Owners ONLY thread - >>>KDS-A2000's<<< - Settings/Tweaks - Page 66

warm is 6500 or close to it. I find this to be perfect. I dont see any green problems.

I must admit i was someone that used to like cool! but i tried warm for a bit after a day or so ....you cant go back. I dont see how green would show at all on warm.

Though there is a certainly some variability from set to set, I've found that on Sony sets with Warm1 and Warm2 color temperature settings that Warm 1 was closest to 6500. Warm2 was usually too warm.

Interesting, I have seen other ISF calibrators post that Warm2 was closer to 6500 on the A2000.

I was speaking of Sony in general - not A2000s in particular. Usually I find 6500 to be between the two. The green tinge problem usually is worse with warmer settings - so I'd suggest (short of a professional calibration) going with Warm1 as opposed to Warm2.

That is certainly true with my A2000. On mine the green tinge it is worst with Warm 2. Neutral helps it somewhat. I've had my set ISF calibrated. Of the 2 ISF calibrators that have checked my set out, they believe that the green tinge to the darker areas of faces is an artifact caused by a decoding error with my particular A2000. Neither ISF calibrator could rid my set of this. The BB tech people that looked at it said that from their experience, they have found this issue to one degree or another on some A2000s while others don't have it at all. Unfortunately, we went on vacation shortly after purchasing the set so we didn't notice the problem until our BB 30 day return/exchange policy had expired. The moral of the story is to really pay attention to your new A2000 or any other model/brand for that matter within the return policy period for problems like this so that you do not have to live with something like this.

I know of no consumer set that has a "too warm" preset. Most don't approach 6500K but a few new digital sets are spot on with the warmest setting. The A2000 comes close at its Warm 2 setting. The green tinge is not related to the color temperature setting since, at least on my set, it is only an issue at the center 1/3 of the raster. In effect two color temperatures at the same time at different areas of the raster; gerrrrrrr. [OK, it fads as the set warms up].

Richard.

I'm just curious if anyone knows why, and may have also tested, the composite Input 1 shows noticeably less dot crawl than the s-video of the same Input 1? I have tried 2 different dvd players and 2 different sets of cables, and the results are the same. I am able to A/B the 2 inputs by physically disconnecting, then reconnecting the s-video cable. The tv switches to the composite input when s-video is pulled, but defaults back to the s-video input when both are present. So, ALL settings are identical, and noise reduction is switched off. I first discovered the s-video dot crawl issue when my son was watching one of his animated dvd's - not sure if that is significant or not. So, I pulled the s-video to double check the connection, and poof, jaggies gone. Then plugged it back it, and they were back - it was very unexpected. I can even detect what appears to be a slight delay in filtering of the composite input, in which there is a split second of severe dot crawl, particularly around text, but then it cleans up. I wonder if any of these filters are accessible in the service menu. I may try to perform the test in a retail store tomorrow with my son's dvd and their XXA2000 and dvd player. Any thoughts? I'm just curious about what's going on, and want to confirm nothing is wrong with the set.

New finder of the green haze/blob when my set warms up but it soon disappears.. should I be more worried now that I have seen it.... that it will turn into a permanent problem?

or are many users seeing this and just learn to live with it

S-video bypasses the built-in 3D comb filter. Composite does not.

It is normal. The owners manual even mentions it.

thank you very much for the reply!!

But why would S-video need comb filtering? If Y and C were never combined there shouldn't be any dot crawl to filter out...

Read the quote again:
- you both are correct.

I guess I should've asked: "so why the dot crawl on the OP's S-video?" If he's coming off DVD, Y/C should be separate to begin with.

I ordered the 50a2000 yesterday morning from Abe's of Maine. Does anyone have any picture setting recommendations for this model when hooked up to PS3 via HDMI?

Thanks

That's pretty much my question...why am I seeing dot crawl with s-video at all? When highlighting different dvd menu items, for example, the composite input reveals a brief moment of jaggies, far worse than anything I'm seeing on s-video, but then cleans itself up . This is not to say the s-video always reveals the dot crawl...many times when I see this brief period of dot crawl on composite, it may not show up on s-video, but, nonetheless, it does appear often enough to cause concern. Overall, it tends to show up moreso on animated material...is that significant? On a side note, I am also noticing dot crawl more on broadcast SD than before, but perhaps I'm looking for it now. I am going to a retail store now to see if they will allow me to conduct this "test" with their equipment. I will report back what I find. Thanks for all your help.

Perhaps your definition of "dot-crawl" is different than ours? What I wonder (this is just a thought) is what you are seeing is actually the fact that with NTSC there is really not much color detail. That could be showing up on a A2000 as some sort of artifact in a color fringe. Does changing DRC settings change the effect?

Indeed; I think we've come full circle on this. drmoss, when you first said jaggies, I took it to mean you saw jaggies on near-horizontal lines, which would be indicative of deinterlacing performance; when you said you sometimes see them for a brief instant before it clears up, I thought it could also be a deinterlacing artifact where the interlaced fields are briefly paired-up in the wrong order--this can cause "jaggies" to appear briefly on vertical lines. The composite video dot-crawl usually manifests itself quite obviously on vertical outlines of brightly-lit shapes such as alphabetic characters--the shapes may be stationary, but you'll see dots crawling up their vertical edges. Either way it sounds strange that there would be less of either with composite...I would think the "jaggies" (as defined above) would be the same (if that's what you're talking about) or there would be less (or no) dot-crawl with S-video...

[quote=Bob Fosse]That is certainly true with my A2000. On mine the green tinge it is worst with Warm 2. Neutral helps it somewhat. . . . .QUOTE]

I agree based on my experience with this TV that changing from Warm 2 to Warm 1 and ultimately to cool will gradually decrease the problem - and with cool setting ALMOST eliminate the green tinge and could be used as a quick fix, but then all the colors are way off what a serious videofile would want to watch for any extended period of time. The way I eliminated the green tinge was to use real - world movie and video segments that demonstrate the tinge problem as test material. These are rare BTW. One is a short 5 second segment sideline shot during an NFL game where african american coach skin tone looked green on my Dish HD Harddisk recorder and the other is an early scene in Mission Impossible III when Tom Cruise meets his MI colleague in a 7/11. After making all my basic settings using AVIA I played the segments over and over (and over) again trying every possible white balance combination possible until I found one that worked to eliminate the green tinge in the video/movie pieces and still keep a grey test screen looking uniform. Where I landed eliminates the green tinge and is quite good IMO for a non-pro enthusiast tweaking his own set. My own confidence in this is that I have now watched 1000's of hours of stuff over about 3 months since then and have no desire to change any settings. Of course I'm curious what a pro would come up with for settings, but for now I'm very happy with this TV (matched to a outboard iSync video processor)- that is until I can get a new set with 4K resolution, 10 billion colors and 144Hz refresh rate and equally capable source material.

I know there are some audio/videophiles on here that have posted their setting but has anyone found the perfect settings?

Nobody can post settings that are perfect for you and your TV except you. There are way too many variables.

Each set is a little different - no two are exactly alike -- so you can't rely on settings from others, except as a starting point.

Yes, the DRC reality/clarity settings do impact the appearance of artifact. The dot crawl I have been describing looks how wikipedia describes it and shows in their sample image - what I would call "animated checkerboard patterns" at color transitions . Unfortunately, I have been using the term "jaggies" incorrectly, so I apologize for that. I had been using it to mean the same thing as dot crawl, but have since realized the mistake. I was able to perform the A/B test in a local retail using their 50A2000 and Sony DVP-NC85H dvd player (same as mine). The results were identical to my set up at home. One of my animated dvds revealed the artifact immediatly with s-video, but was ok with composite. Another one of the 'tests' I tried you may be able to comfirm: At the very beginning of ep2 (and probably the other 5), a 20th Century Fox logo appears, then pulls back to reveal text to the right that reads "20th Century Fox Home Entertainment". When using an s-video cable, there is a small but noticeable amount of "animated checkerboard patterns" at areas around this logo and text. Switching to composite, however, it cleans up. This is not a great example because it is small, short in duration, and compared to the animated dvd test, might go undetected. Other dvd's I have show it here or there, near text or logos, moreso on animated material, whereas this lower budget dvd we have is like a torture test. The question is, of what?

I had been using the term "jaggies" incorrectly, thinking it meant the same thing as dot crawl. It is true the composite input shows an incredibley brief moment of dot crawl, for example, when highliting different text selections in a dvd menu, whereas the s-video input does not. Overall, most of my dvds appear cleaner with the s-video input, but there are those certain moments, like the 20th Century Fox logo mentioned in my last post, where composite looks like it is filtering something out that is revealed with s-video. Since dot crawl is literally defined as a "visual defect of color analog video standards when signals are transmitted as composite video", then it must not exist in s-video. Nonetheless, what I am seeing looks very similar and just want to understand it better.
Thanks for your help.

Mosquito noise? Check these examples:

http://www.videsignline.com/howto/sh...leID=180207350
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...er-3-2005.html

I don't get this on DVDs. I get it on overly compressed SD cable channels, usually around their logo, or in commercials that have text against a single color background.

Thank you for the links (they made me delete them before this post)...I knew my TV was fine because when I watch OTA digital channels (SWEET!) this TV looks awesome (like I remember when I saw it in the many stores I visited). I get exactly what you have descibed (and these articles speak of) when I watch my D*TV SD channels. I had read some posts about compression and didn't totally grasp what I was reading. Thanks again! I guess I'll be patient (for now) and enjoy my free HD channels till somebody has a better deal...

S-Video was introduced to eliminate dot crawl on the existing tube display sets of the time when good color/brightness filters were not installed in home sets. But the introduction of S-Video did not eliminate all necessary filtering steps. With the introduction of huge sharp displays you are likely seeing some artificts associated with less than perfect filtering, even though the S-Video interconnect has eliminated most of the artifacts that were quite visible on smaller displays. Component interconnects eliminate the need for this additional filtering and thus eliminates the associated artificts produced by less than perfect filtering.

Richard.

Just curious (maybe I missed something), but with a 1080P TV, why are you even bothering with Composite Video and S-Video? Why aren't you using component?

A valid question...and it is mostly out of curiosity that I am still posting on it, since I am satisfied from the tests I did using another A2000 there is nothing defective with mine, and the occurrance is rare. But, my wife sets up the kids movies on the PS2, which I do not fully understand (well, maybe I do), but since I do not own the component cables for it, it goes into s-video. So, a few days ago I first saw the dot crawl-like artifact on this cartoon dvd being played, confirmed the hook up, and started to investigate it. As far as I'm concerned now, it is not very important.

No, I don't think so...looks a lot more like dot crawl to me, but thanks for the links, I learned something new. I also see it occassionaly on SD cable channels, not too often, but it is always around text/logos with color transitions. This is not to say I don't also see mosquito noise, this is just different. Then again, SD cable channels are comb filtered for dot crawl, right, so perhaps some of it is beyond it's ability to filter out.