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Industry Insiders Q&A Thread: only Questions to insiders please - Page 20  

post #571 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t
I'm not well-versed in the audio implementation, but I believe that they get mixed as PCM, so you only get the proper audio mix if you allow the player to do the decoding. If anyone knows differently please correct...
Not bad. :) You're right, mixing has to be done as PCM using a specific sample rate (usually at the sample rate of the main audio to maintain quality). This can then be output via HDMI, sample rate converted to drive the analog audio outputs, and further sample rate converted to 48khz and encoded to DD or DTS for driving the SPDIF output.

Players may actually mix in a fourth audio stream for non-format-specific sounds, but that is a player implementation issue, nothing to do with the specs.
post #572 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin
I am confused. At one point, they talk about how much better things looked when the "noise reduction" was turned off. But then they said:



So I guess it didn't help much.

But most confusing was the final statement:



They just finished comparing Blu-ray to HD-DVD with a "modified" Samsung player with the noise-reduction turned off. They said the BD titles looked decidedly soft compared to HD-DVD. So why have "every confidence that Blu-ray will look fabulous when the Samsung "fixes" the noise-reduction problem"?

Its hard to tell if he is using the modified Samsung or not for the comparison.
post #573 of 4623
Amir...

Does HD DVD have a generic menu system to use for all HD DVDs, or are the menus different for different players and/or different movie studios?
post #574 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
I have GREAT news for those of you in Europe. I have finally permission to tell you that ALL Studio Canal titles will use 24p source encoding!!!

I told you to not worry :).
Great news - thank you! :)

Another related question: Will Studio Canal have access to the same HD master the US HD-DVDs are/will be created from? It's one of my fears that European HDVDs will be built from scans of inferior film copies.
post #575 of 4623
Carrying on the audio theme for a while, the following link from Dolby themselves indicates that most HD titles (doesn't specify either particular format) will actually prevent the higher definition audio bitstreams from being sent from the player.

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/techno...HD_avrs_3.html

So the question is does either Blu-ray or HD-DVD have such a facility built in and has it actually been used on any of the titles so far that carry sound with any of the new codecs?

Great news about 24p on European Canal HD-DVD titles, in the meantime while there aren't many 24p displays, does that mean european players will also use 3:2 pulldown as in the US and output 1080i at 60Hz? Presumably any kind of 50Hz output would be a bit difficult for the players? Does anyone know if European players will output 24p from day one seeing as Toshiba (for HD-DVD) has already stated that these will be 2nd generation machines?

Ian.

EDIT: On the subject of HDMI jitter, ARCAM in the UK have stated you could solve the jitter problems however to get it to audiophile levels is currently a very expensive solution.
post #576 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinch
did you guys ever address if there are legal issues with releasing a COMBO (blu/hddvd) player?
I would like to know this as well.

Thanks
post #577 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
I have GREAT news for those of you in Europe. I have finally permission to tell you that ALL Studio Canal titles will use 24p source encoding!
Good news! Studio Canal is a (relatively) small, local distributor, though. What about the 'real' studios? Will the HD-DVD titles from Warner, Universal and Paramount be also 24p in Europe?
post #578 of 4623
Does either format allow for higher framerate video? As studios slowly migrate to all digital pathways, then the cost of 48 or even 60 FPS video will be negligible and will greatly enhance detail in high motion scenes.
post #579 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal_Sunshine
Good news! Studio Canal is a (relatively) small, local distributor, though. What about the 'real' studios? Will the HD-DVD titles from Warner, Universal and Paramount be also 24p in Europe?
They may be a small studio, but they are a big distributor. They have exclusive distribution rights from some of the major studios that you list above. Indeed, in most cases, the US studios have completely sold of the rights to their movies overseas. This is how Toshiba published some BD studio movies in Japan in HD DVD!
post #580 of 4623
Ian, yes, the output of the player will be at 60, not 24.
post #581 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi
Great news - thank you! :)

Another related question: Will Studio Canal have access to the same HD master the US HD-DVDs are/will be created from? It's one of my fears that European HDVDs will be built from scans of inferior film copies.
Yes, they buy the masters from US studios. They do the encoding themselves though (really not, they use post houses like US).
post #582 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by skogan
I would like to know this as well.

Thanks
I know of no legal issues from HD DVD point of view for someone to also add BD playback. The reverse has to be answered by a BD insider.
post #583 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealEstateWagon
Amir...

Does HD DVD have a generic menu system to use for all HD DVDs, or are the menus different for different players and/or different movie studios?
No. Every studio creates their own. They seem to have picked a template and staying with that theme for now. But they could make them as simple and as fancy as they want to make them. iHD is just a platform. They use it to create what they like with it...
post #584 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_S
Great news about 24p on European Canal HD-DVD titles, in the meantime while there aren't many 24p displays, does that mean european players will also use 3:2 pulldown as in the US and output 1080i at 60Hz? Presumably any kind of 50Hz output would be a bit difficult for the players? Does anyone know if European players will output 24p from day one seeing as Toshiba (for HD-DVD) has already stated that these will be 2nd generation machines?
Ian,

Note I am no insider :)

1080i60 output for 24p content will be the norm. Yes, that does mean 3:2 pull down. Some don't mind (I have no major beef with 3:2 pull down judder), others really hate. However, 24p capable displays will start appearing. In five years 24p input and 48Hz, 72Hz, or 120Hz refreshing could be quite a normal characteristic for HD displays. In such a case, your 24p content library will be ready for these upcoming excellent displays.

However, initially 60Hz output from HD-DVD and Blu-ray will be the norm in Europe (for 24p content).

That's how I read things.

As for the European Toshiba and 24p output. I believe it's probably far to early to get an answer for that question. Will Europe get Gen 1 Toshi, Gen 1.5, or Gen 2?

If I was a betting man I would think Gen 1.5 Toshiba with 1080p60 output only would be the front runner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_S
EDIT: On the subject of HDMI jitter, ARCAM in the UK have stated you could solve the jitter problems however to get it to audiophile levels is currently a very expensive solution.
Hmmm. That's a little depressing. It does sound like that IEEE 1394 was the better audio transport. A pity since that appears to be a dead format for compressed HD Audio transportation (e.g DTD TrueHD).

Thanks.

Dennis.
post #585 of 4623
Amir, thank you very much more your input, I'm sure you get tired of hear that :p.

I don't know if you can answer any of these due to agreements, but it's worth a try:


-What are the chances we see Weinstein titles before the end of the year?



-Do you expect the same effort from Studio Canal that Warner and Universal gave with their titles (visuals + audio + extras)?



-Can you confirm or not confirm if Paramount titles will be bare-bones movie only or have other features? I think there is conflicting information on that.
post #586 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expletive
Amir, regarding the rumors of 5.1 TueHD on the HDA1 via firmware...

Logic is telling me that TrueHD would be less of a load on the processors in the A1 compared to DD+ because trueHD is less 'compressed' and would therefore require less processing to 'decompress'.

Is this a true statement? Are there any hardware issues keeping the A1 from supporting 5.1 True HD in the future?
No, it is not true in general. I know our lossless is very CPU intensive. The algorithms are very differen there. A good lossless codec has very long filters, attempting to find reduancy patterns that are far apart. As such, it becomes expensive to deocode them. Our 2-channel WMA Lossless for example, is more than 2X more MIPS hunger than normal WMA if my memory is right.

Quote:
BTW, got my D2 today! :D Looks like they've caught up with demand for the moment so yours may arrive shortly!
I hear ours should be here this week too! Will be a fun weekend :).
post #587 of 4623
Going to sleep guys. It is 1:15am. More answers tomorrow night :).
post #588 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
Yes, they buy the masters from US studios. They do the encoding themselves though (really not, they use post houses like US).
It seems I have to stop worrying now... :D
post #589 of 4623
It nice that right now HD DVD is region free but will this quote below change all that?

"The DVD Forum Seminar 2006 held in Tokyo, Japan on July 5 stated Regional coding is expected to be implemented for the HD DVD format but details are still under development."
post #590 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by crussader
I would also like to know the status/possibility of 5.1 TueHD implementation on the A1. This is the last hurdle to getting me off the fence and making a purchase.

Me too!!!!! anyone? (well an insider who knows)
post #591 of 4623
Hi Amir

I notice from the databases that some of the HD DVD titles that have already been released also have DI masters (such as Bourne and Cinderella Man) - do you know if they used the DI for these HD DVDs?

Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by kschmit2
The following titles are listed on IMDB as having at least a 2K digital intermediate:

http://www.imdb.com/SearchTechnical?...20Intermediate


In addition to that there are quite a few digital productions:

1080p pruductions:

http://www.imdb.com/SearchTechnical?for=1080p


1080i productions:

http://www.imdb.com/SearchTechnical?for=1080i

720p productions:

http://www.imdb.com/SearchTechnical?for=720p

DVC Pro HD (includes some titles already listed as 720p or 1080i/p):

http://www.imdb.com/SearchTechnical?for=DVC%20Pro%20HD

HDCAM and HDCAM SR (also includes some titles that are listed in other categories as well).

http://www.imdb.com/SearchTechnical?for=HDCAM



Note:
these listings are incomplete, and in some cases might even be wrong, but they should give you a rough idea of what is available now.
post #592 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
I know of no legal issues from HD DVD point of view for someone to also add BD playback. The reverse has to be answered by a BD insider.
I don't get the point here.
If one HD-DVD player can handle BD playback, it become a combo player. Reverse would be the same, so what's the point ?
If Sony don't want to sell combo players we won't care We'll buy another brand. But why would they do that ?
post #593 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
Going to sleep guys. It is 1:15am. More answers tomorrow night :).
Getting old, eh? :D
post #594 of 4623
To the experts...

Even though I don't have the numbers, there has to be more growth in the HD DVD market today, than in the UMD market.

So, why is it that a movie studio, not owned by Sony, can release a UMD movie, but not a HD DVD movie?

It just doesn't make any sense to me.
post #595 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
I have GREAT news for those of you in Europe. I have finally permission to tell you that ALL Studio Canal titles will use 24p source encoding!!!

I told you to not worry :).
Fabtastic! Dennis, I and others will be very pleased!

Also means that I may look to get a few non-US studio stuff over here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlb99
I'm extremely pleased, very much so. My original PAL regions thread has achieved its aim. Thanks again Amir.

Speaking of which, that thread still exists at

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5&page=1&pp=30

A note in that thread would be worthwhile, huge news indeed.

24p utopia ain't that far away :)

Dennis.
Congrats on a good campaign, Dennis!
post #596 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlb99
I'm extremely pleased, very much so. My original PAL regions thread has achieved its aim. Thanks again Amir.

Speaking of which, that thread still exists at

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5&page=1&pp=30

A note in that thread would be worthwhile, huge news indeed.

24p utopia ain't that far away :)

Dennis.
Congrats on a good campaign, Dennis!
post #597 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlb99
Some comments that folks have made is that HDMI audio actually is a regression sound wise compared to IEEE 1394/Firewire (which is much better jitter wise) and DenonLink. Hopefully companies can get on top of the HDMI audio issue, it appears that the industry wants HDMI to be the connection standard. I'm just hoping thats its audio qualities will improve.

Personally speaking, I'd rather have HDMI purely for digital video transportation, and IEEE 1394 for digital audio transportation (just from the information I've gleemed). Probably won't happen though.

Dennis.
To the insiders:

It seems to me that if the the audio is transmitted via HDMI as PCM, then it is just digital data, and will be sent as a perfect stream of 1s and 0s.

The jitter is introduced on conversion to analog, correct?

So the "jitter factor" would only exist in a couple places - 1) on the analog outputs of a player like the A1, etc 2) from a lower-end AVR when it converts the PCM to analog to send it to your speakers.

Is this correct? If so, if you send PCM over HDMI to a good AVR with very high quality clocks for the DACs, then Jitter should be a non-issue, right?
post #598 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjack
Not bad. :) You're right, mixing has to be done as PCM using a specific sample rate (usually at the sample rate of the main audio to maintain quality). This can then be output via HDMI, sample rate converted to drive the analog audio outputs, and further sample rate converted to 48khz and encoded to DD or DTS for driving the SPDIF output.

Players may actually mix in a fourth audio stream for non-format-specific sounds, but that is a player implementation issue, nothing to do with the specs.
I still see the audio coming from the HD DVD players as 96/24.

Does anyone know if these players are converting all the audio to 96/24 first and then doing the mixing at this common rate? The signs are that this is indeed what they are doing...
post #599 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam
Does anyone know if these players are converting all the audio to 96/24 first and then doing the mixing at this common rate? The signs are that this is indeed what they are doing...
Could be. When mixing, all the streams have to have the same sample rate. Perhaps they do it at 96/24 to oversample the analog outputs in most cases, then simply shove it out over HDMI also.
post #600 of 4623
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam
To the insiders:



Is this correct? If so, if you send PCM over HDMI to a good AVR with very high quality clocks for the DACs, then Jitter should be a non-issue, right?
No it's still an issue, not all high end systems reclock and secondly reclocking only partially fixes jitter.
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