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Industry Insiders Q&A Thread: only Questions to insiders please - Page 95  

post #2821 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe-Six-Pack
Is that 2 million for North America and Japan since they said the rest of the world won't get any until spring of 2007?
Yep.
post #2822 of 4623
Amirm,

a recent article at ign stating that 1080p on 360 will be crippled bc of its analog only out puts, when a microsoft rep at x06 was asked if 360 could transmist an all digital 1080p signal the rep had no comment. the article was just updated today stating that the microsoft rep came back and said yes that the 360 can ACTUALLY OUTPUT AN ALL DIGITAL SIGNAL SO HDMI CABLE ARE VERY POSSIBLE. Pls comment amirm here the link to the article http://gear.ign.com/articles/735/735860p1.html
post #2823 of 4623
common Amirm you can tell us that an hdmi cable is gonna come down the road
post #2824 of 4623
Question

HP seems to announce an external HD DVD drive. Does that mean AACS could be finalized before this holiday?

Thanks
post #2825 of 4623
The problem isn't just the fact that the 'DVD' name is being USED but the fact that Best Buy is *LITERALLY* claiming Blu-ray to be the 'Next Generation DVD'. Blu-ray has nothing to do with DVD, and while it does offer backwards compatibility with DVDs using that particular phrase sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Now, I've got nothing wrong with BR purporting to be '6 times the resolution of DVD' or anything like that, but attempting to muscle out the *TRUE* 'Next Generation DVD' (HD DVD) by claiming your format IS the next gen DVD isn't acceptable. At best, BR can claim 'Next Generation HD Discs' or 'High Def Disc' or something like that, but *NOT* 'Next Generation DVD'

edit: I hope some of you insiders with law degrees read this post. (And act on it!) It's bad enough that the CSRs continue to push one format over another at Best Buy. The problem with this war is that for a real winner to emerge you would need:

Sony's marketing COMBINED with Toshiba's HD DVD technology!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjack
While you can't use the DVD logo without licensing or permission, "DVD" is probably too commonly used to defend against anything any longer. You have to defend it everywhere, not just one particular usage that you don't like, and be defending it as soon as possible, not 10 years later. Or perhaps the trademark symbol is too small to see without looking closely at it.
post #2826 of 4623
Sorry for not reading the whole thread but I have a question for amirm or anyone else knowledgeable enough to answer it:

Is component connection capable of handling 1080p at 60fps?

I have googled the term but can't seem to get a definite/solid link to state the above. Thanks
post #2827 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by builty
Perhaps nyber you can answer the question of whether the add-on drive can be used on a PC???
At the risk of raising the ire of the mods- amirm answered this yesterday- see this link and the post above it. Cliff notes- they haven't done anything to deliberately make this impossible (standard USB2 connection) and it hasn't been tested appropriately, caveat emptor.
post #2828 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by boden11
The problem isn't just the fact that the 'DVD' name is being USED but the fact that Best Buy is *LITERALLY* claiming Blu-ray to be the 'Next Generation DVD'.
Sounds like the beef is with Best Buy, not Blu-ray? "Next generation" doesn't imply any compatibility or relationship with a current solution, especially in the hi-tech industry. So there can be (and usually are) several "next generation" solutions of a technology. As long as the trademark info is indicated for DVD, there's probably not much that can be done. Every person and company is entitled to their opinion.
post #2829 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by crashoveridema0
the article was just updated today stating that the microsoft rep came back and said yes that the 360 can ACTUALLY OUTPUT AN ALL DIGITAL SIGNAL SO HDMI CABLE ARE VERY POSSIBLE. Pls comment amirm here the link to the article http://gear.ign.com/articles/735/735860p1.html
The Microsoft official didn't say anything about that and the comment that "Microsoft could conceivably release an HDMI cable" was added by IGN. What the Microsoft official said was that a digital signal was possible. That doesn't mean much though since AACS content requires HDCP encryption on a digital signal. So even based on the optimistic assumption that the Xbox 360 is capable of sending out a DVI signal if the Xbox 360 doesn't support HDCP encryption than I could somewhat understand why Microsoft wouldn't bother to release a DVI adaptor cable.

Also Amir has confirmed that HDMI is not possible with the Xbox 360 and to add to that would not be allowed by the HDMI specs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cavalry12
Is component connection capable of handling 1080p at 60fps?
Yes, and both the PS3 and Xbox 360 will be capable of 1080p60 output over component video for games. AACS though does not allow component video output over 1080i60.
post #2830 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul
The Microsoft official didn't say anything about that and the comment that "Microsoft could conceivably release an HDMI cable" was added by IGN. What the Microsoft official said was that a digital signal was possible. That doesn't mean much though since AACS content requires HDCP encryption on a digital signal. So even based on the optimistic assumption that the Xbox 360 is capable of sending out a DVI signal if the Xbox 360 doesn't support HDCP encryption than I could somewhat understand why Microsoft wouldn't bother to release a DVI adaptor cable.

Also Amir has confirmed that HDMI is not possible with the Xbox 360 and to add to that would not be allowed by the HDMI specs.


Yes, and both the PS3 and Xbox 360 will be capable of 1080p60 output over component video for games. AACS though does not allow component video output over 1080i60.
Actually Amir never answered you on your questions. So I take it his lack of answers justifies your claims that he in fact said it wasn't possible.

No I believe he stated that there was no architectural reason to not allow either HDMI or Analog 5.1 outputs, they just simply choose not to.

An Adaptor has to be sold with the device. HDMI adaptors can be included in new devices and sold to users of older units. This wouldn't break any HDMI agreement.
post #2831 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by orogogus
At the risk of raising the ire of the mods- amirm answered this yesterday- see this link and the post above it. Cliff notes- they haven't done anything to deliberately make this impossible (standard USB2 connection) and it hasn't been tested appropriately, caveat emptor.
Thanks, I missed that one.
post #2832 of 4623
to Richard paul

at gamefest a spokesman for microsoft said they are looking into making an hdmi adaptor for 360 and knowing microsoft im almost positive that we eventually see an all digital connection for 360 and honestly i dont care because when you compare hdmi to the 360s vga on a 106'' projected image you really cant tell the differnence at all i only care about hdmi, one for lossless audio (all though i would love to see the analog connections) and because of the acss image token, but if microsoft can find a way around that, which they undoubtly are, without using hdmi great. I just cant wait to see oblivion to finally be rendered in its native 1080p!
post #2833 of 4623
dear Amirm

I have a question, lets say an hd dvd realse decides to put dolby true hd 7.1 as the audio on the disc will the 360 add-on output that as dolby digital ex or just regular dolby digital because i would be very happy if i got those two other channels instead of just 5.1.
post #2834 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cjplay
While I've not done this concert, I've done some in the past and they all represent a VERY difficult encode. Add to that any level of interactivity and high-end audio and you'll crop the PBR to low 20's or even 19Mbps. 200 man hours is over 2 weeks of 2-shift work which is usually only necessary for us on IME/TrueHD combos, so I'd consider it a little excessive. I'd be worried that this title's extremem amount of flashing is preventing them from finishing, but I'd look to Rundown's club sequence for something close. However, I'd think they'd shoot this guy at 1080i59, but would hope they chose 1080p30... Good luck to the compression team working on that.

Cjplay.
Hey Cjplay

They chose 1080P30. They are planning Dolby TrueHD with 48/24 audio for both BD and HD DVD. Should be an interesting demo. Rob mentioned that they may move to a BD50 so they can double the bitrate to get a picture image. That will be a VERY interesting comparison if it happens.
post #2835 of 4623
Did you not understand the problem with 'Next Generation DVD' ? While it is conceivably acceptable if DVD was done with, in reality HD DVD is the next generation DVD!!! It'd be like if Apple came along with their new OS and called it the 'Next Generation Windows' ... are you getting it now?? HD DVD is part of the DVD forum. HD DVD can EXCLUSIVELY claim the status of being the 'Next Generation DVD'

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjack
Sounds like the beef is with Best Buy, not Blu-ray? "Next generation" doesn't imply any compatibility or relationship with a current solution, especially in the hi-tech industry. So there can be (and usually are) several "next generation" solutions of a technology. As long as the trademark info is indicated for DVD, there's probably not much that can be done. Every person and company is entitled to their opinion.
post #2836 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering
Rob mentioned that they may move to a BD50 so they can double the bitrate to get a picture image. That will be a VERY interesting comparison if it happens.
Are you saying they are planning to do two different encodes, with the BD one taking advantage of the extra bandwidth?
post #2837 of 4623
Amir
Are there drivers available for the HD DVD add on for Vista or XP or MPC?

With the Toshiba notebook supporting an integrated HD DVD drive, and Intervideo providing the player software, can we convince you and the XBOX folks to encourage the support of this drive on not only the Xbox 360 but also on the PC?

Is there something about the XBOX 360 add on HD DVD drive usb connection that makes this a major task?

Is the HD DVD playback Market on PC considered by the HD DVD group to be at least as strategic as the CE/Games sector considering the potential for a massive volumes?

Thanks
John
post #2838 of 4623
kj - sounds like wishfull thinking on your part - no one can use "bluray DVD" to describe "bluray disc". We've established that DVD is a trademark.

Amir - I have a question: It appears that Lions Gate has PULLED their third wave of Bluray releases until sometime in 2007.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...ray_Titles/263

It is rumoured that they are doing so, to switch their encoding to VC1.

Now, am I correct in my recollection that the only way any one can curently encode VC1 for Bluray is to do what Warner is doing - that is, to encode VC1 for HD DVD and then use the MS conversion tool to repackage the HD DVD encode for Bluray?

Is this correct?

This seems very significant to me...
post #2839 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVDoctor
Amir
Are there drivers available for the HD DVD add on for Vista or XP or MPC?
Do you want the bad news first or good news? :)

Here is the bad news. We don't provide any drivers for PC use.

Here is maybe the good news. The lower level layers in the HD DVD spec are similar to current optical drives. So some things should work.

Quote:
Is there something about the XBOX 360 add on HD DVD drive usb connection that makes this a major task?
I don't know really as we just have not tested this scenario.

Quote:
Is the HD DVD playback Market on PC considered by the HD DVD group to be at least as strategic as the CE/Games sector considering the potential for a massive volumes?

Thanks
John
The main focus for us is the 360. The market for the PC will be served by many other companies whereas when it comes to Xbox, we have to do the work or it never gets done.
post #2840 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by boden11
Did you not understand the problem with 'Next Generation DVD' ? While it is conceivably acceptable if DVD was done with, in reality HD DVD is the next generation DVD!!! It'd be like if Apple came along with their new OS and called it the 'Next Generation Windows' ... are you getting it now?? HD DVD is part of the DVD forum. HD DVD can EXCLUSIVELY claim the status of being the 'Next Generation DVD'
I thought of similar examples on the way home that also did not make much sense. I used Linux instead of Apple and wondered what MS's response would be. Duh. :) But I still have my doubts as long as the DVD has the trademark info shown. The phrase "next generation DVD" has been already commonly used for a several years to refer to any format after DVD. As another example, SACD and DVD-Audio were introduced as next generation CD. My only point is that things are never as clean-cut as we think they are. :)
post #2841 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam
Now, am I correct in my recollection that the only way any one can curently encode VC1 for Bluray is to do what Warner is doing - that is, to encode VC1 for HD DVD and then use the MS conversion tool to repackage the HD DVD encode for Bluray?

Is this correct?
Currently yes.
post #2842 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
Currently yes.
Can you give a technical explanation of what it means to have to "encode VC1 for HD-DVD" first, then convert to BD?
post #2843 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
Here is the bad news. We don't provide any drivers for PC use.

Maybe TSST could provide a driver or someone could modify an existing one?
post #2844 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam
kj - sounds like wishfull thinking on your part - no one can use "bluray DVD" to describe "bluray disc".
I was talking about the use of "next generation DVD", not "bluray DVD". I agree with you on "bluray DVD". Although you could have a hard time stopping 1 million sales people and j6p from saying it verbally. :) That was a joke for those with no sense of humor. :rolleyes:
post #2845 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
Currently yes.
If Disney starts using VC-1 (as Joe Kane suggested), will they have to encode to some of the lower limitations (GOP, buffer size, and bandwidth) of HD DVD and then use the conversion tool in order to release VC-1 content on Blu-ray?

--Darin
post #2846 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Zuber
Can you give a technical explanation of what it means to have to "encode VC1 for HD-DVD" first, then convert to BD?
Sure. Our VC-1 encoder creates elementary streams which then get multiplexed (mixed) using Toshiba tools for HD DVD. Since our one and only customer was HD DVD last year, we designed the default format output compatible with this workflow.

Subsequently, we got interest to create BD streams. Instead of redesigning the tool, we wrote a reformatting one that can modify the HD DVD bitstream/output to be compliant with BD authoring. This has the added benefit that one can encode once, but target both formats.
post #2847 of 4623
Hi Amir

Ive been following the latter part of this thread, I don't understand a lot of it but its a great read!

I was wondering if you could answer a question? (sorry if this isn't on topic, but I hope it is!) With the 360 about to output at 1080p, and the VGA been the only way to achieve this due to the restrictions, it causes a bit of a problem for European users. With the VGA cable plugged in, some games, mostly BC games won't work because of the 50hz Pal standard. I can keep swapping my cables from VGA to component every time I want to play Halo, and back again to watch a film, but im worried about wear and tear on my 360 (not to mention its a bit of a pain, cable nightmare!) Is there any way to get around the problem so 50hz games will work with the VGA? Or can you unlock the region code so I can re-purchase those games from America, which will run at 60hz? I've asked technical support, but they can't help.

Im hoping for the best setup I can possibly get when the HD-DVD comes out, and enjoy the whole Xbox 360 experience, which so far has been stellar!

Many many thanks.

Nellus.
post #2848 of 4623
Hi Amir,
First of all, thanks for all the great insights you've given all of us. We're all very appreciative.

Second, I've read your previous posts stating that hd-dvd playback over component is limited to 1080i and that sd-dvd can't be upconverted over component due to restrictions in DVD CCA and AACS rules for DVD and HD DVD playback. However, in various interviews with other Microsoft brass (like shane kim) and insiders I keep reading that 1080p will be through component and VGA for both movies and games.

If there's no 360 HDMI output option for the add-on, Is it possible to get around the DVD CCA and AACS restrictions for DVD and HD DVD playback through component plugs?

It seems as though TV manufacturers place more importance for HD resolutions on HDMI rather than VGA and have left many of us 360 faithful's at an HD disadvantage because of it's lack of both hdmi and unrestricted component ouput.

thanks in advance.
post #2849 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyber
I'm not Amir, rather I'm someone on the Xbox team. I hope that's okay :)

You should be fine to buy an HD-DVD drive in Europe an hook it up to your US Xbox 360.
Hrrm.. there was at some point rumors to the effect that it might be possible to play SD-DVDs from the HD-DVD addon (which would be handy, leaving a game in the system, and just putting the movie in the second drive..).

If so, if I were to buy a European/Japanese (i.e. SD-DVD region 2) drive, could I magically watch my region 2 (PAL and NTSC) disc *originals* (not "backups") on the 360? I hate having to burn a copy just to make it region free.. and the 360 upscales pretty (note: it's only competition in my house is the xbox running XBMC, and DVD playback is sometimes wonky there - have a dead ps2, but it doesn't upscale anyways).

This is too much to hope for, but it would be AWSOME! :D
post #2850 of 4623
Looks like I'm going to have to use my PlayStation 3 for DVD upconversion (HDMI).
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