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Atlantic Technology owner's thread. - Page 28

post #811 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalJackson View Post

Received a support response from Jason Marcure regarding my 1400 sr-z speaker issues this morning. Apparently, my "listening habits" are too much for these speakers. Disappointing that a set of speakers that retails for $450 would blow out so easily. I only paid $150 for mine used, but pretty much wasted money. His support response below -
That's unfortunate.
I have a 7.1 370THX which is comparable to the 6200. I also have a 2400 system.
I knew how the 2400 sounds at reference volume and opted to pick up some 270thx (use same drivers, just less) surrounds and LR for the heights and wides in my 370thx. I figured since they are just dipoles I could use any.
Sucks that using their "labeled" height speaker failed. I've taken the 2400s to 110w or 0db on my onkyo and they lost clarity but no drama.
I would say pick up some 4400 or 4200 maybe even 2400 surrounds. If you don't mind the aesthetic differences you could even go with older THX systems. I just got a set of 370 dipoles under 100. Or forget heights, personally I almost never use them. Unless you can run full 9.1 at once.
Good luck with it. Let us know what route you take.
Edited by shaneb0422 - 6/17/13 at 11:50am
post #812 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaneb0422 View Post

If you don't mind the aesthetic differences you could even go with older THX systems. I just got a set of 370 dipoles under 100.

That's a great idea. I still have my previous Atlantic Tech set, the 350s. The surrounds are just sitting on a shelf right now. I had not considered them because I was worried about tonally matching the 8200e's...figured the newer 1400 sr-z would be designed with this in mind. Since the sound is all ambient, I don't think it really matters. Aesthetics are not a problem either...my front stage area has a GOM covered false wall...all speakers hidden. I'll at least give them a try and hopefully not blow them up as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaneb0422 View Post

Or forget heights, personally I almost never use them. Unless you can run full 9.1 at once.
Good luck with it. Let us know what route you take.

I've read that from several posts while researching heights and that's how I assumed I would feel about it. However, after trying them for the 2 hrs, I really like what they were doing in my room/setup. I also added some 4400 LR wide speakers set up exactly to the Audyssey spec...ear height and 60 degrees. To my surprise, after comparing both using Audyssey DSX, I much preferred the results I was getting with the height speakers versus the wide...until I blew them up. Sometime later when the budget allows, I'll move up to a 11.2 channel pre-amp so I can run it all together.
post #813 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalJackson View Post

That's a great idea. I still have my previous Atlantic Tech set, the 350s. The surrounds are just sitting on a shelf right now. I had not considered them because I was worried about tonally matching the 8200e's...figured the newer 1400 sr-z would be designed with this in mind. Since the sound is all ambient, I don't think it really matters. Aesthetics are not a problem either...my front stage area has a GOM covered false wall...all speakers hidden. I'll at least give them a try and hopefully not blow them up as well.

The plot thickens and my Atlantic Technology graveyard grows a bit more. I mounted my old 354 sr surrounds in the same spot where I had the 1400 sr-z, then ran Audyssey to get everything set right. After Audyssey, changed height crossover level from 110 Hz to 200 Hz. Audyssey again set height channel levels to +1 db versus - 6 db for left and right...adjusted heights to -2 db.

After making changes, listened to music for about 45 minutes in Neo Audyssey DSX mode...then had one of the 354 sr woofers blow out! I was using Adele 19 as my test source and mostly listening to tracks with her vocals backed by light instrumentation. I kept cycling through Audyssey height and wide mode also comparing to regular Neo 6.1. I did put my head up close to the height speakers at one point and was surprised how much sound is output from the height speakers...a good bit of vocals were coming from heights.

Not sure what to make of it at this point. I used those 354 surrounds for 15 years before switching my system to the 8200e's. Functioning as side surrounds, they have seen a lot of loud movie watching action and a good bit of music listening via multi-channel stereo as welll.

Also worth noting that I did not really like the height effect using the 354 sr speakers. Having those in the mix gave a overall more harsh sound...I preferred the wides in this instance. I much preferred the height effects I was getting with the 1400 sr-z...blending smoothly with the other speakers.
post #814 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalJackson View Post

The plot thickens and my Atlantic Technology graveyard grows a bit more. I mounted my old 354 sr surrounds in the same spot where I had the 1400 sr-z, then ran Audyssey to get everything set right. After Audyssey, changed height crossover level from 110 Hz to 200 Hz. Audyssey again set height channel levels to +1 db versus - 6 db for left and right...adjusted heights to -2 db.

After making changes, listened to music for about 45 minutes in Neo Audyssey DSX mode...then had one of the 354 sr woofers blow out! I was using Adele 19 as my test source and mostly listening to tracks with her vocals backed by light instrumentation. I kept cycling through Audyssey height and wide mode also comparing to regular Neo 6.1. I did put my head up close to the height speakers at one point and was surprised how much sound is output from the height speakers...a good bit of vocals were coming from heights.

Not sure what to make of it at this point. I used those 354 surrounds for 15 years before switching my system to the 8200e's. Functioning as side surrounds, they have seen a lot of loud movie watching action and a good bit of music listening via multi-channel stereo as welll.

Also worth noting that I did not really like the height effect using the 354 sr speakers. Having those in the mix gave a overall more harsh sound...I preferred the wides in this instance. I much preferred the height effects I was getting with the 1400 sr-z...blending smoothly with the other speakers.


Have you considered the possibility that maybe your 80 Watt amps can not effectively power your speakers and that in essence you are UNDERPOWERED for the given listening levels thus somehow clipping/distorting and damaging your drivers! confused.gif

I would try a different external amp or maybe you can reassign the internal amps to run the heights for a test?

You would think that the those 80 watt amps would suffice but who knows!


...Glenn smile.gif
Edited by Glenn Baumann - 6/19/13 at 3:43pm
post #815 of 865
Oh noooooo
I have a 350 set I don't use besides my other 4 AT sets and I couldn't imagine blowing any of these speakers with clean 200wrms. It's surprisingly difficult to blow speakers with clean power and dynamic audio (not tones). Given that the 350 is 4 ohm I would almost expect your amp to go into protect before a speaker would blow.
I feel bad. Like I broke your speaker.
The only time I have ever blown speakers is plugging them into wall sockets on purpose or sending clipped signals or square waves.
I'm not smart enough to diagnose this. I can only offer guesses that would require more trial and error. I recommend giving AT a message. Or even your receiver manufacturer.
Again. Sorry :-/ Ill take one of my speakers and pump 150w into it on the same song and see what happens. I have enough extras I can spare one.
post #816 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baumann View Post



You would think that the those 80 watt amps would suffice but who knows!

It seems unlikely, especially given that the 354 sr is a 4 ohm speaker, so amp power is 125 watts per channel for those. But, anything is possible at this point. The amp has 5 channels, but only 2 are being used at one time since 2 other channels are driving the wide speakers and my pre amp won't run both at the same time. The wide speakers are Atlantic Tech 4400 LR, larger speakers that take more power to drive..same amp is running those without issues...so far. I might try plugging the wides (4400 LR) into the height channels and compare what sound comes out.
post #817 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaneb0422 View Post

Oh noooooo
I have a 350 set I don't use besides my other 4 AT sets and I couldn't imagine blowing any of these speakers with clean 200wrms. It's surprisingly difficult to blow speakers with clean power and dynamic audio (not tones). Given that the 350 is 4 ohm I would almost expect your amp to go into protect before a speaker would blow.
I feel bad. Like I broke your speaker.
The only time I have ever blown speakers is plugging them into wall sockets on purpose or sending clipped signals or square waves.
I'm not smart enough to diagnose this. I can only offer guesses that would require more trial and error. I recommend giving AT a message. Or even your receiver manufacturer.
Again. Sorry :-/ Ill take one of my speakers and pump 150w into it on the same song and see what happens. I have enough extras I can spare one.

No worries, you're not to blame. It does make me a bit sad. I've had those speakers for a long time. I'm sure I can eventually dig up some replacements if I want to keep my set complete.

I'm just really surprised that I damaged 2 sets of speakers so easily via the height channel. No sign of distress...one minute working fine, then crackling static sounds.
post #818 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalJackson View Post

No worries, you're not to blame. It does make me a bit sad. I've had those speakers for a long time. I'm sure I can eventually dig up some replacements if I want to keep my set complete.

I'm just really surprised that I damaged 2 sets of speakers so easily via the height channel. No sign of distress...one minute working fine, then crackling static sounds.
Actually. I have a 250 system also and they use the same exact midbass driver as the 350 in the surround. Mine are spoken for but they can be had for very cheap if given the right patience on eBay. Just occasionally look on there. Swap the drivers. Shoot I am giving away the 250 5.0 at 100 bucks to someone.
Some for sale now but they wants an obscene amount.
On the crackling sound, this happened even after removing the speaker and playing something else? And at reference volume? I've taken the 350s there and beyond more than once. Has to be something other than the speaker I'm thinking. But what....

Oh and if anyone has a 450e set sitting in their closet ill buy it!!!
Edited by shaneb0422 - 6/19/13 at 8:07pm
post #819 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaneb0422 View Post

Actually. I have a 250 system also and they use the same exact midbass driver as the 350 in the surround.

Thanks, good to know. I see those pop up on Ebay frequently. 250 system was my first set of Atlantic Tech speakers...sold them years ago to a friend who is still using them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaneb0422 View Post


On the crackling sound, this happened even after removing the speaker and playing something else? And at reference volume? I've taken the 350s there and beyond more than once. Has to be something other than the speaker I'm thinking. But what....

I can only assume there is a lot more sound coming from the heights than the surround channels...seems ridiculous height channel would be blowing these speakers out. I'm going to do a test tonight and hook up my back 8220eSR speakers to the height channel...turn all other amp channels off and see what I get.
post #820 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalJackson View Post

Thanks, good to know. I see those pop up on Ebay frequently. 250 system was my first set of Atlantic Tech speakers...sold them years ago to a friend who is still using them.
I can only assume there is a lot more sound coming from the heights than the surround channels...seems ridiculous height channel would be blowing these speakers out. I'm going to do a test tonight and hook up my back 8220eSR speakers to the height channel...turn all other amp channels off and see what I get.
I will agree. There is a lot of content up there. In DSX the content is primarily derived from the sides and front lr channels. In PLIIx it is from the surrounds. However, there is not likely a lot more content than the surrounds I wouldn't think. I don't know. I'm going to do the same thing tonight. I have 270 for heights and wides which I thought the 350 was better. I'll see what happens as well.
post #821 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaneb0422 View Post

I will agree. There is a lot of content up there. In DSX the content is primarily derived from the sides and front lr channels. In PLIIx it is from the surrounds. However, there is not likely a lot more content than the surrounds I wouldn't think. I don't know. I'm going to do the same thing tonight. I have 270 for heights and wides which I thought the 350 was better. I'll see what happens as well.

Contacted Atlantic Tech again and received interesting response...suspect it could be a amp issue -

"Without dissecting the driver it's tough to be sure. Possible harmonic
distortion in the form of fouled up output stage maybe. Or DC offset or high
frequency oscillations. Both are inaudible. DC offset can be detected by
checking the output of the amp with a DC volt meter. There should be no DC.

The 1400SRZ has worked in 8200 systems as a height speaker. I don't
recommend it but it could work. The 345 will definitely work. Neither
speaker should be damaged from the way you have the system set up. The 345
is THX certified. It's an old out of date certification, but it's still
rated for SPL and distortion. It should not have blown a woofer.

If you have a cheap pair of speakers kicking around and try them and they
blow up, you know it's the amp. "
post #822 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalJackson View Post

Contacted Atlantic Tech again and received interesting response...suspect it could be a amp issue -

"Without dissecting the driver it's tough to be sure. Possible harmonic
distortion in the form of fouled up output stage maybe. Or DC offset or high
frequency oscillations. Both are inaudible. DC offset can be detected by
checking the output of the amp with a DC volt meter. There should be no DC.

The 1400SRZ has worked in 8200 systems as a height speaker. I don't
recommend it but it could work. The 345 will definitely work. Neither
speaker should be damaged from the way you have the system set up. The 345
is THX certified. It's an old out of date certification, but it's still
rated for SPL and distortion. It should not have blown a woofer.

If you have a cheap pair of speakers kicking around and try them and they
blow up, you know it's the amp. "
Very interesting. Those are the reasons I wish I was smarter.
I took the time to see how the front heights sound compared to surrounds etc. I normally listened in PLiiz but in DSX it gets a ton of content. I was surprised. Regardless I took it past reference and had no issues.
What receiver do you have?
post #823 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaneb0422 View Post

Very interesting. Those are the reasons I wish I was smarter.
I took the time to see how the front heights sound compared to surrounds etc. I normally listened in PLiiz but in DSX it gets a ton of content. I was surprised. Regardless I took it past reference and had no issues.
What receiver do you have?

Thanks for testing on your end. Receiver I'm using is a Marantz AV7005 pre-amp with Emotiva amps (XPA5, UPA2 and UPA500) driving the speakers.

Ran a set of really old Technic speakers using the amp last night for over an hour at reference
level...no issues.

I think it all comes down to the surround mode I was using. I also ran my
wides last night with all other channels turned off. Turns out Neo Music DSX
height and wide outputs sound almost identical to the left and right stereo
image, not the ambient sound I was expecting. It's very similar to what you get
when running in multi channel stereo mode...almost identical output through
surrounds as left and right mains. My wides are 4400LR and I would think much
better suited to handle that kind of output compared to either the 1400 sr-z or
the 354SR. I think expecting either pair of surround speakers I tried to match
the output of my much larger mains is unrealistic.

In comparison, running Neo Movie DSX gives height and wide output that is much
more like I would expect...more of a ambient echo.

So, I think the Atlantic Tech 1400 sr-z could work just fine using a mode like Dolby PLIIz, but for something like Neo DSX, there's just too much output to run alongside larger mains like the 8200e.
post #824 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalJackson View Post

Thanks for testing on your end. Receiver I'm using is a Marantz AV7005 pre-amp with Emotiva amps (XPA5, UPA2 and UPA500) driving the speakers.
It's very similar to what you get
when running in multi channel stereo mode...
So, I think the Atlantic Tech 1400 sr-z could work just fine using a mode like Dolby PLIIz, but for something like Neo DSX, there's just too much output to run alongside larger mains like the 8200e.
I experienced the same. The dsx mode nearly replicated the LRs. Where pliiz was far more ambience.
To be honest. Having run the 270thx for height for a while now (just got LRs for wides) I am still surprised the 350 wouldn't handle it. Though I typically used pliiz.
The thing about reference is that it varies based on room size. So regardless of that you are still only sending 80w to a speaker designed to handle a test tone at higher wattage. Which is what is so confusing still. The 350 surround should take double that continuous where movies and music is dynamic power not continuous.

One thing I do know is that music versions of these modes sends more low frequency content to surrounds. I don't know if that matters due to crossovers

Well. I still feel like we haven't quite pinned it. On another note I am way jealous of your setup!

Do you have a digital multi meter, have you tried measuring for DC voltage at full output with speakers unplugged like AT suggrsted?
post #825 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaneb0422 View Post

One thing I do know is that music versions of these modes sends more low frequency content to surrounds. I don't know if that matters due to crossovers

That's where I'm thinking the issue might be. A lot of low end going into 4" drivers trying to match the mains.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaneb0422 View Post

On another note I am way jealous of your setup!

Thanks, I feel fortunate to have it...never thought I would own such a nice setup. I've been a big Atlantic Tech fan since I bought the system 250 back around '96...remember lusting after the system 8200e when it came out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaneb0422 View Post


Do you have a digital multi meter, have you tried measuring for DC voltage at full output with speakers unplugged like AT suggrsted?

I have a multi meter, but is a cheapo and from what I've read about measuring DC offset, it won't do the job. I had the wide channel running a few hours this weekend using the same amp and still no issues. At this point, I'm just going to run the wides for now and keep on the lookout for some cheap 4400 SR surrounds to use as heights. Maybe some beat up ones will show up on Ebay...won't matter since they will be hidden.

Emotiva did respond and said that the amp should shut down if offset or ocsillation occus...their response below -

"Our protection circuit should shut the amp down if any condition such as offset or oscillation occurs. The protection looks at DC offset, excessive high frequency output that might indicate heavy clipping or oscillation and current at the output transistors that might indicate too low of a load impedance."

You mentioned the system 250 has same woofer as system 350. I looked at the specs and appears all speakers in 250 line use a 4" woofer. I assume these are all identical and would work as a replacement for the 354 SR surround?
post #826 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalJackson View Post

That's where I'm thinking the issue might be. A lot of low end going into 4" drivers trying to match the mains.
Thanks, I feel fortunate to have it...never thought I would own such a nice setup. I've been a big Atlantic Tech fan since I bought the system 250 back around '96...remember lusting after the system 8200e when it came out.

You mentioned the system 250 has same woofer as system 350. I looked at the specs and appears all speakers in 250 line use a 4" woofer. I assume these are all identical and would work as a replacement for the 354 SR surround?
I know what you mean. The 8200 comes up for a few grand but I just can't bring myself to spend it compared to the 370's. not yet anyway. I wish there was someone in DFW to audition them
I ran wides for the first time this week and it looks like ill be getting a new receiver. I would kill to run wides and rears at the same time. Despite my displeasure in the way audyssey gets the info for the wides it still was enjoyable and way more expansive.

I attached a pic of the 250sr vs c/lr. Unfortunately it isn't the same driver. The c/lr drivers are similar looking to the newer lines-silver IMG style but with a foam surround. I'd almost say its worse that the driver in the surround for that set....weird.
post #827 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaneb0422 View Post

I attached a pic of the 250sr vs c/lr. Unfortunately it isn't the same driver. The c/lr drivers are similar looking to the newer lines-silver IMG style but with a foam surround. I'd almost say its worse that the driver in the surround for that set....weird.

Thanks for the image. So, the 250 SR is the driver match for the 354 SR?
post #828 of 865
Anyone have a well setup set of AT 8200e's withing 4-500 miles of Ohio that they could demo for me?

Thanks,
Scott
post #829 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

Anyone have a well setup set of AT 8200e's withing 4-500 miles of Ohio that they could demo for me?

Thanks,
Scott

Yeah, what Scott said ^^^. smile.gif
post #830 of 865
No one? How about and 8200e's anywhere in 1++ hour driving distance of:
Atlanta, Austin, San Jose, Connecticut or NYC
post #831 of 865
Bummer. I have a full 8200e system in a dedicated theater, but I'm in Minneapolis. If you're in the "neighborhood", let me know and I can give you a test drive!
post #832 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

No one? How about and 8200e's anywhere in 1++ hour driving distance of:
Atlanta, Austin, San Jose, Connecticut or NYC

I'm right outside of Austin and have a 8200e set for mains and surrounds running with a pair of Danley DTS 10's in a dedicated room. "Well setup" - I guess that depends on how you define it. Lot of things done right with the room but still have some unfinished details like treating first reflection points that make the room a bit more live than preferred. Fiber optic ceiling panels going up next 2-3 weeks which should help a bit.
post #833 of 865
Awesome, thank you. I understand you got a PM from Tony. Thanks again very much!.

Anyone else?
post #834 of 865
Great deal on the AT-1 & AT-2 at Outlaw Audio where you can get the Stereophile Class B rated towers for $1998 plus shipping or the bookshelves for $1498 plus shipping. Plus, you get Outlaw's superb Stereophile Class C rated RR2150 2 channel stereo receiver thrown in to boot at that price!

That appears to be an incredible deal for a 2 channel system, especially for the towers that retail for $3000 IIRC.

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/rr2150.html
post #835 of 865
I don't know if this question has been asked yet. I am thinking of buying a set of 5.1 Atlantic tec 8200e and at later date 7.2. I do under stand the more power u feed the speakers the better sound u get from them. I have the onkyo tx-nr5010 I'm guessing 140 wats per channel. Will that be ok to use with those speaker and not harm them in anyway feeding them less power????!!!
Edited by essexboy - 8/25/13 at 6:02am
post #836 of 865
No, it won't harm them at all. Just don't turn them up to the point where they begin to distort and you'll be just fine.
post #837 of 865
essexboy,

That's 145 watts all channel into 8 ohms with 2 channels driven. What on earth does that mean????? http://www.onkyousa.com/Products/model.php?m=TX-NR5010&class=Receiver

I'd dig some more to be sure that you've got enough power.

I'm running Rotel amps with 200 watts per channel at 8 ohms. These speakers, correct me if I'm wrong is 6 ohms.
post #838 of 865
That's the problem I am not sure
post #839 of 865
According to the manual it's stable down to 3 ohms dynamic power and will put out a max of 400W at that impedance. At 6 ohms you'll have 220 W. There's plenty of power. If you're worried about having more then just get an external amp for the front three channels.
post #840 of 865
I think u have answer my question I was just worried having a to low power for the speaker thanks for the help
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