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Don't dump your CRT RPTV! - Page 166

post #4951 of 11731
"She" is Phoebe Cates
post #4952 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by iramack View Post



Is she 12 or 13 years old?????? OK maybe 15 tops!! But definitely jail bait!!


Are you high??? Phoebe was 18 as I was...My wife looked at me when I admired her in a topless shot and called me sick...I said WTF!!! We were and still are the same age...Just as I admired my wife when she was (much) younger and still enjoy seeing her pictures does not make me any sicker than seeing Phoebe...

Now if today you look at a girl that is 18 and you are old enough to be her father...Well now there is some substinence to the "your sick" statement...
post #4953 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

The HSTA movement would work fine for the centering of red and blue. The one thing you don't want to change in the xx59 coarse sm is the HWID. Do that ONLY in the xx57 sm Defl Jung, NOT the xx59 coarse sm, where it messes with the hor linearity if you zero it, which would be optimal. But not worth the change, just for the purpose of zeroing things out in the conv sm.

But for HSTA, the diff between 0 and +-50 is nominal and would work just fine, and would not require moving the centering mags on red and blue. You could leave them alone. I did. But if you're still being maxed out onto one side because of their factory aiming of red and blue, that won't be enough.

Yes, I think they used the same bulkhead on the 65 and 73, both using the 9" guns, but with different size screens. As such you get shafted on the 65! My 73 had no problems.

Perhaps all you really need to do is add washers to the inside or outside set of bolts, where the red and blue anchor to the bulkhead, and alter their directionality that way, as long as each lens is directly mounted to the CRT itself. You don't need to loosen the springs holding the CRTs in, they stay intact even if you're changing out a tube. But if the lenses mount to the bulkhead from the top while the CRTs mount to the bulkhead from the bottom, it won't work, as the lens angle relative to the CRT face has to stay the same.

Of course don't alter the lens anchoring with this directional shimming, as you'd change the scheimplug; but I know you know that already, that's just for the onlookers here.



Stick strictly to the bolts holding the CRT in place, for that directional shimming. That should at least allow you to recenter the red and blue images mechanically, if doing so will allow the entire red and blue lens/CRT package to all be angled a little bit, together.

Question is, after you have done all that, is your current image footprint going to be so strong by now that it will then show, at the edges? Since your red and blue guns have been so offcenter all along since the thing was built, that's still a worry. If so, the whole thing's moot! First thing to do is check that out.


b

Mr Bob (or anyone else), can you put up a pic showing which bolts I would need to add the washers to? I was all ready to do the shimming on my 65813 when I read that part.
post #4954 of 11731
There is normally no need to bolt or screw the CRT frame down, I never did.
Just leave it sitting on the shims, if you need to move the TV to another location remove the shims and replace the original bolts for transport.


My favourites from the 80's where Risky Business and Ferris Bueller's Day Off, cant say I was ever a fan of the others.
post #4955 of 11731
For those who have young kids and a CRT RPTV... learn from my mistake.. get something to protect your screen NOW! A Sheet of Plexi glass or something to put in front of the screen while the children are present.

I thought I'd be ok with my little 2 year old. Well I was wrong... I woke up today and my wife told me my son had taken a Rock Band drum stick and smacked the TV twice... this is the result:





Last time I checked a new screen for my Hitachi 51F59A was $450 + $150 shipping... Anyone know where I could get a used screen?

The only thing positive that I can say is I'm glad it's a RPTV cuz if it was LCD I wouldn't be able to watch my TV at all...

Ryan
post #4956 of 11731
I have run across a zero hour KDP51WS655 and might have a lead on a KDP57WS655. Are these Sony sets any good? Does any one know what size the CRT's are in each? What would they have retailed for in "their day" and what would be a great price today?

I have a 9" Sony CRT front projector in the home theater so I know the amazing quality of CRT. Thanks for any help.

Ed
post #4957 of 11731
Thread Starter 
Phoebe Cates also has a surprisingly long history at IMDB.


b
post #4958 of 11731
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joikd View Post

Mr Bob (or anyone else), can you put up a pic showing which bolts I would need to add the washers to? I was all ready to do the shimming on my 65813 when I read that part.

I don't think you need to worry about washers at all. That was my point. The meager difference in throw distance covered by the shims is not enough to cause any noticeable visual changes in the scheimpflug, worthy of any realignment of that nature. It would take a lot of angling to change the scheimpflug enough to need realignment, and this shimming op does not involve that. Owen didn't do that on his, and his success with it speaks for itself.

Just shim it, recalibrate optical focus, geo and conv, and enjoy it from then on.


b
post #4959 of 11731
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

There is normally no need to bolt or screw the CRT frame down, I never did.
Just leave it sitting on the shims, if you need to move the TV to another location remove the shims and replace the original bolts for transport.


My favourites from the 80's where Risky Business and Ferris Bueller's Day Off, cant say I was ever a fan of the others.

The Hits evidently have a flat plane the array sits on, so of course anchoring it down would not be totally necessary.

But mine was mounted on an angle, and as such you need to anchor that, or it will slip and slide downward. Unless you simply use wedges to support it - doorstops, in my case - and leave them there.


b
post #4960 of 11731
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by |Tch0rT| View Post


Last time I checked a new screen for my Hitachi 51F59A was $450 + $150 shipping... Anyone know where I could get a used screen?

The only thing positive that I can say is I'm glad it's a RPTV cuz if it was LCD I wouldn't be able to watch my TV at all...

Ryan

Contact me directly and I'll get you into a state of the art high gain Mit lent from their CRT HDready line for far less $.

I have removed my glarescreen from my 65" Panny and would be glad to part with it -


b
post #4961 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

"She" is Phoebe Cates

And still around:
http://oscars.movies.yahoo.com/photo...nc#OmgPhoid=49
post #4962 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by joikd View Post

Mr Bob (or anyone else), can you put up a pic showing which bolts I would need to add the washers to? I was all ready to do the shimming on my 65813 when I read that part.


Thank goodness I didn't have go through all that when I shimmed. I'm just a DIY. I just shimmed the entire array upward and did optical focus. Everything looked fine afterwards.
post #4963 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

The shimming I have been doing has been level equally all around, which works perfectly. The angles involved don't need to change at all, the meager shim thickness involved doesn't really call for that.

Unless of course you have a heavy aging footprint on your guns by now, which WOULD require re-angling the red and blue guns, because changing the positioning of the raster on the tubes will reveal previously unbombarded phospors out at the sides, making those sides uneven in their light levels at those parts of the images. Haven't tackled trying that yet. One shimming op I did recently failed because of that, and because the 2 source sys's didn't have the same s/s centering on them. I had to restore it to the way it was before.

Is your blurriness caused by focusing or convergence? The 610s have great lenses that don't defocus out toward the edges, like cheaper lenses do. The 510s have scheimpflug error on the blue, but I have not seen center to edge focusing problems on the Elite series. They have always had excellent lenses on them, capable of the great pix I put up on page 103 of this thread.

The convergence in the viewable area can be aided by the points in the invisible areas outside the visible viewscreen area.


b

I opened up my TV again this weekend to see how easy the shimming would be. It doesn't appear as easy as the hitachi from Owen's pictures. Instead of the assembly resting on a even surface the pioneer is attached with screws vertically (see original image in post #4911). Therefore, it appears more work then I want to tackle. Plus with 9 years on my CRTs, I might be faced with the aging problem you described.

I think you are correct that my problem is with convergence and maybe even offscreen. I just learned from the pictures in the service manual how to best do the fine convergence by doing the vertical and horizontal centers then vertical right to left and horizontal top to bottom. Any more tips on correcting convergence if offscreen?

I also adjusted the vertical size. You can see from this image that overscan on top was about 10%.



After adjustment it was about 4%. Sorry it is a different image sample and it appears stretch to full screen instead of image above but the change does not appear to have upset any geometry that I can tell and convergence was not changed.

post #4964 of 11731
To really check on geometry on a 16:9 set you need to use a 16:9 pattern. the circles need to be a circle, the circle radius must be equal all the way around, and if the pattern has squares, the sides need to be the same length on all sides.

Download avshd-709 disk and use those patterns, or if you prefer AVIA or DVE disk, make sure you are using 16:9 patterns.
post #4965 of 11731
I am picking up a Pioneer Elite Pro-710hd this weekend. I have always been a fan of CRT displays. It is a non working set, but for the price I can take a chance.
I have been following these threads for awhile but never had reason to post until now.
We'll see what we have when I get it in shop.
Cheers,
Tony
post #4966 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by superleo View Post

Download avshd-709 disk and use those patterns, or if you prefer AVIA or DVE disk, make sure you are using 16:9 patterns.

Which is here, BTW:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496
post #4967 of 11731
With plasma on the way out as the news is going around saying...CRT is a GREAT investment even more so now...
post #4968 of 11731
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony V. View Post

I am picking up a Pioneer Elite Pro-710hd this weekend. I have always been a fan of CRT displays. It is a non working set, but for the price I can take a chance.
I have been following these threads for awhile but never had reason to post until now.
We'll see what we have when I get it in shop.
Cheers,
Tony

If it won't turn on, chances are the hinky factory conn's on the PS bd have taken out either the conv ICs or the defl bd. If it DOES turn on after having been cold for days or weeks, TURN IT OFF WITHIN 1 MINUTE. Do NOT allow it to get back to cruising temp again without the PS bd being resoldered correctly. These units were not designed to be operated by hinky solder conn's on PS bds, where huge spikes from those hinky conns will lightninig-bolt down into the set and take out other boards. The entire 510/61/710 series was poorly soldered on their PS boards, and they have been going down right and left for years, because of this. I have been saving as many as I can, which is dozens so far.

If it does turn on again and work properly, shut it down immediately, remove the PS bd and send it to me. Local yokels will only resolder what's bad at the time, will rightfully accept your $, then sometime further on the next set of bad conns will go out and you'll be back where you started. My resoldered boards never go out again.

There is a huge thread on this issue, that started 4 years ago and is still going strong. ANYBODY whose 510/610/710 - and many of the 520/620/720 series - has started up with intermittent sporadic events should read this thread, and should TURN THE SET OFF IMMEDIATELY, even if you're watching video on it right now. A catastrophic event may be about to happen, as it happens when these units are on, after they have warmed up. They are "thermals".

And keep it off until its PS bd has been properly resoldered.

DO NOT allow it back to cruising temp in this frail condition. Your set could get totalled.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...402397&page=58


b
post #4969 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

Thanks man, the video you are after is called Lights Camera Girls.

http://www.amazon.com/Lights-Camera-.../dp/B000FZEN44

It was also available in high bit rate Mpeg2 on DVHS, that's the version I have.

It's like Playboy magazine (without the crap) on 1080i video, pretty girls, classy photography,
highly recommended if you can find it anywhere.

I thing it's a HDNet production done by the people that do Bikini Destinations, same camera man anyway.

Got it. Thanks.
Now just have to replace the blue gun and I can really get to work.



Michael
post #4970 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Got it. Thanks.
Now just have to replace the blue gun and I can really get to work.

Michael

Michael, could you post a "GRAB"?

This way we can play with the picture to match color, sharpness, etc...

Thanks.
post #4971 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

If it won't turn on, chances are the hinky factory conn's on the PS bd have taken out either the conv ICs or the defl bd. If it DOES turn on after having been cold for days or weeks, TURN IT OFF WITHIN 1 MINUTE. Do NOT allow it to get back to cruising temp again without the PS bd being resoldered correctly. These units were not designed to be operated by hinky solder conn's on PS bds, where huge spikes from those hinky conns will lightninig-bolt down into the set and take out other boards. The entire 510/61/710 series was poorly soldered on their PS boards, and they have been going down right and left for years, because of this. I have been saving as many as I can, which is dozens so far.

If it does turn on again and work properly, shut it down immediately, remove the PS bd and send it to me. Local yokels will only resolder what's bad at the time, will rightfully accept your $, then sometime further on the next set of bad conns will go out and you'll be back where you started. My resoldered boards never go out again.

There is a huge thread on this issue, that started 4 years ago and is still going strong. ANYBODY whose 510/610/710 - and many of the 520/620/720 series - has started up with intermittent sporadic events should read this thread, and should TURN THE SET OFF IMMEDIATELY, even if you're watching video on it right now. A catastrophic event may be about to happen, as it happens when these units are on, after they have warmed up. They are "thermals".

And keep it off until its PS bd has been properly resoldered.

DO NOT allow it back to cruising temp in this frail condition. Your set could get totalled.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...402397&page=58


b

Bob, I noticed you did not include Pioneer's Elite PRO-730HD or HDi in this mix of poor soldering. Could you elaborate on the improvements Pioneer implemented on their last RPTV's? Also, I've been searching around for this particular model, and would like to know if you have any tips on what to look for to help insure I'm not just buying a pack of trouble. Thanks.
post #4972 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by superleo View Post

Michael, could you post a "GRAB"?

This way we can play with the picture to match color, sharpness, etc...

Thanks.

That's EASY. It's screenshots that're tough.
Enjoy.

post #4973 of 11731
Decided to follow the steps of a poster above and dust off the Pio 530 HDI. Watching Lou Dobbs and his Jacket appears to match the black bezel of the Pio.
post #4974 of 11731
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cajieboy View Post

Bob, I noticed you did not include Pioneer's Elite PRO-730HD or HDi in this mix of poor soldering. Could you elaborate on the improvements Pioneer implemented on their last RPTV's? Also, I've been searching around for this particular model, and would like to know if you have any tips on what to look for to help insure I'm not just buying a pack of trouble. Thanks.


The 730s were 2 years later, they didn't have any problems with the PS boards after this one lot of them, which covered the entire model year of the x10 series and into the x20 series, where a more solid board took over to end that model year without any of the incidents that plagued -are still plaguing - the x10 model year and into the x20 model year. That's why they ask for serial numbers when you're a servicer. To see how far along into the model year that set was.


One of the advantages of the x30s are the super nice 480->1080 upconverter they have built-in, which allows ANYTHING coming in at 480 to wind up at the screen as 1080i. It's excellent, and means you can skip the structural calibration on 480 of any x30 - no geometry, convergence or o'scan redux. Just do all that to the 1080i and you're done with the image structure.

There are also several registers in the green coarse conv section that were not in the green of the x10s or x20s, but were in the red and blue. This makes redoing the geometry on the x30s vastly simpler than on the x10/x20s.

Whenever you go looking for a used CRT RPTV, take along with you an all white pattern to check for screenburn.

Then inquire as to the usage. If it has low hours, you're in. If it was used as the family baby sitter at 16 hours a day, pass on it.

Then check the contrast setting. Not the Black Level, most settings on that are OK. But on contrast if they've cranked it up into the positive section, it becomes suspect. If they have put it all the way up at Torch Mode, pass on it.

Unless of course you only intend to use if for a year or 2 anyway and then buy new. In that case even the exceptions above would be valuable, at the right price.

If contrast is right in the middle at zero, where it should be, and has been viewed under normal usage only, like several hours a day, you're in. Properly cared for by you, you can expect at least another 3-5 years of a sizzling new-looking picture.


b
post #4975 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

That's EASY. It's screenshots that're tough.
Enjoy.

Thank you Michael, I'll post some shots on the Reference Material thread as time permits.
post #4976 of 11731
Just got my my pro720hd professionally calibrated last week, watched dark night. This will keep me out of the front projector forum for another year or until they improve black levels.
post #4977 of 11731
After owning my Mits for 2.5 years, I can easily see now why these sets have gone the way of the dinosaur. Many people who causually watch TV simply would not be willing to invest the time or money in getting a CRT callibrated by DIY or professional means respectively. Compared to the out of box picture quality of a digital set, there is no way a RP CRT on a showroom floor could compete. Calibrated, yes, but OOB, no. Many of today's digital sets only need a minor grayscale adjustment and that's it. I had to do optical focus, ES focus, shim, adjust grayscale, geometry, and peroidically clean the lens/mirror to maximize the quality of my set. Think of how much time that would take for somewhat who has never worked on a TV (like I have), or someone who is not technologically inclined. Between my intense work schedule, the research and procedural aspect of callibration took close to 1.5 to 2 years. The size issue is also a sticking point for many people; although I can less identify with these concerns. The reason RP CRT died is it's just asking owners too much to get a set which they paid 2000+ dollars for (at the time) and tack an additional 400+ dollars in order to unlock the sets true potential. What if you are in a rural area with no ISF certified callibrators? Flying someone in to callibrate your set is helluva expensive, and for casual TV viewers, borderline unreasonable. Yes, to an enthusiast, it is reasonable. I love my CRT and would not pay money to get a digital set and dump it, but I recognize the limitations that untimately caused the demise of CRT tech. Just being realistic, here.
post #4978 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by superleo View Post

Thank you Michael, I'll post some shots on the Reference Material thread as time permits.

Me, too. I've made (more) changes with Colleen's help. Checked my torture test scenes from Van Helsing and Tomb Raider and really liked the results.
New blue gun, then away we go. See you there.
I'll bring Colleen with me, too.
post #4979 of 11731
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss4vegita View Post

The reason RP CRT died is it's just asking owners too much to get a set which they paid 2000+ dollars for (at the time) and tack an additional 400+ dollars in order to unlock the sets true potential.

Sorry, but I have the same problem with the "new" technologies. Big bucks, pixels, motion blur, etc.
And, of course, I've ENJOYED (yes, really) fiddling around with my RPCRT. Another set would just be BORING.
But that's me, and you know how weird I am.
post #4980 of 11731
[quote=ss4vegita;15927657]
What if you are in a rural area with no ISF certified callibrators? Flying someone in to callibrate your set is helluva expensive, and for casual TV viewers, borderline unreasonable.

I live in a Rural Area where NO ONE is a ISF Calibrator. They pipe sunshine where I live.
I signed up for a "CraigR" Southern calibration tour thinking there was no way in Hell he would make it to my Rural Address once he realized where I actually lived.
He actually came to my house and professionally Calibrated all of my inputs to my WS-55517 Mitsubishi. He deep cleaned the optics. He also did the PCB-CRT Modification(ringing).
He spent over 6 hours calibrating this Television.
It was expensive but I was impressed bigtime with the PQ afterwards.
I had bought this Television for approx. $2000 dollars including a 5 year warranty in early 2006.
I now have approx. $2750 dollars in this set but the PQ Rivals a 5000 dollar Kurio IMO.

Was it worth it? TO ME EVERY DAMN PENNY!
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