AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Rear Projection Units › Owners ONLY thread - >>>KDS-A2000's<<< - Settings/Tweaks
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Owners ONLY thread - >>>KDS-A2000's<<< - Settings/Tweaks - Page 56

post #1651 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhwells View Post

I am new to this forum but not to Sony. I just ordered the kds 55a2000. From what I see on this forum, I hope I haven't made a mistake. It seems that everyone has some problem that can't quite be fixed. I have been watching a 36xbr HD crt for about three years and on most 1080i programs, I often feel as if there is no TV between me and the scene. I think I may have been spoiled. Can anyone make me feel good about my purchase.?

IMHO, unhappy people are more likely to complain about whatever problem they're experiencing. I don't think the number of complaints posted here and the number of satisfied people who post here end up being a good representative sample of the population of SXRD owners.

That being said, there are no guarantees that you won't end up with one or more of the problems listed here. Just hang on to your receipt!

I'm pretty happy with my set.
post #1652 of 3237
Thanks for the info Bob. After looking at the pic.of your set I concluded that I am not crazy and this green tinge is a for real problem. As I mentioned before, this is my second A2000 and the first one did not have this particular problem. So it seems this is a random(build date??) problem. The question to myself is do I do ANOTHER exchange for same model and hope I get a good one or switch models alltogether??? I love the A2000 but no one needs this kind of bunk stress over a TV!!! I wont even start on the RCA 50HDLPW164 scenium that died on me after only 18 months of ownership(what the sony replaced). I just want an HD TV that does what it's supposed to do. For two grand I dont think thats expecting too much. I will be calling Sony tomorrow to inquire about this problem and see what they they tell me and then I will have to decide what to do next. Will let you know.
post #1653 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Fosse View Post

I feel your pain. I have the same problem and it is driving me nuts which in turn is also making my wife crazy too but she does agree that it is not normal and also wants another set. Unfortunately I am beyond the 30 day exchange policy of BB so I am trying to get my set replaced by Sony. Now I wish that we had our old Sony 34" XBR-2 HDTV back. Never any green issues with green on that set.

No ISF calibration does not work to get rid of it. See the link to my other post below. After hearing your story and others here I believe the Sony has a major QC issue with the A2000.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...or#post9230367

On your Green tinge photo:

Earlier I posted the following regarding the green tinge photo of your set:

"1. To my eye your color level appears to be set too high. Skin -no matter the color does not have that much color in it. I suggest turning the color down at least about 3-4 clicks is in order.

2. The color of skin overall is clearly to yellow/green,.. not just the darker shadows on the face-(beard). I suggest you look at turning your Hue at a minimum about 2-3 clicks away from green. These changes should reduce the effect, and improve overall picture quality (I assume you did not crank up the color for purposes of publishing your photo). "

Perhaps I may have missed something but what is your response to why the color level is so excessively high and the green is so fully dominant in your photo? It can not simply be the set because turning down the color will obviously result in an improvement in your photo.
Is your photo typical of how the set actually appears or is it just an artifact of how you posted the photo?

The point of this post is to try to help you by suggesting that you should turn down the color, and set the Hue control toward magenta to give yourself a fighting chance... I think you will have a chance to get out of your problem with your control set up modified.

KT
post #1654 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z71 View Post

I started off desperate to simply "turn down the red" on my new A2000. I had a GWIII that I applied many of umr's tweaks to a few years ago and have been very happy with that set.

It has turned into countless hours of reading every post in the A2000 threads, as well as most of the pearl and XBR threads. I do not notice any of the green faces or major uniformity issues, but maybe that just because my eyes (psychotically) dart around looking for anything that is red. I do think that I see see a very slight greenish yellow halo when looking at solid gray pattern (my wife says I am crazy), but as long as it does not get worse I can certainly live with it.

The short of it is that I am concerned that I will never be able to eliminate, or even reduce what I perceive to be horrible red push. I do not have the color decoder test from avia to give the percentage or the color ramps from getgray to see if red is clipping (I have DVE) but the reds are certainly blooming and oversaturated even with color set to the mid 30s.

To tame red push for the GWIIIs (from umr's legendary guide) he dropped AXIS from 2 to 0 (overall luminance??) then tweaked the RYB, RYR, GYB and GYR (R&G level and hue). The only similar info out there for our A2000's are early posts from Googer working on a coworkers A2000... he set grayscale, bumped gamma a bit and dropped RYR (Decoder red level in yellow vs magenta) a few ticks. Here are the big questions...


-What is everyone's take on the fact that RYB (Decoder Red Level) is set at 0 from the factory? This seems like THE button that I would like to push, but it is hard to lower 0.

-Is there equivalent in the A2000 SM to AXIS from the GWIII SM ? I know that in the Panel settings there is 29-HOST_M0, 85-AXIS but I don't think that this is the same.

-Any chance that swapping sets will help me? I am nearing my 30 day return period.

-Googer, any chance to check out your brothers set yet?

I would love for any of the professional and hobbiest gurus out to help me out with some specifics, but I completely understand why some can't. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Justin

Z71, any luck reducing the Red Push on your A2000? I have a similar issue.
post #1655 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaptorX View Post

IMHO, unhappy people are more likely to complain about whatever problem they're experiencing. I don't think the number of complaints posted here and the number of satisfied people who post here end up being a good representative sample of the population of SXRD owners.

That being said, there are no guarantees that you won't end up with one or more of the problems listed here. Just hang on to your receipt!

I'm pretty happy with my set.

This forum also has a very large sample of picky users, or those who are experienced enough to see things most other owners do not. Even if all SXRDs were imperfect in some way, my guess is that the number of owners who notice the imperfections, or have even bothered to calibrate the set in the first place, is extraordinarily small.
post #1656 of 3237
Have not contacted Sony yet but Mel Wisler out of Bellbrook Oh called me back and is coming saturday afternoon just to check and see if I have a real problem or not. He is certified calibrator and will be good to have his profesional eye check my set before I make my desicion on what to do next. Will be checking greyscale to start he said. Not full calibration, just to see if there is really something not right. Will keep you posted.
post #1657 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaptorX View Post

IMHO, unhappy people are more likely to complain about whatever problem they're experiencing. I don't think the number of complaints posted here and the number of satisfied people who post here end up being a good representative sample of the population of SXRD owners.

That being said, there are no guarantees that you won't end up with one or more of the problems listed here. Just hang on to your receipt!

I'm pretty happy with my set.

Also, I failed to mention that there is at least one Sony basher out there who's made some stupid posts in this thread (or maybe it was the big KDS-2000 thread) that may have more than one alias. In other words, I'd like to believe that everyone on this board is being honest, but there are no guarantees.

The quote from the ISF guy who's said that none of his clients have reported the issue may further back up the notion that this problem (green tinge/haze) is not as big as it seems. Of course, that's assuming he's being honest as well!
post #1658 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinglerch View Post

This forum also has a very large sample of picky users, or those who are experienced enough to see things most other owners do not. Even if all SXRDs were imperfect in some way, my guess is that the number of owners who notice the imperfections, or have even bothered to calibrate the set in the first place, is extraordinarily small.

Excellent point.
post #1659 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaptorX View Post

The quote from the ISF guy who's said that none of his clients have reported the issue may further back up the notion that this problem (green tinge/haze) is not as big as it seems. Of course, that's assuming he's being honest as well!

Please don't bash UMR. He's very knowledgable and a valuable contributor here. Early on in this thread someone pissed him off and he was missing for quite awhile. We don't want that to happen again.
post #1660 of 3237
Thanks, I'm feeling a little more secure. All of my Sony's have always been a pleasure to own, and I'm sure this one will be also.
Valpo Jim
post #1661 of 3237
I can't believe how glad I am to have found this "forum". Any suggestions for an ISF guy in northwest Indiana?
post #1662 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtvcev View Post

Z71, any luck reducing the Red Push on your A2000? I have a similar issue.

Nope, but at least I have some company...most eveyone here is seeing green. I have been too busy to experiment any further with the set since I last posted.

I am not positive, but I fear that these sets are already shipping with red already at a minimum in the SM deocder settings.

I am currently watching with the color in the low to mid 30s to save may sanity.

I think that the AXIS SM adjustment that was popular with the GWIII is a collection of "presets" for RYR, RYB, GYR and GYB...if this is true, finding the the equivalent of AXIS in the A2000 will not help as RYB is already set to zero. I am still hoping that I am wrong here and that someone will give me a clue (or at least tell me that I am wrong).
post #1663 of 3237
It's a sad day to realize that coming to a forum looking for fellow enthusiasts and trying to find help for problems turns into member bashing and distrust.
I think I've seen a new low here.
My thoughts of returning a set which I find unsatisfactory are heightened rather than try and work out the settings.
post #1664 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTTV Images View Post

On your Green tinge photo:

Earlier I posted the following regarding the green tinge photo of your set:

"1. To my eye your color level appears to be set too high. Skin -no matter the color does not have that much color in it. I suggest turning the color down at least about 3-4 clicks is in order.

2. The color of skin overall is clearly to yellow/green,.. not just the darker shadows on the face-(beard). I suggest you look at turning your Hue at a minimum about 2-3 clicks away from green. These changes should reduce the effect, and improve overall picture quality (I assume you did not crank up the color for purposes of publishing your photo). "

Perhaps I may have missed something but what is your response to why the color level is so excessively high and the green is so fully dominant in your photo? It can not simply be the set because turning down the color will obviously result in an improvement in your photo.
Is your photo typical of how the set actually appears or is it just an artifact of how you posted the photo?

The point of this post is to try to help you by suggesting that you should turn down the color, and set the Hue control toward magenta to give yourself a fighting chance... I think you will have a chance to get out of your problem with your control set up modified.

KT

KTTV Images,

Thanks for your helpful input.

To answer your questions:

1. I have toned down my color level down to 41 from the original setting of 50. This does indeed help. If I remember right I believe that the color level was at 45 when the picture was taken.

2. I have adjusted the hue a few clicks toward the red and while it does rid some but not all of the green, the balance of everything else is thrown off a somewhat. As you might recall my set was ISF calibrated so when the source is excellent the color is excellent post ISF calibration. No I did not crank up the color for the purposes of publishing my picture or alter it is any way. However I did pick the VERY worst example that I had or have seen with my set. Most programming isn't this bad but many are plagued by this green tinge to one degree or another which is distracting. Some programs like CBS "Without A Trace" are absolutely stunning post ISF calibration with only a little green noticeable in a few scenes. It is quite apparent that the quality of HD programming varies quite a bit and somehow my A2000 is decoding some of the shadows in faces as green rather than the normal shade of grey.

UMR suggested that I get a copy of the DVD of "Charlotte Gray" and look see whether I see any green tinge on that disk. While the green is much more subtle and not really distracting unless you look for it, it is still visible on many scenes. Both my ISF calibrator and I noticed it when I played various clips from Charlotte Gray for him. He believes that I have a decoding problem with my set. He did everything possible in the service entrance but could not find anything to adjust to rid the green. BTW, post calibration my set tracks grey scale very well (I saw this first hand when he showed me). When I turn the color down to zero I have a perfect B&W picture without a hint of green tinge.

My A2000 has been set to "Warm 2". Last night I changed it to "Neutral" as suggested by someone on this forum and it greatly improved the picture and seemed to help with the green tinge making it less distracting. I'll have to do more viewing but both my wife and I thought that it was significant!

No I don't think that tweaking will help. It can surely minimize the problem but then it will throw off what the calibration did. Both ISF calibrators that have been here to work on my set believe that my A2000 has a problem and should be exchanged.
post #1665 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

I am not aware of any of my clients complaining of this with their A2000's.

Would you care to share with us what settings to adjust in the SM to move the primaries/secondaries on this set?

Thanks
post #1666 of 3237
I dont think anyone is bashing anyone or Sony for that matter. Me personally, I just want what I paid for. This new technology can be a little tricky. After all my research I concluded Sony was the best for the money. I still feel that way. But when I sit down to watch my fine TV I should not have to look at a sporadic green tinge on the display. I am sure everyone here would agree. I am just trying to get it all figured out. I appreciate everyones comments and help here at avs forums.
post #1667 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaptorX View Post

I don't think the number of complaints posted here and the number of satisfied people who post here end up being a good representative sample of the population of SXRD owners.

You make a very valid point, so for the record, we purchased a KDS55A2000 in October, it has a September build date, and to date we are perfectly happy with it. Perhaps we're "easy" but everything looks great to us.
post #1668 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhwells View Post

I can't believe how glad I am to have found this "forum". Any suggestions for an ISF guy in northwest Indiana?

I sent you a PM.
post #1669 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioPatriot View Post

Thanks for the info Bob. After looking at the pic.of your set I concluded that I am not crazy and this green tinge is a for real problem. As I mentioned before, this is my second A2000 and the first one did not have this particular problem. So it seems this is a random(build date??) problem. The question to myself is do I do ANOTHER exchange for same model and hope I get a good one or switch models alltogether??? I love the A2000 but no one needs this kind of bunk stress over a TV!!! I wont even start on the RCA 50HDLPW164 scenium that died on me after only 18 months of ownership(what the sony replaced). I just want an HD TV that does what it's supposed to do. For two grand I dont think thats expecting too much. I will be calling Sony tomorrow to inquire about this problem and see what they they tell me and then I will have to decide what to do next. Will let you know.

Your most welcome OhioPatriot. Of course the picture that I posted is the absolute worst case scenario that I have seen and perhaps the processing of the digital image to the AVS Forum might have emphasized it a little but it can be mighty bad and is absolutely unacceptable to me.

Hearing that you have had two A2000s which both had problems sure adds credence to the probablity that Sony has a QC problem, at least with the A2000. Other than this problem, I love the PQ of my A2000 too but just trying to tweak to minimize the problem as some suggest here is not acceptable to me. The same TV shows that I watch with the A2000 that I previously watched with my Sony XBR-2 34" CRT HDTV never displayed this green tinge.

The repair shop which was one of the 3 local authorized repair dealers that Sony suggested for me to call under my warrantee, looked at my A2000 and said, "there is nothing that we can do about that. We will report this back to Sony and you will hear from us." At one point he even suggested that I might try another brand as he only repairs Sony and is not affiliated with them. I will be lucky to get my set exchanged with another A2000 and if I do will it have another problem like you.

No matter what you ultimately decide, please give Sony a call about this problem. The more A2000 owners that complain to Sony who have this problem the better. Perhaps it will open their eyes a little much like the "green blob" of the XBR-1 did.
post #1670 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioPatriot View Post

Have not contacted Sony yet but Mel Wisler out of Bellbrook Oh called me back and is coming saturday afternoon just to check and see if I have a real problem or not. He is certified calibrator and will be good to have his profesional eye check my set before I make my desicion on what to do next. Will be checking greyscale to start he said. Not full calibration, just to see if there is really something not right. Will keep you posted.

Thats great! Keep us posted.
post #1671 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Fosse View Post

KTTV Images,

Thanks for your helpful input.

To answer your questions:

1. I have toned down my color level down to 41 from the original setting of 50. This does indeed help. If I remember right I believe that the color level was at 45 when the picture was taken.

2. I have adjusted the hue a few clicks toward the red and while it does rid some but not all of the green, the balance of everything else is thrown off a somewhat. As you might recall my set was ISF calibrated so when the source is excellent the color is excellent post ISF calibration. No I did not crank up the color for the purposes of publishing my picture or alter it is any way. However I did pick the VERY worst example that I had or have seen with my set. Most programming isn't this bad but many are plagued by this green tinge to one degree or another which is distracting. Some programs like CBS "Without A Trace" are absolutely stunning post ISF calibration with only a little green noticeable in a few scenes. It is quite apparent that the quality of HD programming varies quite a bit and somehow my A2000 is decoding some of the shadows in faces as green rather than the normal shade of grey.

UMR suggested that I get a copy of the DVD of "Charlotte Gray" and look see whether I see any green tinge on that disk. While the green is much more subtle and not really distracting unless you look for it, it is still visible on many scenes. Both my ISF calibrator and I noticed it when I played various clips from Charlotte Gray for him. He believes that I have a decoding problem with my set. He did everything possible in the service entrance but could not find anything to adjust to rid the green. BTW, post calibration my set tracks grey scale very well (I saw this first hand when he showed me). When I turn the color down to zero I have a perfect B&W picture without a hint of green tinge.

My A2000 has been set to "Warm 2". Last night I changed it to "Neutral" as suggested by someone on this forum and it greatly improved the picture and seemed to help with the green tinge making it less distracting. I'll have to do more viewing but both my wife and I thought that it was significant!

No I don't think that tweaking will help. It can surely minimize the problem but then it will throw off what the calibration did. Both ISF calibrators that have been here to work on my set believe that my A2000 has a problem and should be exchanged.

Hey Bob,

I now have my color down to 39. Both the green gain and green bias are at -7
I set hue 4 away from green.
I tried neutral but I dont like it.
I am back to warm1
This minimizes most of the green. The problem with this setting is that a number of SD channels are now kinda washed out.I cant seem to find a happy medium.
I need to get some sense of closure on this or I'll be getting rid of it.
Has Sony gotten back to you on anything?
post #1672 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyv View Post

Please don't bash UMR. He's very knowledgable and a valuable contributor here. Early on in this thread someone pissed him off and he was missing for quite awhile. We don't want that to happen again.

Rather than try to explain myself, let me just apologize to UMR if I offended him. I do believe him and specifically included his comment to support my notion that I think this green tinge/haze problem is being overblown.

I think what I said was far from member bashing, however.
post #1673 of 3237
Oldslow it sounds like you are where I am at. I cannot even watch this TV now with my wife because she is so sick of ME and this TV! I am so glad that Mr. Wisler will be here tomorrow to maybe make some sense of the whole thing. Of course, the wife is hot about that being two days before Christmas! And Bob, I will be contacting sony after the visit by Mel. I am very interested in hearing his take on this issue. I am very happy for the owners of the A2000 who are enjoying their sets. Im holding out hope to be back among you soon. Merry Christmas to all!
post #1674 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSlow View Post

It's a sad day to realize that coming to a forum looking for fellow enthusiasts and trying to find help for problems turns into member bashing and distrust.
I think I've seen a new low here.
My thoughts of returning a set which I find unsatisfactory are heightened rather than try and work out the settings.

A new low? What was the old low? Did I surpass this guy's post?

"They are great at first then turn to a pile of crap! Most know about green blob problem, if not just read thru the forms. I had mine for eight months and the OB block went out, like thousands others. The tech put a new one in and it is bad also. My neighbor has the 50 inch and they are trying to replace it with a "REFURB" I also know that people are haveing the same issue with XBR2. So I am starting this thread to hit them when and where it hurts. If you are in the market for a TV don't buy SONY! Save yourself the headache, it is not worth it. Maybe if they start getting hit on the bottom line then they will buck up and fix all these TV or replace with one that WORKS. If you agree please post a reply. so others can see just how many there are. THANKS!"

Again folks, I meant no offense...can we please move on?
post #1675 of 3237
I'm just past 2 weeks with my 60A2000. So far no issues whatsoever. This is the 3rd HD capable set I've had in my home and the 4th rptv and is by far the best. No abnormal green tinges, no color splotches, not soft as early production models have been reported to be. My veiwing is almost exclusively HD from my HD DirecTivo and dvd, HD-DVD, BluRay with the occasional b/w movie from TCM.

The set is capable of faithfully reproducing color on film-based material as intended by the filmmakers and does not turn everything close to a fleshtone to a uniform pinkish beige.

I would not hesitate to recommend this set to anyone.
post #1676 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSlow View Post

Hey Bob,

I now have my color down to 39. Both the green gain and green bias are at -7
I set hue 4 away from green.
I tried neutral but I dont like it.
I am back to warm1
This minimizes most of the green. The problem with this setting is that a number of SD channels are now kinda washed out.I cant seem to find a happy medium.
I need to get some sense of closure on this or I'll be getting rid of it.
Has Sony gotten back to you on anything?

OldSlow,

No Sony has not gotten back to me yet with a solution as the local repair dealer who checked out my set hasn't gotten back to them yet. I know since I have bugged Sony twice this week about it. I also called the dealer twice but the guy that looked at my set is always out in the field repairing TVs has never returned my calls. Funny that no one in the store knows anything about what is being done about my set. That is really bad and has me a bit worried. This whole thing is so frustrating.

I have also turned down the color to 41. Any lower and everything looks a little washed out. 45 would be ideal but the green tinge is more distracting at that level. DVDs that I've played look better at a little higher color level and the green tinge more subtle or not visible at all on many of them.

With regards to neutral, my wife and I haven't watch enough to be sure about it. What I said about Neutral before was only an initial impression when we switched to it last night.

I've learned the hard way to never buy a TV and then go on vacation. When I got back by the time that the initial WOW factor of the big screen faded and I started seeing green my 30 day BB return/exchange policy had expired.

Good luck to you.
post #1677 of 3237
Hello to all,

I am by no means a video expert. Bought a 50a2000 recently and have a question.
I have an RCA DVD player hooked up to the set via HDMI. When I set the DVD player to 720P output the picture looks pretty clear except I can see very faint horizontal lines especially on peoples faces. Is this normal and what are these lines called? When I set the DVD player output to 1080I the picture is very clear and I don't see any lines. Is this normal for this set to have a better picture at 1080I than 720P? When I hook up the DVD player via component cables the output of the player automatically goes to 480P and the picture is noticably not as clear.

On a side note, I will soon be connecting an XBOX 360 to the set. Will I get a better picture if I hook it up via RGB cable instead of component cables? Thanks in advance for any input I can get.
post #1678 of 3237
I've also experienced green tinge, but I have an XBR2. Look at my post in the XBR2 settings/tweaks forum for more info.
post #1679 of 3237
Just want to thank Mr. Mel Wisler of DavLyn HTC out of Dayton Oh. for coming out and checking this out on short notice and a holiday weekend. He is thinking decoding problem. But he would like me to ask everyone here with the green tinge problem what your source is? I have TWC,SA3250HD STB connected DVI to HDMI at the TV. If everyone with this problem could list their source(cable,dish) and hookup it might be helpful in finding the true problem. He did see the tint also. He tested greyscale and its not showing up there. Any and all input would be appreciated. Thanks!
post #1680 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by N3W813 View Post

Would you care to share with us what settings to adjust in the SM to move the primaries/secondaries on this set?

Thanks

You must use a spectroradiometer to set them on every display. It is not a single magic set of numbers.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Rear Projection Units
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Rear Projection Units › Owners ONLY thread - >>>KDS-A2000's<<< - Settings/Tweaks