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Don't dump your CRT RPTV! - Page 257

post #7681 of 11733
12/14/10 at 4:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthGTO View Post

I came back here with a Mitsubishi WS-65857 issue as well. The issue has already been pointed out in this thread (Post 7603 Page 254), but mine may be different. The TV goes on fine, but the picture is blue with no video. The menu does not come up, only the screen turns black. Simple OSD things work like volume, contrast brightness, input... The convergence is way out of whack. Same as in the video. Seems like the ICs may be bad but it may be something else (I have replaced ICs before).

Real confusing thing is I can get into the service menu, but in the convergence settings the values only go from -1 to 1 for all of the settings. Any idea what this may be caused by? Is this IC related?

Also, two of the guns have leaked coolant onto the board. There are a couple of spots on the signal board and the center board with the ICs.

Any help is appreciated. I do not want to throw money into new ICs if they are fine.




Or you could pick up a used DVDO VP30 on eBay for around $300 and get the full picture.

The bugaboo on the leaked coolant issue is that the Signal board is a 4 layer board, and once compromised has a really hard time coming back. Some techs have been known to do it, but most just shy away when that happens. I can always save the 2 layer boards, but even I shy away from the 4 layer boards.

The trick is that the inner 2 layers are not involved. If you know that you at least have a fighting chance.

If any of the coolant has seeped under any of the ICs tho, you're probably SOL.


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post #7682 of 11733
12/15/10 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Yes.
No, not without replacing the 3 guns.
Not likely.

Way overdue for a cleaning; other "tweaks" are optional. However, everything you do to make the picture better will only make the aging look worse.
Here's a fairly active thread of a slightly newer model:


And here's how my 57F59A looks:

You guys have some amazing shots posted in here. I'd settle to get their set just to look close to that!

I had an interesting experience calling Hitachi support in an attempt to see where I could get my hands on the parts. The guy wasn't able to find the 57G500 in the system anymore but gave me a parts distributor in the area. He advised that I was better off getting a new TV as the current one "wasn't worth anything" - he also said that if I did get my hands on the parts installing and configuring them "is like rocket science." I can appreciate the skill and difficulty that is required to calibrate and repair these TV's but I found the exchange rather amusing. Apparently trying to repair something is frowned upon.

Calling up the distributor, more of the same. Buying all 3 guns is about $250 each and I was told again that I'm better of buying a new set. While it seems parts alone may be close to $1,000, restoring something that is a known quantity is better than spending 3-4 thousand on new TV.

My assumption that installing the new guns IS that difficult and my last step is to attempt to find someone that can do that. For calibration purposes should I be looking for someone that can do "ISF" or is that too generic? Do they need specific CRT training of some sort?

Thanks for the help guys!
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post #7683 of 11733
12/15/10 at 4:27pm
I started to see some red lines on my Pro-730HDi. I never had this problem before unlike like other users and my set was upgraded with latest Pioneer kit in 2005 or 2006. Has anyone seen this problem to come back after the set was upgraded with the latest kit per this settlement http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pi...ndPendency.pdf ? I guess I can try swapping Video Amplification assembly with another gun to see if the problem follows it. I still have the paperwork the tech provided when he replaced them with voltage potentials for each CRT. I can readjust the voltage (if I'm not mistaken it was in 180V range). The lines appear to be most noticeable when I have red background or press info (perhaps 100IRE) on my Samsung OTA receiver. I may post some pictures tonight.
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post #7684 of 11733
12/15/10 at 5:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johtj View Post

Calling up the distributor, more of the same. Buying all 3 guns is about $250 each and I was told again that I'm better of buying a new set. While it seems parts alone may be close to $1,000, restoring something that is a known quantity is better than spending 3-4 thousand on new TV.

Guns for my 57F59A were about $100 each from a company recommended by Mr. Bob, I think it's this one:
http://vdcds.com/about/vdccorp.html
It's not rocket science. You need to be careful (high voltage, after all), you need the service manual, time, room, and Bob on the other end of the phone. That's how I did it, and there's no way a new set comes even close to what I have now.
But it's turned into a hobby of its own. If you'd rather not, fly Bob in and stay out of his way. Then you're good for another ten years.
But look at all the fun you'd be missing.
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post #7685 of 11733
12/15/10 at 6:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blambert007 View Post

Bob-

I will take you up on that. I'm at work now and would prefer to be in front of the set prior to troubleshooting. Do you have any suggestions as to what the issue is or anything i can do ahead of time? Thanks for the reply.

Contact me directly and we'll talk, no pm's please -

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post #7686 of 11733
12/16/10 at 9:39am
I'm here to mourn my separation from my trusty Mits WS-55513. The only thing wrong with it is the gradual decline in WAF to a now immeasurably low 0.0. Looks like I'm headed for a plasma, since the wife doesn't want the big box anymore. Sigh. I'm gonna miss the old girl.

I am happy to report, however, that this fine set is not headed to the recycler. It is headed over to a buddie's man cave where it will serve continued duty for some time.
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post #7687 of 11733
12/16/10 at 2:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by freqz() View Post

Sigh. I'm gonna miss the old girl.

That would be the wife, right?
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post #7688 of 11733
12/16/10 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lastbutnotleast View Post

that would be the wife, right?
:d

:d
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post #7689 of 11733
12/17/10 at 11:07am
If there's to be a Baltimore area tour by Mr. Bob I would definitely be interested in being on the list!
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post #7690 of 11733
12/17/10 at 12:50pm
So I am breaking down and finally picking up a blu ray player after work. I also need to order a component switcher. Anyone have any recomendations?
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post #7691 of 11733
12/17/10 at 5:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTrip View Post
If there's to be a Baltimore area tour by Mr. Bob I would definitely be interested in being on the list!

Great! While waiting on others to join up, send me your contact info.

Contact me directly, no pm's please -

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post #7692 of 11733
12/17/10 at 5:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdenichilo View Post
So I am breaking down and finally picking up a blu ray player after work. I also need to order a component switcher. Anyone have any recomendations?
Panasonic and Oppo BDP's, both deliver blacker than black out of component. Sony does not.

www.monoprice.com for the switcher.

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post #7693 of 11733
12/17/10 at 9:10pm
Im in Baltimore aswell and am interested in this tour. Hitachi f59 here.
Mr. Bob would you prefer an email or a phone call?
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post #7694 of 11733
12/18/10 at 1:19pm
Thread Starter 
Both!




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post #7695 of 11733
12/18/10 at 3:03pm
Hi all I have a question. My 46" panny plasma broke after 1 freakin year and I need a new TV. I was looking on Craigslist and noticed lots of people dumping their RPTV's for cheap between 100$-400$. I have the oppitunity to pick up a 55" mitsubishi RPTV in perfect working condition for 100$. Space is not an issue. The lady doesnt know the model# because she cant get behind the TV
My question is: Are all the mitsubishi RPTV's good and should I jump on it?
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post #7696 of 11733
12/18/10 at 3:20pm
Thread Starter 
Avoid the first year their HDreadys were out, the ones ending on 03, from back in 1999.

All their other models are fantastic.

Check for screenburn with an all white or all gray full-screen-filling pattern before you buy.

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post #7697 of 11733
12/18/10 at 3:49pm
My first post but I wanted to let folks know what a great job Mr. Bob did in calibrating my seven year old Pioneer Elite Pro 630HD. I had it calibrated right after I bought it but have had nothing done to it since. The picture had gotten dark and muddy with poor shadow detail and colors were just so so. I was thinking of getting a plasma and giving this to the kids but I wanted to try to save a really great TV. Well, all I can say is WOW. I do not recall the picture looking this good even when new. These old CRT's can be great if property calibrated.

Since he left (actually since before he left) I have been reviewing scenes from my BD and HDDVD collection as well as HD satellite channels. The colors pop, it is really great in dark scenes with renewed shadow detail as well as improved convergence, focus and geometry. Everything looked absolutely great. No need for a new TV now.

OK, back to lurking and enjoying my new Pioneer RPTV

Mark
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post #7698 of 11733
12/18/10 at 5:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmwilbur View Post

My first post but I wanted to let folks know what a great job Mr. Bob did in calibrating my seven year old Pioneer Elite Pro 630HD.

Thanks for your calibration and restoration report. I've included it in the projection (Post#1) list that's linked at the bottom of my post.
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post #7699 of 11733
12/18/10 at 5:27pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks, ht!

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post #7700 of 11733
12/18/10 at 5:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Thanks, ht!

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If I'd had a bigger living room, I would have bought one and needed to refurbish it about now.
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post #7701 of 11733
12/18/10 at 5:53pm
Thread Starter 
Remember the tighter your pic is, the closer you can sit to it. That has 2 benefits -

First, your room can be smaller, as you wind up sitting a lot closer to your set. Many of my owners of 58" sets are sitting 9' away when I arrive, and when I leave they are sitting 6' away, after my calibration on it. That's a half again increase in picture size, in a room that can now be only 2/3 the size it had to be before.

I could have my 73" Mit CRT in my big sun room, but instead I choose to have it in my much smaller living room, where I sit 9' back from it on satellite DVR material, or 8' away on bluray or HD DVD material. That still leaves 3' behind my couch, should I want to put a table there or something.

Second, it's no small thing that you get a naturally bigger picture to watch. Many owners are sitting 12' away from that same 65" Panasonic that I sit 8' away from over in my sun room.

Either way, a fully dialed in CRT lets you sit there and study the grain of the film used to shoot the movie you're watching. Sharp as a tack.

The net is burgeoning with ultra cheap CRT RPTVs, as people migrate to the thinner flat panels, many of which don't look half as good as a fully dialed in CRT. You can get an excellent-brand well treated pre-owned CRT for a song these days on ebay and craigslist, some of them for free!

Please come over and view my 73" sometime! You're just across the bay -

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post #7702 of 11733
12/18/10 at 6:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Remember the tighter your pic is, the closer you can sit to it. That has 2 benefits -

I'm into both of those benefits. I don't and never have controlled the "look" of our living room. Our 60" 8G Kuro hung on a wall and calibrated by UMR solved our domestic home theater in the living room problems.
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post #7703 of 11733
12/18/10 at 7:20pm
Thread Starter 
That 60" Kuro was nice. No idea why they stopped making them...

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post #7704 of 11733
12/18/10 at 8:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

That 60" Kuro was nice. No idea why they stopped making them...

After awhile the entire plasma TV marketplace pretty much became a war on who could sell them the cheapest, and Pioneer could not compete against the other brands with their low ball pricing. Financially Pioneer has been in rough shape for awhile, but they started losing even more money than before when they had to start selling their sets for lower prices.
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post #7705 of 11733
12/18/10 at 11:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post


After awhile the entire plasma TV marketplace pretty much became a war on who could sell them the cheapest, and Pioneer could not compete against the other brands with their low ball pricing. Financially Pioneer has been in rough shape for awhile, but they started losing even more money than before when they had to start selling their sets for lower prices.

Pretty much. Thank Walmart and target for shrinking retailers margins and making them seek the cheapest producer. Sad that quality has been publicly stricken from the market.
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post #7706 of 11733
12/19/10 at 12:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verge2 View Post

Pretty much. Thank Walmart and target for shrinking retailers margins and making them seek the cheapest producer. Sad that quality has been publicly stricken from the market.

With streaming, there's a good chance that it will be a long time before image and sound quality approach a Blu-ray disk again.
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post #7707 of 11733
12/19/10 at 1:22am
Thread Starter 
In the words of the immortal James Coburn to the still living but still immortal Mel Gibson, "Now that's just rude!"



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post #7708 of 11733
12/19/10 at 2:24am
Well to be honest, I think a good part of their failure to sell enough sets in a big enough amount to be profitable, also falls squarely on Pioneer themselves as well. Their TV set prices have pretty much always quite a bit higher than anyone else other than Runco. Yes their picture quality has almost always been at a very high level, and often times arguably rated a step or two better than their competition by many people, going back even to their RPTV days. But pricing on some of their Elite branded stuff like the original MSRP of $10K for the FHD1, their first 1080p plasma monitor. Was also so far out of the price range of a very lot of people that were buying plasma TV's.

Yeah I know as far as a TV set manufacturer, Pioneer is not anywhere as big as Panasonic or Samsung, and yes it was the first 1080p consumer plasma offered by any manufacturer. But at MSRP of $10K, they had to be dreaming or on some really wicked psychedelic drugs, if they thought a massive amount of people were going to be lining up to buy them at that kind of pricing.

By the time they wised up, and decided to try and find a way to cut cost but keep the quality up, and started to finalize plans for having Panasonic to manufacture their plasma panels for them to Pioneer's own specs. But unfortunately almost as fast as those plans were publicly announced, they also soon changed, and it appears that they decided it was already too late to turn any further manufacturing of TV around in a way to make a profit. So it looks like they basically decided instead of taking any more risks with trying to make plasmas at a profit, to just get out of the TV making business entirely.
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post #7709 of 11733
12/19/10 at 7:06am
We have to remember that some people are "first adopters", and some don't care how much it really cost, they just have to have it, such is the case for 3D today, and the companies know it and plan accordingly. I would venture to say that Pioneer probably had it that way, production of 5 to 7 years and out, and made their margins. Remember technology never stops, and as much as we like our RPCRT or the KURO sooner or later will be replaced, I just hope is later.
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post #7710 of 11733
12/19/10 at 9:18am
Thread Starter 
Yes, and early adopters are the ones who set the stage and pave the way. They are not the droves of consumers that have to happen for a model to really get off the ground and stay in the game.

Look at the first issue of the Mits HDreadys, the xxx03 series. It did not play 480p at all OOB and had to be changed in the service menu to do so, and if you wanted 480i back, you had to go in again to the sm and make changes again, to get it back. And hope you didn't screw something up in the process.

There were 2 opportunities to REALLY screw up your set in those first 2 years, left available in the service mode. E2 Reset, and RON, GON, BON and PON, which were the color isolators. The E2 Reset would vaporize all settings instilled by the factory - and say what you will about how much they can be improved with a calibration, not having them there at all was certain recipe for disaster, as repair techs typically know nothing about the calibration process and often made things worse than before within seconds of entry into the sm.

Since you could turn the RON GON BON and PON - Picture on/off - to OFF in the sm and then memorize it that way, it was possible to have your set show no picture AT ALL once back out of service mode. Getting that pic back then was a REAL PITA. I never let that happen, but there were horror stories on the net about it, from those who did.


So initial entries into a new field are sometimes not yet ready for prime time. The first Pioneer Elite HDready, the PRO 700, had a convergence menu that even some experienced calibrators got screwed up, if they didn't record all the register values ahead of time. The much simpler and more predictable point sys only came in for them in the following year, with the 510/610/710 line.

Sometimes the second year of a new thing like HD is better than the first year.

That said, the droves of the consumer are what make the steady $ for the manufacturers. The Joe Sixpacks of the world.

Once the Kuro came down in price it became quite popular. Too bad they could not sustain that.


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