The Ultimate shootout begins ... - Page 31  

Steve...I never said I have anything more than the ridiculous size of the big ported subs to result in my being 'not excited'.

I have taken issue with the claims that the alignment mimics a sealed sub exactly in the music bandwidth and that it doesn't need HP protection, among some other minor points that had begun to be peddled as fact. These claims were based solely on a relative few subjective opinions and Steve's interpretations of computer modeling.

I really have to ask you what the reference to my lack of fondness for Tom Vodhanel has to do with this thread?

You can do whatever floats your boat. Use whatever driver you want. As far as disputing claims I make, the driver is largely irrelevant.

So...I wonder what the point here really is? Are the 2 Steve's only participating in this thread to expose Craig's devious plot? Really guys, give us a break.

WTF? This is truly the height of your reach, equating the war on terror and the possibilty of WWIII with Craig building a pair of ported subwoofers. :eek:

Bosso

I personally do not feel that you are setting the DIY sub up for a fall, because I for whatever reason, have a tiny bit more faith in mankind.

I just agree with Ed, in these areas...

And here are some excerpts from one of your posts. The key parts of that post being:


If that isn't a clear and distinct bias towards sealed subs.... ;)

I've been on vacation for the past 8 days, before that a DREAM Nascar fan's weekend...

Ed Mullen, obnoxious? I can't believe it.

It's gonna be a loooong Sunday morning.

Mboy, I think you might've misunderstood my post. Never did I mean to imply Craig was setting up LLT for a failure. I have nothing against Craig and his methods (not that you do either). This shootout would've been more exciting if the final design favored diy projects already done with this driver, so we can finally compare this "LLT" to more proven/conventional designs. Why opt to use a driver that has already been used in other DIY projects to make a comparison, then deviate from what has already been done with this driver? Just a question.

Craig, I see that the final design hasn't been completely ironed out yet. I hope you come up with a design that people can get a lot of useful understanding and comparison from. Either way, these subs when finished will be rediculousy badass, and will definitely pump out lots of SPL, as far as everything else I guess this is subjective?. It will be interesting to read your criticism of the pair.

I thought he had decided on: "There will be two 24x24x50 inch cabinets". If these were the final plans wouldnt they be fairly close to what weve built?

This is why it is difficult to talk to you. You pull this "you might not know this, but..." bullsh!t and it gets old very quickly. You act like others need the lessons in communication when you have just as many problems as the next guy.

How can I leave out something that doesn't exist?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7655177

Either my brain has selectively ignored those statements in the post linked above, or you are thinking of another post. I am not not being dishonest, and in fact, if there is anything I absolutley hate to do...telling lies would be near/at the top. I might not know much about subwoofer theory/design, but I call BS when I see it.

Why wouldn't they be? You aren't getting them for free, right? You seemingly have such a close relationship with AV123/MLS, I can't imagine auditioning any of their products would ever be a problem.

Why would these ported subs perform any differently than the others have in your previous blind listening tests? As Ed said:

*sigh* If you're going to accuse me of being dishonest, at least have valid proof to back the accusation up.

All I know is that each driver is seeing ~400 liters?

Craig, those who have their panties in a bunch about this whole thing are not going to listen to reason. It doesn't matter that to them that your past evaluations involved blind testing. Their personal animosity toward you, and whatever you do, is the real bias involved, and their prejudice is transparent. No other term can apply to dismissing an evaluation of a subwoofer even before the subwoofer is built, before the evaluation is conducted, and, of course, before the results are known. They are only interested in discrediting your findings before the fact.

I find it fascinating that these same people, earlier in this thread, were singing the praises of one who, in a test of his own, declared what the results would be before he made the test, which contained no blind testing, and went so overboard with his biased comments that he even recanted and revised them. Makes one wonder if they even understand the meaning of the word bias. They most certainly are blind to their own.

Are you serious?

That, is a lie. I can't leave out something that does not exist. Is that clear? These statements:

are not found in the post we are discussing.

If I were to replace "bias" with "preference", would you still disagree? Still, had you not made such comments as those that I previously quoted, no one would have a reason to believe you are biased. Sadly, that isn't the case.

Because they are vented subs, and will almost certainly fall short in the areas that cause you to favor sealed subs. Why do you honestly think they will succeed will many (all?) vented subs have failed, in your blind listening tests.

Until I see something that proves otherwise, you are certainly biased towards/prefer sealed subs, and have made statements that back that up. How could these vented subs possible equal what your cherish in sealed subs, if by design, they fail in those very areas?

And just to be clear, I never thought you got anything for free, which is precisely why I didn't think you'd have a problem obtaining a BMF. Also, I have never stated that I think you will rig this test, nor do I believe so. I trust that whatever is built, it will be properly tested by you.

However, no one knows what the hell will be built, or if it will even be comparable in design to anything that has previously been built.

Yeah, I did mean it. The current threat to our country is being taken far too lightly, but politics don't belong in these forums, so I'll stop at that.

:rolleyes: Hold on, I just found a port blocker stuffed deep inside my sonosub - gotta dig it out. Ridiculous :)

Won't mimick a sealed sub exactly, but it will behave very similarly. And my previous statements have been incorrect, it won't behave similarly to a regular sealed sub in the musical range, it will behave more similarly to an IB in the musical range. As for the highpass, which you seem to be hung up on, if LLT owners can drive their subs to amp clipping levels and not bottom the driver, why would you even want to impose a highpass? So it can behave better in a 2m ground plane test? So you can run 5hz sine waves through it? In the end, it's the in room plaback of real material that matters most - there's no point in downgrading performance to do a little better in ground plane compression tests or to bulletproof the sub from idiots.

Umm, that wasn't equated in my question at all. I asked you a simple question that required a yes or no answer.

How about "intelligence"? If you're a football coach with a kicker who has a history of missing field goals at the end of games for the win, and you currently find yourself in a tied game with 5 seconds left at the 40, are you going to let him kick? One definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again expecting a different outcome. Craig has blundered many a test before, why should we expect something different this time, especially consdering the circumstances?

So instead of admitting you're wrong, you dodge the issue and criticize me? :rolleyes:

I can't ignore the statements you have made. I could pretend they don't exist, but then I would be lying to myself. Whether one considers statements made in your other posts or not, your preference for sealed subs is undeniable.

Again, IMO, the issue isn't whether or not you will knowingly/purposefully rig the DIY sub for failure...but with what design the sub(s) will be built, and how it will represent other similar DIY subs to the rest of the community.

Concerning your blind test with the SVS/FSR-18 from four years ago...you have stated "Speaking personally, and having had well in excess of 100 loudspeaker pairs and 100 subwoofers in our home, with literally 100's of blind tests being done..."

Excellent...and after all of those blind tests, you have concluded that you prefer sealed subs. Nothing is wrong with that though....so I don't know why you get so defensive about it.

Jumping Jesus on Pogostick! I followed this thread until about 4 WEEKS ago and lo' and behold it's still going strong with everyone still merrily hatcheting each other!

Too funny...and now back to the Outer Limits...

This has turned into a mess. I'm closing this...

EDIT: I think a few of you need to say your peace and move on. Others should learn to ignore those who seem to go on and on.

Try to get along guys...

Kyser