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Don't dump your CRT RPTV! - Page 73

post #2161 of 11731
On my convergence board, there is a damaged part. I can't tell if it is melted or not, but the damage is over the part number. The part is in the slot on the board labled "F/S Control" and it has this number printed on the board
"RR402S." Any clue as to what this part is, or what it controls? It is a small gray cube, that has three points attached to the board. about 1/4" square.
post #2162 of 11731
Can you snap a picture???
post #2163 of 11731
I have a 51F510 and imo the picture isnt as sharp as I would like. I don't play around in the service menu very much, and if I do I always write down the prior number but when I change the tilt (forget the official name) to all red, it looks crystal clear, or all green it looks crystal clear, but when I have the tint all blue, its much more blurry. Is that normal? Even when doing a magic focus convergence the reds look great, the greens as well, but the blue indicators are more blurry.

Does that mean I need to get the blue lens cleaned or is the blue by nature more blurry?
post #2164 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Now that you mention it, the last time I did the auto MF was before I knew how to dim the ultra-brightness of all the grid lines.
With properly dim - and thus thin and average light-leveled - grid lines for convergence, the automated version may do just fine.

It still uses only nine points. And I don't think the nine sensors know or care how "thin" the lines are. I can't imagine the results would be consistently better than user with 117. A lot easier, though.
Anyone try both to compare?
post #2165 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1080pee View Post

Does that mean I need to get the blue lens cleaned or is the blue by nature more blurry?

Blue is "more blurry" by nature. Actually, "defocused" is the correct term. But yours may have become more defocused than it should be. Mechanical and electrostatic focus adjustments should be possible on your set (easy enough on my 57F59, but I can't give you exact directions for yours).
By now all your lenses would probably benefit from cleaning, but that's a bigger project and, since red and green look good to you, may be better saving for later. Or get one of the calibrators here over and get everything done at once (and be prepared to be amazed).
post #2166 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Anyone try both to compare?

Tried it myself. Magic Focus was a disaster. Anyone else foolish enough to try?
Michael
post #2167 of 11731
Thanks for your help. Just gotta see what I will be doing come this summer before I get it calibrated but I wait eagerly
post #2168 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Just the lenses, 4 simple Philips screws each. UEC can prolly get replacements for you, from sets that have had to be given up on, in their refurb process.

Mr Bob

Hi Mr Bob,

Here are two pictures. It's tough to make out (you might need to turn up the contrast in these pictures) but the fine, hairline scratches are definitely there Note that I did NOT do this, they came this way from UEC.

Since I bought this TV 2 years ago I'll need to buy the parts. Do you think they will be relatively cheap?
LL
LL
post #2169 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFoote View Post

...hairline scratches are definitely there

They make sprays for "fixing" scratches in plastic glasses. I don't know how (or how well) they work, but that might be worth a try. Thoughts, anyone?
And if the lenses are that easy to remove, wouldn't it be easier to clean them by taking them out?
post #2170 of 11731
Mr. Bob you were right my camera lens had a smear on it..
post #2171 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by BFJ 96 View Post

Mr. Bob you were right

He usually is, just don't tell him or he'll get a big head about it.
post #2172 of 11731
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

Guys, I had my 65" Mits ISF'ed back in 2003 I believe...since then its gone from being my Primary Display to my secondary display that I really only game, or watch SD DVD on from time to time. I watch some HD on it, but not much.

At the time the goo that holds the lenses glued was broken off so each lens could be re-focused.

Mit does not use goo for immobilizing the focus. It uses black felt duvetyne tape on most HDreadys, and wingnuts on some of the 73" models.

If you are playing with anything that involves dried goo, you must be in the set underneath, at the CRT necks under the panel at the speaker grill. In which case you are playing either with centering magnet rings or astigmatism correction magnet rings.

Quote:


Now, I no longer mess around in the system menus...I've got overscan where I need it for HD and SD sources, and while my focus suffers a bit in the corners I accept it for having a better overscan on my HD input (so HD games dont crop much).

However lately I seem to have to converge a little more often than I used to ....and I'm wondering if a re-focus is required, but I've never done that.

The focusing seldom changes. Overscan reduction is a great enhancement to your pix, but causes copious errors that need to be corrected, in the geometry and convergence. Not the focus, which stays the same.

Unless you are using the shimming of the CRT array technique rather than totally the sm registers technique. If you do it by shimming the CRT array forward/upward towards the mirror, then of course the focusing needs to be redone. If the regular sm registers only method, not.


Quote:


Does anyone know if on the Mits sets from the early 2000's (mine is a 65807, the base model 65" from 2001) all you need to do to adjust focus on the lenses is twist the top part of the lenses? It was the one step I didn't see him do during the ISF :P

Yes, but to do it right, you gotta de-stick the duvetyne tape, do the focusing, and put that tape back against the plastic surfaces of what moves and what doesn't move. I use a long, thin screwdriver shank to gently de-roll the tape off, so I can re-use it again after refocusing.

If you try to change the focus with the tape still stuck on there, it will just tow it back to its original position afterwards, even if that takes a few minutes.

I recommend the Cantilever Technique for optical focusing. Always mark your starting point before moving anything in there.


Quote:


Also here's kind of a chuckle, I learned how to save convergence to the system memory, so every time I do a factory reset the convergence is supposed to go back to my original settings that I saved in there. Trouble is, every time I do, either the convergence has changed or my original settings never stuck.

I hope you are doing it in sm. I know there is a way to do it in user, but have no experience on that from which to answer your question.

Using sm, your settings would stick every time, and Factory Reset in user menu would then be your settings, in full.

Quote:


Is this a normal thing for a set thats going on 8 years old? Since I mostly play games on it now (and no burn in to be found, I was so worried in the beginning!) sometimes for 8+ hours at a time, I do notice misconvergence and focus issues a bit more than I would on, say, film...

Too bad you're not using it for HD. Fully cleaned and dialed in, it would still kick ass over anything that is 720p out there, and lots of the 1080p stuff.

Since it's been a few years since you had the optics cleaned, they are definitely dirty again, and in need of professional grade cleaning. Esp. if you are using it for 8 hours a day.

If your calibrator was just a typical ISF calibrator with little or no experience in CRT tech, your optics have prolly never been cleaned at all. If not, then the before and after difference you'd see re. optics cleaning would be staggering, esp. at its present age and daily usage.


Mr Bob
post #2173 of 11731
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by medmike View Post

Just checking back with this thread. Mr Bob, after your reply, I re-did my optics cleaning of the Sony by taking off all three lenses and just as you said, bottom optics had saw dust laying in them and underside of lenses were smudged. I uses the tried and true Sprayway with microfiber/optics cloth. I also took off the screen and cleaned the mirror which was hazy. Now everything is bright as the day she was born!
I did elec/mech focus/convergance, etc. Great picture now. I do have an issue with my top right screen not having tight convergance. Cannot get it tight with fine adj. Looks like the grids have a little pin-cushion warp in that area of screen. Could setting up grids using sm coarse adj (I believe in "PJE" under GRN vert/horz/skew/pincsh etc. then with red, and blue) then fine improve this?

Much thanks and as always, thanks for advise.

ps. I now find myself staring at that part of the screen all day to catch the green tinge with objects on white backround. I'm obsessed!

I have never had to zero out the points on a Sony, but have done it numerous times on Mit.

To truly have a handle on what is happening with your Sony and how to remedy your sit, I would have to be there playing with it.


Mr Bob
post #2174 of 11731
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by montypythizzle View Post

Is this a good set?
http://chambana.craigslist.org/ele/483497379.html
He said he was willing to take 250.
He said sometimes it takes some time to warm up, and said there was shadowing (need convergence touched up, or lenses cleaned?) on images.

Any repairs needed would up the ante quite a bit, over asking price.

If you can get away with simply recalibrating the convergence and the rest of what it needs, yes it's a good deal.

If any of the points stick on any CRT set, where the rest of the points move just fine, then repairs are needed. If all points are responsive, just recalibrating it accurately should be all that is necessary.


Mr Bob
post #2175 of 11731
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

I read the tutorial and I agree it is well done. I have a question. Are there sockets for these IC chips so that once removed, we can solder in a socket for the IC chips? Much easier to replace when needed and may be easier to cool.

Jim


Have never seen any, but that's a great idea.

They usually solder them in because sometimes sockets eventually get prone to bad connecting in there, causing more heat.

But seeing as how the heat they experience comes from their usage rather than how they are connected when they are soldered, it may be a wash.

Heat from conv ICs can be massively exacerbated by the point sys fighting the coarse sys in there. Zeroing points, altering the coarse accordingly, then redoing the points just as trim rather than as central positioning agents, can cause the ICs to run a lot cooler.

I wish Mit would learn that. You would not believe how high the numbers have been on some of the Mit point systems I have calibrated, and sometimes on the coarse sys's as well!

Would make my job a lot easier, as I have to correct those high point numbers anytime I run across them.


Mr Bob
post #2176 of 11731
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFoote View Post

Hi Mr Bob,

Here are two pictures. It's tough to make out (you might need to turn up the contrast in these pictures) but the fine, hairline scratches are definitely there Note that I did NOT do this, they came this way from UEC.

Since I bought this TV 2 years ago I'll need to buy the parts. Do you think they will be relatively cheap?

Yup, somebody used VERY crappy optics cleaning technique on your lenses. Such damage is permanent. I have seen even worse on the CRT coolant covers down below.

UEC prolly has them lying around for your model and would send them to you free of charge if you bend the right ear over there.


Mr Bob
post #2177 of 11731
Pics of my 5159A.



post #2178 of 11731
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

He usually is, just don't tell him or he'll get a big head about it.

Hey! I resemble that!





Mr Bob
post #2179 of 11731
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

They make sprays for "fixing" scratches in plastic glasses. I don't know how (or how well) they work, but that might be worth a try. Thoughts, anyone?

You might also try using a little oil smeared on them, or just touched into the scratches themselves -

Quote:


And if the lenses are that easy to remove, wouldn't it be easier to clean them by taking them out?

No. Not unless you need to get underneath them to get to their rears or to the coolant covers.


Mr Bob
post #2180 of 11731
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordcloud View Post

Pics of my 5159A.




Awesome!


Mr Bob
post #2181 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Awesome!


Mr Bob

Thank you! Although, it's nowhere near the FP CRT chots, how in the hell do they take such good shots anyway?! But I'm trying. There is a lot more color on screen, and it is exponentially sharper in person as well. I'd love to see some shots of other CRT sets.
post #2182 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Mit does not use goo for immobilizing the focus. It uses black felt duvetyne tape on most HDreadys, and wingnuts on some of the 73" models.

Well I took the handfulls of what looked like solidified glue or sealant (Greyish in color, like hardened merangue) to the trash when handed to me by the ISF tech working on the set. I assumed they locked the focus rings, but it must have been what you were referring to below, some other aspect of the guns.

Quote:


If you are playing with anything that involves dried goo, you must be in the set underneath, at the CRT necks under the panel at the speaker grill. In which case you are playing either with centering magnet rings or astigmatism correction magnet rings.

Ok, that makes sense since there was was much adjustment going on at the time on the guns themselves.

Quote:


The focusing seldom changes. Overscan reduction is a great enhancement to your pix, but causes copious errors that need to be corrected, in the geometry and convergence. Not the focus, which stays the same.

Then I likely do not need to touch the focus if it doesn't change that much, but I would like to know how to change it...you know, just to see if I can improve it just a wee bit. But yes, I did have to do much work in the geometry (adjusting fine green so the other guns followed suit). Its not perfect, but its close enough for my tastes. The only problem now is that I can't get convergence spot on in the corners, but I live with that.

Quote:


Unless you are using the shimming of the CRT array technique rather than totally the sm registers technique. If you do it by shimming the CRT array forward/upward towards the mirror, then of course the focusing needs to be redone. If the regular sm registers only method, not.

Ok I know thats english because I can read the words, but I can't comprehend it Anyhow I'm not messing with anything at this point in time.

Quote:


Yes, but to do it right, you gotta de-stick the duvetyne tape, do the focusing, and put that tape back against the plastic surfaces of what moves and what doesn't move. I use a long, thin screwdriver shank to gently de-roll the tape off, so I can re-use it again after refocusing.

Ok, now this tape (assuming its still in there) is this on the plastic rings at the top of the gun closest to the mirror? Is that the part I'd turn? I see other levers on the stem of the gun that I know not to mess with....

Quote:


I hope you are doing it in sm. I know there is a way to do it in user, but have no experience on that from which to answer your question.

Right, in SM there was a way on those models to do a fine convergence..then save it as the default factory reset.

Quote:


Too bad you're not using it for HD. Fully cleaned and dialed in, it would still kick ass over anything that is 720p out there, and lots of the 1080p stuff.

Its nice, but its small I grew too accustomed to DLP front Projection.

Quote:


Since it's been a few years since you had the optics cleaned, they are definitely dirty again, and in need of professional grade cleaning. Esp. if you are using it for 8 hours a day.

I imagine.....Sears wanted to send guys out to clean the set and I always refused, figuring some dude would come out and monkey around with the set doing god knows what. Are there guides for CRT cleaning out there?
Or is this something that needs to be done by ISF tech and calibrators.

Quote:


If your calibrator was just a typical ISF calibrator with little or no experience in CRT tech, your optics have prolly never been cleaned at all. If not, then the before and after difference you'd see re. optics cleaning would be staggering, esp. at its present age and daily usage.

Chuck..someone, a regular over at HomeTheatreSpot back in the day, he was a very nice guy, spent many hours at the house, significant improvement in picture when he was done, using test generators, reprogrammed out the red push in the color decoder, etc. not sure if he did or did not clean the optics.

I should say he did alot of adjusting...and then I went back months later and tweaked the geometry (had a few speed bumps I worked out) and overscan and so forth. With videogames at 1080i I had to adjust the overscan a little more extreme, and had to re-do geometry and convergence again, but its been awhile since I've messed around in the service menus...but I was always careful when I was in there.
post #2183 of 11731
The resistors that go to the IC's are still good, someone told me that this is a bad thing. Will replacing the STK's fix my convergence prolem, or will it just be a waste of money? Just wanting to know what I should do, change them out, or buy a new TV. Hate to spend the money to change them out, if it isn't going to fix the problem.
post #2184 of 11731
Well, I was pretty happy with my Toshiba 51H93 when I first bought it. Unfortunately, it had a problem that techs couldn't fix and Toshiba ended up replacing my original set with a 51H94 in May 2005, just about 2.5 years ago. Now, I notice pretty significant burn in on the CRTs from the black pillar bars on my local OTA digital broadcasts. I am very dissapointed by this fact. Apparently Toshiba used some pretty short life CRTs on this set because I carefully set up the TV using AVIA, it has never been in "torch mode" since it came out of the box, and for the most part, I've only watched full screen material. Pillar boxed material probably counted to less than 1/3 of the average viewing on this TV.

The burn in is most noticable on lighter images, sky, fog, etc and its really driving me crazy to the point that I'm going to dump my CRT set! I know that replacing the CRTs would cost more than the set is worth, so I'll probably just sell it to someone who is less critical.

Looks like I'll be moving to a fixed pixel display, probably plasma. After watching the plasma in our bedroom for the last 6 months, the CRT set looks pretty weak I must say.
post #2185 of 11731
Regarding what looks like a burn-in symptom on my Mits 48311, is it possible that the dust accumulation could be more on the areas of the CRTs that are always "active" (i.e., the space between the pillar bars)?

At some point I intend to do some lens and mirror cleaning on my unit, but I have not felt comfortable trying to pry the screen out. Any suggestions on how-to and what-to-expect would be appreciated.

Some folks have said that the owner's manual says how-to but I have not seen that described in a way the directly matches my set.
post #2186 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwebb1970 View Post

edit: as of 8:00am PST today (11/19/07), uecweb has both the 51" & 57" F59s for CRAZY CHEAP!!!! Get 'em before they're gone!

As of 5pm central time they have 1 less 57" for sale!
post #2187 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBSS View Post

As of 5pm central time they have 1 less 57" for sale!

Congrats! Enjoy it.
post #2188 of 11731
I have several Hitachi RPTV's available for sale...

51F59
57F59
65F59

All BRAND NEW w/ 1 year Hitachi factory warranty

VERY LIMITED STOCK!

PM for pricing and availability.
post #2189 of 11731
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by billbillw View Post

Well, I was pretty happy with my Toshiba 51H93 when I first bought it. Unfortunately, it had a problem that techs couldn't fix and Toshiba ended up replacing my original set with a 51H94 in May 2005, just about 2.5 years ago. Now, I notice pretty significant burn in on the CRTs from the black pillar bars on my local OTA digital broadcasts. I am very dissapointed by this fact. Apparently Toshiba used some pretty short life CRTs on this set because I carefully set up the TV using AVIA, it has never been in "torch mode" since it came out of the box, and for the most part, I've only watched full screen material. Pillar boxed material probably counted to less than 1/3 of the average viewing on this TV.

The burn in is most noticable on lighter images, sky, fog, etc and its really driving me crazy to the point that I'm going to dump my CRT set! I know that replacing the CRTs would cost more than the set is worth, so I'll probably just sell it to someone who is less critical.

Looks like I'll be moving to a fixed pixel display, probably plasma. After watching the plasma in our bedroom for the last 6 months, the CRT set looks pretty weak I must say.

Plasmas get screenburn also.

If your set looks weak in comparison, it needs optics cleaning.

Burning in the sides to match the middle section is an option.

Whenever you have to have sidebars up on ANY phosphor based unit - CRT, plasma, SED - ALWAYS turn DOWN the contrast to maybe half of normal.


Mr Bob
post #2190 of 11731
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmapp View Post

The resistors that go to the IC's are still good, someone told me that this is a bad thing. Will replacing the STK's fix my convergence prolem, or will it just be a waste of money? Just wanting to know what I should do, change them out, or buy a new TV. Hate to spend the money to change them out, if it isn't going to fix the problem.

The resistors being still good is a good thing. Usually they are not burned up, but sometimes are.

IC replacement is a routine op that is needed on most CRT sets at sometime in their lives. Just do it. Would you go out looking for a new car if your engine's thermostat eventually crapped out on you?

No. You'd get it replaced.

Same thing here.


Mr Bob
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