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2007 Mitsubishi 57” and 65” 831 Owner's Thread [NO PRICE TALK]

post #1 of 543
7/14/06 at 11:57am
Thread Starter 
Time for a fresh start. The Mitsubishi 831 is the sweet spot in the new Mitsubishi true 1080p input capable projectors as it offers substantial refinement and flexibility in picture quality as compared to the 731 series, yet only costs a few hundred dollars more.

Enhancements include:
- Both models include a static iris (these are the Brilliant / Bright / Natural picture modes) with the 831 adding a second dynamic iris
- 831 includes SharpEdge (no doubt Mitsubishi s answer to Samsung Dnie)
- 831 DeepField Imager - this feature divides the screen up into over a hundred areas and enhances the picture quality in the dark areas.
- 831 has a fully illuminated remote
- 831 includes NetCommand with IR learning

Mitsubishi does not release final specifications early as they wait to measure the shipping product.

Best Buy and the other usual dealers will be selling the 831 series, so the it should be easy to audition.

I've been waiting for quit some time as I previously owned the 65 HP 1080p and was impressed with its high contrast ratio (but only if you knew just how to set the iris). The Mitsubishi 831 dual iris system allows for a very bright picture during the daytime and enhanced contrast for nighttime viewing. Hopefully the 831 series will not only exceed the HP, but also be a trouble-free to operate and enjoy.

The two 1080p input capable HDMI ports should be sufficient for the majority of users. The seperate dual mode 1080p DVI-I port accepts both analog RGB and digital DVI signals from a computer. This optimal input configuration allows for 1:1 digital mapping and thus bypasses the evil scalar/format converter. This aspect is important because even several recent 1920*1080 input capable TV displays still unnecessary zoom-in to artificially create over-scan. Bottom line is these scalers degrade the picture quality.
Because someone at Mitsubishi was able to clearly think and offer the features that discriminating customers demand, I will probably be purchasing the 65 831 when they go on sale. It is expected at the stores within the August 1-15 timeframe.

Other contenders include Toshiba (a sly sleeper company who just might add 1080p inputs), and the JVC with their new dynamic iris.
Note: for screens less than 50 inches suggest the very latest flat panel 1080p LCD displays. Expect to spend about $2.5 -3.5K for any of these excellent 40-65" displays.

Overall rear projectors are making a dramatic comeback this year and we all owe it to last years Sony SXRD. Thanks Sony. Prices are dropping, reliability has improved and 1280/1366 resolution displays will most certainly be regulated to the Wal-mart crowd.
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post #2 of 543
7/14/06 at 1:17pm
2 questions reincarnate: 1) what led to you getting rid of the HP? 2) I know that Toshiba has questionable reliability/cust. service supposedly, what is the outlook on Mitsubishi?
Oh, and what do you think the 65" will retail at?
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post #3 of 543
7/14/06 at 4:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

Time for a fresh start. The Mitsubishi 831 is the sweet spot in the new Mitsubishi true 1080p input capable projectors as it offers substantial refinement and flexibility in picture quality as compared to the 731 series, yet only costs a few hundred dollars more.

Enhancements include:
- Both models include a static iris (these are the Brilliant / Bright / Natural picture modes) with the 831 adding a second dynamic iris
- 831 includes SharpEdge (no doubt Mitsubishi s answer to Samsung Dnie)
- 831 DeepField Imager - this feature divides the screen up into over a hundred areas and enhances the picture quality in the dark areas.
- 831 has a fully illuminated remote
- 831 includes NetCommand with IR learning

Mitsubishi does not release final specifications early as they wait to measure the shipping product.

Best Buy and the other usual dealers will be selling the 831 series, so the it should be easy to audition.

I've been waiting for quit some time as I previously owned the 65 HP 1080p and was impressed with its high contrast ratio (but only if you knew just how to set the iris). The Mitsubishi 831 dual iris system allows for a very bright picture during the daytime and enhanced contrast for nighttime viewing. Hopefully the 831 series will not only exceed the HP, but also be a trouble-free to operate and enjoy.

The two 1080p input capable HDMI ports should be sufficient for the majority of users. The seperate dual mode 1080p DVI-I port accepts both analog RGB and digital DVI signals from a computer. This optimal input configuration allows for 1:1 digital mapping and thus bypasses the evil scalar/format converter. This aspect is important because even several recent 1920*1080 input capable TV displays still unnecessary zoom-in to artificially create over-scan. Bottom line is these scalers degrade the picture quality.
Because someone at Mitsubishi was able to clearly think and offer the features that discriminating customers demand, I will probably be purchasing the 65 831 when they go on sale. It is expected at the stores within the August 1-15 timeframe.

Other contenders include Toshiba (a sly sleeper company who just might add 1080p inputs), and the JVC with their new dynamic iris.
Note: for screens less than 50 inches suggest the very latest flat panel 1080p LCD displays. Expect to spend about $2.5 -3.5K for any of these excellent 40-65" displays.

Overall rear projectors are making a dramatic comeback this year and we all owe it to last years Sony SXRD. Thanks Sony. Prices are dropping, reliability has improved and 1280/1366 resolution displays will most certainly be regulated to the Wal-mart crowd.


What makes you think that Toshiba will add 1080p inputs when everything that I've read says that they will not?
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post #4 of 543
7/14/06 at 4:51pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlpetrozelli View Post

2 questions reincarnate: 1) what led to you getting rid of the HP? 2) I know that Toshiba has questionable reliability/cust. service supposedly, what is the outlook on Mitsubishi?
Oh, and what do you think the 65" will retail at?

The HP color wheel can be very noisy. The major DLP players not use a whisper quiet 2.5" air bearing. HP does not. Many owners complained they could easily hear it for their listening position. There are compatibility issues but that is what you get for being first.

"Toshiba has questionable reliability/cust. service supposedly, what is the outlook on Mitsubishi."
Get an excellent extended warranty but only after you decide to keep the display.
Making a quick determination within the first week or so, as this is all important.

I have not been hearing much of the horror stories that I've heard in years past. Frankly I've been quite critical of Mits in the past, but there was a big change this year. Texas Instruments made major improvements with their DLP/DSP technology this year and then Mits built upon that.
Hopefully this shows that I have no brand loyalty whatsoever.

Now to round out the field:
The years Samsung are an excellent value too. Initial samples had as a sparking/flashing luminance type artifact in the fine detail, but that may have been corrected (as I have not seen it lately). However the Samsung Dnie stills makes common HD picture look slightly overcooked, but the PQ is too soft when it is turned off. This is why the Mits may be best as the 731 is actually clearer than the Samsung with the Dnie turned off. Hopefully the 831 SharpEdge is less brute force (because they have more to work with). If this should fail then use the separate DVI port.

As for Sony, the infect-me-at-anytime green panel issue makes SXRD just to risky to recommend or consider. I hope they correct the problem, along with adding decoders to their Blu-ray players, improve their HD film encoding, restoring the promised HDMI ports and restore the cell processor PS3 clock speed. And lastly stay on schedule just once. One positive sign is that they dropped their racially insensitive marketing campaign.
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post #5 of 543
7/14/06 at 6:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

Enhancements include:
- Both models include a static iris (these are the Brilliant / Bright / Natural picture modes) with the 831 adding a second dynamic iris
- 831 includes SharpEdge (no doubt Mitsubishi s answer to Samsung Dnie)
- 831 DeepField Imager - this feature divides the screen up into over a hundred areas and enhances the picture quality in the dark areas.
- 831 has a fully illuminated remote
- 831 includes NetCommand with IR learning

Interesting that you do not include the two items that distinguish the 831 series from the 732:

180 Watt lamp system
high-contrast screen
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post #6 of 543
7/14/06 at 10:03pm
Did you start this thread because you were able to purchase one already or at least reserve one?

I though the 732 was the sweet spot?
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post #7 of 543
7/14/06 at 10:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

Time for a fresh start. The Mitsubishi 831 is the sweet spot in the new Mitsubishi true 1080p input capable projectors as it offers substantial refinement and flexibility in picture quality as compared to the 731 series, yet only costs a few hundred dollars more.

Enhancements include:
- Both models include a static iris (these are the Brilliant / Bright / Natural picture modes) with the 831 adding a second dynamic iris
- 831 includes SharpEdge (no doubt Mitsubishi s answer to Samsung Dnie)
- 831 DeepField Imager - this feature divides the screen up into over a hundred areas and enhances the picture quality in the dark areas.
- 831 has a fully illuminated remote
- 831 includes NetCommand with IR learning

Mitsubishi does not release final specifications early as they wait to measure the shipping product.

Best Buy and the other usual dealers will be selling the 831 series, so the it should be easy to audition.

I've been waiting for quit some time as I previously owned the 65 HP 1080p and was impressed with its high contrast ratio (but only if you knew just how to set the iris). The Mitsubishi 831 dual iris system allows for a very bright picture during the daytime and enhanced contrast for nighttime viewing. Hopefully the 831 series will not only exceed the HP, but also be a trouble-free to operate and enjoy.

The two 1080p input capable HDMI ports should be sufficient for the majority of users. The seperate dual mode 1080p DVI-I port accepts both analog RGB and digital DVI signals from a computer. This optimal input configuration allows for 1:1 digital mapping and thus bypasses the evil scalar/format converter. This aspect is important because even several recent 1920*1080 input capable TV displays still unnecessary zoom-in to artificially create over-scan. Bottom line is these scalers degrade the picture quality.
Because someone at Mitsubishi was able to clearly think and offer the features that discriminating customers demand, I will probably be purchasing the 65 831 when they go on sale. It is expected at the stores within the August 1-15 timeframe.

Other contenders include Toshiba (a sly sleeper company who just might add 1080p inputs), and the JVC with their new dynamic iris.
Note: for screens less than 50 inches suggest the very latest flat panel 1080p LCD displays. Expect to spend about $2.5 -3.5K for any of these excellent 40-65" displays.

Overall rear projectors are making a dramatic comeback this year and we all owe it to last years Sony SXRD. Thanks Sony. Prices are dropping, reliability has improved and 1280/1366 resolution displays will most certainly be regulated to the Wal-mart crowd.

Thanks for the info.
  • What's the MSRP supposed to be for the 65831? I thought it was $4599 (maybe $300 cheaper though)
  • Haven't heard about the second dynamic iris. Sounds very interesting along with the dark detailer and high contrast screen.
  • Heard any info on the 73" models? Features/Prices
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post #8 of 543
7/15/06 at 3:59am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bslep View Post

What makes you think that Toshiba will add 1080p inputs when everything that I've read says that they will not?

Speculation and hope. There other SOTA products are including such as their very new flat panel 42+ 1080p LCDs and their 1080p HD-DVD recorder. (JVC also delayed to include them). Toshibas explanation at the RP introduction several moths ago was just to stupid too make any sense. We shall see...
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post #9 of 543
7/15/06 at 5:17am
Thread Starter 
I've just completed read Tom Norton's review of the Mitsubishi WD-57731 over at Ultimate AV site. Frankly it is one of the best and most accurate reviews I've even read especially since he compares rear projectors to front projectors. As some of you may know, 1080p front projectors prices at not competitive and their lack of basic performance have made this category my favorite whipping boy.

Here the $3k 731 Mitsubishi rear projector shows more detail (as it naturally should) than the most naturally sharp $13K front projector. Truth, justice and the American way (and not all this crap stuff).

The $10K 1080p Sony Ruby (the darling of the front projector connoissewers) did not look as sharp as even the 1280*720 Yamaha. Something stinks when a 1280*720 display with 921K pixels looks sharper than a display with over twice as many (1920*1080 or 2 million) pixels.

The major areas Mr. Norton finds lacking at 480i de-interlacing, black level and contrast. Well my HDMI sources won't even output 480i (and who even cares about 480i broadcasts as it all looks like crap anyway). The back level and contrast will no doubt improve with the 831's dynamic iris and other enhancements. So what issues are left? (Light bulb price and reliability)

As good as the 731 is, it would be foolish to buy it with the 831 series almost here and for just a couple hundred bucks more. It is not that the 731 is bad - it is very good. But who does not like being spoiled?

Unsharp Mask
-------------
The most effective sharpening technique in professional digital photography is the unsharp mask controls which allows one to precisely compensate for the original cameras necessary high frequency roll off. When the controls are adjusted just right amount clarity improvement is remarkable. Here Mr. Norton could see the 731 sharpening with test patterns but hardly ever with even HD program material. This is exactly as it should be. This shows intelligent designer choices.
By direct comparison Samsung still need to allow more control over Dnie or at least back off the heavy hand.

No Calibration Necessary
------------------------
When umr or the other calibrators cleverly suggest that only they can make you display look good, then refer them to this page:
http://www.guidetohometheater.com/re...31/index6.html
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post #10 of 543
7/15/06 at 5:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

As good as the 731 is, it would be foolish to buy it with the 831 series almost here and for just a couple hundred bucks more. It is not that the 731 is bad - it is very good. But who does not like being spoiled?

I agree the 731 series sounds great but lacks one or two beneficial components but it's the 732 series that provides those components for a couple hundred more. The 831 is several hundred on top of that and IMHO it's key contribution is the high-contrast screen. The new screen could definitely have a positive affect on PQ but if you look at last year's Mits threads it introduces possible reflections. For me the 732 is the sweet spot given the sunny room I will place the set in. I agree, the 831 does sound like a lot of product for the price for those who can afford it.

Edit: Looking again at last year's Mit's Diamond series I'm not certain that the "Diamond shield" screen offered then (which had potential for reflections) is the same as the "new high-contrast screen technology" offered now. I guess only time will tell.
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post #11 of 543
7/15/06 at 6:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Thanks for the info.
  • What's the MSRP supposed to be for the 65831? I thought it was $4599 (maybe $300 cheaper though)
  • Haven't heard about the second dynamic iris. Sounds very interesting along with the dark detailer and high contrast screen.
  • Heard any info on the 73" models? Features/Prices

I've never heard of this company before, but they show the 65831 on their website at that price.

Retail link removed
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post #12 of 543
7/15/06 at 10:21am
"Best Buy and the other usual dealers will be selling the 831 series, so the it should be easy to audition"........reincarnate

I believe the above statement is inaccurate. Best Buy has only sold entry-level products from Mitsubishi in the past. The WD-xx731 series product, currently in BB, is entry level. The WD-xx732 and the WD-xx831 series (like the current xx628 and xx827 series), I believe, will be available only through smaller regional and specialty dealers.
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post #13 of 543
7/15/06 at 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDNW View Post

"Best Buy and the other usual dealers will be selling the 831 series, so the it should be easy to audition"........reincarnate

I believe the above statement is inaccurate. Best Buy has only sold entry-level products from Mitsubishi in the past. The WD-xx731 series product, currently in BB, is entry level. The WD-xx732 and the WD-xx831 series (like the current xx628 and xx827 series), I believe, will be available only through smaller regional and specialty dealers.

That's what I'm thinking too. Although I have seen the mid-line at Best Buys before. And there are Magnolia stores in Best Buy that will likely have the 831 series. Although, BB does seem to be adding more lines all the time so maybe they can carry more now.
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post #14 of 543
7/15/06 at 10:57am
[quote=bslep]I've never heard of this company before, but they show the 65831 on their website at that price.



Those are the same details (and pic) from the hdtvexpert info that's been out. Hopefully those prices will be cheaper like the are on the 731 series.
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post #15 of 543
7/15/06 at 2:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDNW View Post

"Best Buy and the other usual dealers will be selling the 831 series, so the it should be easy to audition"........reincarnate

I believe the above statement is inaccurate. Best Buy has only sold entry-level products from Mitsubishi in the past. The WD-xx731 series product, currently in BB, is entry level. The WD-xx732 and the WD-xx831 series (like the current xx628 and xx827 series), I believe, will be available only through smaller regional and specialty dealers.

I thought I read somewhere that HHgregg will carry the 732 series.
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post #16 of 543
7/15/06 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bslep View Post

I thought I read somewhere that HHgregg will carry the 732 series.

Tweeter will be carrying the 732 series, it is in their system at $2999.99. I am thinking of preording.
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post #17 of 543
7/15/06 at 6:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDextreme View Post

Tweeter will be carrying the 732 series, it is in their system at $2999.99. I am thinking of preording.

Good find. I also found the WD-65732 on their web site @ $3699.99. I guess all MSRP's are going to be $300 less than the original levels in the press release.
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post #18 of 543
7/15/06 at 10:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bslep View Post

I thought I read somewhere that HHgregg will carry the 732 series.

I'm certain they will. HH Gregg always carries the Mits' middle line. I actually wish HH Gregg carried ALL the sets we are interested in at AVS. In most cases, NO ONE (at least in my area) will beat their prices.
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post #19 of 543
7/16/06 at 6:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJL53 View Post

Good find. I also found the WD-65732 on their web site @ $3699.99. I guess all MSRP's are going to be $300 less than the original levels in the press release.

Doesn't look like they discounted the 73732, though. It's listing an MSRP of $5,499. That's quite a difference from the 65" MSRP.
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post #20 of 543
7/16/06 at 6:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bslep View Post

Doesn't look like they discounted the 73732, though. It's listing an MSRP of $5,499. That's quite a difference from the 65" MSRP.

Actually the original news release MSRP for that model was $5,999. All companies seem to charge a hefty premium to move up to the 70" range.
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post #21 of 543
7/16/06 at 6:33am
Any clue how game lag is (at all resolutions) for any of the 2007 Mitsubishi DLPs? Is there a game mode? The 831 sound intriguing to me, but only if it can play games at 480i and 1080i with very low video lag.
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post #22 of 543
7/16/06 at 6:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJL53 View Post

Actually the original news release MSRP for that model was $5,999. All companies seem to charge a hefty premium to move up to the 70" range.

I didn't realize that. Thanks. Hopefully that may mean that the 73831 will come in under the $6,000 mark.
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post #23 of 543
7/16/06 at 7:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bslep View Post

I didn't realize that. Thanks. Hopefully that may mean that the 73831 will come in under the $6,000 mark.

My guess is you're right if only by a penny. $5999.99
You're interested in the 831 for the high-contrast screen?
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post #24 of 543
7/16/06 at 9:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJL53 View Post

My guess is you're right if only by a penny. $5999.99
You're interested in the 831 for the high-contrast screen?

Yes, I do like the fact that it has the high contrast screen, but I also like the cabinet better. I'm not sure that the price difference would be worth it to everyone, but if I'm going to be paying that much for a TV, a few hundred bucks isn't going to keep me from getting the one that I like the best.

http://www.walts.com/product_display...model=WD-73831
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post #25 of 543
7/16/06 at 10:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bslep View Post

Yes, I do like the fact that it has the high contrast screen, but I also like the cabinet better.

You certainly get more for your money as far as cabinets go ...
For the 732 series: 57" = 96 lbs, 65" = 103 lbs and then the 73" jumps to 187 lbs (according to Tweeters web site). Clearly the larger models do not use the same basic cabinets as the other sizes.
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post #26 of 543
7/16/06 at 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJL53 View Post

You certainly get more for your money as far as cabinets go ...
For the 732 series: 57" = 96 lbs, 65" = 103 lbs and then the 73" jumps to 187 lbs (according to Tweeters web site). Clearly the larger models do not use the same basic cabinets as the other sizes.

could you put the tweeter link here? I can find the TV when I search their site.
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post #27 of 543
7/16/06 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazzcode View Post

could you put the tweeter link here? I can find the TV when I search their site.

65732
http://www.tweeter.com/product/index...entPage=family

73732
http://www.tweeter.com/product/index...entPage=family
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post #28 of 543
7/17/06 at 11:02am
Quote:


Unsharp Mask
-------------

By direct comparison Samsung still need to allow more control over Dnie or at least back off the heavy hand.

The latest SAMSUNG sets have the ability to disable Dnie (which is recommended by the calibrators and those with the sets for best picture, and most stable calibration/video settings.)

Tech thread HERE

Sparkle is also eliminated if you come off the mega-watt "Brilliant" setting and get the video settings to their proper settings (by whatever method you think best).

I'm watching all these sets as I've yet to make a decision, will compare the 831 to the Samsung 6187/6188 series, and end with with each one based upon reviews and personal viewing/tweaking.

Cheers!
Doc Rings
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post #29 of 543
7/17/06 at 8:17pm
$5499 for the 73732 is quite a leap from $3699 for the 65732. If HH Gregg carries either the 73732 or if only they'd carry the 73831 or 65831 I've typically been able to get them to discount 17-20% off a TV of this size. If only I may be interested. They'll carry the 65732 for sure though if nothing else.
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post #30 of 543
8/4/06 at 10:27am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

The HP color wheel can be very noisy. The major DLP players not use a whisper quiet 2.5" air bearing. HP does not. .

Now to round out the field:
The years Samsung are an excellent value too. Initial samples had as a sparking/flashing luminance type artifact in the fine detail, but that may have been corrected (as I have not seen it lately). However the Samsung Dnie stills makes common HD picture look slightly overcooked, but the PQ is too soft when it is turned off. This is why the Mits may be best as the 731 is actually clearer than the Samsung with the Dnie turned off. Hopefully the 831 SharpEdge is less brute force (because they have more to work with). If this should fail then use the separate DVI port.

Here we are several weeks after this post was written and Ultimate AV reviews a new HLS 1280 Sammy. Here are their comments which match the above observations:
"First and foremost, and especially when compared to the best 1080p sets out there, the Samsung's HD picture is on the soft side and sometimes even slightly blurry when motion is involved. This is the case even with DNIe on, even though this feature does enhance detail. The softness is usually not a big deal. You might even think at first that the source itself lacks fine detail in trees, grass, and foliage moving in the distance. But the plasma was significantly sharper in fine background resolution in a direct comparison, particularly on camera pans."
I own the Panasonic 50" plasma and confirm what Randy Tomlinson states is true.
The 1080 Samsung is also soft.
Also color wheel noise:
"The HL-S single-chip DLP sets incorporate a faster color wheel, with five color segments for additional color accuracy and resistance to dreaded "rainbow" artifacts. In addition, the color wheel features an air bearing for longer life and noise free operation."

Now we still to wait a few more weeks as both the Mits 732 and JVC have (still) not been released.

http://www.guidetohometheater.com/re...hl/index1.html
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AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Rear Projection Units › 2007 Mitsubishi 57” and 65” 831 Owner's Thread [NO PRICE TALK]