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Subwoofer for Magnepan MMGs? - Page 2

post #31 of 46

I have to say I am completely shocked by the statments made by the same article with regard to back EMF and servo control.

Rythmik, are you talking about the page linked to in post #19?
post #32 of 46
Originally Posted by soho54 View Post

Rythmik, are you talking about the page linked to in post #19?

Yes. #19.

post #33 of 46
Originally Posted by ghozt View Post

I have a Rythmik audio servo sub paired with my MMGs and it sounds fantastic. I have analyzed my room curve on SMAART and the MMGs roll off pretty quickly around 100hz which is a little high for my taste, but the servo sub sounds good up that high and is still very responsive. I have it low passed at 110hz. Being a servo sub, it is very accurate. If the music is mixed with very little bass emphasis it will sound that way, if mixed with a big bottom end then the sub shakes the walls. This is different for me from other non servos I have had in the past where I can tweek them to output a certain db regardless of the material I am playing. I tuned my servo using pink noise at a 90db level and that is pretty loud for MMGs in my living room, as they are not a high SPL speaker. Rhythmik would be a little more than your budget and you would have to build your own box or buy one from Brian (owner of Rhythmik). I would suggest a sealed box what ever route you go, as it will respond quicker and give a flatter frequency response.

Do you have the MMG's or are you referring to the MMG-W's? I know that the W's are supposed to drop off at 100hz, but the floor standing MMG's are supposed to go down to 50hz. Is that roll off for your room specifically? I haven't had my UFW-10 that long and haven't really dialed it in or even tried changing the crossover at all. I just set the cross at 80hz and started playing music. I have been enjoying it too much, I haven't put in my tweek time yet
post #34 of 46

Do you have the MMG's or are you referring to the MMG-W's? I know that the W's are supposed to drop off at 100hz, but the floor standing MMG's are supposed to go down to 50hz. Is that roll off for your room specifically? I haven't had my UFW-10 that long and haven't really dialed it in or even tried changing the crossover at all. I just set the cross at 80hz and started playing music. I have been enjoying it too much, I haven't put in my tweek time yet

I looked up my old data from REW. Here are snapshots of my MMGs (not Ws) and rythmik sub. This is my living room with the MMGs and sub combined.


Here is MMGs no sub, I was incorrect earlier going off of memory. It appears they roll off around 80hz.


Here is the Rythmik with cross over high and close miked. I just wanted to see without room response figured in what it was doing. I do not remember what the amp switch settings were during this, most likely Medium dampeing, and 20hz center. this is my prefered setting by my ear that is what I say that might be it.


hope this helps someone. Makes me want to start tweeking and tuning again and see if I can get it to look better on the graph, but the bottom line I have to keep reminding myself is it sounds great, don't worry so much about what's on paper. One thing about MMGs is the position they are in (toe, pitch, tweeter orientation, etc) to the listening postition make a huge difference in the sound. I switched them once and put the tweeters on the inside and they sounded terrible and their frequency response showed it on the graph, can't recall exactly what it was but I prefer it the way I have it now.
post #35 of 46
For anyone who is still monitoring this thread, I did some more measurements and tuning. I did not get a close mic graph of my rythmik sub this time around, sorry I forgot. But this time I effectively used the subs phase adjustment to correct in room cancellation. So the graphs:


This is my MMGs after I eq'ed them to my goal, which was +-3db. They naturally begin to roll off at 80hz in my room so I picked a hipass crossover point of 80hz (this graph shows the response pre-crossover)


Here is the Rythmik sub low passed at 80hz. With the phase adjustment at it's zero position on the Rkthmik servo amp. The phase is relative to another speaker. So with only one speaker playing any given frequency there is no worry about phase, it is not until you add another speaker playing those same frequencies that phase matters. So next we add the sub in with the MMGs both crossed over at 80hz. Rember this graph is in room response, and as you can tell I need to do some acoustic treatment in my room to get rid of the 60hz dip, and flatten out the 30hz dip.


So here, even though the crossover points are the same (80hz) I still have both speakers, the MMGs and the Rythmik sub, playing the same frequencies at that crossover point. That will happen, as all crossovers have a roll off and are not brick walls. Even if it is -6db down they are still playing the same things. When you combine this out of phase response the soundwaves combine to form cancellation. That is the large dip from 80hz to 200hz with the large jaggies. (one reason it lastes so high, 200hz, is because of the missmatched volume of the sub compared to the MMGs. I like a lot of bass, so my "house curve" includes running the bass higher than mid and trebble.

I have hit my maximum number of pic uploads so I will continue in another post.
post #36 of 46
Lastly, My goal is to get a nice +3db rise around the crossover point, that way I know everything is in phase. I used the phase adjustment to slowly align the frequencies of the Sub with the MMGs. This was done with several measurements, moving the phase adjustment dial 1/8 of a turn at a time. Here is the end resulting graph:


Hope this is helpful, if not oh well I had fun!
post #37 of 46
You run the sub 20db hot?
post #38 of 46
You mentioned the mirage s8. I have never heard it but it is $200 shipped from vanns right now. Supposed to be a great sub but not as loud as its bigger brethren.
post #39 of 46

You run the sub 20db hot?

I live in a house and have no roommate. If I am listening late at night I will turn the sub down, so as not to disturb neighbors. This "tune" is also only a few days old, and I may get tired of that much bass. As you can see from my previous post I used to run about 10db more sub. I do like a lot of low end.
post #40 of 46
If anyone still cares, or searches this thread...

I'm running MMGs, each right-angle mounted (straight up and down) on top an 18x18xwhatever 3 cubic foot sealed box, with a Dayton Quatro15 in each. IMHO, one of the things that works for maggies is the huge amount of surface area, and I tried to do that was the subs... I don't push them hard, and I don't push them high... xover is set VERY low, and they use the 240 watt plate amps with the 4th order crossovers on 'em, so I've got maggie bass down until the subs take over...
post #41 of 46
I'll add my experience to this thread for the heck of it. A few years ago, I had a set of MG-20s. Man did they sound great. When I first hooked them up, I was using a pair of subs I had specially made a few years before. They were huge 52 inch tall cabinets with two 15 inch woofers in each. I had 2 of them....one for each side of the room. I think I was crossing everything over at around 40Hz. I have to say though that the bass always sounded slow and sluggish behind the MG-20s.......unless I turned the subs way down.......but then the music didn't sound as full as I wanted. I even tried using just one cabinet but still got the same results. So I parked the big cabinets and started using a pair of smaller subs that I had sitting around. These cabinets each had 2 10 inch drivers in them. I placed them in opposite corners......about 5ft behind each speaker and about 4 ft off center and things sounded a whole lot better. Technically, I can't say why this happened but I can say that maggies are very fast and if you're going to use a sub with them, it needs to be fast also.
post #42 of 46
You may want to check page 39 of the May stereofile. Magnepan has a sub in proto type form that is to be used specifically with the MMG models. Don't know when or if it will be available.
post #43 of 46
I'm eagerly awaiting that new maggie sub -- but I thought it was mostly for their MMG-W and MMG-C speakers, to till in the space between 50 and 100hz, since those small maggies don't have any output there. On the other hand, the MMG speakers are rated to approx 50hz, so it sounded like the new sub wouldn't really help them.

Hope I'm wrong!
post #44 of 46
Originally Posted by KnightRT View Post

This is a two-part question:

1) I have an H100. It seems to be slightly behind my mains. Is there any way to adjust the delay for the mains, or speed up the signal to the sub? Changing the phase switch doesn't seem to help.

2) I'm looking very hard at a set of Magnepan MMGs. They're rated 50 hz-24 KHz +/- 3db, though from user reviews, I suspect that bottom end is optimistic. I'll need a subwoofer.

The system will be in a 15x15x10 room on the top floor on apartment. I'll be using it exclusively for music (film scores, classical, acoustic, vocals) at moderate volumes. The flooring is wood.

As above, I have an H100. It has strong response at 30 hz, which I don't really need (or want for the sake of neighbors) with music. It's also quite large.

Ideally, I want something for ~$300 or less with a 10 inch, or even an 8 inch driver that'll keep up with the Maggies, and won't be horribly difficult to blend with them. It should have quick, clear response from 35 hz to about 90 hz.

I'm perfectly content with the quality of sound from the H100. I don't need anything better than that, so long as it isn't obviously inferior to the Magnepans.

What would you suggest?



Getting back to answering one of your original question -- and knowing NOTHING about quality audio gear -- I'm here to pass along a suggestion based on a Review of the MMG W and MMG C system, at least...

Paradigm Seismic 12
Outlaw LFM-1

This Reviewer switched back and forth between both when reviewing the MMGs and felt they both did a great job:

I'm looking at the MMG W for both my Fronts and Rear Surrounds because I really need the floorspace that conventional speakers cost. My living room is very small (14-ft Wide x 10-ft 3-in Deep). These will fit the bill nicely if I like the sound.

I realize the original question was posted two years ago. But this suggestion might help someone else researching the MMGs in 2008.
post #45 of 46
Audio Concepts (ACI) Titan or Force.
They will match up fine for Maggies.
post #46 of 46
I used the Mirage OM-200 with my MMG's and it sounds great.
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