or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Rear Projection Units › Owners ONLY thread - >>>KDS-A2000's<<< - Settings/Tweaks
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Owners ONLY thread - >>>KDS-A2000's<<< - Settings/Tweaks - Page 65

post #1921 of 3250
i have a sept build and the lpf setting in the service menu was set to "6" from the factory. I checked 1080 input on the digital tuner and it was set to "5", should i change this to "6"?
post #1922 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBailey View Post

i have a sept build and the lpf setting in the service menu was set to "6" from the factory. I checked 1080 input on the digital tuner and it was set to "5", should i change this to "6"?


Yes. The correct lpf setting is 6 for the 1080 setting. While most of the displays built after July had the fix. Some have trickled out with the incorrect setting. One of the manufacturing plants probably didnt update programming data right away.
post #1923 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregereio View Post

Hi everyone,
Has anyone found out how to adjust the Primary colors in the service menu yet that they will share. Still waiting to figure out how to adjust GREEN and RED
Thanks
GE

We've been told repeatedly that you can't change the primary colors. You can adjust the secondaries. Search for UMR's posts with his before/after tristimulus charts and you'll see just how much it can be improved. But, other than people who make a living doing this (like UMR), I don't know that any others can tell you much about how to do this (and the ones who get paid to do it understandably aren't telling).
post #1924 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by TedEstes View Post

"24" in HD has terrible color/tint properties. While watching the season's 4 hours of premieres, I got all worried that my set was suffering from the same problem as yours -- some people look yellowish green and other look too pink. Also, I can't get the outdoor shots to look right -- sky and trees look washed out. Interestingly, commercials during "24" look fine. Also, content from other sources, such as DVD, are just fine.

Do not do any color tweeking based on 24 - the producers of this show intentionally have strange lighting effects.
post #1925 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzone7 View Post

Yes. The correct lpf setting is 6 for the 1080 setting. While most of the displays built after July had the fix. Some have trickled out with the incorrect setting. One of the manufacturing plants probably didnt update programming data right away.

Just so i get the straight, it was correct for the hdmi input (6), and was a 5 on the 1080i input on the digital tuner. So chaning it from 5 to 6 on the digital tuner would be recommended? I have noticed that the picture is not quite as sharp as the hdmi input. Thanks.
post #1926 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyv View Post

We've been told repeatedly that you can't change the primary colors. You can adjust the secondaries. Search for UMR's posts with his before/after tristimulus charts and you'll see just how much it can be improved. But, other than people who make a living doing this (like UMR), I don't know that any others can tell you much about how to do this (and the ones who get paid to do it understandably aren't telling).

But UMR has never been specific about the parameters that he adjusted.

One reason is that the correct settings on one set are not the same for the next one. In order to properly make the adjustment one needs accurate equipment (and not some Spyder device either). If he, or any other knowledgeable person, provides this information that will encourage people to muck around places in the service menu when they have no (or poor) means to know what they are doing. For me, it is not an issue of protecting income (I don't tour) but, rather an issue of saving people from themselves.
post #1927 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBailey View Post

Just so i get the straight, it was correct for the hdmi input (6), and was a 5 on the 1080i input on the digital tuner. So chaning it from 5 to 6 on the digital tuner would be recommended? I have noticed that the picture is not quite as sharp as the hdmi input. Thanks.

I could be wrong here, but I thought the LPF was set by resolution, not input. In other words, feed your TV a 1080 source and set the LPF to 6 and all sources that come in as 1080 would have the setting applied, whether they are DVD, cable box or digital tuner. Feed a 720P source and again make the change (or check the setting) and all sources that come in as 720P have that setting applied.

Are you sure you were viewing a 1080i channel on your digital tuner and a 1080i source on your HDMI when you checked it? Did you save your settings?
post #1928 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVBill View Post

No. My Xbox 360 (maybe this is the way everyones 360 is) has a noticabley brighter (read black level) output at 480i/p than it does at 720p and 1080i. This means, if I calibrate it for 1080i, then the 480p DVD output will be too bright. Right now I'm borrowing a friend's Oppo 970, and I expect to buy a different DVD player after I give him that one back.

Wow, I have the exact same issue with my 55a2000. HD-DVDs and games look great, but regular dvds on the 360 have seriously raised black levels. Friends I have spoken to with the 360 and other TVs do not appear to have the same issue. I suspect it may have something to do with the a2000's color settings getting "confused" somehow when the component signal switches from 1080i to 480p. A quick check of the picture menu shows all the settings are indeed the same VALUES when displaying either resolution, but wondering if interally something else is truly going on.

Tonight I'm going to try some tests....like turning the TV on with a regular DVD already playing in the 360. Maybe having the 480p singal active at powerup could reveal something new. FYI, regular dvds played via other dvd players using the same input seem fine.


If only the TV has proper VGA input this would not be an issue

-M
post #1929 of 3250
Hello there. I will try and shorten my question. I currently have a JVC 1080P LCOS 52". I am very pleased with it. However the 50A200 is what I "wanted" when I first set out on a tv buying JOURNEY. But this JVC fell in my lap at just $999 open box and budget is a big thing to wife. Now there is a 50A200 for $1500 open box that has me tempted and I am still w/in HH Greggs (horrible) 10 day return policy.
My question is does this tlevision have the typical Sony "reds"? By this I mean it is more of an orange-red and is strongly pushed? AS well as a "cool" shade of black where there is a heavy blue cast to blacks? I am quite happy with the JVC's color and blacks over all, except for a bit of a yellow/green cast to skin tones. Also liking that front component input of the Sony.
Oh and can the front panel buttons be set to be locked out? The JVC can, which is nice with a little one! Sorry I know this is not a tweak, but it seemed to fit here, I will move it if you'd like.
post #1930 of 3250
After several weeks of trying to overcome my 55A2000's "Green Haze/Green Skintone" issues using color calibrations, I think I finally came up with something that is pretty acceptable. Previous attempts using variations of settings posted here as well as calibration via DVE dvd always resulted in either skintones that were still green, or ones that were pushed too into the purple/magenta zone. What ended up working was using a few different movies recroded on a Dish HD DVR with fairly neutral lighting and color with lots of subtle fleshtones and facial closeups. The biggest help of all was the chickflick "The Wedding Date", mainly due to Debra Messing's different colors of lipstick throughout the film The calibration was done by comparing an already calibrated set in my Bedroom (Sony KDF-E42A10) which I feel has the BEST fleshtones and color of any set I've ever owned. Not sure exactly how "accurate" it is, but skintones have always just LOOKED RIGHT and very pleasing to me on that set.

After about and hour of back and forth as well as my wife sitting in the bedroom shouting out answers to my questions (would you say her lips are more magenta or orangey right now?) here is what I came up with...

Iris - Auto2
Picture - 85
Brightness - 50
Color - 38
Hue - 0
Temp - Neutral (this is VERY important)
Sharp - 50

Blk Corr - Low
Gamma Off
Clearwhite - Off
Live Color - Off

White Balance
R Gain = -3
G Gain = -5
B Gain = -5
R Bias = 0
G Bias = -3
B Bias = -5

Detail Enhance - Low
Edge Enchance - Off

What really opened the door for me was finally giving up on trying to use "WARM2" color temp. Initially it has always appeared to help the green issue, but was limiting what I could do with the white balcance and had me always chasing my tail between being too green or purple. The biggest surprise of all was what I ended up having to use on the BLUE Gain and Bias to get things looking right. Now, the set still doesn't look perfect, and I can sometimes see some greenish tint to certain skintones on some programming but overall it's much better.

One other thing I have since tried so far thinking helps is turning "LIVE COLOR" to HIGH and "CLEAR WHITE" to LOW. Something about the Live Color appears to negate some of the greenish cast on faces without any obvious detrement to the rest of the image. Going to keep those on for a few days and see how it fares.

I know every set is different and these exact settings probably won't be dead on for others, but at least it might help others suffering from the problem to get in the right ballpark. Let me know if anyone has luck with it!

-M
post #1931 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaptorX View Post

I could be wrong here, but I thought the LPF was set by resolution, not input. In other words, feed your TV a 1080 source and set the LPF to 6 and all sources that come in as 1080 would have the setting applied, whether they are DVD, cable box or digital tuner. Feed a 720P source and again make the change (or check the setting) and all sources that come in as 720P have that setting applied.

Are you sure you were viewing a 1080i channel on your digital tuner and a 1080i source on your HDMI when you checked it? Did you save your settings?


I am positive, i went into each one and checked and the 1080i input on the digital tuner was set to 5. I have not changed anything at all. I can barely notice a difference but was wondering if is wrong from the factory also. thanks for your help RaptorX.
post #1932 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBailey View Post

I am positive, i went into each one and checked and the 1080i input on the digital tuner was set to 5. I have not changed anything at all. I can barely notice a difference but was wondering if is wrong from the factory also. thanks for your help RaptorX.

Sorry for the newbie question, but what exactly is "LPF"? LowPass Filter?
post #1933 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderhole View Post

Sorry for the newbie question, but what exactly is "LPF"? LowPass Filter?

Yes. Most don't experience any change in picture quality with the setting of '6' instead of '5', but YMMV. Also, it's nice to just set it right and get it out of the way as a possible problem for any other issues you might have down the road.

A setting of 5, however, will prevent you from properly displaying a 1080 test pattern (like alternating black and white pixels).
post #1934 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBailey View Post

I am positive, i went into each one and checked and the 1080i input on the digital tuner was set to 5. I have not changed anything at all. I can barely notice a difference but was wondering if is wrong from the factory also. thanks for your help RaptorX.

See the FAQ (post #2). This is where I should have sent you in the first place, as it's been a while since I messed with the LPF settings.

According to what Googer says, it may be resolution dependent AND input dependent, but please read the FAQ to get the whole scoop and the warnings.

Sorry if I slightly misled you.
post #1935 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyv View Post

Assuming you didn't change the fan setting, the higher power mode should result in higher temps. AlanBuck's comments seem to indicate a correlation between temp and color uniformity/performance. Perhaps the whole color uniformity/green tinge issue could be resolved by slightly restricting the air flow?


I seemed to notice an improvement after moving my set. Now it is still about 5 inches from the wall, but there are thin curtains about an inch away from the vents.
post #1936 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderhole View Post

After several weeks of trying to overcome my 55A2000's "Green Haze/Green Skintone" issues using color calibrations, I think I finally came up with something that is pretty acceptable. ..... Let me know if anyone has luck with it!-M

Spydy- I tried your settings. They do a good job overall and the color is very close to what I'm getting (wih very different setings)- but yours do not seem to address the most annoying thing on this TV- the green fleshtone tinge that shows up under certain lighting conditions during filming. Here's what I'm using and I've eliminated the green tinge completely.

low lamp mode
pic 77
bright 60
color 41
hue R1
temp Warm 2
sharp min
NR and edge enhancement high
Black Corrector, Clear white, high*
gamma low
White Balance
RGain 0
GGain -7
BGain 0
RBias 0
GBias -5
BBias +5

The purists around here will tell you not to use * items, but I find clear white and black corrector to work as advertised to make picture better. Two ** items are probably a function of my set-up where I have an external video processor (iSync HD from Key Digital) which this TV really needs BTW IMO. Try my settings and let me know what you think.
post #1937 of 3250
Randomcreek. I'll give your settings a try tonight. BTW, what do yo have "Live Color" set to?

Thanks,
M

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomcreek View Post

Spydy- I tried your settings. They do a good job overall and the color is very close to what I'm getting (wih very different setings)- but yours do not seem to address the most annoying thing on this TV- the green fleshtone tinge that shows up under certain lighting conditions during filming. Here's what I'm using and I've eliminated the green tinge completely.

low lamp mode
pic 77
bright 60
color 41
hue R1
temp Warm 2
sharp min
NR and edge enhancement high
Black Corrector, Clear white, high*
gamma low
White Balance
RGain 0
GGain -7
BGain 0
RBias 0
GBias -5
BBias +5

The purists around here will tell you not to use * items, but I find clear white and black corrector to work as advertised to make picture better. Two ** items are probably a function of my set-up where I have an external video processor (iSync HD from Key Digital) which this TV really needs BTW IMO. Try my settings and let me know what you think.
post #1938 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

But UMR has never been specific about the parameters that he adjusted.

One reason is that the correct settings on one set are not the same for the next one. In order to properly make the adjustment one needs accurate equipment (and not some Spyder device either). If he, or any other knowledgeable person, provides this information that will encourage people to muck around places in the service menu when they have no (or poor) means to know what they are doing. For me, it is not an issue of protecting income (I don't tour) but, rather an issue of saving people from themselves.


I had my set done professionally by a Calibrator. UMR seemed to crack the code on how to adjust the GREEN and RED but my person did not. IF some one shares this that is not a road show It would help me get my set done correctly. everything is good except for the GREEN and RED and we could not figure out how to adjust them. I am just hoping someone can give some direction to help get this done since using UMR after I already paid to get it done doesn't make much sense when it is only the GReen and RED unless HE would give me a discount...Which I doubt LOL. Thanks GE
post #1939 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregereio View Post

I had my set done professionally by a Calibrator. UMR seemed to crack the code on how to adjust the GREEN and RED but my person did not. IF some one shares this that is not a road show It would help me get my set done correctly. everything is good except for the GREEN and RED and we could not figure out how to adjust them. I am just hoping someone can give some direction to help get this done since using UMR after I already paid to get it done doesn't make much sense when it is only the GReen and RED unless HE would give me a discount...Which I doubt LOL. Thanks GE

That may be because your person was looking for color management controls (there apparently aren't any). One approach to this is to "tweak" the color decoder controls so they appear to correct the primaries and secondaries.
post #1940 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

That may be because your person was looking for color management controls (there apparently aren't any). One approach to this is to "tweak" the color decoder controls so they appear to correct the primaries and secondaries.


Does "appear to correct" mean they are really not corrected?
post #1941 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregereio View Post

Does "appear to correct" mean they are really not corrected?

Yes.
post #1942 of 3250
I am waiting to request a service call from Sony to correct a green color tinge in the center of the screen that tends to almost go away when the set has been on for over an hour. When I see that Sony has cooked up a cure I will have it applied to my set. From what I read here it is still hit or miss with no technical theory to cover this issue.

Richard.
post #1943 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregereio View Post

Hi everyone,
Has anyone found out how to adjust the Primary colors in the service menu yet that they will share. Still waiting to figure out how to adjust GREEN and RED
Thanks
GE

The SM settings for the color decoder matrix are RYR, RYB, GYR, and GYB. The AXIS setting will change all 4...

The A2000 is difficult to set by eye because, like we've been saying, the primaries aren't to spec. This makes adjusting the decoder using color bar test patterns a useless endeavor.

I tried to adjust mine by eye, and as you see in my pre-calibration readings, I wasn't very successful--especially with green.

Therefore, the best way to calibrate the color decoder is to measure: Measure the secondaries, each of which are combinations of two of the primaries. The secondaries can be corrected by adjusting the mix of the two primaries of which they consist. This works, of course, because of the fact that we we're working in the tristimulus system of color. Once the secondaries are dialed in, the primaries should be close. Then measure the primaries. Like Jeff said earlier, the primaries CAN be adjusted somewhat by mixing colors. Iterate back and forth until you get a good gamut. Compromises will have to be made since Sony's color matrix isn't perfect.

I hope this helps. Either way, it cannot be done accurately without instruments.

Sean
post #1944 of 3250
Is there any way to turn off or isolate the primary colors? Adjusting the color decoder is a piece of cake if you can individually shut off the primary colors other than the one you are currently adjusting.

Of course this doesn't compensate for incorrect primary colors. But it can eliminate red-push, which seems to be a common theme on Sony TVs.
post #1945 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post

Is there any way to turn off or isolate the primary colors? Adjusting the color decoder is a piece of cake if you can individually shut off the primary colors other than the one you are currently adjusting.

Of course this doesn't compensate for incorrect primary colors. But it can eliminate red-push, which seems to be a common theme on Sony TVs.

I don't have the information here at work, but I believe it is in the panel settings menu. It was fairly straightforward to find...just look for three consecutive params that begin with G, R, and B.

You are right that it won't help for correcting the color matrix. For that you have to measure. A refernce pattern just won't work, it will be flawed since the primaries are off.

It actually won't be accurate as far as decreasing the red push either. Just dropping the red intensity is going to affect 2/3 of the colorspace. You can see this by noticing that adjusting the red intensity will affect the secondaries.

If you think you have red push, just drop the red intensity a couple of clicks. That's the dirty way to correct it.

Sean
post #1946 of 3250
[quote=Sean_S]The SM settings for the color decoder matrix are RYR, RYB, GYR, and GYB. The AXIS setting will change all 4...

The A2000 is difficult to set by eye because, like we've been saying, the primaries aren't to spec. This makes adjusting the decoder using color bar test patterns a useless endeavor.

I tried to adjust mine by eye, and as you see in my pre-calibration readings, I wasn't very successful--especially with green.

Therefore, the best way to calibrate the color decoder is to measure: Measure the secondaries, each of which are combinations of two of the primaries. The secondaries can be corrected by adjusting the mix of the two primaries of which they consist. This works, of course, because of the fact that we we're working in the tristimulus system of color. Once the secondaries are dialed in, the primaries should be close. Then measure the primaries. Like Jeff said earlier, the primaries CAN be adjusted somewhat by mixing colors. Iterate back and forth until you get a good gamut. Compromises will have to be made since Sony's color matrix isn't perfect.

I hope this helps. Either way, it cannot be done accurately without instruments.


Is there any way to attach my CIE chart and discuss the red and green....
post #1947 of 3250
OKay found how. Attached is my Graph. I am wondering what controls will move the Green and Red closer to the "norm" I will have it calibrated with correctly. Please let me know what menu and I can communicate this.

Thanks to everyone for all of your help you are all great!!!

GE





[quote=gregereio]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean_S View Post

The SM settings for the color decoder matrix are RYR, RYB, GYR, and GYB. The AXIS setting will change all 4...

The A2000 is difficult to set by eye because, like we've been saying, the primaries aren't to spec. This makes adjusting the decoder using color bar test patterns a useless endeavor.

I tried to adjust mine by eye, and as you see in my pre-calibration readings, I wasn't very successful--especially with green.

Therefore, the best way to calibrate the color decoder is to measure: Measure the secondaries, each of which are combinations of two of the primaries. The secondaries can be corrected by adjusting the mix of the two primaries of which they consist. This works, of course, because of the fact that we we're working in the tristimulus system of color. Once the secondaries are dialed in, the primaries should be close. Then measure the primaries. Like Jeff said earlier, the primaries CAN be adjusted somewhat by mixing colors. Iterate back and forth until you get a good gamut. Compromises will have to be made since Sony's color matrix isn't perfect.

I hope this helps. Either way, it cannot be done accurately without instruments.


Is there any way to attach my CIE chart and discuss the red and green....


LL
post #1948 of 3250
Here's a new one. I've had my KDS55A2000 for 2 weeks now and on some SD channels there is a line in the middle of the screen that comes and go's.It changes from red green blue??? what's up
post #1949 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbll View Post

Here's a new one. I've had my KDS55A2000 for 2 weeks now and on some SD channels there is a line in the middle of the screen that comes and go's.It changes from red green blue??? what's up

You need to start by trying to narrow down the source of the problem. It doesn't have to be the TV causing it.
post #1950 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderhole View Post

After several weeks of trying to overcome my 55A2000's "Green Haze/Green Skintone" issues using color calibrations, I think I finally came up with something that is pretty acceptable. Previous attempts using variations of settings posted here as well as calibration via DVE dvd always resulted in either skintones that were still green, or ones that were pushed too into the purple/magenta zone. What ended up working was using a few different movies recroded on a Dish HD DVR with fairly neutral lighting and color with lots of subtle fleshtones and facial closeups. The biggest help of all was the chickflick "The Wedding Date", mainly due to Debra Messing's different colors of lipstick throughout the film The calibration was done by comparing an already calibrated set in my Bedroom (Sony KDF-E42A10) which I feel has the BEST fleshtones and color of any set I've ever owned. Not sure exactly how "accurate" it is, but skintones have always just LOOKED RIGHT and very pleasing to me on that set.

After about and hour of back and forth as well as my wife sitting in the bedroom shouting out answers to my questions (would you say her lips are more magenta or orangey right now?) here is what I came up with...

Iris - Auto2
Picture - 85
Brightness - 50
Color - 38
Hue - 0
Temp - Neutral (this is VERY important)
Sharp - 50

Blk Corr - Low
Gamma Off
Clearwhite - Off
Live Color - Off

White Balance
R Gain = -3
G Gain = -5
B Gain = -5
R Bias = 0
G Bias = -3
B Bias = -5

Detail Enhance - Low
Edge Enchance - Off

What really opened the door for me was finally giving up on trying to use "WARM2" color temp. Initially it has always appeared to help the green issue, but was limiting what I could do with the white balcance and had me always chasing my tail between being too green or purple. The biggest surprise of all was what I ended up having to use on the BLUE Gain and Bias to get things looking right. Now, the set still doesn't look perfect, and I can sometimes see some greenish tint to certain skintones on some programming but overall it's much better.

One other thing I have since tried so far thinking helps is turning "LIVE COLOR" to HIGH and "CLEAR WHITE" to LOW. Something about the Live Color appears to negate some of the greenish cast on faces without any obvious detrement to the rest of the image. Going to keep those on for a few days and see how it fares.

I know every set is different and these exact settings probably won't be dead on for others, but at least it might help others suffering from the problem to get in the right ballpark. Let me know if anyone has luck with it!

-M

I have the same green issues that you have on my 55A2000. Despite recommendations here and on C-NET's settings I found the Warm 2 to make the green issue worse. I found Neutral to look better and negate the green somewhat. On my set the Warm 2 is like putting a green filter in front of the screen. I also found that turning the lamp setting from the power saving mode to the normal mode also helps and makes the picture look better. My color is also set at 45 which is higher than yours on my set things tend to look washed out colorwise with lower settings.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Rear Projection Units
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Rear Projection Units › Owners ONLY thread - >>>KDS-A2000's<<< - Settings/Tweaks