AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Rear Projection Units › Don't dump your CRT RPTV!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Don't dump your CRT RPTV! - Page 348

post #10411 of 11761
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Bunny View Post

They have 480i only DVDs?
- 2B

All regular format DVDs are recorded in 480i, and were always meant to play in 480i. They only appear as 480p after transcoding, which takes place these days inside the DVD player itself before ever leaving the player. Same with upconverting to 1080i, the upconversion happens best inside the digital domain before it ever leaves the player, and all Bluray players currently available upconvert the regular DVD 480i to 1080i if you wish, you just have to tell it to do that in the player's menu, as to what's the highest scanrate you will want your content to be playing in, whether it comes from 480i DVDs or 1080i/p bluray discs. Which for our sets will be 1080i, not 1080p.

Only catch is, the UPconversion to 1080i from 480i has to leave the player as HDMI. Not component, which is limited to 480p on upconversions from regular DVDs.

In yesteryear, you had to have a DVDO or Faroudja or whatever other scaler, to upconvert the 480i to 480p. And to 1080i. These days all you need is the conversion from HDMI to component, which is what works best in our sets.

b
post #10412 of 11761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post


All regular format DVDs are recorded in 480i, and were always meant to play in 480i. They only appear as 480p after transcoding, which takes place these days inside the DVD player itself before ever leaving the player. Same with upconverting to 1080i, the upconversion happens best inside the digital domain before it ever leaves the player, and all Bluray players currently available upconvert the regular DVD 480i to 1080i if you wish, you just have to tell it to do that in the player's menu, as to what's the highest scanrate you will want your content to be playing in, whether it comes from 480i DVDs or 1080i/p bluray discs. Which for our sets will be 1080i, not 1080p.

Only catch is, the UPconversion to 1080i from 480i has to leave the player as HDMI. Not component, which is limited to 480p on upconversions from regular DVDs.

In yesteryear, you had to have a DVDO or Faroudja or whatever other scaler, to upconvert the 480i to 480p. And to 1080i. These days all you need is the conversion from HDMI to component, which is what works best in our sets.

b

So any native 480p video will look better than anything the DVD player "dispenses"?

- 2B
post #10413 of 11761
Thread Starter 
Where you gonna get a native 480p disc? They don't make 'em.

You can get 480p from a sat or cable feed. That 480p will probably be better than anything that is synthesized from 480i, no matter what the transcoder.

But since the same STBs will deliver completely lossless pixel for pixel 1080i from 1080i native sources, why bother?

b
post #10414 of 11761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Where you gonna get a native 480p disc? They don't make 'em.

You can get 480p from a sat or cable feed. That 480p will probably be better than anything that is synthesized from 480i, no matter what the transcoder.

But since the same STBs will deliver completely lossless pixel for pixel 1080i from 1080i native sources, why bother?

b

So when you download a "DVDRip", the file is just one that was "uninterlaced"?

- 2B
post #10415 of 11761
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Bunny View Post

For this reason, I have no plan to get a BlueRay player.

This is actually a little disconcerting for gamers too perhaps. The next generation is still a ways out, but even Sony's PlayStation 3 restricts the HD output of the component cables. It isn't too significant, but it is a "first step in the wrong" direction if you ask me.

- 2B

Wait, I'm just catching up here.

You're deliberately passing on the loveliness that is blu-ray content because of something that might happen someday? (Even if the answer is "probably will happen" there's a massive catalog of BR discs TODAY that this future maybe situation does not apply to at all.)

Does ALL of your HD content from from low bitrate streaming and satellite/cable feeds? If so, you're really missing out.
post #10416 of 11761
Thread Starter 
Oh yeah.

And there are kickass deals on bluray discs, if you get yourself on the right lists. There were used BRs at a local Blockbuster the other day, 5 bluray movies for $20. Inception was one of them. And used is exactly as good as new, with digital discs.

My faves are www.deepdiscount.com, www.dealextreme.com (tho this may be only for devices/toys and not blurays...), www.inetvideo.com, (here's the latest - http://app.bronto.com/public/?q=prev....T0MWwA.Bt4IeA).

Bluray is still the nth degree of uncompromised movie playing, with the least compression of all consumer formats that I know of. These places also had incredible deals on HD DVD, back when they needed to clear out their inventory because of losing the format war.

b
post #10417 of 11761
Thread Starter 
Just ran across this post from a 2008 thread specifically about convergence on our sets. I later went to a full 3" of shimming, so this is not what I currently watch today. It's not fresh, but works for occasional recreational viewing...!





Here's some eye candy from a well converged set - mine -

Just finished adding another shim to my CRT array, a la (thanks!) Owen, for a total of 2.25" - 3 shims of 3/4" each, 4 of them - to my 73" Mit. I added a spot of white glue between the shims and under them, for stability. This makes half again the amount of shimmage I had before today, with just 2 shim thicknesses each x4, for 1.5" of shimmage for the last few months -

Took this opportunity to reclean the lens tops, it had been a year or so since last time, made a noticeable difference. Mit's HDreadys don't need the deeper optics cleaning, they don't allow an air gap between the lenses and the coolant covers, like the Elites do.

I think my shots are being compromised by being in jpeg, which I have heard reduces the res automatically. I checked my cam and can't find any way to redo any of that inside the cam, so it must by the automatic Windows uploading from my cam. Any input welcome on that. Kodak Z712 IS.

After redoing the focus, geometry and convergence - grayscale and colorations stayed the same as before, basically all by eye on the colorations - here's the results -



[/url]

Slightly overexposed, but appropriate to the brilliance of the runway
[/url]

[/url]

Hard to get the crowd shadow details and still have the diamond sparkle without it white crushing out on my cam. The display shows both just fine.
[/url]

[/url]

Slight movement blur on this one, mostly on her outfit. But check out those abs!
[/url]

Blur on this one only on her right shoe and at the top of her rack (no not that one, the one she's WEARING...!)
[/url]
post #10418 of 11761
Thread Starter 
Another one from the same page, back in 2009 when Jack was king. I really like my video to be up in my face -

[/url]

[/url]

[/url]

[/url]
post #10419 of 11761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalani View Post


Wait, I'm just catching up here.

You're deliberately passing on the loveliness that is blu-ray content because of something that might happen someday? (Even if the answer is "probably will happen" there's a massive catalog of BR discs TODAY that this future maybe situation does not apply to at all.)

Does ALL of your HD content from from low bitrate streaming and satellite/cable feeds? If so, you're really missing out.

I think you misunderstood. I was just making a point that Sony is taking a minor first step in the wrong direction. I know that most (if not all) CRT RPs are incapable of 1080p, it's just that it's one of those "pre earthquake" things where a different problem could affect us in the future.

Regarding my "green" library, my HD content actually comes from high bitrate QAM cable or acquired from minimally compressed video sources that look as good as BlueRay.

- 2B
post #10420 of 11761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Bluray is still the nth degree of uncompromised movie playing, with the least compression of all consumer formats that I know of. These places also had incredible deals on HD DVD, back when they needed to clear out their inventory because of losing the format war.

b

As of early last year, I could still walk into the Sacramento Fry's and find a decent selection of HD DVDs in the $3-5 price range.
post #10421 of 11761
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Bunny View Post

I think you misunderstood. I was just making a point that Sony is taking a minor first step in the wrong direction. I know that most (if not all) CRT RPs are incapable of 1080p, it's just that it's one of those "pre earthquake" things where a different problem could affect us in the future.

Regarding my "green" library, my HD content actually comes from high bitrate QAM cable or acquired from minimally compressed video sources that look as good as BlueRay.

I agree with your point about things going in the wrong direction with all the useless anti-piracy stuff.

But you're fooling yourself if you think QAM cable or "minimally compressed video sources" (other than straight BR rips, of course) are "as good as blu ray". They are demonstrably NOT as good. Close? Perhaps, at times. Good enough for you? Clearly. But it really is an indisputable fact that blu ray has the best quality content available to the general public today, period.
post #10422 of 11761
Thread Starter 
Absolutely. Most true to the original - whether it's film or digital based - and least compressed playback out there, available to the general public. Same for HD DVD, for what content you can still find.

I would not be surprised if you could find entire libraries of used movies in these 2 digital HD formats out there on the used market, like ebay and craigslist. Which, being digital and nothing but ones and zeros, would playback as if they were brand new, each and every time no matter how "old" they actually are. Age and endless copying/transcribing cycles mean nothing to digital. Always brand new fidelity, every time.

b
post #10423 of 11761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalani View Post


I agree with your point about things going in the wrong direction with all the useless anti-piracy stuff.

But you're fooling yourself if you think QAM cable or "minimally compressed video sources" (other than straight BR rips, of course) are "as good as blu ray". They are demonstrably NOT as good. Close? Perhaps, at times. Good enough for you? Clearly. But it really is an indisputable fact that blu ray has the best quality content available to the general public today, period.

True. But in 720p QAM versus 720p BlueRay rip, the difference isn't huge. It's there, but to the untrained eye it's not like going from 480i to 480p or anything like that.

- 2B
post #10424 of 11761
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Bunny View Post

True. But in 720p QAM versus 720p BlueRay rip, the difference isn't huge. It's there, but to the untrained eye it's not like going from 480i to 480p or anything like that.

- 2B

Blu ray rips should be 1080p, unless you're transcoding, which brings in a whole new level of compression, artifacting, and overall quality reduction.

Either way, you're missing out. Unless your TV is only 720p? In this forum, however, I'd think you're 1080i, which is a much less messy translation from 1080p than 720p is.

No matter how you shake it, BR is the best quality, period. Doesn't take a trained eye to see the difference, either, unless you sitting absurdly far from your TV.
post #10425 of 11761
Thread Starter 
Absolutely.

If you can't readily see the difference between 720p and 1080i on our TVs from a relatively close-up distance that shows off how big your set is and is still ultra crisp, it has not been correctly set up and dialed in.

b
post #10426 of 11761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Absolutely.

If you can't readily see the difference between 720p and 1080i on our TVs from a relatively close-up distance that shows off how big your set is and is still ultra crisp, it has not been correctly set up and dialed in.

b

Honestly on ours, scaled to 1080i, 720p looks nearly identical to 1080i as far as live HDTV is concerned. Our set isn't calibrated professionally though, and could've been used heavily in torch mode before we got it.

- 2B
post #10427 of 11761
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Bunny View Post

Honestly on ours, scaled to 1080i, 720p looks nearly identical to 1080i as far as live HDTV is concerned. Our set isn't calibrated professionally though, and could've been used heavily in torch mode before we got it.

- 2B

Live HDTV is a much lower bitrate than Blu-ray, especially from cable or satellite. OTA 1080i is quite good, and quite a bit better, but still a lower quality feed than BR offers.

There isn't much difference between 720p and 1080i to begin with.

There is no broadcast 1080p (except for a few bandwidth-starved satellite stations, I believe).

Any way you shake it, you're experience less than you could be, compared to a full 1080p blu ray. Not to mention the uncompressed audio, aside from PQ differences.

Not saying the difference it MASSIVE, or that you would even care, but don't kid yourself (or others) that what you're looking at is "just as good", because it's not. Just as good... for your purposes, perhaps, but not actually "just as good" from a factual standpoint.
post #10428 of 11761
Get some samples from here and see what you think:
http://www.demo-world.eu/trailers/hi...n-trailers.php
post #10429 of 11761
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalani View Post

Live HDTV is a much lower bitrate than Blu-ray, especially from cable or satellite. OTA 1080i is quite good, and quite a bit better, but still a lower quality feed than BR offers.

There isn't much difference between 720p and 1080i to begin with.

There is no broadcast 1080p (except for a few bandwidth-starved satellite stations, I believe).

Any way you shake it, you're experience less than you could be, compared to a full 1080p blu ray. Not to mention the uncompressed audio, aside from PQ differences.

Not saying the difference it MASSIVE, or that you would even care, but don't kid yourself (or others) that what you're looking at is "just as good", because it's not. Just as good... for your purposes, perhaps, but not actually "just as good" from a factual standpoint.

My 65" Panny does both 1080i and 720p native, and the 720p on it has noticeably more edge enhancement than the pure, sleek 1080i. That said, Alias was fantastic, and so was 24. Go figure...

b
post #10430 of 11761
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Get some samples from here and see what you think:
http://www.demo-world.eu/trailers/hi...n-trailers.php

Better yet (I think) get some reference material form the link below and see what you think (which includes some of the clips from demo-world):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1391873

post #10431 of 11761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

My 65" Panny does both 1080i and 720p native, and the 720p on it has noticeably more edge enhancement than the pure, sleek 1080i. That said, Alias was fantastic, and so was 24. Go figure...

b

LOST was another nice looking HD show on ABC in 720p like ALIAS. FRINGE is a currently nice looking 720p show on FOX.

Watch both series again on BD.

Fantastic can be improved upon.
post #10432 of 11761
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Get some samples from here and see what you think:
http://www.demo-world.eu/trailers/hi...n-trailers.php

Cool link, I'm clearly going to have to spend some time at this site.
post #10433 of 11761
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwebb1970 View Post


LOST was another nice looking HD show on ABC in 720p like ALIAS. FRINGE is a currently nice looking 720p show on FOX.

Watch both series again on BD.

Fantastic can be improved upon.

Fringe for the win! I sometimes download the lates episode from "The Walking Dead" too (although I watch a halfway decent internet stream of it live). Fringe and TWD are the only two television shows I make sure to see live every week.

- 2B
post #10434 of 11761
Thread Starter 
How do I check out TWD? I am on Dish.

b
post #10435 of 11761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalani View Post

Live HDTV is a much lower bitrate than Blu-ray, especially from cable or satellite. OTA 1080i is quite good, and quite a bit better, but still a lower quality feed than BR offers.

There isn't much difference between 720p and 1080i to begin with.

There is no broadcast 1080p (except for a few bandwidth-starved satellite stations, I believe).

Any way you shake it, you're experience less than you could be, compared to a full 1080p blu ray. Not to mention the uncompressed audio, aside from PQ differences.

Not saying the difference it MASSIVE, or that you would even care, but don't kid yourself (or others) that what you're looking at is "just as good", because it's not. Just as good... for your purposes, perhaps, but not actually "just as good" from a factual standpoint.

No much difference between 720P and
1080i but there is between 1080i and 1080P ?

No discernable differences between 1080i and 1080p that can be seen with the naked eye. Most can't hear any difference between dolby 5.1 and dolby hd uncompressed. Component versus HDMI..........same deal.

Be real. Have done side by side comparisons and just because it is new and supposedly better it isn't always that way. Have both rear projection and lcd sets in my house as well. If you can't see it or hear the difference ...what you basically got is braggin rights and many will say they see a difference to justify their money spent.
post #10436 of 11761
Thread Starter 
I agree for the most part, but no, not no discernable differences. Just negligible ones, that are usually very few and far between.

Such as flashbulbs, and pyrotechnics at concerts. These confuse the heck out of 1080i and cause it to go into pixellation. Have not tested, but I don't think that happens on 1080p.

b
post #10437 of 11761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

How do I check out TWD? I am on Dish.

b

If your subscription doesn't include AMC, people put up some pretty good streams of it on this website called Justin.TV. Either that or get it in HD later on ThePirateBay.org or Torrentz.eu.

- 2B
post #10438 of 11761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetmeck View Post

No much difference between 720P and
1080i but there is between 1080i and 1080P ?

No discernable differences between 1080i and 1080p that can be seen with the naked eye. Most can't hear any difference between dolby 5.1 and dolby hd uncompressed. Component versus HDMI..........same deal.

Be real. Have done side by side comparisons and just because it is new and supposedly better it isn't always that way. Have both rear projection and lcd sets in my house as well. If you can't see it or hear the difference ...what you basically got is braggin rights and many will say they see a difference to justify their money spent.

I think you should re-read what I wrote, and consider the point I was making. I wasn't commenting on any significant difference between 1080i and 1080p. I was commenting on the difference between bit-starved broadcast content (OTA, cable, satellite) compared to Blu-ray, which has a much higher bitrate, even if you ignore the resolution difference. (although the resolution difference comparing 720p to 1080i/p IS visible on a 65" screen)

And again, the discussion was about being the BEST POSSIBLE picture, not merely one that suffices, so those little differences DO count, when that is the goal. One cannot (accurately) claim to have a picture that is 100% "as good" as blu ray when it's quite simply... not.
post #10439 of 11761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

How do I check out TWD? I am on Dish.

b

You could buy it for $17.

http://www.georgiogifts.com/The-Walk...One_p_780.html
post #10440 of 11761
Thread Starter 
I just looked at the trailer. It's a zombie series. Not really into that. Why again would I want to see one of these shows?

b
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Rear Projection Units
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Rear Projection Units › Don't dump your CRT RPTV!