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Just got Samsung BD, have had Toshiba - Page 2  

post #31 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by dylanneild
Have to agree with fire407 - reading your post it was pretty clear that you've got some sort of chip on your shoulder.

Honestly, if you can't see how crappy the BD titles that are out right now are than you need to get your eyes checked.

I'm not knocking the player or the format... but the BD launch titles are pure garbage. Bad transfers, bad encodes, all around bad.

Oh... and let's not forget that, with the exception of The Fifth Element, the movies themselves are total crap.... that doesn't help.
Thank you , couldnt have said it better myself

: Lets stop the biggest lie in home theater "Blur- Ray" :(
post #32 of 192
The problem most HD-DVD supporters have with Blue-Ray is that for so-long it has been shoved down everyones throats "How much better BR will be over HD-DVD"..and it isn't so...Now with the dismal performance being reported on these $1000 dollar players and with all of the delays bringing it to market,one would think it would be a better product...one would think the BR manufactures would have seen the short comings of the HD-DVD players and had made damn sure it displayed better with the initial movie releases..and was worth the extra $$$$$ before rushing everything to market.... but they didn't..So if some of the HD-DVD supporters seem a little over criticle..they are justified in doing so.

There's an old saying..and it goes like this..." A bird in the hand,is worth 2 in the bush"...and with the Toshiba's in aleady in many of our hands..at 1/2 the cost..I think you can see where I'm going with this....

It's a damn dirty shame that Sony allowed a "Not Ready For Prime Time" player out...and screwed the pooch on this by not getting theirs onto the market first..but that is the reality of the situation..at present....If the only way BR will compete with HD-DVD is thru outputting a 1080P signal..then they are will be behind till everyone has a 1080P setup..and this is not going to happen quickly...The Toshiba's output 720P great..and will upconvert standard DVD's to near HD quality..Couple that with those of us with superior sets..and the Toshiba comes out on top as the clear winner...can that change??? Sure...but the question is " When and how long before they do???"...if they wait too long..they will never catch up...

I think we all are getting a little disgruntled by being the manufacturers BETA testers..no-matter which camp we belong to...The Toshiba's have their faults too...long load times...crappy remotes..but the actual viewing of a HD-DVD movie is where it all boils down to....no matter if it's 720p 1080i or 1080p and for now the PQ is still better...

As to me purchasing a BR player...when I do..it will be in the form of a PS3 player for my childrens HT I just built..and I certainly hope it delivers on what has been promised...

Let's see what Round #2 gives us...hopefully both camps will get everything right...

Mac
post #33 of 192
I have seen sooooo many new users (< 1 month and < 20 posts) come in here and praise BR while people with ID's as old as 5 years and 1000+ posts who have been in the videophile realm for years claim just the opposite of the OP.

you decide

k
post #34 of 192
As ForestFan pointed out earlier, the conventional wisdom is that if you have a 720p display, it's important to set the output of the HD-A1 to 1080, not 720. If you haven't been doing that, you haven't seen the Toshiba at its best, and that might change your opinion as to relative picture quality. Please let us know.
post #35 of 192
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest Fan
Hi,

If I've read the above correctly your TV only accepts 720p for HD? Does that mean for the past 3 weeks you have been outputting 720p from the Toshiba HD-DVD player for the 8 HD-DVD titles you have watched so far?

No, it has been outputting 1080i. It looks very noticably better at 1080 than it does at 720.

Please don't try and figure out 'what's wrong' with my Toshiba. It's wonderful, don't get me wrong!! I just don't think the Samsung is bad either. It's pretty good!
post #36 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by bferr1
If Samsung were the only BD player due this year, I'd be right there with you. But at that high a price, and with several other players due soon, why settle for the first player to come along?
Cause there will be very little, if any, difference between these first generation players.
post #37 of 192
The Samsung definately has issues but to be fair most of the problems are the fault of the media. Lord of War is supposed to look very good. (I have not seen it yet.)

CaliforniaJay,

I think people are entitled to their opinions just as you were a few weeks ago when you were talking about how lousy of a product the Samsung was. So fortunately now you have both formats and can enjoy both camps.
post #38 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiningBengal
I agree with you entirely, CJ! I purchased a Sammy and am playing it back through a Sanyo PLV-Z2 front projector, 720p via HDMI. The Sammy is set to output at 720p. I am projecting on a 104" screen which is certainly big enough to disclose even the most minor issue.

I have seen only one movie so far that I think exploits the format sufficiently to convince me that Blu-ray is a superior product: The Fifth Element. I really didn't care for the movie, but all this nonsense suggesting that artifacts and other display issues are the fault of the player is just silly. This is NOT the case, or all movies would look bad--and clearly, they don't.

I have a Denon AVR 2807 receiver, and the LPCM sound is absolutely stunning through my Martin Logan 7.1 channel sound stage.

For those sitting on the fence, don't make judgements made on movie titles--for EITHER format. It's like judging the CD medium based on one or two recordings. Ridiculous.

There are NO problems with the Blu-ray format that wouldn't be shared with the HD-DVD format, and if there are problems with the Sammy, I haven't seen any evidence of them.

HD-DVD will not win the format wars. 17 of the 20 major studios are releasing Blu-ray movies in the near future. Many more hardware manufacturers have adopted the Blu-ray format than have the HD-DVD format. There is too much invested by too many companies for this format to fail. What do these corporations know that would convince them to go Blu-ray?

Toshiba is still begging for a unified standard. Sorry Tosh, it's too late for that now. There is a unified standard, if we can believe 85% of the major production studios. And it isn't HD-DVD.

DO you own or have you owned the Toshiba HD-A1? I believe it is quite easy to see you haven't taken the time to even view the HD-DVD format. And your supposition that the format war is already over is quite ridiculous at this time.
post #39 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevivoe
I have seen sooooo many new users (< 1 month and < 20 posts) come in here and praise BR while people with ID's as old as 5 years and 1000+ posts who have been in the videophile realm for years claim just the opposite of the OP.

you decide

k

Amen to that
post #40 of 192
Ok, I don’t thing that anyone has addressed this yet. I remembered reading when Amir was comparing Terminator 2 D-Theater to Blu-Ray. He said that basically, they were almost even steven. So the point I’m making is that right now, the whole issue with PICTURE quality is Mpeg 2 on 25 gb Blu Ray disks. Lionsgate avoided that with using DTS and Dolby digital on T2.

Is the Samsung too much money? You know it is. But I don’t want to wait for another 2 years for all movie studios to come over to one side or the other. When Alien or X-Men or something gets released, I don’t want to have to wait for Fox to support HD-DVD. I think that within the next 6-8 months, if Blu-Ray group cannot get the 50 gb disk issue fixed, they will (or at least some studios) go to VC-1 whatever. See, I’m patient and will keep my player and wait for the problems to get worked out.

Toshiba hit a home run on this deal, and the Blu-Ray group needs to get their act together. Like I said, if I was forced to choose one side, there would be no contest. HD-DVD.
post #41 of 192
Meh, if you want both formats, get both formats. I know at some point I will.

I change my mind about this all the time, but currently I think my next player will be a combo HTPC, so that I can MMC (knock on wood). The HD DVD player will do me for now.

But hey, if getting the BD player seems like a good deal to right now, jump on it. Life's short.
post #42 of 192
I still want to know what a videophile is.....Do most of you have this view that you are a videophile ?? I would think to see every last drop of detail you would need either 1... A sony SXRD projector or 2... A 9 inch gun videoprojector .....I have the SXRD projector and I think im still a Noob im no videophile lol......To me viewing movies is subjective man !!!! Everyone has a different opinion....

As far as new people posting I think its great because new and younger people will drive the market to the winning format....And that format is going to be streaming movies in HD .....

I just can not get over the BS that gets thrown up in this forum.....

I really think no one cares about either format right now it will take years before the mainstream go's for anything new SD is fine for 99 % of movie buyers....And people by then we will have something different because the internet will be much faster and at a low cost and that will allow movies in HD to be viewed via streaming .....The movie studios do not want us to have perfect copies of there movies.....IMHO...........

tj8xp.............. :rolleyes:
post #43 of 192
To the OP-

I was readsing your posts until i happened upong the "i have a 720p lcd set" which in my opinion isnt even a set worth critiquing hdtv on. Your opinions on viewing hd movies are totaly moot since to view the problems with these sets:
a. you need clarity with no ghosting (lcd ghosts always)
b. you need a true image not a downconverted image.
Take your bd to anyone with a decent 1080i or p set and you will see the problems everyone is talking about.
post #44 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj8xp
To me viewing movies is subjective man !!!! Everyone has a different opinion....


tj8xp.............. :rolleyes:
Yes, 'viewing' movies can be quite subjective, 'viewing' artifacts is not. ;)
post #45 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by californiajay
No, it has been outputting 1080i. It looks very noticably better at 1080 than it does at 720.

Please don't try and figure out 'what's wrong' with my Toshiba. It's wonderful, don't get me wrong!! I just don't think the Samsung is bad either. It's pretty good!

Here is a link with the sales of all DVD players at amazon.com. This is sure one indicator of market trend right now for the various formats. The Toshiba player is holding a respective #8 position. See if you can find the Samsung there ;)

Like, I've said. At $300, the Samsung would have been a good buy, at $1K it is a terrible value for what you get. Especially when the primary competitor is a better performer in terms of video and audio quality (player comparison not media) and costs 1/2 as much. That is what the problem is IMHO.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...ent-id=1065836
post #46 of 192
When someone says that the BR demo looks fantastic I just scratch my head. I see real promise with BR, but the demo disk, with the exception of Chicken Little, is very poor when compared with the HD-DVD demo disk and HD-DVD in general. My first impression of BR was that the image was sharp and detailed, but as soon as I started to push past the centre of attention (action or main characters speaking) and focus my attention on the back ground I could see all kinds of problems. Luckily for some they don't know what EE (seen on many SD DVDs) or compression artifacts (pretty obvious on BR) look like - ignorance really is bliss.

Although there is some obvious bias by some here for BR and HD-DVD I have learned who the "videophile" posters are and trust their opinions very much. Time and time again I take a look for myself and then compared what I am seeing to what they have said and I am 99% in agreement with them. With respect to early BR I think they were spot on. These people don't care about formats, only about quality images.

Personally I think the Sammy has taken more blame than it deserves. Early on the Toshiba got a lot of heat. Its all relative - the Toshiba probably looks better than it actually is because it costs 1/2 as much and does a great job, but a lot of the credit should also go to the transfers, which are for the most part exceptionally good considering they are first releases.

I have read a number of posts stating that BR (as it currently exists) is as good as HD-DVD and to be honest (after having seen BR for myself) I really wonder how discriminating the poster really is - sorry, but the credibility of the person posting (as a discriminating viewer)is somewhat suspect, IMO. That's not to say I am a discriminating viewer, however, if I am seeing problems - well?

Cheers,

Grant
post #47 of 192
So your saying that the one BD title you've seen The Fifth Element looks as good as say.. Serenity (on the HD-A1) on your display? That is really hard to believe. Something isn't right. May I recommend an optometrist? Maybe you have cataracts. Just kidding. :)
post #48 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by dylanneild
Have to agree with fire407 - reading your post it was pretty clear that you've got some sort of chip on your shoulder.

Honestly, if you can't see how crappy the BD titles that are out right now are than you need to get your eyes checked.

I'm not knocking the player or the format... but the BD launch titles are pure garbage. Bad transfers, bad encodes, all around bad.

Oh... and let's not forget that, with the exception of The Fifth Element, the movies themselves are total crap.... that doesn't help.
Every HT setup is different. The Samsung BD player looks fine on my Samsung 50" DLP 720p set. Many people on this forum have stated how awful Hitch looks. It looked great on my setup! XXX, another bashed release, looked even better. Many claim that T2 is the best BD so far, yet it was the worst on my setup. Even Terminator looked better than T2. And while Fifth Element wasn't spectacular looking, it didn't have all the dirt and blemishes in it that others claimed.

I'm returning my Samsung only because I believe it to be overpriced at $1000. I plan on purchasing another BD player after they perfect the DL BDs and the price of the players comes down.

I suppose you'll think I'm biased toward Blu-Ray also. Whatever.
post #49 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z
Are you friggin' kidding?
Maybe not. It looked great on my setup.
post #50 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross
Yes, 'viewing' movies can be quite subjective, 'viewing' artifacts is not. ;)
Artifacts can be subjective. My late dad could see flickering in a picture where I could see none!

Others see a rainbow effect on DLP sets; I don't.
post #51 of 192
Quote:
It looked great on my setup.
I discard "outlier" opinions on this issue. I've learned that nothing is bad enough to keep some people from liking/praising it, and nothing is good enough to keep some people from criticizing it.
post #52 of 192
I have been reading all the back and forth on these formats and like some have both. Each has pros and cons that are TYPICAL of any first gen release. If all manufacturers got it right the first time around the economy would grind to a hault :) The reality is if it works for you, it works for you, if it doesnt...well you get the picture. No matter what anyones says on this board at the end of the day it still and always will be, garbage in...garbage out. I think this is especially true in the case of BR. Both formats were rushed in all aspects and it would appear that HD has the upper hand from a sofware aspect. No matter what though I still completely beleive that on all parts that when BR gets it act together the picture is going to be 99% comparable. If you care to wait then wait, if you cant then by all means buy away much like I did. The reality is things will get better but I still dont beleive the holy grail that people seem to exist will come down from the heavens and make it a clear choice.

And thats all I have to say about thaaaaat.
post #53 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyEagle
Artifacts can be subjective. My late dad could see flickering in a picture where I could see none!

Others see a rainbow effect on DLP sets; I don't.
Hard to believe that someone couldn't see macroblocking, mosquito noise or pixellization if it were there. Don't you agree? ;)
post #54 of 192
I dont believe artifacts are subjective. What is subjective is someone paying $1,000 for a new toy and being impressed without especially if they do not have an understanding of the technology (what makes an excellent HD transfer).
post #55 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlsmith

I also note that the mainstream press has generally treated the Samsung better than the Toshiba. PC Magazine called the Toshiba "fair" and the Samsung "very good", for example.

I am working on the hypothesis that the early BD disks are not all very good but that the Samsung player itself is fine.

pc crowd will always favor the blu ray no matter what because space is everything to them. However not sure how their opinions will hold in the future depending on whether the BD format can prove to be consistant in performance when/if 50 gig discs actually hit the market.

regarding actual build quality its no contest, the tosh slaughters the sammy, heavy metal chasis, solid build and detachable power cable. All signs of a quality product, at least in the world of audio. Usually a fixed plug is considered lesser quality component.
post #56 of 192
I'm in the PC crowd and I can tell you I favor hard drives.
post #57 of 192
Quote:
Hard to believe that someone couldn't see macroblocking, mosquito noise or pixellization if it were there. Don't you agree?
Never underestimate the ability of people to perceive what they want to perceive.
post #58 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross
Hard to believe that someone couldn't see macroblocking, mosquito noise or pixellization if it were there. Don't you agree? ;)
That is if you know what you're looking at...lol ;)
post #59 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiningBengal
HD-DVD will not win the format wars.
I think anyone with any actual intelligence will figure that out. HD-DVD is tapped out as it is, heck, paramount just announced 10 titles all with 0 extras! I can understand if its a single layer movie, but they are not. Blu-Ray is the better format, with more support and HD-DVD owners are literally terrified. No worries for us who have known all along that anyone who has 90% of the CE and 85% of the movie studies support will win.
post #60 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by californiajay
No, it has been outputting 1080i. It looks very noticably better at 1080 than it does at 720.

Please don't try and figure out 'what's wrong' with my Toshiba. It's wonderful, don't get me wrong!! I just don't think the Samsung is bad either. It's pretty good!
I don't own either Toshiba or Samsung, but I saw both at various times at various stores playing various movies. I was suprised, after reading here on forum how bad 5th Element BR was, just to discover that I was very impressed at a local Frys with the same 5th Element BR on a Sammy Plasma. I've seen both DVD and Superbit DVD of 5th Element, and, at least to my eyes, the BR transfer looked awesome, at least on the same setup. In fact, to my eyes (the same eyes that have been watching HDTV for at least 5 years) the 5th Element BR looked better than any HD-DVD trasnfer I've ever seen (again, granted, at different stores).

For the record, I saw a prototype Sony BR player at a local Sony Style store over a month ago, playing a demo, and it was dismal.

So I am still waiting for a combo player :)
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