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Sony 40" KDL-40V2500 and 46" KDL-46V2500 HDTV Thread - Page 2

post #31 of 5357
bluechunks: Thanks!
artVandelae: That's what I figure too. I'm guessing the reason the v2500's are the last that'll be available is Sony wants to clear out the xbr1's (and give the bb's and cc's a chance to clear them out).... they're still going for $3k on sonystyle... w/ the 1080p 40xbr2's going for $3.5k, something has to give... I'd expect deeper price cuts on the xbr1's to get rid of the stragglers before the v2500's ship sometime in Sept.
post #32 of 5357
I'm really looking forward to seeing the KDL-46V2500 in person! I've been looking at TVs since last July and I've finally made up my mind!

If this TV is even marginally better than the current KDL-46S2000, then I think it's a definite winner. I spent countless hours examining 42-46" LCDs and the 46S2000 was the best by far (PQ, contrast, viewing angles). And adding 1080p and another HDMI input just sweetens the deal!

My two cents: Knowing that one of the most important features of an LCD is a non-reflective screen, why would anyone want one with a large, reflective glass bezel? I'm so glad this TV has a dark, matte and thin bezel to "disappear" into the background.


On a totally unrelated side note, I must say that poring over this forum just about every day over the past year has made me incredibly knowledgeable about HDTV! Now 720p, 1080i, DVI, 3:2 pulldown, CCFL and anamorphic video all make sense! Thanks, everybody!

Several coworkers and friends have asked me for my help in choosing a new HDTV. Ironically, three coworkers have actually bought new HDTVs before me in the past year, then turned around asked me what the heck I was waiting for! (Even a baby only takes nine months!) Perhaps a small part of me does not want to actually pull the trigger on a purchase just because of the exciting anticipation! Well, the wait is almost over!
post #33 of 5357
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddipas View Post

Well, the wait is almost over!

Yeah. 2 more years until all the programming will be in HD, and who knows how many years until that will be real HD, not upscaled 480i. Good luck!
post #34 of 5357
Hopefully these sets come sooooooooooooon!
post #35 of 5357
Quote:
Originally Posted by bravomail View Post

Yeah. 2 more years until all the programming will be in HD, and who knows how many years until that will be real HD, not upscaled 480i. Good luck!

What do you mean by all, is it Cooking shows, religious programming that you want in HD?
All late night network shows plus pbs, hdnet, discovery, outdoorlife, multiple espn's, sports and music galore appear in glorious HD for me any many others! Most people don't watch TV 24 hours a day so there is more than enough HD present to enjoy on an outstanding set like the one this THREAD is ABOUT.
post #36 of 5357
Hey just an update, so I was in BB just talking to a semi-knowledgable guy, and he said they have the V2500 in the system but don't expect to see them soon. They are waiting for the S2000's to disappear, and I'm like this is a different TV (1080p etc) but he said he knows but thats just the plan. The final sale date on the S2000 is like March 07. I think its a load a crap but just what he told me.

On an unrelated note I was also talking to him about the 40XBR2 and they wont sell those till like September till the XBR1 is decommisioned, however the 46XBR2 was available, damn 49" wide POS =) kidding.
post #37 of 5357
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddipas View Post

My two cents: Knowing that one of the most important features of an LCD is a non-reflective screen, why would anyone want one with a large, reflective glass bezel? I'm so glad this TV has a dark, matte and thin bezel to "disappear" into the background.

I'm with you on this. Not that the xbr2/3's don't look good... wall mounted would be best I think so the floating glass has some effect. But I'm not into ostentatious. It's about the pq... the screen, not the bezel. If the xbr2/3's came with detacheable side speakers and floating glass that could be removed, (and interchangeable bezels that cost $95 and not $300) then that'd be different.

What I'm just hoping is that drc 2.5 isn't any big deal. And that sony doesn't hobble the v2500's some way. The xbr2/3's have 1080p over vga along with hdmi, so these v2500's better too!

As for the BB guy saying they wouldn't have the v2500's till 2007, then that'd be too bad for BB. If they drag their feet having new technology for sale, then they're just hurting themselves. I'll get online (after one of you does first of course ). Sony says Sept, and they've been ahead of schedule so far. I don't doubt they'll want these out for football season and christmas shopping, along w/ the ps3.
post #38 of 5357
Tapeworks Texas now has preorder pricing on the 40 and 46 kdlv2500. Assuming there's no fly in the ointment in terms of functionality beyond drc2.5 (which some people in the UK forum seem to be comparing it to another Samsung DNIE), I'm about ready to make my choice. The size and cost benefit of this set is very compelling to me, where otherwise I can't afford or fit the 46xbr2/3. The only other set that can possibly sway me now is the Syntax 742i if the Optix Realta shines and the glass screen doesn't. For a 4 inch hit on screen size over the 46v2500, it would have to kick holy ass to be a justifiable choice.
post #39 of 5357
Quote:
Originally Posted by rconn2 View Post


What I'm just hoping is that drc 2.5 isn't any big deal. And that sony doesn't hobble the v2500's some way. The xbr2/3's have 1080p over vga along with hdmi, so these v2500's better too!

I'm also hoping they keep the ability to do 1:1 pixel mapping with 1080i/p over the HDMI inputs like the XBR can. The absence of that would be a deal-breaker for me.
post #40 of 5357
Thread Starter 
I finally pulled the trigger and pre-ordered the 40V2500. I almost bought the 40XBR2 but I just couldn't accept the fact that the XBR2 weighs 22 pounds more than the V2500 or that it is 4.7 inches wider. At one point I was actually thinking of removing the glass from the XBR2 to compensate for the extra width and weight. Right then it hit me that I was contemplating extreme measures for no apparent reason. I'm taking a small gamble that the V2500 won't have 1:1 pixel mapping but in the unlikely event that it doesn't I can live with the VGA port for inputting a PC signal. No one seems too excited about DRC v2.5 either so I'm willing to forgo that feature in favor or the basic Bravia engine. Besides with the money I saved I might just go out buy a Toshiba HD-DVD player.
post #41 of 5357
Quote:
Originally Posted by LCD1080 View Post

I finally pulled the trigger and pre-ordered the 40V2500. I almost bought the 40XBR2 but I just couldn't accept the fact that the XBR2 weighs 22 pounds more than the V2500 or that it is 4.7 inches wider. At one point I was actually thinking of removing the glass from the XBR2 to compensate for the extra width and weight. Right then it hit me that I was contemplating extreme measures for no apparent reason. I'm taking a small gamble that the V2500 won't have 1:1 pixel mapping but in the unlikely event that it doesn't I can live with the VGA port for inputting a PC signal. No one seems too excited about DRC v2.5 either so I'm willing to forgo that feature in favor or the basic Bravia engine. Besides with the money I saved I might just go out buy a Toshiba HD-DVD player.

the weight and dimensions are not yet finalized for the v2500's and could change because sony doesn't list the right specs sometimes, they will be finalized when you get the manual.
post #42 of 5357
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUGEN View Post

the weight and dimensions are not yet finalized for the v2500's and could change because sony doesn't list the right specs sometimes, they will be finalized when you get the manual.

Yeah well suffice it say that the glass on the XBR2/3 is occupying a large chunk of space. What's more it's been described by an eyewitness who tried to move it as weighing a lot.

The Samsung 4095 weighs 54 pounds and Sony's current estimate for the 40V2500 is 55 pounds. That says to me that 40 inch LCDs without large pieces of glass weigh in somewhere around the mid 50s.
post #43 of 5357
Hey LCD what kind of shipping time frame did they give you? When does the supplier expect to see them?
post #44 of 5357
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyboyCAN View Post

Hey LCD what kind of shipping time frame did they give you? When does the supplier expect to see them?

One on-line retailer is giving a shipping date of "On or about August 15". My dealer is being conservative and still saying September but that may change.
post #45 of 5357
Like LCD1080 I have been considering buying the XBR2 and pulling off the glass because it is too wide for my hutch. The V2500 would be a much better solution, but I do not want to step down to inferior signal processing, especially the scaling circuitry.

We know that the XBR2 has DRC 2.5 and the V2500 does not. However, it seems to me that DRC is just some fancy Sony post-processing (like Samsung's DNIE) to reduce noise and artifacts. Indeed, according to the XBR2 manual it can be turned off.

I am more concerned with determining whether the XBR2 and V2500 use the same basic scaling circuitry for converting 480i/480p/720p/1080i to 1080p. It appears that the scaler circuitry in the XBR2 is contained within the "BRAVIA Engine Pro" whereas in the V2500 it is contained in the "BRAVIA Engine."

Looking at Sony's vague description of these two circuits, it appears that the only difference may be that the Pro Engine includes the DRC 2.5 while the basic Engine does not. For the XBR2, Sony's website says:

"BRAVIA Engine PRO Full Digital Video Processor Sony improved on the great benefits of the BRAVIA Engine by adding a picture quality enhancement circuit called Digital Reality Creation Multi-function v2.5."

This implies to me that the basic scaling circuitry is the same but the XBR's Pro Engine adds DRC 2.5, which is just the defeatable picture enhancement processing that I don't think I care much about.

Anyone have any other thoughts on this?
post #46 of 5357
Quote:
Originally Posted by pliesj View Post

Like LCD1080 I have been considering buying the XBR2 and pulling off the glass because it is too wide for my hutch. The V2500 would be a much better solution, but I do not want to step down to inferior signal processing, especially the scaling circuitry.

We know that the XBR2 has DRC 2.5 and the V2500 does not. However, it seems to me that DRC is just some fancy Sony post-processing (like Samsung's DNIE) to reduce noise and artifacts. Indeed, according to the XBR2 manual it can be turned off.

I am more concerned with determining whether the XBR2 and V2500 use the same basic scaling circuitry for converting 480i/480p/720p/1080i to 1080p. It appears that the scaler circuitry in the XBR2 is contained within the "BRAVIA Engine Pro" whereas in the V2500 it is contained in the "BRAVIA Engine."

Looking at Sony's vague description of these two circuits, it appears that the only difference may be that the Pro Engine includes the DRC 2.5 while the basic Engine does not. For the XBR2, Sony's website says:

"BRAVIA Engine PRO Full Digital Video Processor Sony improved on the great benefits of the BRAVIA Engine by adding a picture quality enhancement circuit called Digital Reality Creation Multi-function v2.5."

This implies to me that the basic scaling circuitry is the same but the XBR's Pro Engine adds DRC 2.5, which is just the defeatable picture enhancement processing that I don't think I care much about.

Anyone have any other thoughts on this?

That's my interpretation too...but I always try to remember that the sales information is usually written by technical writers, with the emphasis often more on "writer" than "technical"

:-)
post #47 of 5357
Quote:
Originally Posted by nollchr View Post

That's my interpretation too...but I always try to remember that the sales information is usually written by technical writers, with the emphasis often more on "writer" than "technical"

:-)

Agree - don't get hung up on specs.

the specs look a little better, design is the same--looks like I must wait till Oct and see the Sony and Sharp in person before making a decision as I don't believe spec write-ups.

Initially was going with the XBR3 but the extra glass and weight is really not needed, especially since DRC 2.5 doesn't seem to be that great.
post #48 of 5357
badself and lcd1080: The first two to order!! And thanks for the heads-up... I'll check out the pre-order site. So far, the early xbr2 owners haven't said anything to convince me drc 2.5 is a must have (though they've barely unpacked them of course).

Just thinking out loud... scaling and interlacing are obviously of huge importance... but I've become cynical of other types of processing such as sharpening, noise reduction, color balancing or whatever. I'm no graphics artist but whenever I've used settings on a pc (various software) to enhance an image I've ended up not liking the result.

You two are taking a chance that the v2500 specs won't have any gotcha's... but I find it hard to imagine there'll be any -- sonystyle does state clearly 1080p thru hdmi... has the same blurb as for the xbr2/3's... and mentions pc input... it'd be ludicrous for it to not also support 1080p.

The weight may not be definitive, but sonystyle highlights that the v2500's are all the quality without the bulk -- so they should be significantly lighter.

I've just about decided to get a 40v2500 (I'm only going to be 6 1/2 feet away). In my particular circumstances, it'll be in a smallish room and I expect to move. Wall mounting is out. And I've long thought that one day I'd get a nice light lcd to replace my heavy and bulky crt. I want to be able to easily move it around a room... and put in the car... not worry about toppling over. I really do want light.

I think I'm repeating myself... but I'm also thinking... a 40v2500 is less expensive, and if I want to move up to a larger lcd in the future w/ better technology, it'd still be a great 2nd set for a br or as a pc monitor or game monitor. So there's less sense of spending the farm and making a once in several years' commitment.

I have nothing against the xbr2/3's and not raining on their parade... it's a question of what's best for individual circumstances. I'm single and my gf doesn't even like coming over my place that much... so I don't really need floating glass that'd I'd probably break or chip anyway (let alone clean)! I'm liking the "all the quality without the bulk" v2500's more and more.
post #49 of 5357
No pre-order on sonystyle yet, but if things follow the same pattern, that other place lists it first, then sonstyle a week or two later... and people get a couple weeks after that or early Sept.

pliesj: good analysis -- makes sense.
post #50 of 5357
okay, I'm overposting... but I've been being nice... I'll be blunt... I don't know what anyone's thinking who wants shiny piano black with floating glass sticking out an inch beyond that! I saw one of the pictures and the reflections from the bezel and glass were ridiculous. Why not put some cool flashing led's around the bezel too! How about giving the screen a nice mirror like surface?! Did I mention I'm really liking the v2500's?
post #51 of 5357
Personally I think the XBR2's look really sweet in gray and dont have that much reflection. The XBR3's on the other hand don't suit my taste. I like the V2500's I just hope they show soon.
post #52 of 5357
so far noone is liking drc 2.5, I have yet to see pix of it on/off, I will have to head to a store CC or BB and hopefuly i can see this xbr2 in action. from what i can see, the price diff is around $ 500 from most retailers when compared to KDL46V2500.

a decent saving. if the SONY KDL46V2500 has 1:1 pixel map. over Hdmi, its a great buy.

is it confirmed that its the same screen and besides the glass and drc2.5 is it pretty much the same set.

when is the SONY KDL46V2500 going to out. i hear sept. from most dealers so far.
post #53 of 5357
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsandvb View Post

Without DRC, I take it analog SD will look like it does on the current S2000 models? How do those look? I wonder how scaling to 1080p vs 720p will affect the outcome?

It could actually worsen compression and artifacting. xbr2 owners are starting to disable drc2.5 in the same way samsung owners are disabling dnie on their 95's and 96's. The fact that drc2.5 can be individualized for each video source may be a plus.
post #54 of 5357
Quote:
Originally Posted by LCD1080 View Post

One on-line retailer is giving a shipping date of "On or about August 15". My dealer is being conservative and still saying September but that may change.

Which online retailer is quoting August 15 ship? Do you have a problem revealing the dealer from which you preordered your 40v2500? How does your preorder price compare to Tapeworks Texas, who by-the-way is knocking off an additional $100 if you preorder the v2500 this week?
post #55 of 5357
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by badself View Post

Which online retailer is quoting August 15 ship? Do you have a problem revealing the dealer from which you preordered your 40v2500? How does your preorder price compare to Tapeworks Texas, who by-the-way is knocking off an additional $100 if you preorder the v2500 this week?

The Home Theater Store has an expected ship date of "on or around August 15" for the V2500. I preordered from Tapeworks to enjoy the savings that you mention.
post #56 of 5357
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtVandelae View Post

I'm also hoping they keep the ability to do 1:1 pixel mapping with 1080i/p over the HDMI inputs like the XBR can. The absence of that would be a deal-breaker for me.

I've got all the normal concerns about the DRC, and have been encouraged by the initial reports on it . But I don't know what the 1:1 pixel mapping is. Can someone explain.

Also, is there some possibility of a third 1080p input, besides HDMI, on the v2500?
post #57 of 5357
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxted View Post

I've got all the normal concerns about the DRC, and have been encouraged by the initial reports on it . But I don't know what the 1:1 pixel mapping is. Can someone explain.

1:1 pixel mapping means that each pixel of the source's output is displayed on the LCD with no scaling taking place. A TV scales a small portion of its image along its top, bottom and sides to eliminate timing and other signal artifacts. This process is known as "overscanning". The result of overscanning is that 1.5% of the top and bottom of the image is eliminated along with 2.5% of the sides. So if a PC input is altered by overscan one will lose a significant portion of the Start bar and Start button along with other parts of the PC's image. 1:1 pixel mapping shows every pixel of the PC image with the spacing between individual pixels not being altered by the television's scaler.
post #58 of 5357
Thread Starter 
I just found a review site that says the 40V2500 has the Bravia Engine Pro:
http://www.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/sony...dl40v2500.html
The Bravia Engine Pro has DRC v2.5 whereas the basic "Bravia engine" does not.
This association between the V2500 and the Bravia Engine Pro could be an error but then again the Sonystyle site may be in error when it refers to the "Bravia engine" only for the V2500. It's something to keep an eye on.
post #59 of 5357
LCD1080: I'm sure those are sloppy editing errors. Nothing on the xbr2/3 thread impresses me about drc 2.5 so far. I'm more concerned about vga doing 1080p and having an audio l/r with one of the hdmi's (so can use a pc as an hd source). Fairly confident this will be the case, but manufacturers do crazy things sometimes.
post #60 of 5357
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rconn2 View Post

LCD1080: I'm sure those are sloppy editing errors. Nothing on the xbr2/3 thread impresses me about drc 2.5 so far. I'm more concerned about vga doing 1080p and having an audio l/r with one of the hdmi's (so can use a pc as an hd source). Fairly confident this will be the case, but manufacturers do crazy things sometimes.

I think it might be an editing error too but then again Sonystyle has at least one mis-print of its own when it says that the 46XBR2 weighs 77 pounds when in fact in weighs 90. So I suppose it may be possible that the "Pro" engine resides within the V2500. Hopefully if the V2500 does ship next week they'll put the manual on-line to clarify the situation. As for drc 2.5 I've only read one thing positive in the other thread -- saying that 480i material benefits from being "drc'ed".
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