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Don't dump your CRT RPTV! - Page 383

post #11461 of 12301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bweissman View Post

If you want to listen to high-res audio, it has to be via HDMI unless your BDP has multichannel analog audio outs and your pre/pro has corresponding audio ins. If you watch component while listening to HDMI, you are likely to notice the audio & video are out of sync. Component video is real-time, but HDMI audio's processing may be audibly delayed. So watching through HDMI is the best way to keep A & V in sync if you listen to high-res audio via HDMI.

Excellent observation, Bob. I hadn't thought of the delay that would come with trying to mix digital audio with analog video. Analog should stay with analog and digital with digital, definitely.

wink.gif

b

For years people used analog component video output with digital coax/optical audio output without issue.  

post #11462 of 12301
Right now I use a DVD player attached through my 65813 DVI port, and the internal speakers (not bad in Surround Mode). At some point I will buy a receiver, speakers, or possibly an advanced soundbar.

At this point I don't notice any lag with my primitive setup, but contemplating future audio possibilities makes me dizzy, regarding the digital/analog conflict!

Happy Holidays!
post #11463 of 12301
Alas, my love affair with my 47" Panasonic CRT-RP has ended. It has been a great set. Crisp, clear, with great colors. Today I went to turn it on and a very load CRACK came from it. Now the power light only blinks.

I had it for 7.5 years without any problems at all. I am getting ready to move and was contemplating selling it off for $100 or so. Now, I have a 175 pound dead TV and have to find a way to get rid of it.

No complaints. I more than got my money's worth out of it. When I purchased it I was thinking it was a bridge set, something to tide me over for 3-4 years until I would upgrade to something larger. 3 years passed, 4, 5, 6, and 7. The picture was so nice that I was never seriously tempted to replace it.

Ironically, just last night, I gave away my old 32" Toshiba CRT set. Today was the first day in over 30 years where I had only 1 TV in the house, and it breaks upon power up. I did not get even 1 minute of use out of it as my only TV. What are the odds???
post #11464 of 12301
Note for anyone looking:
PARTING: Pioneer Elite 64" PRO 700HD
Call with needs
949-610-3310
Steve
post #11465 of 12301
Just opened my set, for the first time ever. I was amazed by how clean it was inside. Almost no dust at all. Only the lightest layer on the three CRT guns, had to look for it to see it.

I was hoping the fuse had blown and I could swap it out to see if that fixed it. No dice. Fuse was intact.

When I power it on, it tries to power up, the red power light comes on for about 4 or 5 seconds, then it starts flashing.

Oh well. I really liked this set. I figure I got from 12,000 to 14,000 hours out of it. Never had a trace of burn-in.
post #11466 of 12301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Bombadil View Post

My Panasonic PT-47X54 RPTV is developing a problem. It has been nigh perfect for over 7 years. But now I'm seeing some black crush, a definite loss of detail in dark areas. Started a week ago. I've up'ed the brightness a bit, as my CRTs have maybe close to 13,000 to 15,000 hours on them.
It's very disappointing. And very obvious. Can't see much of anything in dark areas of the screen.
I don't suppose there's much I can do about it. Thought I would post here just in case someone could suggest something.

I was just over at a friends house, and they have a Panasonic 47" CRT RPTV. Not exactly sure on the model, but I'm thinking it's close to yours. I helped them set it up when new, and now the picture is not very good at all. They were complaining to me of a very dark picture. I had to bump the brightness and contrast way up, and there was still very much black crush and white blooming. Does this sound like a problem that'd be solved by opening the set and cleaning?

I've had just a bit of experience with CRT RPTV, earlier in the thread, I posted pictures of my wife's parents 55" Philips that I replaced the CRT fluid. The thing looked brand new afterwards. I'm hoping I'll be able to get my friend's Panasonic back to almost new, if possible.
post #11467 of 12301
Quote:
Originally Posted by oryan_dunn View Post

I was just over at a friends house, and they have a Panasonic 47" CRT RPTV. Not exactly sure on the model, but I'm thinking it's close to yours. I helped them set it up when new, and now the picture is not very good at all. They were complaining to me of a very dark picture. I had to bump the brightness and contrast way up, and there was still very much black crush and white blooming. Does this sound like a problem that'd be solved by opening the set and cleaning?
I've had just a bit of experience with CRT RPTV, earlier in the thread, I posted pictures of my wife's parents 55" Philips that I replaced the CRT fluid. The thing looked brand new afterwards. I'm hoping I'll be able to get my friend's Panasonic back to almost new, if possible.

Until Bob speaks up, the things you've mentioned are all consistent with dirty optics, but that does not mean that there aren't other issues.

Out of curiosity, based on their viewing experience, did this dimming, black crush, and blooming appear gradually, or abruptly?

Cleaning the optics (carefully!) is certainly an appropriate first step.
post #11468 of 12301
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WATERWALKER4 View Post

Note for anyone looking:
PARTING: Pioneer Elite 64" PRO 700HD
Call with needs
949-610-3310
Steve

I believe 949 is San Diego, right?

If not you might want to post where you are. Transporting these babies takes a truck. They are on wheels, but still...


b
post #11469 of 12301
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Bombadil View Post

Just opened my set, for the first time ever. I was amazed by how clean it was inside. Almost no dust at all. Only the lightest layer on the three CRT guns, had to look for it to see it.
I was hoping the fuse had blown and I could swap it out to see if that fixed it. No dice. Fuse was intact.
When I power it on, it tries to power up, the red power light comes on for about 4 or 5 seconds, then it starts flashing.
Oh well. I really liked this set. I figure I got from 12,000 to 14,000 hours out of it. Never had a trace of burn-in.


The thing that usually goes out on these sets is that the convergence ICs wear out. Fuses can blow or not blow, you never know. Those ICs are like a thermostat on a car - you don't replace the car, you replace the thermostat. Many DIYers on this thread have done just that, for merely the cost of the parts. It's worth a try even if that's not the problem. Most you lose is the parts cost and a little labor/time.

b
post #11470 of 12301
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oryan_dunn View Post

I was just over at a friends house, and they have a Panasonic 47" CRT RPTV. Not exactly sure on the model, but I'm thinking it's close to yours. I helped them set it up when new, and now the picture is not very good at all. They were complaining to me of a very dark picture. I had to bump the brightness and contrast way up, and there was still very much black crush and white blooming. Does this sound like a problem that'd be solved by opening the set and cleaning?
I've had just a bit of experience with CRT RPTV, earlier in the thread, I posted pictures of my wife's parents 55" Philips that I replaced the CRT fluid. The thing looked brand new afterwards. I'm hoping I'll be able to get my friend's Panasonic back to almost new, if possible.

Hard to say. Your Screen controls may need realignment. Optics cleaning would be a great start tho, and won't break the bank if that's not it. Contact me and arrange an appointment if you want straight from the shoulder guidance on that.

b
Edited by Mr Bob - 12/25/12 at 8:35am
post #11471 of 12301
949- is Orange County- Mission VIejo area
post #11472 of 12301
For the past couple of months my Mits WS-55413 RP TV has been sick. When I would power it on it would have lines and a purple color for a few minutes until it warmed up. SD would have color run, HDTV would be just a little off except when I used monlink for the BD player vs DTV for the cable box. Well for Christmas the TV now has decided not to power on.... The green light would come on for about 4 seconds then go off. I've tried several times and unplugged it as well.

So I am guessing that maybe the fine tuner was going and now it is gone so the power on cycle won't complete. I have had it for 8 years, I have avoided major burn-in. I am in the Sacramento CA area (Roseville). Is it worth it for me to pursue fixing this? Christmas of 2003 I bought it for $2200, 8 years is pretty good.... I do like the picture, but for $1200 I can get a 55" Panasonic 3D LED-LCD HDTV like the 42" one I now have in my bedroom....

Thanks!

Fred

PS: Merry Christmas!
post #11473 of 12301
Would anyone happen to know if there is a convertor that will allow me to connect the digital audio out from my 65813 to an optical input on a soundbar?

Thanks, and Merry Christmas!
post #11474 of 12301
Quote:
Originally Posted by oryan_dunn View Post

I was just over at a friends house, and they have a Panasonic 47" CRT RPTV. Not exactly sure on the model, but I'm thinking it's close to yours. I helped them set it up when new, and now the picture is not very good at all. They were complaining to me of a very dark picture. I had to bump the brightness and contrast way up, and there was still very much black crush and white blooming. Does this sound like a problem that'd be solved by opening the set and cleaning?
I've had just a bit of experience with CRT RPTV, earlier in the thread, I posted pictures of my wife's parents 55" Philips that I replaced the CRT fluid. The thing looked brand new afterwards. I'm hoping I'll be able to get my friend's Panasonic back to almost new, if possible.

That black crush issue for me plagued my set for about a week. I don't know if it had something to do with DirecTV. I had to bump up the brightness by 8 units, on a 64 point scale, for a week, and then it went away. Reset it to the same settings it had used for 7 years and it was fine. Well, until a couple of days ago.
post #11475 of 12301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

The thing that usually goes out on these sets is that the convergence ICs wear out. Fuses can blow or not blow, you never know. Those ICs are like a thermostat on a car - you don't replace the car, you replace the thermostat. Many DIYers on this thread have done just that, for merely the cost of the parts. It's worth a try even if that's not the problem. Most you lose is the parts cost and a little labor/time.
b

Yes, that is a common problem with these sets. And the power light will blink 3 times when there is a convergence IC problem. Mine is blinking once.

I did find a problem report that matched mine perfectly. Same blinking pattern. Same description of failure. Here is a response to that incident and this did fix the set in question. So maybe I will take a look to see if I can spot this capacitor.

"I would with back off have a look---look at high voltage transformer and that area of board and pay special attention to C509 (brown cap in front of high voltage transformer about 2 inches---it will be marked with that C509 on board.

If it is cracked or burnt it is bad---these fail a lot."

"The cap is a .047 microfarad at 200 volts DC."
post #11476 of 12301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Bombadil View Post

Yes, that is a common problem with these sets. And the power light will blink 3 times when there is a convergence IC problem. Mine is blinking once.
I did find a problem report that matched mine perfectly. Same blinking pattern. Same description of failure. Here is a response to that incident and this did fix the set in question. So maybe I will take a look to see if I can spot this capacitor.
"I would with back off have a look---look at high voltage transformer and that area of board and pay special attention to C509 (brown cap in front of high voltage transformer about 2 inches---it will be marked with that C509 on board.
If it is cracked or burnt it is bad---these fail a lot."
"The cap is a .047 microfarad at 200 volts DC."

Just checked inside my unit and found that cap. It looks fine. Every cap on the entire board looks fine.

I knew it couldn't be that easy.
post #11477 of 12301
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

Would anyone happen to know if there is a convertor that will allow me to connect the digital audio out from my 65813 to an optical input on a soundbar?
Thanks, and Merry Christmas!

This?
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10423&cs_id=1042302&p_id=2947&seq=1&format=2
post #11478 of 12301

Thanks. I'm hoping that the audio standard that the 2004-2005 65813 will be compatible with such a unit.
Also, do you know of a port replicator that would essentially double the available optical inputs on the soundbar? That way I could run both the DVD player and the TV into the soundbar without having to swap cables.

Thanks again. Monoprice is such a great company!

I wish you and all on the forum speedy recovery from over-eating! biggrin.gif
post #11479 of 12301
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post


Also, do you know of a port replicator that would essentially double the available optical inputs on the soundbar? That way I could run both the DVD player and the TV into the soundbar without having to swap cables.
Thanks again. Monoprice is such a great company!
I wish you and all on the forum speedy recovery from over-eating! biggrin.gif

This will take 3 Toslink inputs with a manual switch to one output.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10423&cs_id=1042302&p_id=2946&seq=1&format=2
post #11480 of 12301
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

Thanks. I'm hoping that the audio standard that the 2004-2005 65813 will be compatible with such a unit.
Also, do you know of a port replicator that would essentially double the available optical inputs on the soundbar? That way I could run both the DVD player and the TV into the soundbar without having to swap cables.
Thanks again. Monoprice is such a great company!
I wish you and all on the forum speedy recovery from over-eating! biggrin.gif

This might work even though it says it doesn't. It works with my receiver. I use it for Xbox 360 and PS3 to one optical input cuz I don't have enough optical inputs on my receiver for all my crap.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10423&cs_id=1042301&p_id=966&seq=1&format=2
post #11481 of 12301
Thanks, guys.

The switcher might be better because, since you're switching...rather than splitting...the signal remains stronger,

It seems with monoprice's switcher that the input don't give the snuggest fit for some.
post #11482 of 12301
Thread Starter 
This was posted on the Pioneer Elite PRO 510 Problem thread from djones 18, and I thought I'd share it with you here.


I love this thread.

I've been reading since it started. Mr Bob helped keep my Elite 510HD alive several years beyond what I believed possible. Since early 1999, my Elite black monolith has been center stage in my man-cave. The power board was resoldered five years ago due to the dreaded blue flash and I thought it was goners then. It has performed perfectly since and required no other professional maintenance in almost 14 years. Yes, 14 years! Can the same be said of any other complex heavily used electrical appliance? These Pioneers, along with their sibling Kuro Plasmas, set the absolute standard for their time. Yes, my Elite does require tweaking, it weighs almost as much as a Mini, now requires cooling fans to dissipate heat, and requires a small nuc reactor to power. But it still produces a quality picture using Blu-ray discs in 1080i I'd happily stick next to any display today.

However, there's a new kid on the block and it may replace my beloved Elite. It's OLED, a technology with the potential to overcome all the issues Plasma and LCD/LED panel owners gripe about. LG has today announced they will start selling consumer ready panels this year, first in Korea, then likely here in the United States. Yes, it will expensive and it is an untested technology in large panel sizes. But Pioneer Elites in 1999, were new technology and were wallet busting expensive compared to big screen TVs of their day. They were almost twice as expensive as their nearest rear projection HD rival...and there were few rivals. OLED is likely to be similar.

So finally a technology emerges which may unseat my Elite. We'll see. Until then, I'll keep reading this great thread, tweak my Elite, and hope Mr Bob keeps helping us oldtimers.

Happy New Year!



Here was my response -

Great to hear from you, Dave!

All you say is absolutely true, including that Pioneer Elite and non-Elite CRT technology continues to keep the bar super high in comparisons with other displays, even today. If you still own one, owners out there, you're sitting on a gold mine. Get it cleaned and calibrated and it will look better than new. Keep it cleaned and calibrated, as it is only halfway thru its 20 year service life. I remain available, domestically and internationally, for such services and will continue to do so.

OLED had been on the scene already for a couple of years last time I went to CES, 3 years ago. At that time you could snag an 11" Sony OLED for only $2500! And they had a 27"er there, largest made at that time, but it was proprietary only and not in production. Yes that million:1 contrast ratio was amazing to see in person. And you can wrap OLED around curves if you want, it's a flexible medium.

Since I am finally going to CES again in a week, I can't wait to see the new advancements in OLED for myself. There's also AMOLED and a few other variations now.

But CRT still continues to lead the pack in contrast ratio among the other technologies. Cliff in Indiana added a third G90 to his already classic G90 double stack, and the passive, non-dynamic, measured contrast ratio was above 525,000:1. He sent in screenshots from it which were absolutely dazzling, every bit as good as the million:1 CR I saw from the Sony OLED at CES.

So hang in there with your Elite. It is still the cat's meow on many levels, esp. the one where dollars come into it.

Display owners: I will be in Vegas in a week! Let's get a beer!

wink.gif

b
Edited by Mr Bob - 1/2/13 at 10:55am
post #11483 of 12301
Hi all - 2 old school questions....

1 I have a PRO-730HD - would the PRO-730(X30)HDi digital input box/card just swap out - R+R mine with the HDMI type, hook up video and audio card level outs, and go? (If so, and someone's parting out...)

2 I have a bit of what I call red flare - while warming up (1st hour or so) the screen -wide red goes up, say doubles, for a few seconds and then settles back to normal. I would just jump in on the gun-base cards - but - I read this set has some inherent flare or red problems of it's own. Do I tackle gun cards like a normal RPTV, or follow up on that diode mod? (All inputs, can still see pic, just all red tint overlay.)

THX
post #11484 of 12301
Hey there, Bob.

Happy New Year, with health and good finances for you!

With talk of bit rates going on in another thread, what is the bit rate (if it applies) of our TVs.
Or put differently, how many colors are they capable of displaying?
post #11485 of 12301
Hi all - I have a Pioneer 530Hdi that has gotten dim.

Bob already coached me through cleaning the optics over the phone (highly recommended for anyone in the same position). That helped clean up the picture, almost like a haze was removed but didn't really help with the black levels.

Since then I've been trying to educate myself a bit. I've read that a common procedure to fix dimming CRTs is to realign the G2 voltage using the screen controls on the focus block. I was curious if the G2 voltage needs to be adjusted because it has drifted and needs to be restored or is the supplied voltage simply no longer sufficient because the CRTs have aged and now require a higher voltage for the same brightness?

Is there any danger to experimenting with adjusting these controls on my own? I understand I can mess up the greyscale on the set but can I cause any permanent damage to myself or the TV? I'm tempted to mark the current positions with a marker and experiment a bit but am leery of causing any harm.

As far as actually doing the adjustment. The general procedure I've found is to display a black image either by switching to an input without a signal or a black scene. Then slowly turn the skew for until the raster lines become visible, then to slightly back it off so the raster lines are invisible again. Repeat for the other two CRTs. Is this a safe way to adjust a Pioneer?

THANKS!!
post #11486 of 12301
In matters like these I have found it is wise, when in doubt, to do nothing.

I think it would be prudent to wait for Bob to surface before adjusting the voltage.

Happy New Year!
post #11487 of 12301
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by er824 View Post

Hi all - I have a Pioneer 530Hdi that has gotten dim.
Bob already coached me through cleaning the optics over the phone (highly recommended for anyone in the same position). That helped clean up the picture, almost like a haze was removed but didn't really help with the black levels.
Since then I've been trying to educate myself a bit. I've read that a common procedure to fix dimming CRTs is to realign the G2 voltage using the screen controls on the focus block. I was curious if the G2 voltage needs to be adjusted because it has drifted and needs to be restored or is the supplied voltage simply no longer sufficient because the CRTs have aged and now require a higher voltage for the same brightness?
Is there any danger to experimenting with adjusting these controls on my own? I understand I can mess up the greyscale on the set but can I cause any permanent damage to myself or the TV? I'm tempted to mark the current positions with a marker and experiment a bit but am leery of causing any harm.
As far as actually doing the adjustment. The general procedure I've found is to display a black image either by switching to an input without a signal or a black scene. Then slowly turn the skew for until the raster lines become visible, then to slightly back it off so the raster lines are invisible again. Repeat for the other two CRTs. Is this a safe way to adjust a Pioneer?
THANKS!!

Such advice was good when grayscale was a secondary aspect of calibration and relatively unknown, when owners were not all that savvy about such things. Since then ISF has come into existence and turned excellence in video displays into an art form, and has been achieving excellent grayscales for decades, head and shoulders above the simple directives you have stated here. What you have stated did apply at one time, but is very old school now, and rarely used these days. It would never pass inspection for an ISF grade calibration.

If you want to do it the way I do and achieve the results I achieve, contact me again and let's get it done right, for today's much more modern displays. A Pioneer Elite deserves that.

b
post #11488 of 12301
Thanks for the reply Bob.

Would you mind explaining the theory behind the need for the G2 adjustment? I'm curious if the voltage has drifted or if the CRTs have aged and now need more energy.
post #11489 of 12301
Hey, Bob. I don't know if you missed my earlier question, but I'm curious about bit rate and the number of colors that a CRT RPTV
can display (compared to LCD, for example).

Cheers.
post #11490 of 12301
Thread Starter 
And to you! Hope the new year is treating you well.

cool.gif

CRT is infinitely variable as to colors, so there is no limit to the number on that. Digital has finite values and as such needs such numbers, CRT does not. So you can theoretically take it to infinity as to the number of colors CRT can produce.

CRT doesn't use bit rate either. If you're a computer person you might be interested in pursuing that and finding out about it, but I am not - am not an HTPC user - and as such am delightfully clueless. It's need to know and I don't. Ignorance indeed can be bliss!

Scanrate is all we really need to know for CRT. For the bigger ceiling projectors framerate gets involved, and some can do 24fps and some cannot. But CRT RPTV definitely cannot, any more than it can do 1080p.

b
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