Sony 40" KDL-40V2500 and 46" KDL-46V2500 HDTV Thread - Page 13

I just noticed there are S2010 models: http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...atpanel_32to40

They're priced the same as the S2000's and only seem to differ by being black -- they're 720p's. The manual ( http://www.docs.sony.com/release/fil...32_40S2010.pdf ) lists 23, 26, 32, 40 and 46" models due in September.

I think I prefer the silver.

Well if this goes on till October the new Sharps have to have everybody thinking as well.

I have a 40XBR2 and I'm looking to get something around the same size that better utilizes the space. A 45" Sharp of 46" V 2500 fits in nicely. The only problems I see is that the VGA with the 2500 and the complete lack of VGA on the Sharp. Also the question if the sharp does 1:1 which I think it would.

Just want to give you a heads up... several threads here say the v2500 line does 1:1 Pixel mapping.. it does not..

http://www.docs.sony.com/release/KDL46V2500.pdf

The official sony manual for the v2500 line lists the tv only for use through
analog 15pin din.. (manual states does not support pc over hdmi pg 14) and worse, does not even support native resolution in the rgb analog in,, (highest it goes is 1400x1050 on page 43)


I called sony sales-tech support yesturday to confirm this,, they said this is true and will not support 1:1 nor pc over Hdmi.. mentioning smething about not untill hdmi1.3..

This really has me bummed.. I was looking foward to buying this set but for a rather huge price increase over 720 sets (like the s series).. I would cringe on not being able to use it at native resolution... As you all know, LCD's not operating in native resolution look like crap when used as an htpc monitor.


ALSO.. I Currently i own the 46s2000 and after going through the official v2500 manual can tell you the v2500 has the EXACT same GUI interface and EXACT same funcitons as the s2000 bravia engine.. no more, no less..

oh i work there, that is the in stock date in system as of wednesday

I can live with 9/17. That's better than 10/1 or 10/15!

Is that for the 40" or 46"? Can you PM me with the BB price for the 40?

Hmmmm... Now I'm on the fence about upgrading to the XBR2. I keep asking myself is it worth it for the additional ~$550.

Maybe I should go revisit the Westy 47" thread!

I have to ask a really basic question... What exactly does this mean?

if you are referring to the disclaimer in the manual about not hooking an DVI/HDMI connection from a computer to a tv its really just to avoid opening another can of worms so to speak. So TV technical support people aren't answering question about computers. There is a similar disclaimer for a couple of other TVs, but you can get full HD resolution from the previously mentioned sources connected to other Sony TVS including the XBR2 from what i've heard

as long as full pixel mode is listed ( which it is on page 30 ) 1:1 will be there.

Kaizen28 it basicaly means that the TV will display every dot (1920 x1080 ) pixel for pixel. ie like on a computer display and not give an approximate resolution which would result in soft looking image.

On the xbr2 this is what you get. no official support for 1920 over hdmi.

at this point nothing is confirmed yet regarding pc over hdmi on the 46v2500 until someone has the set.

omesh as far as westinghouse, you know my take on that. it's possible you may get a good set and for the money its a good set. tons of input. just wish it had more contrast. ( mine fully failed on me after a few days. shipping damage or low quality ) check out the 42"s in stores where you can and compare see if you can live with it.

Other lcds would be JVC 46, samsung 95/96 line.

Okay..... so would this be a problem with:
1) A DVD player that upscales to 1080P via HDMI?
2) A DVD player (blu-ray) supporting a native 1080P stream?
3) A HD cable feed?

Thanks again!

I dont see why you would have a problem on 1-2. the set is a 1080p set. simple as that. It has the ability to resolve all 1920 pixels.

as for 3 ) cable feed It would also handle it. most cable companies either send out SD ( standard definition or 480i ) when changing to HD 720p for sports, fast action and some are in 1080i ie discovery chanl.

you will be fine.

The concerns you see voiced here are us...being picky hehehe cuz we also want to use this set 46v2500 that is as a PC monitor for HTPC or gaming, hence the fuzz over 1920 on vga/ hdmi

However as previously stated, the xbr2 line takes 1920 ( pc digital ) via hdmi. granted not officially supported, but it does it.

PS about number 1 that dvd player upscales to 1080p are you planning on using. I use an Oppo 971 ( 1080i ) great set btw.

mimtech: yes, that's what I got from reading the s2000 manual. And, it has the Bravia engine, the same as the V2500's. So... from a functional/processing standpoint, we should be looking at the S2000 series (and not the xbr2/3's).

The v2500's though do have the same 1080p panel and wide color whatever backlighting as the xbr2/3's -- so the basic screen capabilities will be the same. And that _capability_, as seen on the xbr2/3's, is a wow -- I've seen it myself. (OTOH, the s2000 doesn't have the same color backlighting as the XBR1.)

Basic panel capability (1080p, response, color, backlighting etc.): V2500 = XBR2/3.

Processing: V2500 is probably an upgrade of the Bravia engine in the S2000's (and may differ significantly from that in the XBR2/3's).

As lcd1080 and shinraven pointed out, we have every reason to believe the V2500's will do 1-1 full 1080p pixel mapping over hdmi. And, that'll it'll work just as it does w/ the XBR2/3's. The manual seems to confirm this -- though we won't know for sure until we know for sure.

So, in comparison to the XBR2/3's, at this point it looks like we're just missing 1080p vga and game mode and other setting tweaks relevant to the Bravia Pro engine. And my impression, from the xbr2/3 threads, is that not having the Briavia Pro engine and it's artifacting/macroblocking usleless processing may be a good thing!

1080p vga -- a dissapointment for sure, but since I found I can get dvi from my laptop, and dvi is the preferred connection, it's more of a nice to have, but not necc. needed thing.

Game mode: since you have an s2000, have you gamed with it? Is there a screen lag? The XBR1 has game mode; the S2000 doesn't. Why not? Because it's not needed since less intensive processing is occurring? This is what I'd like to find out now: how is gaming on the S2000.

Note... on the xbr2/3 thread, someone said they saw a bank of lcd's running off the same source... and the xbr2's screen was delayed compared to the other's (like a step behind). I'm thinking... no wonder a game mode is needed. And, if the v2500's are like the other lcd's that aren't a step behind, then no need for game mode in the first place.

Good post rconn! The lack of 1080p over VGA isn't a deal-breaker for me, if anything i can just get a hdmi switcher from monoprice and use that for HTPC (dvi-> hdmi). This is assuming I've maxed out the 2 HDMI inputs with my HD Cable box, dvd player, etc. What concerns me the most are 2 things:

1) Will the processing be adequate to keep up with 1080p technologies
2) Gaming - I can't stand video lag in gaming

With that being said, who want's to come through the S2000 forums for Gaming thoughts!

I've only played ps2 on my s2000, but i didn't notice any blurring or lag at all.

That statement is in every manual for every sony lcd I've come across. But, if
dvi->hdmi 1-1 1080p works then that's that. As long as dvi itself remains commonplace and/or later hdmi's continue to work, we'll be okay. Anyone have any concerns about this?

Looks like we have our answer!! Thanks Matro5! Tell us more about the s2000 (I know there's a thread)... how's sd, hd... motion blur/artifacting issues... the xbr2 is faulted as having poor 3-2 pulldown for film source... have you noticed any screen weirdness on scene changes? Sorry... whatever you know will be appreciated...

the only concern is you are giving up 1 or 2 available ports. for me its simple.

- hdmi port goes to pc,
- hdmi port 2 goes to oppo dvd player
- component 1 dish HD
- component 2 xbox 360
- my old xbox ( modded using as anime / watching for the wife ) ( where to plug this via component ??

granted i would love to connect it to another component input. but that leaves the receiver to plug it all in.

keep in mind that i have the 4695d in my crosshair as well. at this point i Know it does vga at 1920 and hdmi pc input you would underscan to 1808x1008 grrrrr. granted not bad looking. what a choice. analog vga at 1920 on samsung....or half ass digital on hdmi ( granted it looks good on the sammy ) * scratch that halfass part. it does look good. both body design and pq. ( sexy black curves...mmmmm ) hehe.

I've said this before..looking for a 1080p set is a nightmare. I never thought it would be this hard.

pic from sammy doing underscan.. not bad. i need to see this in person.

You're welcome.

SD is SD. My GF has no problems with it, but I'm drawn to HD almost exclusively.

HD was spectacular through Directv HD receiver. I had this TV through the World Cup, and had the 'this couldn't look any better feeling' the whole time. Football is a joke.

Then I 'upgraded' to the HD TVO 10-250. HD is less impressive now ( again the receiver's fault, clearly ) but im going back to the Directv HD DVR ( for free, thanks to some shrewd negotiating with Customer Retention ) as soon as the new one comes out. Should be any day now.

Upconverted DVDs looked great. No blurring of any kind. Black levels are fine. Could they be darker? I guess. But i don't have 6 plasmas lined up next to it. The nice thing is there is shadow detail, unlike the Samsung I auditioned previously which crushed blacks.

ps2 was hooked up through component cables. I've played a lot of FIFA on both this TV and a friend's old Sony plasma, and mine is much clearer. I don't play more than an hour or two a week, so I'm not the best resource, but I don't have any concerns about gaming on the v2500 after this experience.

i've hooked up my PC up to it once or twice through the VGA, but to be honest, I can't remember the resolution. I dont think this is applicable anyway, considering the difference in resolution.

what else? i like the look of the TV. it's simple and doesn't call attention to itself, even though mine from Costco is a fairly light silver.

lcd1080: I don't agree that the V2500's are successors to the XBR1 (even if the XBR1 had a "V" in its name elsewhere).

The functionality and manuals for the XBR1 and XBR2/3's are similar (drc, game mode, other tweaks); as are the functionality and manuals for the S2000 and V2500 (no drc, no game mode, similar tweaks, and both using the Bravia engine). I'd suggest the Wega was the precursor to the Bravia Pro.

In Euroland, they may release a V2500 -- but unlike ours, 720p! The model they'll have to compare to ours is called a W2000.

Not having the Bravia Pro may be a good thing (as you know from monitoring threads here). As for the XBR1 reportedly having better pq than the S2000, that's because it used better color backlighting. The V2500's have the same advanced color backlighting as the XBR2/3's, so the best pq capable of being displayed on an XBR2/3 should also be capable of being displayed on a V2500 (if unable to tweak some source on the tv itself, it could be tweaked on a pc -- so the term _capability_ would still apply).

Matro5: "I don't have any concerns about gaming on the v2500 after this experience."

That's greatly appreciated info! So game mode is likely irrelevant (not needed to bypass heavy and often less than useful processing in the first place).

And I agree with you about the clean look -- I can't stand piano black (both new Sharp's and Samsung's), and want clean and light weight.

The forthcoming Sharps only list 1080p over two hdmi's. The Samsung's are the other choice, but I'd rather a pristine 1-1 digital hdmi input (no overscan) above all else, including having a 1080p vga. The digital is more important than the analog.

I wouldn't necessairly say Digital is more important then analog. We may get to a point with copy write protection where an analog input capable of doing 1080p (VGA) is needed in order to bypass protection. If you care about that its something to think about.

Perhaps it's best to look at the v2500 as as the evolutionary result of both the xbr1 and s2000 lines, borrowing and improving on the assets of both. Clearly, it is more "related" to the s2000 in terms of packaging and functionalities, but with a cc-fl and hopefully productive advances in processing that go beyond the wega engine. In my opinion, the set will surpass both of its predecessors, but it may not satisfy the videophiles. Keep in mind that the xbr2 is now on ebay from semi-reputable (but unauthorized) source for 1/3 off list, if you choose to do the math. Right around now, I'm kind of wishing my search for a 34xbr960n (six months ago) would have been successful. To some degree (my opinion ONLY) none of these 1080p sets is a clear path to victory, as of today. There's a give and take with each one and they all suck at SD by their very nature.

I thank you so much. I have no intention of connecting this to a console or PC. Whew, crisis averted.

for those on the fence if this is based on 2000 or xbr1 at his point, it wont matter. cuz even the s2000 line had a great PQ. but as stated by badself this is not the case. this is a cross between the xbr2 and s2000 design wise.

eitherway, this will be a great set.

my thoughts exactly!

When i was first looking at HDTVs, some said there was absolutely 'no difference' between the s2000 and the XBR1, some said it was 'huge' - but i didnt hear anyone say 'man, the XXXXX blows the Sony's out of the water" and both my instore and in home audtions confirmed this.

I couldnt justify the $$ for the XBR considering i preferred the s2000 bezel. History repeats itself in this generation. I think the 2/3 will be dated rather quickly.

To me, a 1080p version of the s2000 would a GREAT TV. add the new backlight, more inputs, better remote, and i'll be shocked if the v2500 isnt sitting in my living room for the next few years.

Now some are reporting white dots around text with the hdmi input from a pc for the xbr2's:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...72#post8347272
At least one poster decided to use the vga (which does support 1080p for the xbr2/3) instead of hdmi to get rid of that problem.

We won't have that vga option of course (thanks sony for not going the extra inch!). So, hdmi had better work perfectly or, at least for those of use interested htpc use, there'd no longer be any point in considering this set. That's my line in the sand (it's the only reason I ever got interested in the first place). We'll have to wait and see. _Maybe_ it's that Bravia Pro doing more processing -- let's hope.

More information on the "white spots" problem with dvi->hdmi (see post 28080:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8349395

It seems colors are clipped, and it's a problem w/ other sets using hdmi as well. Not having 1080p VGA really is a fundamental short-coming. So now it doesn't look like there's any means of getting pristine 1080p to the V2500 from a PC. I'll be glad to stand corrected.