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Samsung 71' 1080P DLP HL-S7178W (owners) - Page 40

post #1171 of 1718
Quote:


Record your settings before you enter the SM for any reason.

Yes, I understand that, and I am not one for poking around the SM, a scary place to be sure!, so is it that once you turn off CCA, exit and do the color adjustments you need to note them and reset them after you go back in to turn CCA on again? These "color settings" are done at the user level right? not in the SM. I thought with CCA on they were not able to be adjusted properly? That is what I am having a problem "getting". hope this makes sense...
post #1172 of 1718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobcel View Post

... so is it that once you turn off CCA, exit and do the color adjustments you need to note them and reset them after you go back in to turn CCA on again?

That's how I understand it, but I don't have a HLS set.

Quote:


These "color settings" are done at the user level right?

That's how I would do it, but there are those who also make changes in the SM. I leave any adjustments in the SM to the professionals.
post #1173 of 1718
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonnyAZ View Post

I'm booking Dave Abrams to do the calibration on 3/11 -- he's going to be here in the Phoenix area. I'm hoping this will get rid of the pink in the grayscale.

You will NOT regret this, I guarantee. I think you and I are similar in that we're both interested in doing some tweaking ourselves, paying attention to how everything looks when watching shows/movies ... I'll tell ya, all that time and effort spent scrutinizing the picture simply vanishes after these get calibrated.
post #1174 of 1718
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnick1976 View Post

I'll tell ya, all that time and effort spent scrutinizing the picture simply vanishes after these get calibrated.

Right there with you.

Dave is a true talent and he will soon see.
post #1175 of 1718
Hey folks, here goes my 1st post!

I'm in the market for a rear projection TV. I thought I was set on getting the new Mitsubishi 65incher(WD-65831) over the 60" Sony XBRII, but then now I'm leaning towards the 70" tv's, the 70" XBRII vs. the Samsung HL-S7187W.

One of my biggest concerns about going with a 70 or 71" tv is the viewing distance. I found some good threads on viewing distance topic, but I'm just curious for this thread regarding the 71 Sammy, could you guys give me feedback on having this tv in a media room with a 8 to 9 feet viewing distance. I can't go any further back in viewing distance if I had this tv. I want the 71" because I'd like to to feel immersed in the movies I watch...mostly 720 and 1080 res.

Now I know standard def won't be so fun at this distance, but I'm wondering more about upconverted 480i dvd, 720 and 1080 sources like comcast hd channels and Xbox 360 and HD-DVD. Is this too much screen for 9' distance? If too big, will the 65" mitsubishi still be too big for this distance?

One other thing; what does the back plastic housing of the 71" sammy look? Is it flat black or dark grey? I know the front is piano black, which I like, but if you had to look at the side when walking by it from the side, does it look mismatched in color like the way my fiance usally tells me I dress?

Thanks in advance!
post #1176 of 1718
Quote:
Originally Posted by avsyeoby View Post

... could you guys give me feedback on having this tv in a media room with a 8 to 9 feet viewing distance. I can't go any further back in viewing distance if I had this tv.

You need to try it out for yourself. What others like doesn't mean much. Is there a dealer you can visit that has either a XBR2 or a HL-S7178 on display?

Take a tape measure, a good movie on DVD, and a tape measure. Spend some time with a screen that big sitting eight feet from it. Then, just to be sure, buy from a dealer that will let you return it during the first thirty days at no cost, and for any reason.
post #1177 of 1718
I sit about 10ft from my 71" - using it for the same applications you mentioned, and found I adapted very quickly. You definitely get the immersion feeling, and after a period it feels quite normal. I occasionally scoot the sofa up a foot or so when I game on the TV ... again, it's fine.

As the other folks said, only you can decide what's comfortable for you. Good Luck with your decision.
post #1178 of 1718
Quote:


One of my biggest concerns about going with a 70 or 71" tv is the viewing distance.

I was concerned at one time about "said" viewing distance, as stated above, you quickly adapt to the size of this beauty. SD yeah, once you get a taste of HD, especially at this size, nothing can compare. Upverted DVD's look quite nice, I have found SDDVD's with good quality transfers ( Pixar, etc...) really look fantastic on an upverting player. Right now I have my 7178 on the matching stand from Samsung, but am in the process of refinishing a wall unit for it. So in response to the asthetics of the set, the rear is a medium gray, but it does not really feel "distracting" IMHO to walk by it and see the back of the set. If that is important to you you may want to look at the Sony...My wife really liked the Silver look of the Sony, but ultimately..I won! ( for once )... and I must mention there is next to no reflection with this screen compared with the Sony, ( I had a 61" Sony RP and the glare was really a problem) if you room has lots of windows...mine does.... good luck....
post #1179 of 1718
I sit 12 feet from my 7178.

The way the room is set up, you can be as far away as 12 feet in front and 2 feet from the side. I kid you not, after the calibration I've had to sit two feet from the side a few times and I have to strain to see any of the imperfections that I used to make out from 12' feet previously.

Long story short, you'll be fine at 9'+.
post #1180 of 1718
I sit 8-9 ft away....no problems at all. Preferrably, I should sit another foot or 2 away, but my current living room doesnt accomodate. It will when I get a bigger house or condo.

BUT, you have to realize that standard def wont look all that great (i know its an obvious statement, but some dont realize and complain).

It doesnt bother me though. HD material and upconverted dvds look superb. Granted all this was AFTER a professional calibration.
post #1181 of 1718
Thanks folks, all this information is really great.

I plan on going in with tape measure and dvd to local stores that have it on display. You're right htwaits, it's definitely something each person has to figure out for themselves so enough of me taking out my measuring tape at home pulling it out 8'. My girl keeps rolling her eyes and saying ha you wish asian boy!

So real quick, the cheapest I've seen the HL-S7178 (new) online is $3099. Does that sounds about right these days?
post #1182 of 1718
Quote:


So real quick, the cheapest I've seen the HL-S7178

That is an amazing price. Just be sure it is a reputable retailer, and that it is an authorized Samsung dealer as well. You don't want to be cut short on the warranty.... just my $.02
post #1183 of 1718
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnick1976 View Post

You will NOT regret this, I guarantee. I think you and I are similar in that we're both interested in doing some tweaking ourselves, paying attention to how everything looks when watching shows/movies ... I'll tell ya, all that time and effort spent scrutinizing the picture simply vanishes after these get calibrated.

Do you know the color bit depth of DVD or Blu-ray source material? The color banding that I see in areas of graduated color may be due to a lack of color bit depth either in the source material or in the TV's color processing. When I press the TV's menu button, I see a bit of banding towards the edges of the blue menu glow. Since this is being generated by the TV, it would seem that the TV may not be processing a sufficient bit depth to eliminate stair-stepping of color.

HDMI 1.3 supports 10-bit and higher color depth, while HDMI 1.2 on the 7178 presumably supports only 8-bit. 8-bit color yields 16.7 million colors, which is sufficient for smaller screen sizes but may produce preceptible color banding on larger sets, especially in areas where we see a graduation of a single color (like the blue menu glow, a sunset, etc.). I was under the impression that the 7178 utilized 10-bit color processing -- I thought Samsung mentioned that in the specs -- but if that's true, then we should be seeing over a BILLION possible color combinations, and there would be no color banding in the blue menu glow, as this would be color generated inside of the TV's color space.

Does anyone know?
post #1184 of 1718
I am a rookie here in this forum and my new 7178 will be arriving next Saturday. Can someone direct me to a link for a new set up procedure created by Eliab. TIA

Pinoysche
post #1185 of 1718
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinoysche View Post

I am a rookie here in this forum and my new 7178 will be arriving next Saturday. Can someone direct me to a link for a new set up procedure created by Eliab. TIA

Pinoysche

It's the link at the bottom of my post.
post #1186 of 1718
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

It's the link at the bottom of my post.

I got your PM earlier. Thank you very much...
post #1187 of 1718
DAVE ABRAMS rules!

Sorry, I couldn't resist -- you already know this. Dave came to my home yesterday to calibrate my 7178. He did a fantastic job, and Dave is an incredible wealth of information. For instance, I had my Denon AVR4306 and PS3 set to component color space (Ycbr blah blah), and he advised there would be less error in the color conversion if I kept it in the RGB space right down the line, so that's what we did.

I was afraid that, after the calibration, my set wouldn't be as bright. On the contrary... post-calibration the set is twice as bright as before, with much more accurate and deeper black levels. This gives the picture an immersive dose of reality. My partner came upstairs after Dave left and commented, "Wow, the picture looks so natural now". I couldn't agree more.

Initially I felt that skin tones were a bit on the red side, but after watching it for a while I felt they were far more accurate than the yellow-ish tones I had been accustomed to. Watching HDTV material such as Grey's Anatomy, which I feel is one of the best broadcast HD programs in terms of picture quality, appeared less saturated than pre-calibration and far more pleasing. Before the calibration, everyone had the same skin tone. Post-calibration, you could actually see the differences between the skin tones of the different actors.

Regarding my color dithering issue, posted previously, Dave pointed out that most source material utilizes a 24-bit color space (8 bits each for R, G, and B). This allows a color palette of 16.7 million colors -- similar to what we all use on our PCs and Macs -- but at a 71" screen size could result in banding in continuous tone areas. Combine that with additional video/color compression on satellite, DVD, and Blu-ray source material, and it quickly becomes clear why we see color banding in some situations. I believe Blu-ray mitigates this somewhat with additional noise in the video signal, making it more film-like and breaking up color transitions. The only real fix to this issue would be source material encoded in 10-bit or higher color combined with HDMI 1.3 transport. HDMI 1.3 allows for 30-bit to 48-bit color, or a shift from HDMI 1.2's millions of colors to billions on HDMI 1.3's low end to trillions on the high end. Until the video sources take advantage of more than 24-bit color, which is unlikely for a long while, the only advantage to HDMI 1.3's expanded color gamut will most likely be for computer gaming.

I am thrilled with my calibration, and highly recommend Dave to anyone who wants to get every ounce of performance from their set. A few months ago I tried doing my own calibration with a Gretag Macbeth EyeOne colorimeter and software... well, Dave puts that whole process to shame.
post #1188 of 1718
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonnyAZ View Post

DAVE ABRAMS rules!

Thanks for the report.

Your report has been added to the list that is linked at the bottom of my post.
post #1189 of 1718
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonnyAZ View Post

I am thrilled with my calibration, and highly recommend Dave to anyone who wants to get every ounce of performance from their set. A few months ago I tried doing my own calibration with a Gretag Macbeth EyeOne colorimeter and software... well, Dave puts that whole process to shame.

Great to hear.

Like you, I did my own calibration and just wasnt satisfied. I've come across people who dont think its worth spending the money and they think they are good enough at calibrating on their own.

These people just dont realize until they have it done what a difference it can make.
post #1190 of 1718
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockStrongo View Post

Great to hear.

Like you, I didnt my own calibration and just wasnt satisfied. I've come across people who dont think its worth spending the money and they think they are good enough at calibrating on their own.

These people just dont realize until they have it done what a difference it can make.

I agree, especially since the SpyderTV Pro setup cost me almost $500 and David cost me $450. I sold the SpyderTV Pro on eBay and recovered most of my money. I must say that for the same price as an SpyderTV Pro, Dave Abrams is a much better investment!
post #1191 of 1718
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockStrongo View Post


..... calibration ..... dont realize until they have it done what a difference it can make.

I'll second that.

I was committed to getting a professional calibration from the moment I placed the order for my HL-S7178W. I expected the results to be good, but after calibration I was still impressed - the result was even better than I expected.

My calibration was done by UMR, and I posted a note on it in the HLS thread.

In that posting, I also noted that UMR calibrated my audio system, in addition to video, and that was worth every penny. UMR has professional instruments and a well trained ear for audio, and the result was a definite improvement over what I had done with a Radio Shack meter and the Auto EQ in my DD-12 Velodyne sub.

Bruce
post #1192 of 1718
Too bad I live in louisiana.
post #1193 of 1718
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonnyAZ View Post

Regarding my color dithering issue, posted previously, Dave pointed out that most source material utilizes a 24-bit color space (8 bits each for R, G, and B). This allows a color palette of 16.7 million colors -- similar to what we all use on our PCs and Macs -- but at a 71" screen size could result in banding in continuous tone areas. Combine that with additional video/color compression on satellite, DVD, and Blu-ray source material, and it quickly becomes clear why we see color banding in some situations. I believe Blu-ray mitigates this somewhat with additional noise in the video signal, making it more film-like and breaking up color transitions. The only real fix to this issue would be source material encoded in 10-bit or higher color combined with HDMI 1.3 transport. HDMI 1.3 allows for 30-bit to 48-bit color, or a shift from HDMI 1.2's millions of colors to billions on HDMI 1.3's low end to trillions on the high end. Until the video sources take advantage of more than 24-bit color, which is unlikely for a long while, the only advantage to HDMI 1.3's expanded color gamut will most likely be for computer gaming.

I forgot to mention that the color banding I was experiencing prior to the calibration has all but disappeared. There is still compression-based banding occurring, which is not the TV's fault, but color gradations in continuous tone areas are much smoother than pre-calibration. The calibration has improved every single aspect of my television, and as a result, my viewing enjoyment.

I was not very happy with the image coming out of my HL-S7178W when I first bought it, prompting me to make my own feeble attempts at calibration. I briefly regretted my purchase about 2 months into ownership, when all I could see was the cartoonish blues, reds, and greens output by the TV. Something just wasn't right. I believe that Sony's have a better picture out of the box, but the Samsungs are much more customizable in the service menu than any other brand. A Sony set cannot be as finely calibrated as a Samsung, and as a result, a post-calibration Samsung will look much better than a pre- or post-calibration Sony -- or any other manufacturer, for that matter.

I am very happy with my purchase, and the HL-S7178W beats every other set out there hands down. It begs to be calibrated, and it's a shame that Samsung doesn't ship the sets already calibrated to reference standards.
post #1194 of 1718
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonnyAZ View Post

It begs to be calibrated, and it's a shame that Samsung doesn't ship the sets already calibrated to reference standards.

Yep, unfortunately, they ship them with settings to sell in a large store/warehouse type environment instead of for enjoying in a home theater.
post #1195 of 1718
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonnyAZ View Post

and it's a shame that Samsung doesn't ship the sets already calibrated to reference standards.

Amen to that...
One of many things still in the way of me purchasing a HIGH Def set.
But it's getting close..maybe when the 2007 sets start showing up...
post #1196 of 1718
Hey all
I just finished moving Sam into a big wall unit I refinished. So now it sits up pretty high and in a open back cabinet. Does anyone here use any back lighting? I was looking at Ideal-Lume , and thinking of trying one mounted behind the screen. The base of the TV is now sitting at 35", kind of weird after using the stand, TR71B, for the past couple of months, I'm not used to it yet. BTW. anyone in the So Cal area interested in a TR71B let me know.
post #1197 of 1718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobcel View Post

Hey all
I just finished moving Sam into a big wall unit I refinished. So now it sits up pretty high and in a open back cabinet. Does anyone here use any back lighting? I was looking at Ideal-Lume , and thinking of trying one mounted behind the screen. The base of the TV is now sitting at 35", kind of weird after using the stand, TR71B, for the past couple of months, I'm not used to it yet. BTW. anyone in the So Cal area interested in a TR71B let me know.

I have the ideal lume behind mine. It just sits on the back of the stand just fine.

I have it connected to the alt plug on the back of my audio receiver for power. It comes on when my onkyo does. Works great!
post #1198 of 1718
Quote:


I have the ideal lume behind mine

Great to hear, gonna order one, thanks.......
post #1199 of 1718
Anyone want to PM me a good place to purchase this online? Several are within a small percentage of each others price but was hoping someone had good expereicne with a certain vendor and was knowledgable on the limitations for returns, repairs warranty etc. Thanks!
post #1200 of 1718
Eliab was at my home a few nights ago to calibrate my Samsung HL-S7178W. The results were definitely worth the cost of the calibration. This is my third HD-TV and the first set to be calibrated. I have a 3 year old, 50 Samsung DLP that I always thought looked great, but I always had the feeling that maybe, if the set was calibrated I would enjoy a better viewing experience. I always had the mode set to Dynamic or Standard thinking that bright was the way to go. Boy, was I wrong! While searching the AVS forum back in January when I was trying to make a decision between the Samsung HL-S7178W and the 70 Sony XBR2, I kept seeing Avical's name show up with glowing references in regards to calibrating Samsung DLP's. That made it easier for me to chose the Samsung over the Sony.

After a couple of days of watching the TV with my own tweaking (not in the Service Menu) I decided to use Eliab's settings for the User Menu. At first, I found the picture to be a lot darker than I was used to, but after awhile I really began to see the difference in the picture - the blacks looked deeper and more detailed, the color looked more natural and the picture was easier on my eyes than before. At that point, I figured if these tweaks could make this kind of difference, what would a professional calibration do for this TV?
I will tell you that when Eliab calibrates your set, you are getting more than your money's worth. My wife and I watched him work his magic as he explained the changes he was making in the Service Menu. He was very personable and had no problem answering our questions. He even offered to remove the base from the TV which now makes the TV blend in seamlessly with the TR-71B stand. Eliab spent 3.5 hours at my home. He calibrated the HDMI, Component and S-Video inputs. He tested my Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player, my Denon 987 Receiver and the Motorola 6416 DVR cable box. After Elib was done, I can honestly say that the blacks were definitely deeper and the picture detail has definitely improved to the point that I could see the white stitching on a white collar. The color is much more realistic looking and the SD picture has definitely improved. The calibration helped to remove 90% of the animated look that we were seeing on the faces when a 4:3 SD commercial was on the local ABC-HDTV channel which used to be very annoying - mainly because I thought there might be something wrong with set.

If you really want to enjoy your viewing experience, you should definitely get your set calibrated. You've already spent a lot of money on your set, so go the extra mile and have your TV calibrated. If you want the peace of mind that your new investment is operating at peak efficiency, I highly recommend Eliab for the job.
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