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Sony's Reputation, and 10 Reasons Why They Could Fail - Page 2

post #31 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by turansformer View Post

3. Digital 8 vs. Mini-DV: While boasting identical quality, the Digital 8 format was originally pushed to be a professional grade medium for storing DV footage. Lack of interest and compatibility with professional equipment pushed the format to eventually appeal to only the consumer market.

Uh, Digital 8 was never pushed as a professional grade medium for storing DV footage. Digital 8 was Sony's way of extending life to their 8mm video products, and introducing consumers to higher quality digital video. I've never seen a high end or prosumer version of Digital 8, and never recall seeing it marketed as such.

Plus it was backwards compatible in most cases with consumers who already had 8mm products.

Lastly, I seem to recall Sony was part of the miniDV consortium as well, far from a failure (much like you attribute Blu-Ray will go).



Quote:


8. UMD vs. Ipod Video:

UMDs don't average $30, they average $20-$25, just like their DVD new release counterparts. Many can be found new at $19MSRP.

Ipod video didn't kill UMD sales. It didn't even have an effect on it. Cost of UMDs killed UMDs. Why spend $60 for 2-3 UMDs when you can buy a 1GB memory stick and rip 2-4 movies to the stick, erase it and put 2-4 new movie content on the stick? UMDs would be a raging success (I think) if they were $5-$7, whether sold separately or as a premium to a DVD pack in. But $15-$25 for a low res movie? Hell no...

Quote:


I cannot mention the failures of Sony without mentioning its successes. Granted, the company has created several products that spawned worldwide attention, including the Playstations, the new SXRD televisions, and the ever popular 'Ruby'.

It's done more than create a few product success stories.... Walkman? Trinitron? that damn robot Aibo, Vaio PC/laptops, the professional market like Betacam SP/MX/Digital, DVCAM, and a whole lot more.

Every consumer electronics company has had successes. But you can view them as failures too. Just because a product isn't adopted by every consumer electronics company doesn't mean the product, technology, or company for that matter is a failure. If that's the case, there's plenty of them including Toshiba, Panasonic, NEC, Sanyo, the list goes on...

Finally, I could care less if a product is a success or failure - if it serves my purpose as a consumer, it's a success in my book.
post #32 of 191
I for one hope that Sony continues being imaginative, arrogant and bullheaded in their product development. In my opinion, they did some of their best work when Akio Morita was in charge...perhaps some future visionary will come along who can drive the company to the heights of excellence again. Too many CE manufacturers these days are content with just copying what the market leader is doing instead of developing new, innovative, advanced technologies. It is unfortunate that the two camps couldn't come to some sort of compromise...the resulting product might've been phenomenal.
post #33 of 191
Ken, I think Sony's history most certainly has an impact on how well Blu-ray will fare. Sony IS the backbone of Blu-Ray. Believe it if you want to, but Sony's reputation for proprietory formats DEFINITELY influences certain people's decisions and you can put me into that category. I want choice and based on my experiences, Sony products pigeonhole you into buying their unique formats.... and at a premium.
Sony could win me back if they produced a player that played both formats.... but somehow, I really doubt that will happen anytime soon.
post #34 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark0 View Post

Try shopping for a memory stick. Sure , you can buy them, but you're going to pay top dollar.

you mean like this?

In this case the sony card is cheaper by more than half:
Sandisk 512mb Secure Digital $44.99
San Disk Memory stick 512mb $19.99


Hey look these are the same price:
Sandisk 1gb SD $69.99
Sony 1gb pro duo $69.99

wheres the premium?

there sure is alot of monkey poo (anti sony sentiment) flung around this board. I'm all for opinion and putting IMO after a statement. But don't try and pass your opinion off as fact.

Thanks,
post #35 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiklem View Post

It's done more than create a few product success stories.... Walkman? Trinitron? that damn robot Aibo, Vaio PC/laptops, the professional market like Betacam SP/MX/Digital, DVCAM, and a whole lot more

lets not forget, first to market with a consumer, (not professional or prosumer) HD-Camcorder <--I own this and it rocks!
post #36 of 191
turansformer, there is one MAJOR blunder from SONY you did not mention, the ELCASET (1976).:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elcaset

post #37 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighDeff View Post

turansformer, there is one MAJOR blunder from SONY you did not mention, the ELCASET (1976).:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elcaset


Oh no. I bought one of those things. Man do I feel old and....
post #38 of 191
Wow, I had no idea Sony has created so many formats! They must have hundreds of engineers doing nothing but thinking up new ways to record stuff. I get the feeling that as long as Sony is around, we will always have 2 versions of every format.
post #39 of 191
So many people keep comparing the current format war to Beta vs VHS.

Now if I remember correctly, Beta came out first, yes? Beta also had a better PQ, yes?

Currently, HD-DVD came out first, yes? HD-DVD has better PQ right now yes?

So if we follow the dumb analogy that history will repeat itself, then won't Blu-Ray ultimately win the format war? STOP comparing HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray to Beta vs VHS. Its not the same thing

And lastly, if I remember correctly, Sony actually ended up making a good sum of money on Beta because studios and production facilities wanted better PQ. Sony bailed out of the consumer market and probably ended up making more money with Beta rather than compete with a million other companies trying to sell you the same format.

Anywayz, off to bed.
post #40 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oinky Mac View Post

Wow, I had no idea Sony has created so many formats! They must have hundreds of engineers doing nothing but thinking up new ways to record stuff. I get the feeling that as long as Sony is around, we will always have 2 versions of every format.

Perhaps only in the US and Canada. Sony markets worldwide....US sales account for just a portion global revenues. In fact, long after Beta went pro only in the US, not only did broadcasters continue using it, but so did many other countries around the world. The only problem I have with Sony is that you no longer are guaranteed to get what you pay for. When all of their manufacturing was done in Japan, it was rare (for me, anyway) to ever have to use the warranty on a product.
post #41 of 191
Jeff Minter: Sony 'Arrogant' Concerning The PS3

Quote:


In reports originally printed by UK game magazine Edge and relayed by BBC News, seminal British programmer and game designer Jeff Minter (Tempest 2000) has voiced his opinion of Sony's PlayStation 3 console following its E3 launch, going so far as to call the company "incredibly arrogant".

Minter's thoughts on the PlayStation 3, which were published in his regular column in the UK video game magazine Edge, included his feeling that Sony seems absolutely certain that even when they say it's going to be considerably more expensive than existing consoles... nevertheless us eager customers will rush out in droves to buy it because it's, hey, a new PlayStation.

Veteran coder Minter is the founder of development house Llamasoft, which has produced cult titles such as Attack of the Mutant Camels for the Commodore 64 and Atari 8-bit computers, as well as Gridrunner and Sheep in Space. Minter also produced the 1994 remake of Dave Theurer's 1981 classic Tempest for the Atari Jaguar with Tempest 2000.

His most recent work includes an unfortunately cancelled GameCube title in conjunction with Lionhead Studios named Unity, the sound-to-light synthesizer called Neon which is built in to all Xbox 360 consoles, and Minter is currently listed as an Xbox Live Arcade developer, though he has not explicitly revealed what title he is working on for the system.

Interestingly, Minter is not alone in questioning the price, as a recent survey of Japanese developers by Japanese magazine Ge-Maga found that an overwhelming 90.29 percent of those participants feel that PlayStation 3 is priced too high.
post #42 of 191
thats a great review of what you wrote man....
post #43 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oinky Mac View Post

Wow, I had no idea Sony has created so many formats! They must have hundreds of engineers doing nothing but thinking up new ways to record stuff. I get the feeling that as long as Sony is around, we will always have 2 versions of every format.

They must feel that for every proprietary win that must be worth a bunch of proprietary losses. I give it to them, they do try new things and they try the same things but executed differently. That isn't all bad all of the time.

Also to OP, I enjoyed the refresher course.
post #44 of 191
Quote:

hey if in that column it said the 90% of the japanese folks think the PS3 its too expensive then for sure its too expensive since PS in general has a foot hold in the japanese market and hardly no american format survives their, but now if the japan folks think its too expensive well then sony might be in trouble.
post #45 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cycosuicide View Post

So many people keep comparing the current format war to Beta vs VHS.

Now if I remember correctly, Beta came out first, yes? Beta also had a better PQ, yes?

Currently, HD-DVD came out first, yes? HD-DVD has better PQ right now yes?

So if we follow the dumb analogy that history will repeat itself, then won't Blu-Ray ultimately win the format war? STOP comparing HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray to Beta vs VHS. Its not the same thing

I think when people use the comparison (I do feel it fair to an extent if one of these become dominant) they don't mean every step along the way is an exact mimic of the other war. The finer details will vary but the general scope of the situation is very similar. This is a big war and now the internet is here ready to call it blow by blow, something that is different when the Beta vs VHS thing went down.
post #46 of 191
Who pioneered those Movie Albums in a plastic sleeve (during beta/vhs and right before LD). CED's I believe? Just wondering... RCA?
post #47 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by HorrorScope View Post

Who pioneered those Movie Albums in a plastic sleeve (during beta/vhs and right before LD). CED's I believe? Just wondering... RCA?

Yes, that was RCA Selectavision. They stopped making them about 1986 and started using the Selectavision name for their VHS VCRs. I met a guy a few years back who still had the player and dozens of movies. They still worked!

BTW, Laserdisc actually has been around since the late '70s, when it was called "Discovision"!
post #48 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian@BBY View Post

you mean like this?

In this case the sony card is cheaper by more than half:
Sandisk 512mb Secure Digital $44.99
San Disk Memory stick 512mb $19.99


Hey look these are the same price:
Sandisk 1gb SD $69.99
Sony 1gb pro duo $69.99

wheres the premium?

there sure is alot of monkey poo (anti sony sentiment) flung around this board. I'm all for opinion and putting IMO after a statement. But don't try and pass your opinion off as fact.

Thanks,

your also not point out fact brian your comparing the new SD technology to sonys old MS technology of course one technology is gonna be more expensive than the older one....try looking up the new MS pro duo thats the same comparison as the SD card. that MS you just showed is huge man thats old stuff the pro duos are in the same leaguq as the SD card you just showed. Overall if you compare apples to apples both are almost the same price sony might be more expensive by only 5 bucks. My costco has the pro duo and the newer SD technology both at 1gigs both made my Scandisk and both are 54.99....only becuase there is no sony there only Scandisck stuff....here you go brian here are the facts:
sonys MS pro duo

SD card
post #49 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian@BBY View Post

you mean like this?

In this case the sony card is cheaper by more than half:
Sandisk 512mb Secure Digital $44.99
San Disk Memory stick 512mb $19.99


Hey look these are the same price:
Sandisk 1gb SD $69.99
Sony 1gb pro duo $69.99

wheres the premium?

there sure is alot of monkey poo (anti sony sentiment) flung around this board. I'm all for opinion and putting IMO after a statement. But don't try and pass your opinion off as fact.

Thanks,

For starters that's one store not the entire market. The first two are hardly comparable since Sandisk is charging extra for the "digital secure" feature. What is the cost of their most basic 512mb since that is the most basic memory stick pro you chose to compare it to. The pro duo would have been a closer match and it costs around $60 (69 in your example). That doesn't even take into account the "Ultra" line SKUs. That's a premium. I also find it comical that in order to prove Sony doesn't charge a premium for their product you sighted two Sandisk products that aren't even equivalent. Apples to Oranges. Check features and price when drawing these comparisons.
post #50 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cycosuicide View Post

So many people keep comparing the current format war to Beta vs VHS.

Now if I remember correctly, Beta came out first, yes? Beta also had a better PQ, yes?

Currently, HD-DVD came out first, yes? HD-DVD has better PQ right now yes?

So if we follow the dumb analogy that history will repeat itself, then won't Blu-Ray ultimately win the format war? STOP comparing HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray to Beta vs VHS. Its not the same thing

And lastly, if I remember correctly, Sony actually ended up making a good sum of money on Beta because studios and production facilities wanted better PQ. Sony bailed out of the consumer market and probably ended up making more money with Beta rather than compete with a million other companies trying to sell you the same format.

Anywayz, off to bed.

if you can come out with a better PQ than current HD-DVD then im fine I dont care if you call it, "blu ray dvd quosmos super high defintion cd" name what you will and what you want, but as long as my eyes can see superb PQ im in.
post #51 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPC View Post

Yes, that was RCA Selectavision. They stopped making them about 1986 and started using the Selectavision name for their VHS VCRs. I met a guy a few years back who still had the player and dozens of movies. They still worked!

BTW, Laserdisc actually has been around since the late '70s, when it was called "Discovision"!

I have a unit and disks out in my dad's barn in Ohio for about 15 years now. Has to be ruined by now. Hmm... I remember renting those at a Goodrich/RCA store for years, took a stab at RCA.
post #52 of 191
Thread Starter 
Wow, I created this post just yesterday afternoon, and I'm already learning about formats I wasn't even aware of. Thanks for the corrections, complaints, compliments, and feedback in general.
post #53 of 191
I hate to be stubborn, but history NEVER repeats itself. I don't think Betamax and VHS are going to go to war again Sorry, had to be cleared up. I hate all those people that say history repeats itself when it would never be possible at all (without a time machine and a lot of meddling that is)
post #54 of 191
anyway, I thought I'd ask again since nobody answered. Who was behind DCC and who was behind DAT? They were actually at war to see who would replace cassette tapes (MD would not be a tape medium if memory serves). MD did come out at the same time, but just another format trying to come out (and probably trying to replace CD b/c smaller) not at war with DCC and DAT.
post #55 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolintheRain View Post

I hate to be stubborn, but history NEVER repeats itself. I don't think Betamax and VHS are going to go to war again Sorry, had to be cleared up. I hate all those people that say history repeats itself when it would never be possible at all (without a time machine and a lot of meddling that is)

Ummm, hate to burst your bubble, but everybody here already knows that. :P The history that repeats itself is Sony's inability to win a 'format war'.
post #56 of 191
Quote:


Even Philips themselves claim there is no 'father of the CD'.

So CD does not count in your view because it was not Sony only, it was Sony/Philips. So why should BD count when BD is not a Sony only format. The format was started by 9companies that banded together to make the BDA
post #57 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyP View Post

So why should BD count when BD is not a Sony only format. The format was started by 9companies that banded together to make the BDA

The physical format for BD was designed by three companies: Sony, Matsushita and Philips with the two former having a much larger role. The rest of the companies joined the bandwagon after the fact. Indeed, these companies are consider the "core BDA" members.
post #58 of 191
could have sworn it was 9, but not importnat the point still remains that this whole thread is someone trying to make the facts fit a conclusion that is useless. He does not allow CD and any other techs that Sony was one of the prime creators because It was not Sony alne and then states that it is proof of BD that is not a Sony only tech.
post #59 of 191
Agreed that Sony did succeed nicely with the CD in their collaboration with Philips. And it is also true that BD is not closed technology of one company.

On the other side of the coin, .1mm recording was a research project at Sony. Their researchers came to Matsushita, asking if they would want to go to market with it and they said yes and here we are. They have let other companies join them and share the specifications with them. And let them add things to it.
post #60 of 191
I think that after the first Blu-Ray launch fiasco it might be time for Sony and Toshiba to get together and try to work things out. 50% is better than nothing at all and both sides have too much to loose. Toshiba has proven that their players work and Sony has proved to us so far that there are problems producing dual layer disks. Who knows what meetings are taking place behind the scenes but one can be sure that that Sony has been watching the Samsung launch and cannot be happy with the results. Toshiba has its own problems in getting the studios onboard. This just might be the time to reach an agreement for one format.
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