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New Best Buy Policy for the BD-P1000:"14 Day Return Period -15% Restock Fee Applies" - Page 3  

post #61 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by LpChaos
Makes sense why they're doing this. Same thing for GPS, Laptops, etc.. People are buying these players, using them for a bit, and then returning them. Granted the reasons for returning them are due to the product being extremely poor, but regardless of the situation, BB is in the right on this. Got to make some money somehow.

ummmm..... no. Best Buy could simply stop carrying a product that has a VERY high return rate. Obviously, it is this single product, so why not examine whether you want to carry it. BB is just being greedy because they don't want to give up their profits now that they've realized they can't actually sell them on their merits. If you don't want them all coming back. Stop selling them.

Not all of those were bought with no intention to keep. Mine included. The **** performance is why. Why should I pay a restocking fee for a product that didn't live up to its own advertising. I feel I was duped into buying this hunk of **** by all the promises made prior to release. I found out I had pretty much been lied to about the quality and took it back. This is my right as a consumer. Period.
post #62 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheThunder
The primary reason for a return policy is to protect the consumer from a lemon device. I don't blame BB for this at all in this case. In my opinion, customers need to spend a little time doing some... and now this is important: research ! I know I'm not touching any of the new formats with a 10 foot pole on the current gen (and from the way it looks, the inherent flaws in Blu-Ray are keeping me from ever going that route). :cool:
Reasons for return policies vary depending on the retailer. Many retailers include words such as "satisfaction" which means you will be happy. Not everyone is on AVS or even computer savy enough to do meaningful research. If you really do your research and feel sure you know what you're doing, then you can save some money and buy on-line at the lowest price and the return policy from hell.

To promote sales to less informed people, the vast majority, big stores get more liberal with return policies and put on the "smiley face.". Look at the long lines at Costco, Walmart and Target. Sure, some people are using these policies for free rentals and the like, but I'd say most are just unhappy with what they bought. The overall increase of sales volume at these places more than makes up mitigating factors.

In closing, I agree about the current Blu-Ray product based on what I've seen and read. :rolleyes:
post #63 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheThunder
The primary reason for a return policy is to protect the consumer from a lemon device. I don't blame BB for this at all in this case. In my opinion, customers need to spend a little time doing some... and now this is important: research ! I know I'm not touching any of the new formats with a 10 foot pole on the current gen (and from the way it looks, the inherent flaws in Blu-Ray are keeping me from ever going that route). :cool:
Research the product to find out if it is a lemon before purchase, so you don't need to take advantage of the return policy that allows you to purchase a product without fear of getting stuck with a lemon. :rolleyes:
post #64 of 190
Best Buy has a relationship with Samsung and carries many of their products. They won't jeopardize it for one product - remember that they also got marketing dollars for promoting BD. Their only option is to reduce the sales of the Samsung player by using this new policy - they would prefer to have early adopters go to a competitor instead. The new policy will do that - BB would rather not have Samsung BD player sales for now.
post #65 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPanther95
You completely overlook the fact that it isn't a problem with DVD players in general. It is only one specific product. There's very little motivation, except for a few, to pay $1000 just for sh*ts and giggles with the intent of returning the player. With laptops and GPS, etc. there are many more who will purchase just for their annual vacation or a long plane ride - what is the incentive for a BD player?

Exclusions to the 30 day policy should be for those products that are subject to abuse, not for the products for which the program was specifically designed to cover - the ones that people aren't happy with because they have problems or underperform.

If they want to serve their customers then they should filter out those products that cannot afford to be covered under their guarantee - or contractually pass those expenses onto the manufacturer. You don't pass those costs on to the same consumer that you were intending (or pretending) to protect. And there's no question that if the return rate is actually 75%, or even 40%, the vast majority of those customers are not habitual abusers. They are likely good BB customers for whom the guarantee was only ever used to justify, or reinforce, a purchase - not to plan some sort of rental scheme.
I understand your argument and I agree with you for the most part. I still don't see a problem with them charging a 15% restocking fee as long as you know it up front. If your still willing to buy it then you should make sure you already love it before you take it home. IMHO if your going to spend a grand on ANYTHING you should make sure your going to love it before you take it home and know exactly how its going ot perform.
post #66 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by chap
I understand your argument and I agree with you for the most part. I still don't see a problem with them charging a 15% restocking fee as long as you know it up front. If your still willing to buy it then you should make sure you already love it before you take it home.
I got off on a tangent because I'm picturing the new BB sales pitch being very similar to the old BB sales pitch. Ignoring that speculation, I completely agree about the restocking fee. If it is a stop gap measure to control the bleeding for a product that is well within their pipeline, then so be it - that's business.

My problem is not fully disclosing the reasons behind the restock fee (or disregarding the exception entirely in their pitch) - or fabricating some excuse like:

"The restocking fee was instituted because of a bunch of novices who didn't realize you needed special discs to get full HD pictures - but you obviously know your stuff, so that wouldn't apply to you"

or

"We put a restocking fee on because the demand for the product is off the charts and we have a limited number of units available. If people aren't serious buyers and just want to play with a unit, they'll return it and say it was defective and we'll have to send it back to the manufacturer. We want to make sure the few we have end up in the hands of real A-V/Movie-buffs like yourself.
post #67 of 190
There really have to be meetings going on at Samsung now about how to stop the bleeding. The restocking fee is going to hurt Samsung even more. I'm sure that Samsung wishes now that it had supported HD-DVD, since Blu-ray supporters are saying wait for the Sony, Panasonic, or Pioneer. Samsung has to be kicking themselves.
post #68 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPanther95
My problem is not fully disclosing the reasons behind the restock fee (or disregarding the exception entirely in their pitch) - or fabricating some excuse like:

"The restocking fee was instituted because of a bunch of novices who didn't realize you needed special discs to get full HD pictures - but you obviously know your stuff, so that wouldn't apply to you"

or

"We put a restocking fee on because the demand for the product is off the charts and we have a limited number of units available. If people aren't serious buyers and just want to play with a unit, they'll return it and say it was defective and we'll have to send it back to the manufacturer. We want to make sure the few we have end up in the hands of real A-V/Movie-buffs like yourself.
Or, perhaps the truth. "Samsung and Sony are paying us a lot of money to promote this product, though you'll quickly find out you should have gone with HD DVD or wait until this half-baked product matures and will want to return it. As long as we get 15% back and sell the open stock for 10% off, we're covered."
post #69 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by RnB180
its bb's way of saying, we still make money whether you return the unit or not.

Nonsense. Merchandise that is returned opened cannot be resold as new. It is "B" merchandise and legally must be disclosed as such. Most consumers won't buy it unless it carries a hefty discount.

Even if this weren't the case, the 15% doesn't cover the costs a retailer incurs in restocking the unit--checking it out to see if it works, making sure all the parts and manuals are intact, etc.

Best Buy doesn't "make" any money on returned merchandise. The 15% only offsets some of its costs. :rolleyes:
post #70 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPanther95
Research the product to find out if it is a lemon before purchase, so you don't need to take advantage of the return policy that allows you to purchase a product without fear of getting stuck with a lemon. :rolleyes:
A "lemon" isn't a poorly performing product. It is a badly defective product that repeated service doesn't cure.

You can't "research" a product to find out if a particular unit is a "lemon." You MAY find out how likely it is to be a lemon. But that's another matter.
post #71 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by chap
I still don't see a problem with them charging a 15% restocking fee as long as you know it up front.
That's the problem, though. A lot of people who were getting hit with the restock fee weren't told upfront. See here for more: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...light=resolved
post #72 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiningBengal
Nonsense. Merchandise that is returned opened cannot be resold as new. It is "B" merchandise and legally must be disclosed as such. Most consumers won't buy it unless it carries a hefty discount.

Even if this weren't the case, the 15% doesn't cover the costs a retailer incurs in restocking the unit--checking it out to see if it works, making sure all the parts and manuals are intact, etc.

Best Buy doesn't "make" any money on returned merchandise. The 15% only offsets some of its costs. :rolleyes:
Best Buy spends less than 5 minutes checking returned merchandise. And we all know what they pay those floor people working there. The person returning it spends an average of 15 minutes in line. :rolleyes:

I looked at a returned Toshiba HD-A1 at Best Buy. The top had so many scratches it looked as is it was dragged upside-down accross the parking lot. The front plastic looked as if there was vaseline smeared over it to hide more scratches. The remote had deep gouges on the metal edges. One cable was missing. I said, "I can't believe you guys took this back in this condition." No response and a blank , who gives a ***k stare back from the customer service guy. All this after I was told the unit was just a potential demo unit that never left the store and was in like new condition. I drove about 20 miles to see it based on this assurance. :rolleyes:
post #73 of 190
They check them? They didn't even open the box on my Sammy when I returned it. I also returned a DOA HD and they didn't check the contents. Both times it could have been a rock and I would have gotten my money back.
post #74 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luap
I think the restocking fee is fine for machines that are not defective IF it is stated up front before the purchase, and IF they have a proper set-up for the machine's performance to be evaluated. This is key, assuming that not everyone has been reading the reviews.... If you can't really see whether the product is any good in the store, then you shouldn't have to pay a restocking fee if you find out at home that it isn't good. If they want to charge a restocking fee, then they better start devoting more space to viewing rooms that are not filled with fluorescent light and big windows.
I think out of all the good posts here, this one sums everything up fairly well. Most BB stores I have been in the past couple of weeks are showing a demo disc that looks better than the actual movies for sale. The HD video watch presentation alone (not to mention a few of the trailers) implies a high definition clarity to the picture that is very rarely matched with the actual movies released. Also, the stores are generally not comparing the BD to an upconverted SD DVD of the same movie to demonstrate that this technology is a real step up. In my testing at home, I found them too close to justify keeping the Samsung and buying the current slate of movies. So I returned it yesterday.

I received only a little hesitation on returning it and a Magnolia rep who I have spoke to in the past came to the front to diagnose whether I knew how to use/hook up the machine. He quickly came to the conclusion that it wasn't an installation error and took back the Samsung and 6 movies. No re-stocking fee was mentioned as it shouldn't be given it was not their policy when I bought the unit.

My intention was to keep the player if it at least matched the performance of HD DVD. I even bought a new Denon AVR 2807 receiver from BB when I bought the Samsung as it had a third HD input that my perfectly good Denon AVR 2803 was missing. I am keeping the Denon 2807 because it is a very nice receiver.

If they mentioned a re-stocking fee upfront I would not have bought it so quickly. That would have been fine with me by the way but it wasn't the case. The Magnolia rep assured me that there would be no concern returning it. Going forward, I won't be buying another BD player until the software truly demonstrates comparable quality compared to HD DVD or any other bar that is set by then.
post #75 of 190
Has it been comfirmed that this is the BB policy?

Assuming it it, then the real point is that this is a another piece of evidence that there is a problem with a high return rate with the Samsung player and that Blu-Ray is having some issues with the general public.

Wheter this is a good strategy for BB to use is also another matter to discuss, especially if they are doing this for BR and not HD DVD players. That would be a real distinction.

As it is now, a exception that the player falls into a 14 day return, 15% restock category is bound to somehow depress sales to some degree, it cannot increase them.
post #76 of 190
The primary reason for a liberal return policy is to reduce the risk to the consumer and encourage the point of sale purchase.

The policy usually works because most people won't bother with the return unless they really are dissatified because of the inertia effect, just like many rebates never are claimed.

The general policies on what goods are not covered by a 30 day general policy generally cover the items that are obvious candidates for short term use, and people might be encouraged to use and return. Most consumers won't plan to do this, and even for those that do plan it, some of those keep the purchase anyway. The store ususally wins because the extra sales and profit generated by reducing the risk of purchase outweigh the cost of returns.

To change a policy and generate an exception to it because of a high return rate is an very unusual event IMHO and may be a very serious indicator. With no other BR players due to be released in the very short term, this means that the initial marketing dollars spent on end caps and marketing placement will be wasted.
post #77 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by bferr1
I'd like to know the reasoning behind the change in policy, if it is indeed chainwide and not just something done at the local level. If it is chainwide, this surely will have a chilling effect on the format war if people can't return a player without taking a financial hit.
I'd bet it's based on the huge return rate of these players. This will just hurt sales even more and the downward spiral will continue.
post #78 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiningBengal
A "lemon" isn't a poorly performing product. It is a badly defective product that repeated service doesn't cure.
How many electronics do you know that can get repeated service in a period of 30 days? If I had something that needed repair twice in the first 30 days - even if it could be fixed adequately - it would be going back.
post #79 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty
Has it been comfirmed that this is the BB policy?
We only have a report from one location so it may not necessarily spread.
post #80 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoose
I don't have a problem with this policy at all, Just look at how many people on this forum have gotten a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD with no intention of keeping it, they just want to audition it & return it.
There is no reason BB or any other retailer should put up with the idiots who just want to do this crap.
Didn't you return your HD-DVD player?
post #81 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty
To change a policy and generate an exception to it because of a high return rate is an very unusual event IMHO and may be a very serious indicator. With no other BR players due to be released in the very short term, this means that the initial marketing dollars spent on end caps and marketing placement will be wasted.
High Definition DVD will be HUGE. It will eclipse and eventually render the SD DVD as obsolete as VHS tape. Look what CD's did to LP's and cassettes. Now CD's are getting buried by MP3 players.

More people are buying Hi-Def displays and TV's. As most of the people here in these forums know, once you've seen it its hard going back to SD especially if HDTV is already in your living room. Don't want to buy hundreds of HD DVD's then there's Netflix and probably more like them comming.

Stakes are high. Both camps know it. There's a huge fortune to be made. Things will get ugly before there is peace in the valley. Should be an interesting fight. One may be down for the count but one shouldn't underestimate the ability to get up and still deliver a knock out blow. I bet the Blu-Ray camp is working overtime on that as we parse back and forth.
post #82 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoose
There is no reason BB or any other retailer should put up with the idiots who just want to do this crap.
There is no reason we need to put up with salespeople telling us BluRay will give us the best picture possible when it isn't true, but we do. There is no reason we need to see a BluRay banner with a Toshiba player playing HD-DVD pretending to be BluRay, but we do.

If BB offers a return policy it is because they feel the benefits (to them) outweigh the costs. If they want to change the return policy that is fine also. As long as they are up front about it. Also during the transition period they should make it clear the policy is different or changing because they've had the old policy in place for so long. So along with telling the consumer "isn't this the best picture you've ever seen", they should also tell them "if you buy this unit and don't like it, it will cost you $150 to return it"

I'm sure sales of this particular BluRay product will dry up if this policy is implemented nationwide.
post #83 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiningBengal
Nonsense. Merchandise that is returned opened cannot be resold as new. It is "B" merchandise and legally must be disclosed as such. Most consumers won't buy it unless it carries a hefty discount.
I've seen 2 people buy open-box Toshiba HD-A1s for very little discount.

My local best buys commonly don't even have open-box HD-A1s available because they get gobbled up.
post #84 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiningBengal
Even if this weren't the case, the 15% doesn't cover the costs a retailer incurs in restocking the unit--checking it out to see if it works, making sure all the parts and manuals are intact, etc.

Best Buy doesn't "make" any money on returned merchandise. The 15% only offsets some of its costs. :rolleyes:
If I may ask you, who do you work for ?

They won't even spend 10$ worth of employee time on inspection etc. And 15% happens to be $150 on that Samsung. You have to be really thinking we are all very dumb here to write something so blatantly wrong ....
post #85 of 190
The original issue was that the BB location refused a return because they claimed that the BR player was "computer" rather than a DVD player for purposes of the return policy. That incident was resolved.

If the stores are now placing stickers on the boxes to tell customers of the policy then that is a fair practice and no one should complain.

The real money they make or lose on the individual product is not the issue, the return policy generates sales for them in the long run. To make an exception on this category is unusual and is indicative of a problem.

The point is what does it say about the high level of returns.
post #86 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPanther95
Didn't you return your HD-DVD player?
No as a matter of fact I did not!
I didn't even buy one in the first place.

I'm waiting for the PS3 & it will be my first next gen DVD player, that way no matter what happens in the format war I won't get screwed over.

I have seen both formats displayed at several B&M stores in my area, at most of the stores I was not at all impressed with either format they didn't hit me with the WOW factor my SXRD & upconverting DVD player did.
The local CC had a Blu-Ray set up with a SXRD & I was impressed with that pic.

The problem is both of these formats have IMO been released too soon, the hardware & software is not up to the quality it should be.
Therfore I will get the PS3 but I'll wait until the hardware & software is improved before I jump on either bandwagon.
post #87 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoose
No as a matter of fact I did not!
I didn't even buy one in the first place.
Then why did you vote that you returned the unit here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=696555

:confused:
post #88 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoose
No as a matter of fact I did not!
I didn't even buy one in the first place.

I'm waiting for the PS3 & it will be my first next gen DVD player, that way no matter what happens in the format war I won't get screwed over.

I have seen both formats displayed at several B&M stores in my area, at most of the stores I was not at all impressed with either format they didn't hit me with the WOW factor my SXRD & upconverting DVD player did.
The local CC had a Blu-Ray set up with a SXRD & I was impressed with that pic.

The problem is both of these formats have IMO been released too soon, the hardware & software is not up to the quality it should be.
Therfore I will get the PS3 but I'll wait until the hardware & software is improved before I jump on either bandwagon.
Do you feed your SXRD and HD media?
post #89 of 190
OUCH!! The "Moose" has been caught! ;)
post #90 of 190
TheMoose "No as a matter of fact I did not! I didn't even buy one in the first place."

Then why did you vote that you returned the unit here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=696555

Oh what a tangled web we weave..... :eek:
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