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Don't dump your CRT RPTV! - Page 6

post #151 of 12298
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wytchone View Post

Why? Cant see me getting a better PQ using HDMI. Please enlighten me


My experience from calibrating both is that CRT based RPTVs do not benefit from DVI/HDMI, and that component in many cases looks better than either of the digital formats.

From those who own both: The digital formats are quoted as looking better than component on fixed pixel, but not on CRT based. Don't limit yourself if you can still get your HD or HD scanrate upconverted DVD to come in via component. I don't think it will look any better on digital IPs on any CRT based TV, RP or DV.

I think component/RGB is your best shot on CRT based anything. That's what they were originally designed for, and it remains the best for them.

Digital IPs like DVI/HDMI were designed specifically for all digital fixed pixel sets, and didn't happen until all digital sets had become very prolific.


Mr Bob
post #152 of 12298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

My experience from calibrating both is that CRT based RPTVs do not benefit from DVI/HDMI, and that component in many cases looks better than either of the digital formats.
Mr Bob

For CRT technology, it seems to me that this is really a question of whether the DVD or the TV's circuitry is superior at converting the signal to analog.

This is similar to the question of using a digital or analog output of a CD player to a home theater receiver.

For a fixed pixel display, HDMI should look superior, since you avoid extra digital-analog-digital conversions.

Regards,

Rob
post #153 of 12298
Ahh ok thats what I thought was just making sure I did miss anything. As of now only way I would use HDMI is if and when I get a HD/BluRay DVD player.
post #154 of 12298
Mr. Bob, this thread has inspired me to look into calibrating my Toshiba 57H81. I think this is year 5 or 6 for this set. I've never had a professional calibration, only me venturing into the service menu from time to time. I'd like to set up a professional calibration and cleaning. I think there was a thread a while back with a list of ISF'ers in different parts of the country - anyone know where that is? Or can one be recommended in the Metro Detroit area?

Thanks,
Matt

Also, does anyone know if the protective screen can be removed on my set? The glare really can be a problem at times.
post #155 of 12298
Quote:
Originally Posted by oktoberrust11 View Post

Mr. Bob, this thread has inspired me to look into calibrating my Toshiba 57H81. I think this is year 5 or 6 for this set. I've never had a professional calibration, only me venturing into the service menu from time to time. I'd like to set up a professional calibration and cleaning. I think there was a thread a while back with a list of ISF'ers in different parts of the country - anyone know where that is? Or can one be recommended in the Metro Detroit area?

Thanks,
Matt

Also, does anyone know if the protective screen can be removed on my set? The glare really can be a problem at times.

6year old set? I can tell you Mr Bob would have a heart attack tearing that thing apart and making it a new beast But it would cost quite a bit to fly Mrbob out to your area for 1calibration, but still hes one of the best when it comes to CRT's
post #156 of 12298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

My experience from calibrating both is that CRT based RPTVs do not benefit from DVI/HDMI, and that component in many cases looks better than either of the digital formats.

From those who own both: The digital formats are quoted as looking better than component on fixed pixel, but not on CRT based. Don't limit yourself if you can still get your HD or HD scanrate upconverted DVD to come in via component. I don't think it will look any better on digital IPs on any CRT based TV, RP or DV.

I think component/RGB is your best shot on CRT based anything. That's what they were originally designed for, and it remains the best for them.

Digital IPs like DVI/HDMI were designed specifically for all digital fixed pixel sets, and didn't happen until all digital sets had become very prolific.


Mr Bob

Bob,

What's nice about upscaling DVI/HDMI players is you can upconvert and not see scanlines. I HATE seeing scanlines on my Sony CRT RPTV. There is nothing more distracting than seeing scanlines. This is the reason I upconvert....to avoid them. My focus is very sharp on all three CRTs and I would have to sit 13 feet back to avoid seeing scanlines at 480p.
post #157 of 12298
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Bob,

What's nice about upscaling DVI/HDMI players is you can upconvert and not see scanlines. I HATE seeing scanlines on my Sony CRT RPTV. There is nothing more distracting than seeing scanlines. This is the reason I upconvert....to avoid them. My focus is very sharp on all three CRTs and I would have to sit 13 feet back to avoid seeing scanlines at 480p.


I call that the "window-slat effect", and is exactly the same reason I like my upconverting 480->1080i LiteOn DVDP! What's highly visible in 480 is next to invisible in 1080.


Mr Bob
post #158 of 12298
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballz2TheWallz View Post

6year old set? I can tell you Mr Bob would have a heart attack tearing that thing apart and making it a new beast But it would cost quite a bit to fly Mrbob out to your area for 1calibration, but still hes one of the best when it comes to CRT's


I would not have a heart attack! I would have a love fest! I sincerely love working all day on these beasts and coming up with the final result finally, late at night if need be. It's my art form, and incredibly gratifying.

The only thing I don't like is if it is sunny outside and I am spending my entire day inside under darkened conditions!


Anyone who can get 3 or more people together for my services can fly me out and have the travel expenses be entirely reasonable. And if you count the number of just optics cleanings that can be done in a day or 2 - many - that could increase the customer base plenty! Anyone who owns a CRT RPTV needs optics cleanings every couple of years minimum, and it's only travel plus $150 for the regular optics cleaning, even if no cals are requested from those owners who only have their optics cleaned.

The more the merrier. And less and less expensive on the participants, as the numbers increase.

I fly out of OAK.


Mr Bob
post #159 of 12298
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oktoberrust11 View Post

Mr. Bob, this thread has inspired me to look into calibrating my Toshiba 57H81. I think this is year 5 or 6 for this set. I've never had a professional calibration, only me venturing into the service menu from time to time. I'd like to set up a professional calibration and cleaning. I think there was a thread a while back with a list of ISF'ers in different parts of the country - anyone know where that is? Or can one be recommended in the Metro Detroit area?

Thanks,
Matt

Also, does anyone know if the protective screen can be removed on my set? The glare really can be a problem at times.


See my last post.

The only glarescreen I have ever seen that could not be removed was one series of the 40" Tosh, where it was glued in place. All others can be removed, and that is part of the extras I offer.


Mr Bob
post #160 of 12298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

I call that the "window-slat effect", and is exactly the same reason I like my upconverting 480->1080i LiteOn DVDP! What's highly visible in 480 is next to invisible in 1080.


Mr Bob

Bob,

Can you explain the "window-slat effect" and the DVDP a bit further?

I have a Sony CRT RPTV (KP-57WS520) and each input/scanrate was very well calibrated and ISF'd. I've tried a variety of players and yes, 480p is a bit sharper with all of the upconverting players I've tried (even the Denon 3910 and Toshiba HD-A1). However, resolution is usually slightly better with upconverting at 1080i...based on Avia 100 and 200 mhz patterns.

For me, it's picking my poison; slightly less sharper image or scanlines. Everything else "image-wise" seems to be equal.
post #161 of 12298
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by weinstro View Post

For CRT technology, it seems to me that this is really a question of whether the DVD or the TV's circuitry is superior at converting the signal to analog.

This is similar to the question of using a digital or analog output of a CD player to a home theater receiver.

For a fixed pixel display, HDMI should look superior, since you avoid extra digital-analog-digital conversions.

Regards,

Rob


You also avoid extraneous d/a conversions by using component out to component in.


Mr Bob
post #162 of 12298
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Bob,

Can you explain the "window-slat effect" and the DVDP a bit further?


It's when the focus and convergence are so sharply dialed in that you can see the horizontal shadows between the scanlines.

Like looking thru horizontal blinds, on a window. Obvious on 480 (REALLY obvious on 480i SD during vertical panning and when movie credits roll) but 2.5 times harder to see on 1080i.


Mr Bob
post #163 of 12298
[quote=DavidHir]I have a Sony 57" CRT RPTV (KP-57WS520)..their last model. I purchased it in December of 2004. I've had it fully tweaked and ISF calibrated....and it looks fantastic.

I have a Sony 57" KDP-57WS655 CRT RPTV, I purchased it around March 05. I think its a great TV set. It has internal ATSC/QAM tuners, optical output, 2 component inputs, 1 hdmi input. (as well as 3 S-Video/composite inputs). so far myself, 5 kids and wife have all enjoyed the new set very much.

currently sd-480i source material looks like arse in my eyes but i will live with it. however for DVD viewing i would like to upgrade to an upconvert DVD player. (until the blu-ray / hd-dvd thing settles) i figure and upconvert player would offer better pq then the $30 COBY 480p econo-player i have now. specifically i want to get one of the Sony players so i can use one remote for the whole system. (my receiver is a Sony STRDE698). from reading earlier posts should i be concearned with a loss of pq due to the hdmi input on a non fixed pixel display.

i recognize that you avs'rs maintain an idea of a certain quality level, so give a me your opinion on the core parts of my starter system.

a more detailed description of my system is here
post #164 of 12298
[quote=BOBBY DIGITAL]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I have a Sony 57" CRT RPTV (KP-57WS520)..their last model. I purchased it in December of 2004. I've had it fully tweaked and ISF calibrated....and it looks fantastic.

I have a Sony 57" KDP-57WS655 CRT RPTV, I purchased it around March 05. I think its a great TV set. It has internal ATSC/QAM tuners, optical output, 2 component inputs, 1 hdmi input. (as well as 3 S-Video/composite inputs). so far myself, 5 kids and wife have all enjoyed the new set very much.

currently sd-480i source material looks like arse in my eyes but i will live with it. however for DVD viewing i would like to upgrade to an upconvert DVD player. (until the blu-ray / hd-dvd thing settles) i figure and upconvert player would offer better pq then the $30 COBY 480p econo-player i have now. specifically i want to get one of the Sony players so i can use one remote for the whole system. (my receiver is a Sony STRDE698). from reading earlier posts should i be concearned with a loss of pq due to the hdmi input on a non fixed pixel display.

i recognize that you avs'rs maintain an idea of a certain quality level, so give a me your opinion on the core parts of my starter system.

a more detailed description of my system is here

I would strongly recommend getting your display fully calibrated and ISF'd from someone with a strong reputation.

At minimum, buy Avia or DVE to calibrate user settings.

As far as DVD player, I would recommend the Oppo 971 as it probably gives the best bang for the buck as is a great alternative until the HD war settles down or at least until 2G players arrive. I've tried out A LOT of upscaling dvd players with this display, including the Sony H75, 3100ES, 9100ES, Denon 3910, Panasonic XP-30 (480p only), and Toshiba HD-A1. While some of these may be a little better than the Oppo, for the money, it cannot be beaten. Some of these other players provide a bit sharper image, but I have yet to see a player offer a more "filmlike," non-processed image than the Oppo.
post #165 of 12298
This is a great thread. I often get the itch for a more modern display, especially for a Plasma or one the Sony SXRD's. But my 47" Panny CRT still has a great picture.
post #166 of 12298
Thread Starter 
[quote=DavidHir]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBBY DIGITAL View Post


I would strongly recommend getting your display fully calibrated and ISF'd from someone with a strong reputation.

At minimum, buy Avia or DVE to calibrate user settings.

As far as DVD player, I would recommend the Oppo 971 as it probably gives the best bang for the buck as is a great alternative until the HD war settles down or at least until 2G players arrive. I've tried out A LOT of upscaling dvd players with this display, including the Sony H75, 3100ES, 9100ES, Denon 3910, Panasonic XP-30 (480p only), and Toshiba HD-A1. While some of these may be a little better than the Oppo, for the money, it cannot be beaten. Some of these other players provide a bit sharper image, but I have yet to see a player offer a more "filmlike," non-processed image than the Oppo.


Does it - do these - OP 1080i on component? Or just HDMI?


Mr Bob
post #167 of 12298
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Sutliff View Post

This is a great thread. I often get the itch for a more modern display, especially for a Plasma or one the Sony SXRD's. But my 47" Panny CRT still has a great picture.


So does my 65" Panny. Out of the box they need a lot of work and their pic is only so-so, but once fully calibrated there's not a better CRT RPTV pic out there than the Panny's.


Mr Bob
post #168 of 12298
Bob,

Don't the newer Sony CRT RPTV use Panasonic CRTs?
post #169 of 12298
[quote=Mr Bob]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post



Does it - do these - OP 1080i on component? Or just HDMI?


Mr Bob

The Oppo upscales only at DVI/HDMI.
post #170 of 12298
[quote=DavidHir]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post


The Oppo upscales only at DVI/HDMI.

so in your opinion it would be better than any of sony options in regards to upscale through HDMI.
post #171 of 12298
The DV-970HD upscales through component to 1080i per the specs at the Oppo site, unfortunately, the disclaimer is that if the DVD is CSS encrypted, it will default to 480 mode.
Guess one would need some sort of firmware hack, hmmm..
post #172 of 12298
[quote=BOBBY DIGITAL]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post


so in your opinion it would be better than any of sony options in regards to upscale through HDMI.

The Faroudja deinterlacer in the Oppo 971 is much better than Sony's...this is easily seen on HQV test patterns...and to a degree in "real world" viewing. In addition, the 3100ES and 9100ES do suffer from some YC Delay and from some excessive high frequency noise (or edge enhancement which I could not remove) - none of which the Oppo suffers.

The two above mentioned Sony players do have a slightly sharper image. However, I still prefer the overall image of the Oppo. As I mentioned before, the Oppo has a very analog or filmlike look to it - very natural, detailed, yet smooth looking. The Sony players are still good players, but I think the Oppo is superior, overall. And, once you factor in the price of the Oppo compared to the Sony ES models, it's a no-brainer to me. By the way, the Sony ES players are vastly superior to the lower model Sony H75. Also, the 3100ES and 9100ES almost have an identical image (they both share the same deinterlacer and HDMI transmitter). If you get the 9100ES over the 3100ES, you are spending the extra $500 for better audio, build quality, and flagship status. If you do insist on buying a Sony, I suggest the 3100ES -- it's the best Sony player for price and performance (very slow loading time if that bothers you-- also the remote has a slow response, as well).

One thing to note about the Oppo --- I have seen hints of macroblocking on discs which has some compression issues. This is due to the Faroudja chip. Proper calibration eliminates almost all of it, however. Anytime I start to see it....I also see it on different players.
post #173 of 12298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Bailey View Post

The DV-970HD upscales through component to 1080i per the specs at the Oppo site, unfortunately, the disclaimer is that if the DVD is CSS encrypted, it will default to 480 mode.
Guess one would need some sort of firmware hack, hmmm..

Backing up your commercial DVDs are another option.
post #174 of 12298
Right now, my 61UWX10B is in for a very major overhaul. Every board in my set is being replaced with all original Hitachi parts under my warranty plan. If all goes well, I should have my CRT for at least 8 to 10 years, with tender loving care.

Even though I have a JVC LT40FH96 which has excellent picture quality, I still prefer the 61" CRT for watching DVD movies. The picture is true to life and while playing on my HD-A1, the picture is absolutely stunning.

Nothing can even come close to a fine tuned CRT.

Randy
post #175 of 12298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

HD SHOT and displayed movies are better than film because of the lack of scratch marks, dots in the corner during reel changes, paled-out/aged film copy transfers...

In the industry, we call them cigarette burns.
post #176 of 12298
But, just one quick question...

What are the choices by brand and model if you want to buy a CRT RPTV that is in production today? I've seen lots of recommendations for ones that are out of production...

I am a happy owner of a 2001 Toshiba 56H80, but I'm wondering what my choices are if I would want to get a CRT RPTV with HDMI.

Thanks,
Kent
post #177 of 12298
Pretty much all of the current production CRT RPTVs have a DVI or HDMI input.
post #178 of 12298
lol... poorly phrased question...

How about this.... what brands/models of CRT RPTVs are still in production?
post #179 of 12298
post #180 of 12298
Do any B&Ms sell the Mits anymore? I only see the Hitachi.
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