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Don't dump your CRT RPTV! - Page 351

post #10501 of 11733
3/5/12 at 5:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnj314159 View Post

I am VERY happy with my Craig Rounds-calibrated 65813. It is just a great set. I hope someone can give it a good home (the one for sale in Atlanta, that is).

It's an amazing set. Sharp, deep blacks, rich colors, and very bright. I've gotten used to dialing back my contrast and brightness.
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post #10502 of 11733
3/6/12 at 8:49am
Bob-
Thanks for the information. I am glad to hear that there may still be hope. In general, is there usually a master contrast setting/adjustment in the rear of the set along with the other adjustments? I do not have an "on screen" contrast adjustment, only "brightness" which I set in the middle of the range.

On another note - how often to people electrocute themselves working on these things?

KF
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post #10503 of 11733
3/6/12 at 1:11pm
I'm on the north shore of MA. I know Barrelbelly is in Stow. Anyone else that wants Mr. Bob to work on their RPTV? Let's get together to make the trip worthwhile and try to get him up here by the time the forsythias bloom.

bk
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post #10504 of 11733
3/6/12 at 7:34pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt Franz View Post

Bob-
Thanks for the information. I am glad to hear that there may still be hope. In general, is there usually a master contrast setting/adjustment in the rear of the set along with the other adjustments? I do not have an "on screen" contrast adjustment, only "brightness" which I set in the middle of the range.

On another note - how often to people electrocute themselves working on these things?

KF

No, but that's another good reason to have an experienced pro's voice in your ear anytime you go in there.

What kind of set do you have? I have never heard of there not being a master contrast control on any of these babies. It's always electronic these days, tho, I usually don't see any mechanical means for contrast control. Never on HDreadys, anyway -

b
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post #10505 of 11733
3/6/12 at 7:41pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

It's an amazing set. Sharp, deep blacks, rich colors, and very bright. I've gotten used to dialing back my contrast and brightness.

Yeah, the WS 65813 and WS 65815 are both brighter than mine, for 2 very good reasons:

First, they are smaller screens for the same sized 9" guns. That means more concentrated light level from the pic itself because there is more of it, relatively speaking - the same size pics are being concentrated onto a 65" screen, smaller than my 73" but with the same sized guns. How much brighter? By a factor of 9/7. Your screens are 1.29x brighter than mine.

Two, they have true glass front surface mirrors. Mine has mylar, a stretched reflective film. That presents a 25% difference in light levels right there.

So youse guys have much brighter images than I do! What's wrong with this picture???



b
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post #10506 of 11733
3/6/12 at 11:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Yeah, the WS 65813 and WS 65815 are both brighter than mine, for 2 very good reasons:

First, they are smaller screens for the same sized 9" guns. That means more concentrated light level from the pic itself because there is more of it, relatively speaking - the same size pics are being concentrated onto a 65" screen, smaller than my 73" but with the same sized guns. How much brighter? By a factor of 9/7. Your screens are 1.29x brighter than mine.

Two, they have true glass front surface mirrors. Mine has mylar, a stretched reflective film. That presents a 25% difference in light levels right there.

So youse guys have much brighter images than I do! What's wrong with this picture???



b

Nuttin's wrong, and I ain't complainin'.

On da udder hand, you can do da 3D thing on your Panny....if you wuz so inclined.
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post #10507 of 11733
3/7/12 at 8:59am
Thread Starter 
That's what I have heard. How do you do that with a set that was never designed for it? I have seen an outboard box at the Curt Palme site that is supposed to be able to equip 3D ready sets for 3D. Is that what I need to do? Are there any other options as well?

b
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post #10508 of 11733
3/7/12 at 9:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

That's what I have heard. How do you do that with a set that was never designed for it? I have seen an outboard box at the Curt Palme site that is supposed to be able to equip 3D ready sets for 3D. Is that what I need to do? Are there any other options as well?

b

Apparently you need a 720P capable set for it to work. Given that it works using active shutter I'd imagine the box is a signal generator that sends alternating, 30hz images to the display, synced with RF controlled shutter glasses.

Now the set's 60 hz limit is below today's 120 hz (and 240 hz) sets, which would possibly induce more flicker, but the fellow who owns VIP says the result with 60 hz CRTs is pretty good.

Just an interesting possibility for your Panasonic!

By the way, why are soaked paper towels better for optics cleaning than microfiber cloths?

VIP
Jonathan Alexander
4521 PGA Blvd.
#338 Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33418 USA
info@3d-vip.com

By the way, I watched Warren Beatty's Dick Tracy last night on cable...a film with amazing colors, all primary colors to evoke the old comic strip days. It's absolutely astounding to watch on the 65813's cathodes. The purity of the color is crazy.
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post #10509 of 11733
3/7/12 at 4:45pm
OK, I'm feeling uninformed (dumb!) here, so please help me out. I was thinking of getting a Cary 11V video processor, which claims to convert any video input to any video output. So, I was thinking this would be nice for converting hdmi to component. Let me know why this would or would not work for inputting 1080i from a blu ray player or satellite receiver via hdmi and sending the output to its component output at 1080i.

Thanks, Dave
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post #10510 of 11733
3/7/12 at 5:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thezaks View Post

OK, I'm feeling uninformed (dumb!) here, so please help me out. I was thinking of getting a Cary 11V video processor, which claims to convert any video input to any video output. So, I was thinking this would be nice for converting hdmi to component. Let me know why this would or would not work for inputting 1080i from a blu ray player or satellite receiver via hdmi and sending the output to its component output at 1080i.

Thanks, Dave

It appears to be capable of many things...scaling, color processing, even line doubling...and it can output it to HDMI or component, but it doesn't appear to be capable of taking an HDMI signal and converting/delivering it to component, which is what HDFury and the Moome device are designed to do.

But Bob will likely give you a definitive answer.
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post #10511 of 11733
3/7/12 at 9:16pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post


By the way, why are soaked paper towels better for optics cleaning than microfiber cloths?

I don't advise either. Both/either would leave behind a high degree of residue to evaporate, which would wind up getting in the way of crystal clear viewing. Neither is absorptive in the least.

b
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post #10512 of 11733
3/7/12 at 9:47pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

It appears to be capable of many things...scaling, color processing, even line doubling...and it can output it to HDMI or component, but it doesn't appear to be capable of taking an HDMI signal and converting/delivering it to component, which is what HDFury and the Moome device are designed to do.

But Bob will likely give you a definitive answer.

I am not really up on this machine, but at first glance it looks stellar. Lots of time has to be taken boning up on something like this to give out an informed opinion, and I just don't have that kind of time right now.

b
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post #10513 of 11733
3/8/12 at 4:12am
Hi Guys i'm new to this forum and not sure where to post this problem but its about an old sharp aquos lc30hv4u. i've been trying to work out whether i can extend the original lcd to avc cables?.......there are 2 cables and the manual doesn't tell you what they are, one is def a dvi-d cable but dont know what the other is????......

sorry if this is in the wrong area but i'm a noob. lol
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post #10514 of 11733
3/8/12 at 4:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

That's what I have heard. How do you do that with a set that was never designed for it? I have seen an outboard box at the Curt Palme site that is supposed to be able to equip 3D ready sets for 3D. Is that what I need to do? Are there any other options as well?

b

Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about it, you aren't missing much. I got a chance to play with the Nintendo 3DS and 3D HTC Evo, and it was impressive, but nothing I'd want to look at for any length of time.

- 2B
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post #10515 of 11733
3/8/12 at 9:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Bunny View Post

Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about it, you aren't missing much. I got a chance to play with the Nintendo 3DS and 3D HTC Evo, and it was impressive, but nothing I'd want to look at for any length of time.

- 2B

There is a huge difference in 3D effect between a small portable, small screen device and a large panel. Huge. It's an apples to lentils comparison.
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post #10516 of 11733
3/8/12 at 9:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

I don't advise either. Both/either would leave behind a high degree of residue to evaporate, which would wind up getting in the way of crystal clear viewing. Neither is absorptive in the least.

b

For some reason I got it into my head that you used soaked paper towels...soaked with Sprayway. I'm glad that you don't use paper towels (even soaked), as I imagined they would be abrasive, in addition to leaving behind residue.

What do you use?

Thanks
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post #10517 of 11733
3/8/12 at 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

There is a huge difference in 3D effect between a small portable, small screen device and a large panel. Huge. It's an apples to lentils comparison.

Agreed. Hugo in 3D on a Panasonic 65" plasma is quite impressive.
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post #10518 of 11733
3/8/12 at 10:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

It appears to be capable of many things...scaling, color processing, even line doubling...and it can output it to HDMI or component, but it doesn't appear to be capable of taking an HDMI signal and converting/delivering it to component, which is what HDFury and the Moome device are designed to do.

But Bob will likely give you a definitive answer.

Hi,

I've tried a HDFury, but the picture had artifacts, and I preferred my component output. I was thinking this might be a high quality device that would do the job a little better.

Regarding HDCP, is the problem that receivers and video processors used to be able to input HDMI video and output to component, and now they can't because of HDCP, OR, have they never been able to do it, thus requiring a device like the HDFury or Moome. I had thought that the problem was getting 1080i out of a component connection, when using HDMI - I thought HDCP was forcing it to be 480p or 480i coming out of the component connection. Please straighten me out on this, if any of you have any idea.

Thanks, Dave
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post #10519 of 11733
3/8/12 at 10:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalani View Post

Agreed. Hugo in 3D on a Panasonic 65" plasma is quite impressive.

Sounds like you got your new TV.

3D depends on parallax, or the difference between the left and right eye views. On a small, hand-held screen, even if the device is presenting both views using a lenticular, glasses-less design, the parallax effect is minimal on the small screen.

Hugo and Avatar, by the way, were filmed in genuine (not digitally upconverted) 3D, and the effects were impressive. The opening scene, when the camera flies into the station, is really amazing. The best use of 3D is to create an immersive atmosphere, into which the viewer is drawn, rather than the creation of a spectacle where objects apparently fly into the audience, although occasionally the latter is fun.

Unfortunately, John Carter was shot in 2D , and upconverted.

On the other hand, upconversions can work well if done carefully and lovingly. One of the most amazing examples of this was in Hugo, when Scorsese upconverted the Lumiere Brothers train arriving in the station clip. When people first saw this early use of cinema, they were genuinely frightened to see the train coming towards them on the screen, as this cinematic recreation was a completely new experience. When Scorsese chose to convert this clip to 3D, it was as if we saw the clip with new eyes, just like the original audience. It was the same with the upconversion of the Melies sequences.

Sorry to ramble, but 3D done right really is impressive, and will truly come into its own, when holographic and other technologies free us from 3D glasses. In the meantime, it's still pretty cool.
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post #10520 of 11733
3/8/12 at 11:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thezaks View Post

Hi,

I've tried a HDFury, but the picture had artifacts, and I preferred my component output. I was thinking this might be a high quality device that would do the job a little better.

Regarding HDCP, is the problem that receivers and video processors used to be able to input HDMI video and output to component, and now they can't because of HDCP, OR, have they never been able to do it, thus requiring a device like the HDFury or Moome. I had thought that the problem was getting 1080i out of a component connection, when using HDMI - I thought HDCP was forcing it to be 480p or 480i coming out of the component connection. Please straighten me out on this, if any of you have any idea.

Thanks, Dave

I believe that it was initially possible to output HD to component, but the industry moved towards HDMI, ostensibly to make connections easier, but also to further enhance digital copyright protection. So HDMI utilizes the HDCP as an authenticating handshake.
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post #10521 of 11733
3/8/12 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Two, they have true glass front surface mirrors. Mine has mylar, a stretched reflective film. That presents a 25% difference in light levels right there.

So youse guys have much brighter images than I do! What's wrong with this picture???



b

There's a glass mirror for this.
Oh, right, IN YOUR GARAGE!

Think that might help?
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post #10522 of 11733
3/8/12 at 12:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thezaks View Post

OK, I'm feeling uninformed (dumb!) here, so please help me out. I was thinking of getting a Cary 11V video processor, which claims to convert any video input to any video output. So, I was thinking this would be nice for converting hdmi to component. Let me know why this would or would not work for inputting 1080i from a blu ray player or satellite receiver via hdmi and sending the output to its component output at 1080i.

Thanks, Dave

Well, I called the company that makes the unit... and surprise, surprise, it apparently will convert HDMI to component 1080i, but it will not carry the audio. The audio would have to be carried separately from the generating device (receiver, Blu-Ray player) via analog or Toslink.

The Cary 11V looks like an extraordinarily good and sophisticated device, but it is ten times more expensive then the Fury.

When you tried the HDFury, what version did you use, and what kind of artifacts did you experience?
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post #10523 of 11733
3/8/12 at 12:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

Well, I called the company that makes the unit... and surprise, surprise, it apparently will convert HDMI to component 1080i, but it will not carry the audio. The audio would have to be carried separately from the generating device (receiver, Blu-Ray player) via analog or Toslink.

The Cary 11V looks like an extraordinarily good and sophisticated device, but it is ten times more expensive then the Fury.

When you tried the HDFury, what version did you use, and what kind of artifacts did you experience?

Hi,

Thanks so much for the info. I guess an alternative is to use a blu ray player that has two hdmi outputs -one for audio and the other for video. I think the Oppos do that and possibly the Cambridge.

I used the HDFury III. The artifacts - every now and then there would be glitches - lines going across the screen. It could be because of the video in the Arcam AVR600 I was using at the time, or, it could have been a bad HDFury, as Bob had suggested. Also, the color was not as saturated or vibrant. When I switched back to my component cable directly from source to TV, it was like I noticed an upgrade in video.

Thanks so much,

Dave
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post #10524 of 11733
3/8/12 at 2:40pm
So, am I correct in stating that, at some point (not sure when), all blu ray players will be limited to 480p or 480i resolution through its component outputs (if it even has them)?

If that is the case, what about cable/satellite DVR's? Will the component output of those be limited in the future?

Thanks, Dave
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post #10525 of 11733
3/8/12 at 3:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

I don't advise either. Both/either would leave behind a high degree of residue to evaporate, which would wind up getting in the way of crystal clear viewing. Neither is absorptive in the least.

b

Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

For some reason I got it into my head that you used soaked paper towels...soaked with Sprayway. I'm glad that you don't use paper towels (even soaked), as I imagined they would be abrasive, in addition to leaving behind residue.

What do you use?

Thanks


When I worked in an optics lab, we used kim wipes, folded up tight like a squeegee and pinched in a hemostat. Then we put some drops of high-purity acetone on the kim wipe squeegee and use it to clean the glass.
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post #10526 of 11733
3/8/12 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKaram View Post

When I worked in an optics lab, we used kim wipes, folded up tight like a squeegee and pinched in a hemostat. Then we put some drops of high-purity acetone on the kim wipe squeegee and use it to clean the glass.

The problem is that our lenses are PLASTIC.
I would really hate to see what acetone would do to them.
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post #10527 of 11733
3/8/12 at 4:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thezaks View Post

So, am I correct in stating that, at some point (not sure when), all blu ray players will be limited to 480p or 480i resolution through its component outputs (if it even has them)?

If that is the case, what about cable/satellite DVR's? Will the component output of those be limited in the future?

Thanks, Dave

Many - Most Blu-ray players will output Blu-rays in 1080i via component cables. However this is because most discs allow this. There is a flag recorded on Blu-ray discs by the content owner that will force down-conversion but many discs do not have this flag. It is a question about how many discs in the future will have the flag.

It is funny that while many Blu-ray discs can be output in analog 1080i, up-converted DVDs normally are limited to 480p in analog.
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post #10528 of 11733
3/8/12 at 5:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnj314159 View Post

I am VERY happy with my Craig Rounds-calibrated 65813. It is just a great set.

I also had my 65813 calibrated by Craig 7 years ago. He came by and tuned it up a few years ago. Everyone who sees it lusts for my set. I am running Verizon FIOS HD and the picture is incredible. There are bigger sets now but they do not display sports artifact free like my 65813. Professional Calibration is soooo worth it. Really comes out to pennies a day over the life of the set. When this set fails I will repair it until it becomes economically unfeasible. I already have a second 65813 that I got free and repaired the blinking green light of death. I run my HDMI using a DVI adapter and switcher and audio separately. After a three year search on Craigslist I found an oppo upconverting dvd player with the fajouda chip outputing 1080i that is stunning. So yeah you can have a stunning setup with "vintage" gear. Don't dump that RPTV!

Angel
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post #10529 of 11733
3/8/12 at 7:12pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

Sounds like you got your new TV.

3D depends on parallax, or the difference between the left and right eye views. On a small, hand-held screen, even if the device is presenting both views using a lenticular, glasses-less design, the parallax effect is minimal on the small screen.

Hugo and Avatar, by the way, were filmed in genuine (not digitally unconverted) 3D, and the effects were impressive. The opening scene, when the camera flies into the station, is really amazing. The best use of 3D is to create an immersive atmosphere, into which the viewer is drawn, rather than the creation of a spectacle where objects apparently fly into the audience, although occasionally the latter is fun.

Unfortunately, John Carter was shot in 2D , and upconverted.

On the other hand, upconversions can work well if done carefully and lovingly. One of the most amazing examples of this was in Hugo, when Scorsese upconverted the Lumiere Brothers train arriving in the station clip. When people first saw this early use of cinema, they were genuinely frightened to see the train coming towards them on the screen, as this cinematic recreation was a completely new experience. When Scorsese chose to convert this clip to 3D, it was as if we saw the clip with new eyes, just like the original audience. It was the same with the upconversion of the Melies sequences.

Sorry to ramble, but 3D done right really is impressive, and will truly come into its own, when holographic and other technologies free us from 3D glasses. In the meantime, it's still pretty cool.

Might want to correct that misprint in bold, up there -

b
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post #10530 of 11733
3/8/12 at 7:16pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

I believe that it was initially possible to output HD to component, but the industry moved towards HDMI, ostensibly to make connections easier, but also to further enhance digital copyright protection. So HDMI utilizes the HDCP as an authenticating handshake.

Yes, it's emminently possible to output HD to component, there is absolutely no need for HDMI to do stellar HD to our sets. It's just there to complicate things. INTENTIONALLY!



B
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