forward it looks like HDMI is really the only option. Silly (in my opinion).

What "other conclusions" have you come to?

-Mike
post #10242 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbahr View Post

I'm thinking about a blueray player. The Oppo-93. The component out on it has some limitations. Better processing on the HDMI. Evidently, bid companies are upset about component, and so have restricted component moving forward because of the ability to copy content. So.... moving forward it looks like HDMI is really the only option. Silly (in my opinion).

What "other conclusions" have you come to?

-Mike

My 'conclusion' is that I need a TV that is capable of displaying 720p as well as 1080, as the majority of games are only HD in 720p, so instead I'm always playing the scaled down 480p version. There are a few games completely unplayable to me due to the overscan on the 510 (vital game info is cut off or off screen completely). Lastly, I am very curious to play some of these games in 3D, something Sony is putting into every game they make now. So while I could pay and take care of the overscan, there is nothing I can do about the other 2 things. So that's my conclusion in a nutshell. Now if only I had the funds to make a new TV happen! Especially after seeing some of the CES offerings.
post #10243 of 11731
Thread Starter 
I've got just what you need, tho you may live too far away. My 65" Panny CRT does 720p without even blinking. Last CRT RPTV made to do that, to have both 1080i and 720p native, neither converted or changed in any way. I have heard it can play 3D too, in 720p.

It's fully cleaned, calibrated, overscan reduced, color corrected and ready to go. Would solve all your problems other than the typical HDMI issue, which can be easily solved with an HD Fury.

b
post #10244 of 11731
Thanks for you advice Bob, now I guess I have to go get one of those calibration discs so I can get started. I did find a few codes that get me into the service menus, not quite sure what I am looking at though, I did notice in one of the menus that I have an error message. It is a series of numbers but I don't know if it is a current error or one from the past. I probably need to see about finding some service manuals to decipher what all of these things mean.
Do you have a recommendation on one of the HDFury models or a similar device that would allow me to connect a bluray player through the component or HD15 connections I have available?
post #10245 of 11731
Thread Starter 
Yes, buy a II or get a I from me. The Fury series is what you want for ending up at your set in component or RGB/VGA.

Whatever you do, don't hit the Default register! You'll trigger a self-destruct of all the factory calibration data.

When I got my service manual on one [b]of those Philips machines, that same advice was HAND written on it: Don't hit Default!

I am available for phone coaching if you want some guidance.

b
post #10246 of 11731
Got a Mitsubishi WS-65819 (65") off of Freecycle!

It had clearly been well-taken-care-of. The case was in excellent condition and showed essentially no wear.

It's... not as pristine now. Not after a pickup-truck ride to my house, and the one-inch-too-tight turn to get it onto the basement stairs that mandated removing the front screen. That left some scratches and marks on it.

But I gently cleaned the lenses and the mirror while I had the screen off, and let it warm up from sitting in the garage for several days. (Had to round up a crew to help me move this 300+ lb beast.)

A few hours later, it fired up just fine, and looked pretty good showing SD and HD material after the basic convergence. No sign of ghosting, colors didn't seem washed out.

I did the 'advanced convergence' last night; the blue and definitely the red needed some tweaking, especially at the edges. But it's looking rather nice now. I've got a WD TV Live Plus HD on order so the kids can watch their Netflix in HD on it. I'm still amazed such a thing could be gotten for free. On the other hand, shipping would be about as much as a cheap flat-panel these days...
post #10247 of 11731
post #10248 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by wackedtv View Post

It seems the heavy blue tint comes into play in dark scenes and around/on things that are black in those same dark scenes. Overall since we got the tv back every thing is brighter and somewhat sharper but no where near the pics you pointed me to in those other posts. WOW!! My picture looks pretty good form 10-12 feet away but when 2-3 feet away is not anywhere near as life like as that. I did get into the service menu and that is really where you notice the misalignment being off, I wonder if it would be beneficial to get one of those kits from tvrepairkits.com and replace both ICs just to get them both on the same page so to speak? And forgive me for the lack of knowledge but what is greyscale op?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

DK where the ICs come from in a kit like that - would not want you to be putting in factory seconds, which is what a lot of the inexpensive ones are, like from Electronix. When you pay labor for the replacement of parts or even when you do it yourself, the time/expense of that labor part of it dwarfs any minor parts price differences. So go for the gusto and get first class/top flight Sanyo ICs, like from MCM, Union Electronics or East Coast.

b

I'd recommend the ones from MCM - they're the "good stuff" and relatively inexpensive if your set supports the 180s. (Our WS-48311 had 110s stock, but it'll take the 180s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

This looks nice:
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst...810327664.html

That's still pretty steep in price... Nice find though.

- 2B
post #10249 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Bunny View Post



That's still pretty steep in price... Nice find though.

- 2B

Not a lot for that TV, particularly in excellent shape, in my opinion. 9 inch tubes, a good DVI port, and advanced calibration potential. They're rare in the market.
post #10250 of 11731
65813

The guy says "make me a reasonable offer" AND will deliver for a small fee,seems like it could be a very good deal for the right person.
post #10251 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddvd View Post

65813

The guy says "make me a reasonable offer" AND will deliver for a small fee,seems like it could be a very good deal for the right person.

It's a great deal. I paid more for mine and have no regrets.

The 9 inch tubes have a lot of punch.
post #10252 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post


It's a great deal. I paid more for mine and have no regrets.

The 9 inch tubes have a lot of punch.

Are they really worth that much more?

- 2B
post #10253 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Bunny View Post

Are they really worth that much more?

- 2B

In my opinion, yes. The 65813 that I have, even though it needs optimization and cleaning, is bright, sharp to the edges, and has this quality of punch. That's why when I went to look a second time at the Elite, I didn't feel the Mits was in any way less in image quality, and it was easier on the eyes.

I looked at a number of RPTV sets before finding this one. And, I'd been looking at fixed pixel sets for awhile. Nobody that sees this set has any idea that it's from 2004, in terms of image quality. Some think it's a plasma. Humorously, one person that saw it wanted to know what the screen was sitting on. It's "sitting on" the TV!

And, as I've mentioned before, the fellow that owned it before took really good care of it, thankfully. The one I linked to (only the second one I've found in the LA area in eight or nine months) seems to have received similar treatment, although you never know until you see it, armed with a 100% color test DVD.

I once went to see a 73 inch that, in person, looked nothing like the glowing description in Craigslist. It was in the home of a very well to do fellow, but the image was like looking down a dingy subway tunnel. He put on Braveheart, and I wondered, why did they shoot the whole film at night? I'm sure the kids got lots of good cartoon watching out of it.
post #10254 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post


In my opinion, yes. The 65813 that I have, even though it needs optimization and cleaning, is bright, sharp to the edges, and has this quality of punch. That's why when I went to look a second time at the Elite, I didn't feel the Mits was in any way less in image quality, and it was easier on the eyes.

I looked at a number of RPTV sets before finding this one. And, I'd been looking at fixed pixel sets for awhile. Nobody that sees this set has any idea that it's from 2004, in terms of image quality. Some think it's a plasma. Humorously, one person that saw it wanted to know what the screen was sitting on. It's "sitting on" the TV!

And, as I've mentioned before, the fellow that owned it before took really good care of it, thankfully. The one I linked to (only the second one I've found in the LA area in eight or nine months) seems to have received similar treatment, although you never know until you see it, armed with a 100% color test DVD.

I once went to see a 73 inch that, in person, looked nothing like the glowing description in Craigslist. It was in the home of a very well to do fellow, but the image was like looking down a dingy subway tunnel. He put on Braveheart, and I wondered, why did they shoot the whole film at night? I'm sure the kids got lots of good cartoon watching out of it.

Interesting. I wish there was a way to find out how many hours it has. Our 48311 was pretty busted when we got it even though the free CL listing said "working" (ours was the first interest it received too). The story was that his friends drove to his house to visit, and he asked them what was in the back of their car. They told him it was a television set that they were getting ready to dump, so he asked them if it worked, and they told him that it did, so he said that he'd take it and give it away on Craiglist.

We didn't get a good look at it until we unloaded it into our garage, when we found that (since the plastic screen protector/"diamondshield" had been removed) the screen was cut and stained in multiple spots and someone had managed to jam a quarter into it. The convergence ICs were also shot.

In the end, I was able to remove the screen temporarily to "shake" the quarter out, and with the help of AVSForum, I got some ICs to solder in. Now we've got a pretty decent working 48" HDTV in the Television room, and all we've got to do now is put that computer in there to use as an HD tuner.

It's funny how a lot of us in the thread have interesting stories behind our CRT Rear projection sets.

- 2B
post #10255 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Bunny View Post

Interesting. I wish there was a way to find out how many hours it has. Our 48311 was pretty busted when we got it even though the free CL listing said "working" (ours was the first interest it received too). The story was that his friends drove to his house to visit, and he asked them what was in the back of their car. They told him it was a television set that they were getting ready to dump, so he asked them if it worked, and they told him that it did, so he said that he'd take it and give it away on Craiglist.

We didn't get a good look at it until we unloaded it into our garage, when we found that (since the plastic screen protector/"diamondshield" had been removed) the screen was cut and stained in multiple spots and someone had managed to jam a quarter into it. The convergence ICs were also shot.

In the end, I was able to remove the screen temporarily to "shake" the quarter out, and with the help of AVSForum, I got some ICs to solder in. Now we've got a pretty decent working 48" HDTV in the Television room, and all we've got to do now is put that computer in there to use as an HD tuner.

It's funny how a lot of us in the thread have interesting stories behind our CRT Rear projection sets.

- 2B

Well, your epic story has to be the amount of hard, skilled work you did to resuscitate your set!

I think the interesting stories emanate out of the individualistic personalities inhabiting this off road thread. People that have them, people that like them, people that work on them...all off the beaten path.
post #10256 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

... People that have them, people that like them, people that work on them...all off the beaten path.

I belong to this group...

Very proudly indeed!!!
post #10257 of 11731
post #10258 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

I once went to see a 73 inch that, in person, looked nothing like the glowing description in Craigslist. It was in the home of a very well to do fellow, but the image was like looking down a dingy subway tunnel. He put on Braveheart, and I wondered, why did they shoot the whole film at night? I'm sure the kids got lots of good cartoon watching out of it.

I live in Central Oregon, 100+ miles from the "big cities". So finding a 73" CRT tv could be considered impossible. I searched for over 2 years in the entire Northwest area for the Holy Grail of CRT's until one finally showed up in my town. The guy had got it out of a local bar who gave it to him because the capacitors went bad. I paid $525 delivered sight unseen. Surprisingly it had an amazing picture(still does) with no perceptible burn in from it's use as a bar tv. The only downside was they put shelf brackets on top of the tv so they drilled about 20 holes in the top of the tv. I drive a truck over the road so the TV gets little use these days but I am still amazed at the picture every time I come home. I still check CR for another 73" CRT (curiosity and I guess I'm CRT greedy) but they just don't show up anymore. Mr. Bob is right when he says snap them up before they are gone, because especially with these 73" beasts they are impossible to find.
post #10259 of 11731
Thread Starter 
Maybe that's because people who paid lots of $ for both the 9" guns and their incredible size - their own private Imax - have decided that offing them in the nearest landfill would be an insult to their decision to buy them in the first place because they are such awesome sets, and are keeping them till they drop?

(hope so!)



b
post #10260 of 11731
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

Not a lot for that TV, particularly in excellent shape, in my opinion. 9 inch tubes, a good DVI port, and advanced calibration potential. They're rare in the market.

Yes, I've heard the Mit DVI port is magnificent, and they really lost it when they designed their mulchy HDMI port later, like the one on mine that I will never use.

b
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Rear Projection Units
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Rear Projection Units › Don't dump your CRT RPTV!