Don't dump your CRT RPTV! - Page 354

I was in the same boat as you. I wanted that Elite 70"
I finally got one and have never looked back at my Mits 65" WS65813
However, I was only able to get $300 for it and it was professionally calibrated by Craig Rounds.
Its hard to even give these big things away.
Good Luck
And I can tell you, that Elite will blow your mind in PQ department.

Steve-that's just what I didn't need to hear. A local B&M has a sale this weekend-$5600!!! I wasn't going to go for it because I didn't think the Elite would be that much better than my Mits. Now-----?

Well, most people in this thread will disagree, and that is no problem for me.
I have had ISF calibrated Mits TV's since 2002. A 55" calibrated by Chuck Williams, and then a 65" calibrated by Craig Rounds which BTW was being fed by a Lumagen processor, also calibrated by Craig.
Between Thanksgiving and Christmas last year, I decided to go look at the Elite. I was not THAT impressed with it in the store.
But, BB was having the Black Friday sale, and I got triple points on the purchase (a ~$400 value), so I decided to pull the trigger with a 45 day return policy.
I had both the 65" Mits and the Elite side by side in my home for 1 month running the same content simultaneously (dual HDMI outs from an Oppo BDP-93.)

It only took 1 hour to know I had been missing huge amounts of detail in BD's.
I listed the 65" Mits for sale the day after.
Unfortunately, I was only able to get $300 for the 65" Mits TV and $200 for the Lumagen.
This TV also had the 9" CRT which I thought would sell for more..and quicker.
It took nearly 1 month to off load it.

I hope this helps. I hate to promote an LCD TV in a CRT forum, but I wanted to give you the info I just went through with trying to sell your baby.

BTW: That is an awesome price on the 70".. I would jump on that. As long as it is new and not open box.
There have been many returns on the Elites due to background pulsing issues, which have been drastically reduced with a recent FW update.
Fortunately, my 70" has never exhibited this issue, although my TV does have the recent FW that eliminates it.

I also want to add, that after inputting the public C-NET calibration settings of the 60" Elite, for MOVIE THX mode, I feel absolutely no need for a ISF calibration.
It is that good....to my old eyes.

Some pics of the 70 Elite are HERE
The last 2 pictures are in a darkened room that show how black the blacks are. Inky black

Well, I must respectfully disagree with the notion that the Elite trumps the 65813. I've seen the Elite in THX mode and although it has an excellent picture, there are things about it which are less pleasing to my eye than my 65813, and I haven't even had it calibrated or given it a good optics cleaning and focusing. There is a palpability to the CRT driven image, a sense of depth to the picture that I didn't find in the Elite or any LCD that I've seen. It is also easier on the eye.

There is invariably a question of taste and personal preference involved in how we assess anything.

I'd be curious to see how those compare to straight up SAMOLED. I know that on my Epic they share one of the subpixels across the screen, and it's not the same detail level as LCD, but the contrast ratio is perfect - better than CRT. You can have stuff going on in the middle of the screen and absolutely No light or shadows around it - even in a pitch black room, and the CRT is very good in this respect, but not quite like the SAMOLED, and the SAMOLED doesn't seem as blurry either.

Very interesting stuff.

- 2B

Well, when you're talking about OLED you're talking about a display technology that offers real advantages. Much better viewing angles than RPTV and LCD, deep, pure blacks that are unachievable by either our sets or LCDs with local dimming, tremendous detail, great handling of motion.

Despite the naysayers who predicted OLED was far away as a realized product, LG's 55 inch variant of OLED (WOLED) will be coming out soon (supposedly May) at a reported price of a few dollars shy of $8000. This price will likely drop in a year or so with increased production. Samsung's set is said to follow, and larger panels are a logical sequel.

Sony has something called CLED impending, which uses inorganic LEDs, not as backlighting for LCD, but as discrete picture elements, much like OLED. OLED and CLED can offer true black without blooming, as you can have a pixel completely shut off (black) right next to a white or colored pixel. This is unachievable with our sets, or local dimming LCD.

But until a truly large OLED (or CLED) panel at an affordable price comes along, I see no reason to get another set. I am amazed at the picture quality of the Mits, can watch it for hours without eye fatigue, and will not part with it at any price.

As much as I love my Toshiba H83 51" set, it just can't compare to my DLP. I would wager a bet that you would change your mind once the Elite was in your home, in your environment, playing side by side next to your CRT. Don't get me wrong, CRT is great, and was the best when all this new tech began to evolve. But it has been almost a decade now since the new tech came about and it has matured wonderfully. CRT anymore is like having a Windows 2000 system, that while works, cannot take full advantage of what programming has evolved to.

I commend us all (and Bob) for keeping the CRT tech going, and it is great, reliable entertainment, but same as when solid state circuitry entered the picture (no pun intended ) tubes were phased out in favor of the newer BETTER technology. That is what is going on now. TV's now have even better black levels than CRT did (in some cases, not all) so that argument is moot. The only real good thing about CRT tech now, is that they are dirt cheap for large screens. However, anyone kept an eye on prices recently? Dropped like a rock they have. In ALOT of cases, I see CRT sets selling (not being bought tho ) sometimes for MORE than what a brand new 50" plasma set sells for (when the plasma is on sale which is like all the time) at the store.

New TV's have better chip sets in them that provide a magnificent picture compared to the troubles in the past. I still don't care for LCD (still looks to plasticky to me, I don't like watching video on my computer monitor very much either) but I have yet to observe the Elite so that set may change my mind if/when I ever see it.

True. You can get CRT RPTVs for free, but large SAMOLED and related sets are super expensive and CRT RPTV is an amazing picture for a few dollars after convergence IC repair, you know? Those $4000 sets are for the hardcore home theater user.

- 2B

Well, I paid $500 for a 65813 in really great condition a year ago, plus $135.00 for trucking, and I feel lucky to have found it. This was after looking at a number of sets, mostly with 7 inch tubes. I frankly wasn't expecting as good a picture as I got, given that I was looking for an inexpensive transitional set to tide me over.

Every time I go to showrooms I look at everything, feel like I'm looking at computer displays, and walk away eye fatigued. The Elite is the best of the LCDs, costs between $6000 and $8000 (less when you shop), but doesn't look better to me, even though it is very sharp in the way that computer displays are sharp. But in the final analysis, it's all a matter of preference.

OLED and CLED are another story, and are worth saving for. They represent, in my view, a real jump forward in picture quality...more than any current displays. Control of individual pixels is the way to go.

The unanswered question with new OLED designs may be whether they're susceptible to burn in. I suspect that CLED will show some advantage in this respect.

I don't get eye fatigue from watching plasma or LCD sets, so I'm not sure what the problem is there. I will say that I prefer the motion of a CRT to LCD by far, even the best Sharp Elite LCD displays can't touch CRT in that area. Plasma is WAY better than LCD in that regard, but has other issues, and isn't quite as good as CRT. (Although it was good enough that I did finally jump ship when I could buy a really good 65" plasma for $1500.)

OLED is definitely the tech to watch, but until 65" (and bigger!) sets are available for semi-tolerable prices ($4k or so), it's not a viable alternative in any sense of the word. And, while of course the PQ of OLED is outstanding, I do still wonder about how well they handle motion compared to the terrible motion in LCDs. I guess we'll see once they actually start shipping, since you can't even buy that 55" model at any price, not even $8k, as of today. They just more vaporware from CES, until they start showing up in retail showrooms.

I use a laptop with an IPS LCD without discomfort, but have found truly large LCD panels uncomfortable for extended periods, as do a number of people.

I wish you had had the chance to see a Mits with 9 inch tubes, but I'm sure your plasma is a great set.

With the top officials of LG promising the WOLED 55 inch in time for the Cannes festival in May, and numerous industry articles on the set, I'm sure it's more than vaporware. LG didn't buy Kodak's WOLED patents on a whim.

I have a Mits 55413 that I love. But really want a bigger screen now. I hadn't paid much attention to these forums in years until recently. First I started reading awhile back and was getting interested in those Sharp Elites. Then I read the 2011 Mits DLP thread, and was set one one of those. Huge screen at a much better price than a smaller LED/Plasma..Plus I much prefer the RPTV look..I suppose it may be partly because I'm so used to it. THEN I came across this thread. So I'm curious to know how some of you would compare the PQ of a fully calibrated Mits DLP to 65" or 73" fully calibrated CRT RPTV? Especially considering many think these practically free TV's have a better PQ than a $6,000 LED.

I guess I'm just lucky re eye strain on LCDs, I just haven't experienced that on any LCD set I've spent time watching. Annoyance at black levels, motion quality (not talking about soap opera effect, rather, just not as smooth motion) and uneven backlighting I've definitely seen, but no eye strain issues.

I spent a couple of hours watching content at the home of the guy I nearly bought that 65813 from, so I've seen them. Very nice, but not worth the money it would have cost me, IMO. I ultimately decided there is more to a picture than depth and motion. My plasma only takes a very small hit on black levels, a small hit on motion, and a noticeable hit on depth, but in return, I have a happy wife (very important) and a very nice looking living room, a LOT more detail in the picture, zero overscan, and not to mention true 1080p without mucking around with locking outputs and scalers, 3D, and a full array of modern connections available for all of my equipment (including the HTPC I intend to connect), and a full warranty, all for about $200 more (net) than I would have paid to have the 10 year old set moved to my house and calibrated. (I have BRs, Calman and a meter to calibrate my ST30 myself, but eventually I'll have a pro go over it as well, but honestly I'm not in a huge hurry as I'm happy with the picture now.)

I WANTED to go with the Mits, but I just couldn't justify it in the end. I do realize I sacrificed certain things, and I'm sad about that, but still sufficiently happy with what I have that I feel like I made the right call.

Having seen neither fully calibrated, but have seen the 65" CRT PRTV and owning a 73" Mits DLP, I can honestly say CRT has nothing on a DLP, while the DLP has everything (IMHO) over CRT, plasma, and LCD/LED.

There are just so many variables involved here, in comparing one set to another, that the old literary concept of the odious comparison seems valid here.

With respect to comparing CRT RPTVs, even if you are comparing model to model you need to eliminate differences based on how many hours each set has on it, whether the focus is good, whether the optics are clean. Any of these factors can make a huge difference, based on my perusal of a number of sets, and reading that I've done on this forum and other places. So hands-on (or eyes on) experience with any particular set is highly advisable. My set seems to have very low hours on it.

With respect to my own experience, I was looking at Mitsubishi DLP's, and almost bought one. I wanted to like the 92 inch and the 80 inch but found that the 73 inch offered the brightest and sharpest image. It so happened that the particular set which I found was brighter and sharper than any of the DLPs.

I didn't notice eye fatigue with plasma, very much appreciated the stupendous off axis viewing, and found the image pleasing, just as I did with CRT RPTV and DLP. But the plasmas I saw at Best Buy and Paul's TV were not brighter than my Mitsubishi.

So there are many variables involved, including one's eyes and one's subjective experience, so it's great that there are many options out there.

Has anyone recently compared picture on rptv from video processor, like dvdo vp30 to using an average avr?

I have a Pioneer SD-643hd5- a vp30 I originally bought to use with crt front projection and a Yamaha RX-V867 I got to have amongst other things the network features. While not new to home theater, I seem to fall short of getting the most out of these things.

Any observations welcome.

Well, I wasn't saying that I liked DLP better than my 65813, only that DLPs are easier on the eye than LCDs. Plasmas have that "phosphor look" that I like in CRTs, but they don't seem to have the brightness and intensity that I like in my display.

Beside the picture quality of my Mits, I appreciate the robustness of the technology. Over the year that I've had it. I find myself turning brightness and contrast down. The set just has so much headroom.

Did you ever have a chance to look at the Elite 70 inch? It has a very good image quality in THX, making it the best LCD that I've seen, but I honestly don't prefer to my Mits. Again, the concept with CRT RPTV that comes to mind is palpability and solidity of the image. It's quite sharp without seeming etched.

But, each to their own.

You should check one out just for the heck of it. The prices have come down quite a bit, and Sharp has ameliorated the pulsing issue.

But it's still "edgy", and I prefer my screen. In fact, I like it better than anything I've seen in showrooms.

I found this place in SoCal that appears in business, but its voicemail is full. Obviously a small independent vendor. The 73 Mits is not listed (they have up to 65 inch in stock), but apparently they can cut to order. $200 for the 65 inch.

Maybe try them in a day or two?

http://www.frontsurfacemirror.com/index.html

The phone and fax were imbedded a little deeper in the site:

Contact info:

High Reflective Mirrors.com
info@frontsurfacemirror.com

Tel: 707-889-0226
Fax: 707-542-1543

Faxing them?

UPDATE:

I just found this site. Looks high grade and in business. I'm providing the link to the glass surface mirror page, as they make aluminum mirrors as well:

http://www.firstsurfacemirror.com/gl...acemirrors.htm

UPDATE 2

And this place:

http://mirotek.com/

Probably he has to reflect on your request.

After all, he's mirrorly human.

Have you seen the 2010/2011 Mits DLP's (WD-xxx38 or WD-xxx40) models? Supposedly they have much better image quality than earlier DLP's (according to people who've owned DLP's on this forum).

I'm no expert but I recently swapped out my Hitachi 51F59A with a Mits WD-73640 as I couldn't stand my unique problems with my Hitachi. Those being HDMI shift after the fix with only my HTPC which is 95% of my watching source, component inputs throw a solid green image randomly, sick of constant convergence, and some other crap. I thought about another used RP CRT but I didn't want to sort through all the junk on Craigslist and deal with potential burn in and the lack of 720p input support without an external scaling processor. Also people want like $700 for RP CRT's on my local craigslist, and I'm not talking HD models...

Anyway I'm pretty impressed with my DLP and I feel like they're the closest to CRT you can currently buy brand new. The rainbows do suck but after eye balling the brightness and contrast settings to the white and black clipping videos provided in the Video Calibration sub forum on here I was able to get rid of most of them for me. The colors are good, of course the blacks aren't quite as good as CRT but what is? Plus the picture is much sharper than my CRT as I was never able to get that as sharp as I liked. My CRT had more halos due to the sharpness setting than the DLP.

My wife may get my Hitachi 51F59A for her woman cave. She hasn't quite said yes yet but if anyone in Michigan near Ann Arbor, Lansing, Jackson, or Kalamazoo areas are interested in a cheap pair of 51F59's (I have 2, one is more of a parts TV but it does turn on but has an "ozone"/ionized smell coming from the back when turned on) PM me.

I hate DLP too. I was recently talking with a friend who was working on his DLP and we both couldn't figure out why it looked so bad (beside being merely a WVGA resolution). Colors seemed to blend in with each other and no matter what we did, we couldn't figure it out. After a while, he gave up and handed me the remote. I played with those settings for what must've been a half hour before calling it quits. I swear my broken 1999 SVGA LCD projector (which has a 300:1 contrast ratio) doesn't do that, so we're all just prepetually stumped. I'm sure the pricier ones look better, but the ones I've seen just look awful like a computer in 256 color only mode.

- 2B

"Too"? As if you are agreeing with Bob, tho he states nothing stronger than:


Out of the DLPs I've owned/resurrected, I've seen none display what you describe, and is likely caused by a defective light engine, worn out lamp or filthy light path. But colors that "blend in with each other" is certainly NOT characteristic of DLP, just as it is not characteristic of CRT.

And rainbows...I must be the one most fortunate person to not see them. That would be a deal breaker for me but not an issue now. I continue to suggest DLP as it truely is the best, most filmlike, smooth, natural picture available in a display today. IMO.

As a side note...Had a scare yesterday here. The wife turned the Toshiba 51H83 and got a picture then 3 minutes later just snow, and the bottom of the screen bowed upward with red & green 'prism' looking colors seperated. Ended up just turning off for a minute then upon power up, all was well and normal again. BUT! Is this the beginning of the end? I was hoping for the set to last a few more years as it is only about 8 years old now. Time will tell.