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Don't dump your CRT RPTV! - Page 331

post #9901 of 11731
12/4/11 at 8:57am
My pioneer 710HD was calibrated 3 years ago and the power board resoldered 2 years ago. At the that same time, the wires to the component video one needed to be resoldered, too.

My picture works fine with VGA connected to a Fury 3. I get HD sound at 1080i and is awesome!

The symptoms of a power problem does not seem to be evident. Now both component video one and two are showing wavy lines of different colors without a picture.

Any advice would appreciated including a local soldering and calibrator if needed near St Louis, MO.

Thanks!
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post #9902 of 11731
12/4/11 at 9:35am
Thread Starter 
If your power board was not resoldered to the extent needed to totally remedy this problem, that would explain that problem reoccurring. All the solder connections except a few tiny predictable exceptions have to be resoldered on that board, which means 99% of the board. If anything less than 99% of the board was resoldered, you have your answer.

When I resolder a PS board from that series, I give you a lifetime warranty on that work. This would not have happened if I had resoldered it. If it did, you would be able to send it back to me and have it redone, no charge.

Sounds like you are having a recurrence, as disappearance of the picture is one of the symptoms of the bad soldering job Pioneer did on those PS boards as factory issue. I have remedied that one at least 7 times now, 100% of the time it has occurred in the boards I have been sent. Of all the many dozens I have resoldered over the last 7 years.

Or you may have a totally new problem, that needs to be addressed on its own. No telling right now, from the current data that you wrote in. But there's a fairly high likelihood of recurrence of new cold solder joints maturing and rearing their ugly heads, rather than this being a new problem.



Here's a copy of something I just put up on the master thread about that issue, which you can find here -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...402397&page=92



The latest, from last week. This board was an accident waiting to happen.

Notice the pair of solder joints about to go bad on the left of the pic at upside down "R218", to the left of the really bad one at "L219". Both ends of resistor 218 have the telltale "halo" around the leg that eventually turns into the very obvious one on the right at L219. While that pair of halos at R218 is looking very innocent right now, it's only a matter of time before the on/off-heat up/cool down-expand/contract cycles of normal operation cause those halos to get cut deeper and deeper into the solder they are in, until both of them "go 360" like the circle of complete non-connection that's so very garishly apparent in the one to the right at L219.

Plus the one just at the edge of the shadow and the one just below that, in the string of pin connections to the right:









And for those of you wondering if I am still doing this, yes I am. Keep sending me your boards and I'll keep your big screens working.

b
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post #9903 of 11731
12/4/11 at 9:45am
Thread Starter 
Today's batch, from the board in front of me right now -






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post #9904 of 11731
12/5/11 at 6:21am
I currently own a 57" Hitachi Ultravison CRT/RPT that is performing as new. It is capable of 1080i and runs on Directv HD receiver. Excellent picture. It does have DVI inputs. I can't wait any longer for a plasma and have a Panasonic TCP65GT30 on order to take its place of honor. The 57" Hitachi is still as new and will be retired to the bedroom. This thing is huge and heavy. In the bedroom I replaced an older 55" Hitach Ultravsion 480p (heavy and big) and basically couldn't give it away. I paid about $3500 for it 1998! Still works perfectly! I finally talked my aging mom and dad to take it. My dad loves it after viewing a 32" Sanyo with lines all over it.

I am having a little buyer's remorse I still love the Hitachi 57" incher. The Panasonic looked great in the store and had great reviews. Since they are not side by side it is tough to tell which on will perform better. I did look hard at Samsung LED 60" 7000 series. I seemed to like the plasma better. The LED was brighter but almost too bright and the jumpy motion of the legs of players in a football game was better than the older 60hz units but improved. The plasma was better in fast motion. I like my college football games! The colors on the plasma looked more natural as well. Did I make the right choice?
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post #9905 of 11731
12/5/11 at 6:29am
You're asking that question on a thread titled "Don't dump your CRT RPTV!" What do YOU think the answer is going to be?
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post #9906 of 11731
12/5/11 at 8:48am
Thread Starter 
I just added some stuff to post #9903 above, if you've already read it you might want to go over it again -

b
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post #9907 of 11731
12/5/11 at 8:54am
Thread Starter 
I just had a guy who works at KGO, our ABC affiliate here in the SF Bay Area over to look at my 65" Panny, since that set is the final CRT RPTV ever made that would do 1080i OR 720p, separately and independently of each other. ABC is of course 720p, as is Fox. He governs the live, on-air mixing board there, and I wanted him to consider owning a display that would truly bring in the channel he works at in its native 720p. He has seen all my YouTube videos, plus has read a smattering of this thread.

He currently has a 55" Mit CRT and a Mit DLP, and while watching my set he couldn't stop commenting on how lifelike the CRT sets are and how much depth they have, compared to the flat, artificial and lifeless look of his DLP.

Then I took him to the living room and showed him my 73" CRT Mit. Even more!

According to him, nothing but CRT has that depth to it that you just can't find in fixed pixel.

b
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post #9908 of 11731
12/5/11 at 9:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

I just had a guy who works at KGO, our ABC affiliate here in the SF Bay Area over to look at my 65" Panny, since that set is the final CRT RPTV ever made that would do 1080i OR 720p, separately and independently of each other. ABC is of course 720p, as is Fox. He governs the live, on-air mixing board there, and I wanted him to consider owning a display that would truly bring in the channel he works at in its native 720p. He has seen all my YouTube videos, plus has read a smattering of this thread.

He currently has a 55" Mit CRT and a Mit DLP, and while watching my set he kept commenting on how lifelike the CRT sets are and how much depth they have, compared to the flat, artificial and lifeless look of his DLP.

Then I took him to the living room and showed him my 73" CRT Mit. Even more!

According to him, nothing but CRT has that depth to it that you just can't find in fixed pixel.

b

It's funny trying to convince people that an older technology might be a better technology, particularly with the rush to LED backlit LCDs. I do prefer DLP to LCD, but CRT to my eyes provides a rounder, deeper image.

Some people just like flat displays, because they're flat, and others like razor-sharp images that I find visually fatiguing. But I am curious what your reaction to the Sharp Elite will be, just because you are literate with display technology.

So is he going to get your Panasonic? You've left us hanging.
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post #9909 of 11731
12/5/11 at 9:43am
I still have my Craig Rounds calibrated 65" Mits and Lumagen HDQ for sale and still connected to the HDQ
I have an Oppo BDP-93 blu ray player with dual HDMI outs.
Oppo HDMI-1 is connected directly to the new Elite 70"
Oppo HDMI-2 is connected directly to HDQ which feeds the 65 Mits
This way, I can play a BR disc and show it on both displays at the same time.
I have the output resolution set to 1080i in the Oppo. This means I must feed 1080i to the Elite for this testing.
The displays are side by side.
I must say, I much prefer the Elite running in Movie THX mode
There are shadow details that you can't see on the Mits, especially at the edges.
I paused several scenes and compared each PQ. The blacks on the Elite are so inkky black that the CRT just does not compare...for me.

I do not have buyers remorse.

Maybe some of your guys will dis-agree. An in-home side by side comparison is the only way for you to know what I am talking about.
Forget looking at it in the store. There is no telling how the numerous PQ settings are set when u go to the store.
The PQ settings menu in the Elite is loaded with adjustment settings that anyone could mess with at the store.
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post #9910 of 11731
12/5/11 at 2:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

It's funny trying to convince people that an older technology might be a better technology, particularly with the rush to LED backlit LCDs. I do prefer DLP to LCD, but CRT to my eyes provides a rounder, deeper image.

Some people just like flat displays, because they're flat, and others like razor-sharp images that I find visually fatiguing. But I am curious what your reaction to the Sharp Elite will be, just because you are literate with display technology.

So is he going to get your Panasonic? You've left us hanging.

He's left me hanging. Evidently has financial challenges right now, so even tho I am giving him the $5000 set for free and only charging him for the various aspects of calibration I have put on it - calibrating 3 scanrates (1080i, 720p and 480i/p) plus overscan reduction on all 3 plus several renditions of optics and deeper optics cleanings over the years, plus color decoding realignment on HD - $1500 total - he still needs to think about it.

I'll let you know when I do -

b
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post #9911 of 11731
12/5/11 at 5:07pm
I think it is hard to sell any CRT set for more than 100, just because of the lack of all the latest features, not to mention the massive size/weight of the sets. Then you need a truck to transport it. I know for myself, I'd never give up my mitsu for anything. I'd cry if it broke, it is the best picture I've seen. My wife could care less, and doesn't think the pic looks any better than my Sony wega LCD rear projection (although the mitsu SLAYS the Sony for PQ).
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post #9912 of 11731
12/5/11 at 6:54pm
Thread Starter 
Whatcha got?

B
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post #9913 of 11731
12/5/11 at 7:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Whatcha got?

B

Assuming you are referring to my post. I have a 65869. I'm pretty positive it was calibrated before, the PQ is very similar to the pics I have seen of yours online. I have watched transformers dark of the moon on blu ray 4 times and counting, because the PQ is absolutely amazing. The movie isn't even that good, but I can't get enough of the awesome picture. I almost hate my Sony wega now after having this tv, it just doesn't come close. Everyone I have shown my mitsu to agrees that it is a great picture, but they don't think that it is much better than whatever flat panel they own. I wouldn't say I'm a videophile, but I sure do want the best PQ I can get, and after seeing what a CRT set can do, I just can't stand watching anything less.
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post #9914 of 11731
12/5/11 at 7:25pm
Thread Starter 
Welcome to the club!



b
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post #9915 of 11731
12/6/11 at 9:55am
This question is probably best directed to Mr. Bob, but anyone feel free to reply.

I found a very cheap Pioneer Elite Pro-700HD, but read about an issue with the line doubler in the set. I mostly use my current CRT Elite tv for non-HD gaming and over-air digital tv (don't have cable) and DVD movies. The connections would be through S-video, component, and composite, relayed through a JVC A/V switcher (model JX-S777).

From what little I've been able to find on the subject, the problem with the line doubler sounds like it affects non-HD material the most. Any thoughts around this issue? I've been holding out to find a 720 or 730 model, but haven't yet located one. Would the 700 be worth the effort to get it? Any other issues with this model?
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post #9916 of 11731
12/6/11 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejohnsto View Post

This question is probably best directed to Mr. Bob, but anyone feel free to reply.

I found a very cheap Pioneer Elite Pro-700HD, but read about an issue with the line doubler in the set. I mostly use my current CRT Elite tv for non-HD gaming and over-air digital tv (don't have cable) and DVD movies. The connections would be through S-video, component, and composite, relayed through a JVC A/V switcher (model JX-S777).

From what little I've been able to find on the subject, the problem with the line doubler sounds like it affects non-HD material the most. Any thoughts around this issue? I've been holding out to find a 720 or 730 model, but haven't yet located one. Would the 700 be worth the effort to get it? Any other issues with this model?

Or if you are in the NY/CT area I have a 710HD for sale with no issues...see here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post21273664
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post #9917 of 11731
12/6/11 at 10:21am
Unfortunately, I'm on the other side of the country in Portland, OR. Hopefully someone grabs that tv, though.
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post #9918 of 11731
12/6/11 at 10:36am
I'm about to buy another WS-65869. I'm just gonna bring home the chassis/lightbox assembly. I don't know how heavy it is. Can one person carry it or do I need 2 people?

John D

I went and got it. Paid $100. Didn't test it. Seller helped carry it to the car. I helped him move the cabinet out. My screen is in better shape.
I was hoping to get the IR emitters but didn't.
JohnD
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post #9919 of 11731
12/6/11 at 1:00pm
Price reduced to $299 on my Mits 65" WS65813
As another member wrote, you can't give these thing away.
See my sig for the ad
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post #9920 of 11731
12/6/11 at 1:45pm
I have that TV and it is awesome BUT I doubt I would buy another one if this one goes south on me. In fact I'm looking at the difficulty of moving it from Florida to Texas in a couple of months and thinking I may not even do that, but probably will. They are just so large and bulky compared to even a much larger screen DLP RP. My luck will be, I'll try to move it and it won't work when it gets here.
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post #9921 of 11731
12/6/11 at 1:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by obxdiver View Post

Price reduced to $299 on my Mits 65" WS65813
As another member wrote, you can't give these thing away.
See my sig for the ad

That's a great deal. Wasn't there a fellow Virginian who was interested, but financially strapped?

He's the logical candidate.
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post #9922 of 11731
12/6/11 at 2:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keverdawg View Post

I currently own a 57" Hitachi Ultravison CRT/RPT that is performing as new. It is capable of 1080i and runs on Directv HD receiver. Excellent picture. It does have DVI inputs. I can't wait any longer for a plasma and have a Panasonic TCP65GT30 on order to take its place of honor. The 57" Hitachi is still as new and will be retired to the bedroom. This thing is huge and heavy. In the bedroom I replaced an older 55" Hitach Ultravsion 480p (heavy and big) and basically couldn't give it away. I paid about $3500 for it 1998! Still works perfectly! I finally talked my aging mom and dad to take it. My dad loves it after viewing a 32" Sanyo with lines all over it.

I am having a little buyer's remorse I still love the Hitachi 57" incher. The Panasonic looked great in the store and had great reviews. Since they are not side by side it is tough to tell which on will perform better. I did look hard at Samsung LED 60" 7000 series. I seemed to like the plasma better. The LED was brighter but almost too bright and the jumpy motion of the legs of players in a football game was better than the older 60hz units but improved. The plasma was better in fast motion. I like my college football games! The colors on the plasma looked more natural as well. Did I make the right choice?

I personally would never buy a Panasonic Plasma, but I did give my Pioneer Elite Pro 720HD (the best RPTV made), and I purchased a Sony XBR-55HX-929 LED TV, and its the best move I made. I do not miss the 64" Pioneer Elite. I have a friend who owns your Hitachi, but his TV can't compare with my new Sony. As a matter of fact, I paid close to $1,000.00 to have my Pioneer CRT calibrated, but it still can't compare to my Sony.
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post #9923 of 11731
12/6/11 at 3:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

That's a great deal. Wasn't there a fellow Virginian who was interested, but financially strapped?

He's the logical candidate.

He and his wife came and looked at it. The wife factor (his) stopped that sale. She said, "Its too big and would stick out too far from our wall, but it does have a good picture." I had the 70 Elite turned off so they could not see the difference.
The only hits I have gotten off this set are the craigslist scammer emails.

It is listed in the Washington DC area, Richmond, and Norfolk, VA craigslist.

Nothing.
I keep re-listing it also so it says on page 1-2 of the search results.

So, nobody wants these things.

gbaby: I know what u mean about paying nearly $1000 for a pro calibration for a CRT RPTV. Even after all that, and I have a Lumagen HDQ in the mix as well (add another $2000 paid for that), that the Sony 929's and (my) Sharp Elite are far far above the CRT tech.
Sad, but true.

If I get no hits soon, I am busting it down and selling the parts on ebay and trashing the cabinet.
The 70" Elite needs to go in its place
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post #9924 of 11731
12/6/11 at 5:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by obxdiver View Post

He and his wife came and looked at it. The wife factor (his) stopped that sale. She said, "Its too big and would stick out too far from our wall, but it does have a good picture." I had the 70 Elite turned off so they could not see the difference.
The only hits I have gotten off this set are the craigslist scammer emails.

It is listed in the Washington DC area, Richmond, and Norfolk, VA craigslist.

Nothing.
I keep re-listing it also so it says on page 1-2 of the search results.

So, nobody wants these things.

gbaby: I know what u mean about paying nearly $1000 for a pro calibration for a CRT RPTV. Even after all that, and I have a Lumagen HDQ in the mix as well (add another $2000 paid for that), that the Sony 929's and (my) Sharp Elite are far far above the CRT tech.
Sad, but true.

If I get no hits soon, I am busting it down and selling the parts on ebay and trashing the cabinet.
The 70" Elite needs to go in its place

I've actually been snatching up 55 inch mitsu TVs for 25ish and giving them to friends and family. I have had a hard time doing that too. I tried to give one to my sister, and she didn't want it. A free 55 inch tv! Delivered! No one wants these monsters. That does work out for us CRT freaks though. I am eyeing up a diamond series 73 inch on CL for 250 right now. Mmmm delicious.
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post #9925 of 11731
12/7/11 at 9:08am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by obxdiver View Post

I still have my Craig Rounds calibrated 65" Mits and Lumagen HDQ for sale and still connected to the HDQ
I have an Oppo BDP-93 blu ray player with dual HDMI outs.
Oppo HDMI-1 is connected directly to the new Elite 70"
Oppo HDMI-2 is connected directly to HDQ which feeds the 65 Mits
This way, I can play a BR disc and show it on both displays at the same time.
I have the output resolution set to 1080i in the Oppo. This means I must feed 1080i to the Elite for this testing.
The displays are side by side.
I must say, I much prefer the Elite running in Movie THX mode
There are shadow details that you can't see on the Mits, especially at the edges.
I paused several scenes and compared each PQ. The blacks on the Elite are so inkky black that the CRT just does not compare...for me.

I do not have buyers remorse.

Maybe some of your guys will dis-agree. An in-home side by side comparison is the only way for you to know what I am talking about.
Forget looking at it in the store. There is no telling how the numerous PQ settings are set when u go to the store.
The PQ settings menu in the Elite is loaded with adjustment settings that anyone could mess with at the store.

Have your optics been cleaned recently?

Luckily for you the Mit's don't need the deeper optics cleaning, but do need the regular optics cleaned every year without fail, just like all other brands of CRT RPTV.

This one thing being lacking - the sizzling rapture of a crystal clear light path, comprising all 28 optical surfaces in there, each one optical grade - could explain why you are not seeing shadow details like you should.

No other consumer production modality beats CRT for the blacks, when properly set up and cared for.

b
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post #9926 of 11731
12/7/11 at 9:12am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejohnsto View Post

This question is probably best directed to Mr. Bob, but anyone feel free to reply.

I found a very cheap Pioneer Elite Pro-700HD, but read about an issue with the line doubler in the set. I mostly use my current CRT Elite tv for non-HD gaming and over-air digital tv (don't have cable) and DVD movies. The connections would be through S-video, component, and composite, relayed through a JVC A/V switcher (model JX-S777).

From what little I've been able to find on the subject, the problem with the line doubler sounds like it affects non-HD material the most. Any thoughts around this issue? I've been holding out to find a 720 or 730 model, but haven't yet located one. Would the 700 be worth the effort to get it? Any other issues with this model?

HD doesn't use line doubling, it doesn't need it. If you want it chiefly for HD, that would not be a worry.

If you want your TV to really sing, bring me up there to Portland, my home town. I'll stay with my brother and split the air fare expenses with you.

b
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post #9927 of 11731
12/7/11 at 9:16am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt5094 View Post

I have that TV and it is awesome BUT I doubt I would buy another one if this one goes south on me. In fact I'm looking at the difficulty of moving it from Florida to Texas in a couple of months and thinking I may not even do that, but probably will. They are just so large and bulky compared to even a much larger screen DLP RP. My luck will be, I'll try to move it and it won't work when it gets here.

The light box can always be removed so you can have a relatively hollow shell to work with as far as the rest of the TV goes. It can be sent/moved in 2 pieces. 3 if you want to separate the top from the bottom of the optical cavity -

b
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post #9928 of 11731
12/7/11 at 9:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Have your optics been cleaned recently?

Luckily for you the Mit's don't need the deeper optics cleaning, but do need the regular optics cleaned every year without fail, just like all other brands of CRT RPTV.

This one thing being lacking - the sizzling rapture of a crystal clear light path, comprising all 28 optical surfaces in there, each one optical grade - could explain why you are not seeing shadow details like you should.

No other consumer production modality beats CRT for the blacks, when properly set up and cared for.

b

How many colors does a three gun crt rptv make?

Regarding PQ, there is another factor besides specs on paper...which is the actual viewing experience over a period of time. Like most on this forum display quality is important to me, so I am looking at different technologies whenever I have a chance.

One thing that is apparent to me, is that projection TV seems easier on the eyes. Some flat panels are incredibly sharp. I remember looking at a nature film of bison in a field, and it was like looking through a window. But these screens, particularly LED backlit, are visually tiring for me, my girlfriend, and for a number of people who post on the web. Yet I can look at CRT RPTV (and DLP, for that matter) for hours without a hint of eye fatigue.

LEDs use pulse width modulation (flickering) not only to create a range of brightness values, but also to make different colors, if my understanding is correct. Given that all the colors are made by the primaries, the only way that the amount of a given color can be controlled to change the proportion of the primaries used is once again through pulse width modulation. So it would seem to me that you have many different rates of flickering occurring simultaneously, to produce brightness, contrast, and color. How that all interacts with the flickering of the lcds is beyond my ken, but it is at least possible that the eye is being presented with a complex pattern.

All displays flicker, and all display technologies rely upon persistence of vision, but there are many approaches to this end.

At any rate, whenever I have gone to showrooms, my eyes always seek out projection.

Just my two cents.
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post #9929 of 11731
12/7/11 at 12:22pm
Try the Sharp Elite in Movie THX mode. Very soothing to the eyes, just like the Mits is. This mode is limited to 35fL according to the THX spec, and it is very very nice and not bright at all in this mode
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post #9930 of 11731
12/7/11 at 1:10pm
I will try to find an Elite properly set up, in THX, in a good ambient light situation. As one who likes very large screens I want to like technologies that offer that.

At the same time I'm intrigued why for some fixed pixel displays...particularly LCDs...seem uncomfortable for some people.

In addition to the issues I listed above there are a few other differences between traditional CRT technologies and LCDs. Because LCDs utilize ever sharper and finer pixels it's possible that some viewers see and focus on individual pixels, as well as patterns of pixels, which might produce eyestrain, because the eye muscles may shift back and forth from resolving the whole picture to focusing on smaller elements.

Another issue is that unlike CRTs (and CRT RPTVs) which produce light that travels in various directions, LCDs (unless I'm mistaken) produce light that is polarized...not something that we ordinarily see unless wearing polarized sunglasses. There's an interesting youtube about this, where a piece of polarizing material is rotated in front of an LCD HDTV showing the polarized light output.

Regarding my earlier point about PWM, it's possible some displays rely on PWM applied to LEDs to create admixtures of color, whereas some displays may utilize lcd pixel dithering to achieve shades of color (which also introduces flickering). I defer to anyone who authoritatively knows how LED LCD TVs achieve this.
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