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need help from all you lumagen experts in setting up HDQ - Page 2  

post #31 of 287
Just spoke to funlvr on the phone. The HDCP message that pops up is a bug in the latest release. It pops up if the projector is powered on after the Lumagen---you can actually make the message go away by pressing the "exit" button. We'll have a new update on our website shortly to fix that.
post #32 of 287
That's good to hear. I am still contemplating getting the HDQ to use with my Ruby (plus XA1, JVC HM5 U, HD TIVO, and maybe sony BD player). Do the DVI-Is act just like HDMI ports? I really enjoyed Greg Rogers review in last months WSR! He stated that with the PJ and HDQ (using its inverse telecine with motion adaptive deinterlacing) it was the best picture he had ever seen in a home theater...
post #33 of 287
Thread Starter 
Patrick thanks for talking to me today, I was hoping to get home and try some of the things we talked about on the phone unfortunately I had a 17 hour day tomorrow hopefully tomorrow will allow me more time to play with the lumagen again thanks for the support
post #34 of 287
Quote:
Do the DVI-Is act just like HDMI ports?
Yes, the DVI-I ports on the HDQ are compatible with HDMI. Also, they can accept analog RGBHV as a source.
post #35 of 287
I just up dated my Toshiba HD DVD player with the 1.4 software and the green splash screen when running 444 color space is now the proper color. Before this update everything was green until the movie started.
post #36 of 287
That also is good to hear Alan! It's either the HDQ or the Optoma Gennum HD3000 for me. Atleast I am down to 2 now. :)
post #37 of 287
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger
I just up dated my Toshiba HD DVD player with the 1.4 software and the green splash screen when running 444 color space is now the proper color. Before this update everything was green until the movie started.

Alan whats the difference between 422 and 444 using the toshiba? im all updated on lumagen and toshiba and still cant use 444 consistantly without weird colored screen as you see in my photos, Ill try to get back early today and work with it some more
post #38 of 287
funlvr1965 -

Check PM box, or send email to me.
hlm3@att.net
post #39 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by funlvr1965
Alan whats the difference between 422 and 444 using the toshiba? im all updated on lumagen and toshiba and still cant use 444 consistantly without weird colored screen as you see in my photos, Ill try to get back early today and work with it some more

You should only be seeing the green screen of death when there is lack of content from the disc. My understanding is 444 is the higher color space and native to what is on the Disc. Using ether 422 or 444 you should notice less banding and posturization.

Maybe someone more technical then myself ( thats the magority of you out there ;) ) can confirm this??
post #40 of 287
Thread Starter 
Thanks Alan I just got home so I will head to the theater to do some testing
post #41 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat
You should be able to crop on the input side as necessary to solve this. This won't effect the output side. Have you confirmed 1:1 with the H-line and V-line patterns?
Thanks cpcat, last night I learned how to crop the input image by using the BTMR adjustment (adjusting the bottom right parameter) which corrected the problem. And Yes, I have confirmed the 1:1 pixel mapping, using the H-line and V-line patterns. Both patterns have uniform stripes throughout the screen with no blotching of any kind. :)

Paul
post #42 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat
Just to clarify, you should use YCbCr 422 over HDMI with the Toshiba A1. This is in the FAQ at Lumagen's website as far as the exact steps to take. You need the latest firmware upgrade from Lumagen as well.
This gets very confusing.

The first problem I had with the FAQ your referring too, was that it is under the heading "How do the EDID settings WorK?" not a laymens term like "Correct COLOR SPACE ADJUSTMENTS for different equipment like the A1".

It states: "Setting the Toshiba HD DVD player into 422 mode: set the EDID mode to USER and make sure 422 is enabled (ENABLED WHERE? in the Toshiba? In the Lumagen? How do you enable it so you know everything is set right?), set the DVI input type to 422 component (is this what they're referring too?).

After all this is answered, I would also like to know if this is the correct color space setting to use when using the DVI input of the Sony Ruby as well as the HDMI input?


Thank you, thank you, thank you, for any and all clarifications. :)

Paul
post #43 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul H
This gets very confusing.

The first problem I had with the FAQ your referring too, was that it is under the heading "How do the EDID settings WorK?" not a laymens term like "Correct COLOR SPACE ADJUSTMENTS for different equipment like the A1".

It states: "Setting the Toshiba HD DVD player into 422 mode: set the EDID mode to USER and make sure 422 is enabled (ENABLED WHERE? in the Toshiba? In the Lumagen? How do you enable it so you know everything is set right?), set the DVI input type to 422 component (is this what they're referring too?).

After all this is answered, I would also like to know if this is the correct color space setting to use when using the DVI input of the Sony Ruby as well as the HDMI input?


Thank you, thank you, thank you, for any and all clarifications. :)

Paul
I have the Lumagen HDQ and the Toshiba HD-A1.

I agree that it is a little convoluted, and the FAQ might be worded a little differently, but it is easy and makes sense (after the fact).

Here is what you need to do to get the correct colorspace out of the Toshiba HDDVD players: (assumes latest firmware is loaded on Lumagen)

You make two changes to the Lumagen settings – no changes are needed to the Toshiba.

For the input that the Toshiba is connected to, on the Lumagen:

1) set the EDID option to “USER†– when you do that, you then get a list of capabilities that can be advertised – make sure that 422 is enabled in that list.
2) Change the DVI/HDMI input type to 422

Power off the HDDVD – power it back on. You have to do this step for this to work.

You are done. Don’t be alarmed if you see the Toshiba menus turn green – I see this, but when you play a disk – it looks correct. I think the green menu thing is a Toshiba HDMI bug.

As to the difference between 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 – my understanding is that the data is stored on the disk as 4:2:0, and comes out of the decoder(s) as 4:2:2 for both SD-DVD and HD-DVD regardless of the codec being used (someone please correct me if I am wrong). As to any difference between 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 – I don’t know if it is a lossless transformation from 4:2:2 to 4:4:4 (just padding with zeros?), but is seems prudent to me to use 4:2:2 to avoid any potential format conversion issues.
post #44 of 287
4:2:2 avoids clipping BTB/WTW. With 4:4:4 and RGB, you get clipping. Simple as that.
post #45 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear5k
4:2:2 avoids clipping BTB/WTW. With 4:4:4 and RGB, you get clipping. Simple as that.
What about 333 component over hdmi. I truly do not know and was under the impression 444 was better then 422. Thanks for chiming in. This does get confusing.
post #46 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger
This does get confusing.
It is confusing, because you have:
4:4:4 RGB (has BTB/WTW clipping w/HD-A1 - but is that fixed on some Toshiba firmware versions and broken on others?)
4:4:4 YCbCr (does or does not have WTW/BTB clipping?)
4:2:2 YCbCr (confirmed not to have BTB/WTW clipping?)
All 3 of these can be used or not depending on what firmware you have on your Lumagen and how you have the EDID set.

Then you have multiple firmware versions for the HD-A1 and conflicting reports about what works and what doen't for each firmware version. We are lucky in a sense because we only have to figure out Toshiba to Lumagen interactions. Imagine the chaos out there where people have HD-A1 to (random display) interactions to deal with.
post #47 of 287
Thread Starter 
Alan I spoke with Patrick from Lumagen about the 422 vs 444 issue and he indicated that 422 is the normal way to go, if someone can say why 444 is better then I would like to hear it but until then 422 is what mine is set to, also 444 causes me to have more issues with that green screen even when the player starts the dvd so I went back to 422
post #48 of 287
4:4:4 means each pixel is being sampled for both lumination and chroma. 4:2:2 skips pixels.

So, is 4:4:4 better? If your source is sampled at 4:4:4, then yes.

if your source is 4:2:2 or 4:2:0, the player has to upsample to compensate for 4:4:4. Who does the upconversion better? I'd bet that the Lumagen will do it better...

Also, in situations where there's a bug and clipping works differently between 4:4:4 and 4:2:2, it might be better to use 4:2:2 even when your source is sampled 4:4:4, but it's a question of tradeoffs...
post #49 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by oferlaor
if your source is 4:2:2 or 4:2:0, the player has to upsample to compensate for 4:4:4. Who does the upconversion better? I'd bet that the Lumagen will do it better...

..
I don't think the Lumagen is upconverting anything in this situation, only sending the EDID message to set the colorspace and the player is sending it YCbCr 422. If you send RGB 444 EDID message it will send that but BTB and peak whites will be clipped.

The A1 isn't capable of YCbCr 444 (at least with the current firmware) and you can't just upconvert it through the Lumagen, that doesn't work.

Edit: I'm wrong. YCbCr 444 does work. I just tried it. Sorry Ofer should have know better than to try to one-up you.
post #50 of 287
Thread Starter 
Yes ycbcr 444 does work but I find that if its set to that setting the screen turns green and other weird colors when I start my system up with the toshiba, I then have to turn the toshiba off and then on again to get the normal colors back 422 doesnt give me as much problem in this aspect
post #51 of 287
Let me fill in the details: Both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are 8-bit 4:2:0 formats. The Broadcom chip in the HD-A1 and Sammy HD players clips BTB/WTW data for all formats with RGB and 4:4:4 component (4:4:4 RGB is somewhat redundant). The Sammy avoids the clipping by sending 4:2:2 out of the decoder. For the HD-A1 not to clip, you need to set the HDP/Q to request 4:2:2 in the "user" EDID function. Yes, you get green menus initially, but the movies are dynamite. The easiest movie to show the difference is Serenity with its space scenes and the blown out whites in the Miranda passages.

Later,
Bill
post #52 of 287
Thread Starter 
if input 1 which is my toshiba is active is switched to input 5 which is my hd cable box input then switched back again to the toshiba on input 1 what I will sometimes get is snow or a green screen then I have to turn of the toshiba and restart it, is anyone else having this problem? lumagen and toshiba are both updated and im running 422
post #53 of 287
Im waiting for 10:10:10 :)
post #54 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear5k
For the HD-A1 not to clip, you need to set the HDP/Q to request 4:2:2 in the "user" EDID function. Yes, you get green menus initially, but the movies are dynamite. The easiest movie to show the difference is Serenity with its space scenes and the blown out whites in the Miranda passages.

Later,
Bill
You are right, the 444 component clips. At first I thought maybe it did not as I thought I was seeing the drop shadow but there is a definite difference with 422. With 422, the drop shadow is easily visible, sharp, very dark and there are two distinct below black boxes at bottom left and upper right on the pattern. With 444 component, the drop shadow is indistinct and the bottom left/top right two boxes appear to meld together. With RGB, the drop shadow is barely visible and more of a grey color.
post #55 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by funlvr1965
if input 1 which is my toshiba is active is switched to input 5 which is my hd cable box input then switched back again to the toshiba on input 1 what I will sometimes get is snow or a green screen then I have to turn of the toshiba and restart it, is anyone else having this problem? lumagen and toshiba are both updated and im running 422
This is a result of the HD-A1's lack of implementing the "Hotplug" functionality (where it can sustain the HDCP link without it being truly active). Sorry, but this is a known bug with the HD-A1 that is probably not ever going away. I'd expect to see 480i over HDMI and TrueHD 5.1 before that one gets fixed.

Later,
Bill
post #56 of 287
Does anyone know how to get into the service menu on the HDQ?
post #57 of 287
Like joerod I have also narrowed down my search to Lumagen HDQ & Optoma HD3000. Jason is trying to find out the latest update on Optoma unit otherwise its Lumagen for me. Hope HDQ is not backordered again.
post #58 of 287
I know exactly what you mean. I spoke with Lumagen yesterday and it is not backordered (atleast according to them it shouldn't be). If the Optoma had 2 HDMI outs (video) then that would seal the deal for me but rumor has it the AV receiver HDMI out is really AUDIO only. And in Greg Rogers latest review of a Marantz 1080p pj at WSR he states the Gennum VXP processor (which has 9351) doesn't have processing to detect unusual cadence sequences that show up in some video material particulary animation or anime. He also says it did not lock onto a 3-2 AVIA motion detect pattern. He says he hopes they quickly fix the problem but I am more worried about how Optoma would handle firmware upgrades (timely manner) than anything else. Lumagen seems to be a trusted name in the scaler market that is very concerned about its customers. Just a quick thought...
post #59 of 287
At this point Lumagen HDQ seems like a more stable & mature unit compared to other processors out there.
post #60 of 287
I agree 100%. I plan to get my HDQ this week. Now I just need to get 5 DVI to HDMI adaptors...
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