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Owners ONLY thread - >>>KDS-A2000's<<< - Settings/Tweaks - Page 67

post #1981 of 3250
This is what I am starting to conclude myself, that there are conditions in which the Y/C separation is insufficient to prevent it. However, what I am describing is noticeable enough, I think, to be visible even on an SD tube set. The following link provides a suggestion that could explain this:

http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/Article...sDotCrawl.html

This one particular cartoon dvd I have (my torture test) appears fairly low budget, so it may be inherent in the source, passing though s-video, but filtered out through composite. This link could also explain the artifact seen on the 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment logo at the very opening of ep2, as well as other various logos appearing on other dvd's I have seen. But, do they really pull these logos from composite masters? Anyway, I'm sure I'm not the only one growing bored with the topic. If I try anything in conclusion, it will be to see if the torture test passes with a component input, and perhaps A/B the composite/s-video into my old SD tube set.

Updated 1-31-07...
I have found that my "problem" source dvd's have displayed dot crawl not only on my SD tube set, but also on the A2000's component and HDMI inputs. Thus, it is inherent in the source. The A2000 comb filter is capable of filtering it regardless of where it originates, and the other inputs simply ignore it. I suppose the only thing I cannot explain at this point is the occasional dot crawl seen on SD cable, since it is comb filtered, but it is very rare and, therefore, not a concern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feirstein View Post

S-Video was introduced to eliminate dot crawl on the existing tube display sets of the time when good color/brightness filters were not installed in home sets. But the introduction of S-Video did not eliminate all necessary filtering steps. With the introduction of huge sharp displays you are likely seeing some artificts associated with less than perfect filtering, even though the S-Video interconnect has eliminated most of the artifacts that were quite visible on smaller displays. Component interconnects eliminate the need for this additional filtering and thus eliminates the associated artificts produced by less than perfect filtering.

Richard.
post #1982 of 3250
The only issue we found (me and the ISF Calibrator) is that in CUSTOM while its set to Detail Enhancement at 0 it looks soft, but at max it works well on test patterns and for sharp detailed images it really helps it look sharp and crisp.
post #1983 of 3250
Has anyone located and used the service menu items for shutting off individual primary colors? I know on some other Sony TV's that these menu items are labeled BON, GON, and RON and have selectable values of 1 for on, and 0 for off. However these selections are not functional on some Sony TVs. I prefer shutting the green and red off for setting color and hue rather than using a blue filter.
post #1984 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post

Has anyone located and used the service menu items for shutting off individual primary colors? I know on some other Sony TV's that these menu items are labeled BON, GON, and RON and have selectable values of 1 for on, and 0 for off. However these selections are not functional on some Sony TVs. I prefer shutting the green and red off for setting color and hue rather than using a blue filter.

BON, GON, and RON are not in the service menues - at least by those names.
Can you accomplish what you want using the built in test patterns?
If so, in the PANEL menu, Test Patterns sub-menu, item 0 and 2 (ITP_ENB and PAT_ENB) are on/off toggels which respectively let you set item 1 or 3 (ITP_RGB or PAT_RGB) to a value of 0 thru 7 (black, blue, green, cyan, red, magenta, yellow, white), so, values 3, 5, 6 (cyan, magenta, yellow) effectively shut off one of the colors (red, green, blue) while you use the various test patterns.
post #1985 of 3250
Just got it. Should I not change too much right away, as the tv needs a "burn in" period? I saw something about power saving settings. Should that be On at the beginning?

THANKS!
post #1986 of 3250
If you are an A2000 owner, with a PS3, could you please try to comment on this issue I'm having here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9647574

My A2000 keeps stating the message "Unsupported Audio Signal. Please check your device output." There are more details in the linked to post.
post #1987 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVBill View Post

If you are an A2000 owner, with a PS3, could you please try to comment on this issue I'm having here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9647574

My A2000 keeps stating the message "Unsupported Audio Signal. Please check your device output." There are more details in the linked to post.

I have the same setup and just for fun popped in Underworld Evolution and selected the music video and got the same onscreen message, which stayed on the screen for 5 seconds or so and went away. I have the HDMI audio output set to linear pcm, and can only conclude that the set will only accept 2 channel linear pcm because it has no provision for downsampling multichannel linear pcm bitstreams, while the player is probably outputting multichannel linear pcm from time to time triggering the onscreen message. I work at a Sears store and our demo XBR-2 flashes the same message from time to time from the hard drive dedicated demo loop.
post #1988 of 3250
Thank you for the response Steve. Your confirmation of this issue (as well as a few others) are helping to set my mind at ease that my PS3 isn't broken. It sounds like a PS3 software update might (hopefully) fix this in the future.

You would think Sony would have tested the PS3 more with their own TVs.
post #1989 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

I have the HDMI audio output set to linear pcm, and can only conclude that the set will only accept 2 channel linear pcm

On page 57 of the TV's manual, it confirms your theory.
post #1990 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaptorX View Post

I don't think you can 'disable' the overscan, but you can adjust it in the service menu. However, I found that some weird stuff happened to my 1080i test pattern while I was changing the vertical/horizontal overscan settings from 50 to zero. So, I decided that at least for now, I am going to leave them alone.

I read something about losing '1:1 pixel mapping' somewhere if you back off the overscan, but I'm not sure how accurate that is. Hopefully, Dave Hancock will chime in.

I would prefer less overscan, but not at the cost of PQ. Also note that (I think) 2.5% to 5% overscan is more or less standard and acceptable. I think I read a post from an ISF tech that said he does 5% as a standard.

Just got my 60A2000 and of couse wanted to play with the overscan. I found out that the DISPLAY AREA: normal, -1 and -2 each have their own overscan settings: 50,50 / 70,70 / 90,90 for 1080i ( 50/50, 72/72, 94/94 for 480i).

So I changed my DISPLAY AREA -1 overscan h,v to 20,13 and DISPLAY AREA -2 overscan to 0,0, so they don't zoom in, but zoom out!. You can also play with the VOVERSFT, i changed it to 201 for -1 to eliminate the top data lines in 480i

With 0,0 you can definitely see the distortion, but with 20,13 i can't really tell (Jay Leno's background windows still look excellent, and now the whole picture is there). So that gives me the option of removing overscan or go back to normal from the user menu.

But it also affects the zoom modes. I can now make the zoom/wide zoom work much better on SD material, since i have the option of zooming out and bringing in the horizontal sides. The PQ does not seem to be affected any different once you start zooming...
post #1991 of 3250
I have a few questions after using the Avia DVD, first I was curious as to what color filter I should be most concerned about matching with. I can get the blue color down but then the red & green don't match. Second, I was wondering what tests I should focus on the most other than the grayscale and color tests. I've went through the entire disc and it seems as if most of the tests don't pertain to me. But then again I'm not really sure what to look for when running these patterns. Thanks in advance!
post #1992 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwa999 View Post

Just got my 60A2000 and of couse wanted to play with the overscan. I found out that the DISPLAY AREA: normal, -1 and -2 each have their own overscan settings: 50,50 / 70,70 / 90,90 for 1080i ( 50/50, 72/72, 94/94 for 480i).

So I changed my DISPLAY AREA -1 overscan h,v to 20,13 and DISPLAY AREA -2 overscan to 0,0, so they don't zoom in, but zoom out!. You can also play with the VOVERSFT, i changed it to 201 for -1 to eliminate the top data lines in 480i

With 0,0 you can definitely see the distortion, but with 20,13 i can't really tell (Jay Leno's background windows still look excellent, and now the whole picture is there). So that gives me the option of removing overscan or go back to normal from the user menu.

But it also affects the zoom modes. I can now make the zoom/wide zoom work much better on SD material, since i have the option of zooming out and bringing in the horizontal sides. The PQ does not seem to be affected any different once you start zooming...

Hmmm...now you're making me want to screw with the settings again! The good news is that if you write everything down, there's very little risk of not being able to 'go back'.

I think I will try your settings and see what happens. A very interesting discovery, jwa999.
post #1993 of 3250
I used the following pattern found on Sony Blu-ray movies. It can be accessed at the menu with "7669 enter."


Sharpness:
In the custom display mode my TV has lightly colored halos beside vertical black bars when sharpness is at minimum. What I did was to ramp up the sharpness until they went away, usually stopping at 22. Then I set sharpness too high, so that I could see the white edge enhancement halos, and ramped down sharpness until they disappeared, stopping at about 26. For the custom display mode, I split the difference and use a sharpness of 24. In standard mode the procedure resulted in a sharpness of 10, and I left vivid at minimum because it shows edge enhancement halos.

Detail Enhancement:
I have been using the Detail Enhancement set at medium, because it seems to create a more sharply defined picture without introducing too many problems. Looking at the test pattern, this feature seems to shift some shades darker while throwing out intermediate shades. At the higher settings, the blockiness and other anomalies it causes show up more in the test pattern. The following pictures are from the lower left circular pattern, and might give a sense of what negative effects Detail Enhancement causes if you don't have access to this pattern.

KDS-50A2000, Custom mode, Sharpness 24, Advanced Features off


Detail Enhancement - Medium


Detail Enhancement - Maximum


Detail Enhancement - Maximum, Edge Enhancement High
(This further exaggerates the changes Detail Enhancement causes for comparison)
post #1994 of 3250
Could not find this addressed before, but last night while watching Flyboy on my XBox thru component it would flicker or black out over and over. I would get a black screen with no sound. It occured mainly in the scenes with clouds or blue skies. When I hit menu to see if I could change some setting it too would black out so it seems like the A200 60 inch I have. I tried it on different sets with my XBox and it did not happen.

Thanks for any help
post #1995 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwa999 View Post

Just got my 60A2000 and of couse wanted to play with the overscan. I found out that the DISPLAY AREA: normal, -1 and -2 each have their own overscan settings: 50,50 / 70,70 / 90,90 for 1080i ( 50/50, 72/72, 94/94 for 480i).

So I changed my DISPLAY AREA -1 overscan h,v to 20,13 and DISPLAY AREA -2 overscan to 0,0, so they don't zoom in, but zoom out!. You can also play with the VOVERSFT, i changed it to 201 for -1 to eliminate the top data lines in 480i

With 0,0 you can definitely see the distortion, but with 20,13 i can't really tell (Jay Leno's background windows still look excellent, and now the whole picture is there). So that gives me the option of removing overscan or go back to normal from the user menu.

But it also affects the zoom modes. I can now make the zoom/wide zoom work much better on SD material, since i have the option of zooming out and bringing in the horizontal sides. The PQ does not seem to be affected any different once you start zooming...

OK, I messed with my settings. I left -2 at 90,90, set -1 to 50,50 (new 'normal') and set normal to 20,13. I'll play with it some over the next few days.

I like to go with the -2 overscan sometimes when I'm watching a 2.35:1 or 2.40:1 DVD so I don't see as much black area, but I don't like to go full zoom. So, I figured I'd leave that one (-2) stock at 90,90.

But I have to ask, with defaults like (50,50), (70,70) and (90,90),...how did you come up with (20,13) as the minimum overscan setting?
post #1996 of 3250
The following are the settings from a professional ISF calibration on my TV done with Sencore equipment using a colorimeter. My own changes to the settings are in parenthesis.

USER MENU SETTINGS:
Picture Mode: Custom
Iris: Min
Picture: 70 (68)
Brightness: 59 (55)
Color: 53
Hue: 0
Sharpness: Min (24)
Advanced: All Off (Detail Enhancer - Med)
Power Saving: On

CHANGES IN SERVICE MENU:
PANEL - 2 WB
3 R_GAIN 149
4 G_GAIN 124
5 B_GAIN 60
6 R_BIAS 132
7 G_BIAS 128
8 B_BIAS 128


Looking around in 1080p I was unable to find any other changes that were made in the service menu. It is possible that other changes were made, because using the CNET settings isn't as horribly tinted as I remember it looking. Using Warm2 color temp instead of the calibrated color looks somewhat similar on my TV. There is a little different tint, but the major subjective difference is that colors are slightly subdued on Warm2 and the calibrated setting has a bit more pop. Considering the cost of calibration, I'd have to say that using Warm2 seems like it might be a decent option.
post #1997 of 3250
does anyone own a ps3 and know what are good settings to have it set to, I have my PS3 hooked up through HDMI?
post #1998 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

The following are the settings from a professional ISF calibration on my TV done with Sencore equipment using a colorimeter. My own changes to the settings are in parenthesis.

USER MENU SETTINGS:
Picture Mode: Custom
Iris: Min
Picture: 70 (68)
Brightness: 59 (55)
Color: 53
Hue: 0
Sharpness: Min (24)
Advanced: All Off (Detail Enhancer - Med)
Power Saving: On

CHANGES IN SERVICE MENU:
PANEL - 2 WB
3 R_GAIN 149
4 G_GAIN 124
5 B_GAIN 60
6 R_BIAS 132
7 G_BIAS 128
8 B_BIAS 128

You left out Color Temp - Is it Cool, Neutral, Warm 1, or Warm 2?
Seeing as how your Red Gain is jacked up and Blue cut so sharply, my guess is your color temp is set for Cool.
post #1999 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyv View Post

You left out Color Temp

I left it out on purpose, because it seems that the service menu white balance settings for the temp are what matter. It's actually calibrated on neutral, and it appears that he held green and adjusted red and blue. That's what the software was showing when I looked. I didn't go through all the resolutions, but in 1080p the white balance appears to be all that changed in the service menu. My TV is an October build and here are the white balance values.

Cool
3 R_GAIN 127
4 G_GAIN 129
5 B_GAIN 128
6 R_BIAS 128
7 G_BIAS 129
8 B_BIAS 128

Uncalibrated Neutral
3 R_GAIN 128
4 G_GAIN 124
5 B_GAIN 108
6 R_BIAS 128
7 G_BIAS 128
8 B_BIAS 128

Warm1
3 R_GAIN 128
4 G_GAIN 118
5 B_GAIN 93
6 R_BIAS 128
7 G_BIAS 128
8 B_BIAS 128

Warm2
3 R_GAIN 128
4 G_GAIN 111
5 B_GAIN 70
6 R_BIAS 128
7 G_BIAS 128
8 B_BIAS 128

Calibrated Neutral
3 R_GAIN 149
4 G_GAIN 124
5 B_GAIN 60
6 R_BIAS 132
7 G_BIAS 128
8 B_BIAS 128
post #2000 of 3250
Glad I went ahead and bought my KDS-50A2000 this week. I had HH Greg price match Amazon at $1,699.00 and now Amazon has raised their price to $1,850.00.
post #2001 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaptorX View Post

OK, I messed with my settings.

Speaking of "messed with my settings"...I have had an SXRD 50" since late Dec (August 2006 build date). My son saw me tweaking the settings and then later I found him doing more!!! . Specifically he was in the "Setup" then "Color Matrix" Custom. In this submenu it lists the following:

480i ITU601
480p ITU601
1080i ITU709
720P ITU709
1080P ITU709

I do not know if he altered the above. Can you check if these are the default..maybe they cant be even altered.

On a side note...

I like the HD PQ but am disappointed with SD PQ. It looks soft bordering on blurry . I know SD isnt HD but are there any specific settings/tweaks which you think help with SD PQ?
post #2002 of 3250
I've got to remind people that the service menu settings that are optimum for one sample of a set ARE NOT OPTIMUM for another identical sample of the same set!

I calibrated a Panny plasma yesterday where the owner had used CNet settings for white balance (this set has drives & cuts in the advanced user manual) - though the set was pretty good, the CNet settings made the color tracking WORSE than the default manufacturer's settings. I have no doubt that CNet found their settings better their sample - but that does not mean that they are better on the next one.
post #2003 of 3250
can somebody explain the lpf issue to me if possible?

does this apply to component inputs as well?
and is it worth looking at tweaking it on my set?
post #2004 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Rouge View Post

Speaking of "messed with my settings"...I have had an SXRD 50" since late Dec (August 2006 build date). My son saw me tweaking the settings and then later I found him doing more!!! . Specifically he was in the "Setup" then "Color Matrix" Custom. In this submenu it lists the following:

480i ITU601
480p ITU601
1080i ITU709
720P ITU709
1080P ITU709

I do not know if he altered the above. Can you check if these are the default..maybe they cant be even altered.

Those are correct. 601 is the old NTSC era color standards, 709 is the current HD standards.
post #2005 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaptorX View Post

OK, I messed with my settings. I left -2 at 90,90, set -1 to 50,50 (new 'normal') and set normal to 20,13. I'll play with it some over the next few days.

I like to go with the -2 overscan sometimes when I'm watching a 2.35:1 or 2.40:1 DVD so I don't see as much black area, but I don't like to go full zoom. So, I figured I'd leave that one (-2) stock at 90,90.

But I have to ask, with defaults like (50,50), (70,70) and (90,90),...how did you come up with (20,13) as the minimum overscan setting?

Well, i was trying to eliminate overscan on 1080i HD local channels.. at 0,0 i see the bottom lines are not active, just stored repeats from a previous zoom. As i increase the vertical, to about 10, the bottom lines are all active. But to eliminate a few top lines, i moved the Voversft a little bit and the process, had to increate the voverscan a little more.
I'll probably set the -2 display area to this minimal overscan and the -1 display area to something between the minimal and the standard 50,50, since some SD material needs a little extra overscan...

btw, I have a january 2007 build and at first I might noticed a little bit of the "green in the faces" problem, so i played with the white balance and the hue. But now that the TV has been here for a few days, i had to go back and reset those values. I don't see any of the green problems anymore..

I noticed some of my default system menu values are different from the original values in the spreadsheet i got from the forum, so it seems Sony might have recalibrated. Sofar the TV is performing excellent, there is just a little curving at the edge of the screen. I might be able to eliminate that with the trapeziod procedure when i get the courage
post #2006 of 3250
can anyone answer the question about the PS3, when I'm playing it seems to move a little slugish, andyone know what I can do to fix this?

If anyone has any settings for HDMi PS3, please let me know.
post #2007 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by footballforever View Post

can anyone answer the question about the PS3, when I'm playing it seems to move a little slugish, andyone know what I can do to fix this?

If anyone has any settings for HDMi PS3, please let me know.

This thread might be more helpful, and you might want to elaborate on what you mean by "sluggish." What game/movie were you playing, and what are you doing when you have this "sluggish" impression?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2&page=1&pp=30
post #2008 of 3250
Quick question...didnt see anything on this yet...

I have a 50A2000 and am very happy with it. I have my laptop hooked up with a DVI-HDMI cable. My graphics card is I believe an ATI X1400 Mobile and I have it outputting 720P (1280x720).

Everything looks great, however, every maybe 10 minutes or so, the screen will glitch. Kind of, flicker and then come right back. This is not application specific as it happens whether I am on the desktop, watching a movie, or playing a game.

Anyone else have this happen or have any ideas??

Thanks in advance.
post #2009 of 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwa999 View Post

Well, i was trying to eliminate overscan on 1080i HD local channels.. at 0,0 i see the bottom lines are not active, just stored repeats from a previous zoom. As i increase the vertical, to about 10, the bottom lines are all active. But to eliminate a few top lines, i moved the Voversft a little bit and the process, had to increate the voverscan a little more.
I'll probably set the -2 display area to this minimal overscan and the -1 display area to something between the minimal and the standard 50,50, since some SD material needs a little extra overscan...

btw, I have a january 2007 build and at first I might noticed a little bit of the "green in the faces" problem, so i played with the white balance and the hue. But now that the TV has been here for a few days, i had to go back and reset those values. I don't see any of the green problems anymore..

I noticed some of my default system menu values are different from the original values in the spreadsheet i got from the forum, so it seems Sony might have recalibrated. Sofar the TV is performing excellent, there is just a little curving at the edge of the screen. I might be able to eliminate that with the trapeziod procedure when i get the courage

OK I guess my question is, since the defaults are the same for vertical and horizontal, how did you come up with different values for horizontal and vertical (20,13 versus 50, 50 70, 70 and 90, 90)?

Why not 20, 20 or 13,13? Aren't you theoretically stretching the picture one way or another with unequal values?
post #2010 of 3250
So, was everyone disappointed with the Superbowl broadcast because it was in 1080i?

After all, we all know that 720p is better for sports, right?
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