Samsung 71' 1080P DLP HL-S7178W (owners) - Page 27

This is exactly what happened to my 7178 - it was dust in the light engine being projected onto the screen. I was sure it was smudges, but alas. Anyway, they replaced the light engine and the problem went away.

PS3 and Game lag?

I would be very interested if any 7178W user can let me know if there is signficant game lag combining the PS3 to this TV.

A little background. Very happy HD-A1 user. Wasn't planning on buying Blu-ray until the price point for a decent machine was under $500 or less. Browsing at Best Buy the other day and saw the PS3 - Brought back the kid in me - I haven't owned a gaming system since the atari 2600. I *never* thought I would say this, but combining this and the built in blu-ray player actually seemed like a good deal from a pricing perspective. Felt very comfortable buying the HD-A1 knowing that Toshiba is losing money on each one made, and figure the same is true for the PS3. So.. a couple of questions for fellow 7178W owners from a gaming newbie:

1) Game lag question as above. If there are no PS3+7178W owners out there, would appreciate this answer from 360 or wii owners as well. If there is enough lag with this TV, I might just go back to Plan A and wait for a stand alone player

2) I still have one leftover HDMI spot on the TV. Is it better to route PS3 to the TV directly and bypass the receiver for the video (to reduce lag), and then route the sound via component to the receiver or just route everything through the receiver.

3) If I am using this 85% blu-ray and 15% gaming, is there any reason to get the more expensive PS3 version (getting of track, I know)

I may not be the most qualified to answer your questions (other than the fact that I own both the 7178 and PS3), but here goes..

1) I have not noticed any game lag with either the PS3 or the 360. Resistance: Fall of Man is the only title I own for the PS3, and it plays very smooth.

2) The former is how I have it set up

3) If you're using it primarily for BD playback, then save yourself $100 and get the 20GB. That is, unless you WANT built in wifi and a card reader for the top model. My home theater room houses the wireless router so it's not a big deal for me to run a cable to my PS3. If this is the case for you as well, there's no point in getting the wifi model, as your PS3 likely won't be a mobile device that needs the flexibility. If you own a PSP, then you could link it to the PS3 via wifi, but you've already stated you're not so much on the gaming side of things.

I've got a 12-in-1 USB card reader that I could hook up to one of the ports to read anything I'd need to, or directly connect whatever device to the PS3 via USB. No need for the built in reader.

Lastly, the extra 40 GB of HDD space won't be missed, and the (laptop) drives are replaceable anyway.

In case you didn't notice.. I think the 60GB model is absolutely pointless to own, EXCEPT for those who sold it on Ebay immediately at launch for 3-4k.

Also, Eliab pointed out to me that it's best to enter the next gen market for as cheap as possible, in case that format loses out. In a few years, when the war is settled, you can go all out on the player of your choice. Right now, players of either format for $400-500 isn't bad at all.

Your not going to see any game lag with most DLP sets unless you are using a gaming system that is low resolution (where the tv has to do a large upconversion) via composite or s-vid. My 360 has no lag at all, but i have it connected via component.

Has anyone ever ordered anything from VANNS? They look to have one of the best prices right now and Samsung lists them as an authorized retailer.

1) Been playing RFOM and have noticed NO lag whatsoever on this set.

2) I also have a direct HDMI connection to the TV and an optical audio connection to my receiver.

3) See sammy's post.

EDIT: BTW, this TV was MADE for PS3!!! 71" TV + sitting 4ft away = gaming heaven.

Vanns has a good reputation. That's where I bought my A/V Receiver.

Ive ordered electronics from Vanns a couple times....good experience all around.

Ok thanks for the help looks like il try Vanns.

How does the Xbox 360 HD-DVD compare to the HD-A1? Does it also perform stellar upconversion of regular DVDs to look like they are HD? Is it as good a unit in general. I will be taking the leap in the near future I imagine.

I am leaning towards ordering the 7178 pretty soon so I am sure I will have some more tech questions, stand questions, etc. in the near future.

I have almost read this entire thread (Finally) and I really appreciate all of the contributors.

AVS rocks, I am ecstatic to join the community! Too much lurking is good for nobody!

Here is a newb question. What is SSE? I understand it has to do with artifacting and has been mentioned in the same breath as RBE, which I understand. I have heard more about SSE effecting users of the 7178 than RBE on this thread so I want to be knowledgable. TIA.

Remember that it's from Microsoft where there is no experience to speak off in video processing.


If it's just a drive add-on it can't be any better than the Xbox itself at image processing. Doing either SD or HD DVD image processing isn't exactly the same as generating game images.

I'm guessing that the add-on passes 480i for SD and 1080i for HD to the Xbox. Of course I don't know the details of either one.

I also guess that "passable" would be the best you can expect.

I don't think it's possible to make SD look like they are HD, but close enough for me is possible if the SD transfer is a good one.

My understanding is that Microsoft invented (or at least spearheaded) the VC-1 codec used for most HD-DVD content so that would seem to be quite a bit of experience in my mind.


Despite a few claims that the add-on does improve SD DVD image quality, I cannot detect a difference. Nevertheless, it is nice to spread the wear and tear over 2 drives (one for DVDs one for games) nor do I have to get off my duff to swap out my favorite game (Gears of War) to watch a movie.


I believe you are correct that the add-on drive itself does no processing of the image. As I use the VGA cable from my XBox 360 to my HL-S7178, ALL content, including SD DVDs, HD-DVDs and games are upconverted/de-interlaced/scaled to 1080p before being sent to my set.


As you stated, SD will never look as good as HD but the HD-DVD add-on definitely delivers more than "passable" images. As I noted in my post regarding my recent calibration by Eliab, the HD-DVD add-on meets and, in some ways, exceeds any HD-DVD or upconverting player on the market, not to mention at a fraction of the cost (assuming you already have or want an XBox 360 for gaming). HD-DVDs load fast and look amazing at 1080p, and according my many owners of Oppo and Toshiba units, SD DVDs are upconverted as good or better than those players, not to mention at 1080p if you use the VGA cable.

Just a few thoughts from a satisfied XBox HD-DVD add-on/Samsung HL-S combo owner.

Gizmo Joe

You are right about VC-1 codec. I forgot all about it. In fact isn't that what HD-DVD transfers are mostly using?

I doubt Microsoft developed it in house since they tend to buy much more than the develop from scratch.


Seeing is believing.

I'm not comfortable with the analog conversion needed for VGA input. Maybe it's a religious thing with me.

Thanks for the input guys. So it does upconvert to 1080p... that would make it comparable to the HD-XA1, right? I am basing this off of the A1 and XA1 posts in this thread where users were saying how it made their old DVDs look like they were in HD on the 7178.

Is the VGA cable the only one available? Can you hook up your optical cable to it still? The component cables say they support 1080p as well, is the VGA better and why?

Now the HD-DVDs are 1080p24 if I am not mistaken but the 7178 doesn't support this native mode. Is that a big deal?

Also can someone explain SSE to me?

Lastly how can I find out if OTA HD is available in my area? Can I just plug a coax straight to the tv and get an HD signal if I have it?

I am sure my ridiculous questions will continue and I thank you for the help now and going forward.

oh yeah Microsoft supposedly did develop the VC-1 codec which is the HD-DVD standard and what separates it from BD Roms which use MPEG2 or 4.

After further reading:


You're right. Somehow VC-1 slipped my mind. I don't know enough about this area to judge if that also means that Microsoft knows how to do outstanding digital to analog conversions along with de-interlacing and scaling.


That's a lot for a game box.


I'm not a gamer, but your glowing report makes me want to run out, and get one with the HD_DVD drive. Will the Xbox do "Pong"?

I've just added your calibration report to the list that is linked at the bottom of my post. Enjoy.

On the 360 as noted above...

Component hookup supports 1080p gaming which I believe is non existant.

VGA hookup suports HD-DVD movie AND gaming playback of up to 1080p (no mention of FPS and whether or not it is 24 which I believe HD-DVD movies are natively).

Pong could be an Xbox Arcade title in the future

An optical cable is for audio which VGA and component cables do not carry. HDMI is the only cable that carries both video and audio.


Probably not a major deal, but some TVs on their way to the market will accept 1080p@24fps and display it as a higher multiple of 24fps -- like 48fps, 72fps, or even 120fps instead of 60fps which requires 3-2 pull down.


SSE means that you are seeing the texture of the screen itself and not just the projected image. It's found to some extent on all DLP, LCoS(SXRD), and LCD RPTV sets and becomes visible when a bright image is being displayed.


There is a forum at AVS dedicated to local HDTV broadcasts.


Yes.

I've waited sooooo long! You have given me hope.

Thx again. On the VGA cable I simply meant if it has an Optical out on it (this is Xbox 360 specific). Gotcha on the HDMI being the only true source of digital&audio although I have heard so many reports of needing an additional audio hookup anyway.

So does the 7178 use 3:2 pulldown? How many FPS are displayed on this set and is here any discernable difference?

Actually, I thought the new, yet to be released HD-XA2 was the only Toshiba that will do 1080p, making the XBox is the only 1080p HD-DVD player currently on the market right now that I know of. Again regarding the upconversion cababilities, the XBox via VGA is as good or better than the A1 and XA1.


The VGA cable is the only way to get 1080p DVD playback currently, SD or HD. The component cables only do 1080p for games. Both cables have an optical out port on the cable where it plugs into the XBox.


No HD-DVD player that I know of currently outputs at 24 fps. The Xbox 360 outputs at 60 fps.

Gizmo Joe

... and you also need a display device that displays using a multiple of 24fps. Almost all current sets display using 60fps which is why they need to use 3-2 pull down to make the frames come out even.

so then the 7178 uses 3:2 pulldown to render the frames? Or possibly not if the output of the 360 is at 60fps and the 7178 displays at 60fps...? Is this on 1080p60 only or at any resolution? What differences are perceived between 60fps and a 24fps display? Anything a non trained eye would notice? You guys rock

I would love to hear what Eliab would say about Xbox 360 HD-DVD vs. HD-A2 vs. HD-XA2

Obviously I am leaning HD-DVD over BluRay all the way.

What does SSE stand for, is that Screen Door Effect?

Screen Door Effect is SDE.

Silk Screen Effect is SSE.

Yes if the input is not 60fps.


If the Xbox converts to 1080p@60fps then the TV doesn't need to do 3-2 pulldown.


It's needed on any source that originated on film which is always 24fps. Many TV shows are also done on film first. At some point 24fps has to be converted to 30fps. It can then be doubled to 60fps for display on current equipment.

All TV, like the evening news, is done with video cameras at 60fps.


When you watch a film source and 3-2 pulldown has failed to work right (that's a complex topic in itself), you will see little jerks or "judders" when the camera pans from one side to the other.

If the 3-2 pulldown is done perfectly you won't see anything. When 24fps is displayed at a refresh rate that is a multiple of 24 then there will not be any judder and 3-2 pulldown will not be needed.

Now if we can just get the wagon wheels to spin in the right direction.

As for HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray, keep your powder dry. The best may not win. Neither may win. "On Demand", with crappy bit rates may run right over them if they continue to struggle with each other.

There is a land far away where they hunt monkeys with a cocoanut. First they drill a hole in the cocoanut that's just big enough for the monkey to get it's hand in. Next they put something that the monkey likes to eat in the cocoanut.

Soon a monkey finds the treat, and the hunter aapproaches with a club. The monkey sees death walking toward him, but he wants that treat. His fist containing the treat is to big to get through the hole in the cocoanut.

The monkey can't bring himself to let go of the treat to escape. Bang! -- movies "On Demand" at crappy bit rates.

End of story.

Is 3:2 pulldown a process a television will perform automatically and only at times when it is necessary?

The monkey analogy is hysterical. I would think we were a long time away from On Demand encomapassing all movies at a click of a button. HBO can't even put the ROme episodes back up yet due to server space I imagine?

Wouldn't that always leave a door open for a Superpicture Hard Copy format such as BluRay, HD-DVD, or other future media?

Thx HT, did I mention you rock?

I am sure I'll be back tomorrow with more newb questions but most importantly stand advice/recommendations. We have to keep childproof and media storage (DVD HD-DVD and box sets - the heck with vhs and cds) in mind and are considering some fancy credenzas from Pottery Barn.

A HDTV will with varying degrees of success.


The VHS vs Beta war went on for years.


This is basically computer technology. Sometimes it leaps forward when there are billions at stake.


Not if they don't establish a market. Even if one or both of them establish a market "On Demand" has a lot of advantages. One being quicker gratification.


I didn't even give my VHS movies away, I chucked them. CDs have some life left in them but when critical mass hits, they will be gone too.